Atheism has no creed. It has no scripture.

[MineralMan]

It has no church. It has no dogma. It has no doctrine. It is not a movement. It is not a lifestyle. It has no leaders. It has no priests. It has no acolytes. It is not a belief system.

It is simply disbelief. It is individual. It is simply the descriptor for individuals who are unable to believe that deities and supernatural stuff are real.

It's not anything other than that. If you have met one atheist, you have met only one atheist. If you meet another, do not expect that one to share anything else with the first. Atheists do not agree on anything as a group, except that they don't believe deities exist. There is no common ground among atheists but that, and that is simply passive unbelief.

I am an atheist. I cannot believe that anything supernatural exists. I cannot. It is not a choice. It just is.

Atheism is simply a description of unbelief. That's it. Nothing more.

[Cartoonist]

1. Truth

Keep posting

[guillaumeb]

10. What is truth? eom

[trotsky]

2. Others are determined not to listen to us.

They will declare that atheism is a belief. It's a "belief" in "no-god."

I agree with your statements, but there are sadly far too many believers who refuse to listen to atheists, and instead define them to their liking.

[MineralMan]

4. Yes. Apparently, they are unable to hold their own beliefs

without requiring others to share them. That's a very, very weak position to be in.

Why would anyone care whether I follow a specific religion or any religion at all?

[rock]

5. "That's a very, very weak position to be in."

You confirm what I already knew. It's good to have confirmation. Thanks.

[trotsky]

6. Honestly I think it's pretty simple.

By forcing atheism to simply be another belief, then it puts atheism on par with theism. Both are equally "faith based." It neutralizes atheism's questions and helps them be more secure in their own beliefs. You'll often hear things like "No one can prove god exists or that he doesn't exist." There, TA DA, belief is justified.

If instead you accept that atheism is simply a rejection of theistic beliefs, theism becomes something you have to defend - and no one can.

[guillaumeb]

11. Perhaps more would listen if they were not met with condescension, and intolerance,

and other types of behavior that show how universal this type of behavior is.

[trotsky]

22. Condescension?

You mean like insisting on defining atheism despite what atheists are telling you?

You're right, that would help a lot if people would stop doing that.

[guillaumeb]

36. If that is what you call condescension I would suggest

that you look more closely at what is posted here. The name calling and rudeness and condescension seems to be generally confined to the non-theistic contingent.

[trotsky]

39. Uh huh.

[Lordquinton]

42. Yea, see this whole debate started last Tuesday

Forget the centuries of being murdered by the church for suggesting maybe they aren't correct.

[trotsky]

44. How rude and condescending!

We deserved it!

[Lordquinton]

48. It's not rude to burn someone alive

The Catholic Church isn't rude.

[smirkymonkey]

56. One of the best descriptions I have heard is "Atheism is a belief system like

not collecting stamps is a hobby."

[marylandblue]

57. I like that

[marylandblue]

3. It should also be pointed out, that

A belief or disbelief is not a "belief system." A belief system is a set of beliefs that form an integrated whole. But confusing a single belief or disbelief with a belief system is like confusing a mosquito with an ecosystem.

[Moostache]

7. I have been an atheist since 1985, nothing new has been proposed since then to change my mind...

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in that which offers inadequate or nonexistent evidence to compel belief.

I "believe" in gravity because of empirical experiences that I can describe to others and more importantly I can OBSERVE happening to others. If I step off of a step, I believe my foot will continue DOWN until it reaches a solid object that pushes against it with an equal and opposite reaction.

I know many theists, of all stripes, who counter this with "well, I HAVE PERSONAL relationship with Allah/Jesus/Buddha/Etc."; to which I can only say, "good for you, but unless I can replicate that myself; or witness it dispassionately as a 3rd party observer, then there is nothing compelling about your beliefs to color my own".

I reject outright any and all "scriptures" as unreliable copies of copies of copies of copies of fables, myths and legends rolled into digestible versions for mass consumption. Your "belief" in the validity or inerrancy of your chosen holy book carries less than no weight with me. In fact, ALL scriptures fail to move me because they ALL disagree with themselves internally and externally and do not pass the smell test to me that would compel "belief".

I believe the atomic number of Nitrogen is 7. I do not believe this because I have seen the electrons in their probability distributions around the nucleus of a Nitrogen atom nor because I have read it in a specific book. I believe it because it is congruous with the rest of what I have learned in Chemistry and Biochemistry and a career of experiment designed around such precepts....precepts that if incorrect or errant would have caused many failures and loss of money in my career.

I believe in evolution not because I have read it or "because I love my sin and reject god's authority over my life"...I believe it because I have seen it up close and personal with bacterial cell lines that propagate and change expression of specific proteins and enzymes which in turn alters their performance in designed applications. I know the truth because I have used the truth to design and execute many experiments and productions of my own.

There is simply no role for "god" in my beliefs. It is a concept that has run its course and is a vestigial appendage of the species.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. I find writings and speeches of

Robert Green Ingersol to be helpful as far as freethought.

[guillaumeb]

9. Many belief systems have/had no scripture.

Some belief systems are quite informal.

But to say that it is not a belief system sounds as if one is speaking for all atheists everywhere.

But no matter anyone's philosophy, if it serves them that should be enough.

[marylandblue]

12. No, I am speaking of a simple belief

And so is Mineral Man. Atheism may be part of someone's belief system, but it is not, by itself, a belief system. Just like non-belief in Bigfoot doesn't say anything about what else you might believe or not believe.

[guillaumeb]

13. Do you believe that there is/are no god/gods? eom

[marylandblue]

14. Probably no gods.

[guillaumeb]

16. An agnostic? I understand. eom

[MineralMan]

15. I do not believe there are any such entities.

As you have been informed many times, that expresses it correctly. I DO NOT BELIEVE...

[guillaumeb]

17. I truly do not see the distinction.

One is expressed s a negative, the other as a positive.

But in the end, in my opinion, whatever path leads one to lead a good life and respect others is a good path.

[MineralMan]

18. I know you do not.

And that is the problem, in a nutshell.

[edhopper]

28. see my reply #27

[MineralMan]

21. That is only one of my points.

[Igel]

19. My BIL called himself an atheist.

It was not that he did not believe there was a god or gods.

It was he believed there is no god. (And for there to be gods, there must first be at least one, so the plural's excluded.)

One allows for easy tolerance. There is no zeal in not believing, there is merely concordance with others who don't believe.

There is possibly zeal in the belief in no god, because that can be proselytized. "You believe in god, I believe there is none" is different from "You believe in god, I don't believe in any god."

It can be a small difference at times. At others, not so small. One's disbelief; the other is belief.

[MineralMan]

20. To believe is a verb of action.

To not believe requires no action. One is positive and requires an action. The other requires nothing at all.

That might be why people who believe there is no God are more invested in that belief and more likely to promote it.

I do not believe that deities exist, so I have nothing to promote or evangelize. I don't care, although I find religious belief interesting, since most people do claim to believe they exist.

[HAB911]

23. Some confuse disbelief

as having tenants and commonalities which it does not. Atheists have noting in common, and that's not a pun.

Atheists might have photography in common but no one claims they are photographers or any number of other things.

I call myself an atheist but in fact I am an agnostic because I know that I don't know, but in order to move on with my life I made a choice that has served me very well.

[MineralMan]

24. Yes. Some people seem to believe that if one atheist says something,

that is also the opinion of every other atheist. Then, at the same time, those same people insist that their fellow religionists don't speak for them.

[HAB911]

25. Yeah, I love the

"they're not real" X because I'm the real X blah blah blah

[Mariana]

33. See, that makes perfect sense.

"Maybe there's such things as gods, but I don't believe in them." That describes the point of view of an atheist. It's nothing to do with knowing or having faith, it's to do with disbelief in something for which there isn't evidence. If any real evidence were to come to light that this or that god exists, most atheists would change their minds. In the meantime, here we are.

[Girard442]

26. Aww, he's just saying all that 'cuz we won't let him in the clubhouse.

I kid. Have a great holiday, whatever you choose to celebrate.

[edhopper]

27. I don't use the word belief

I don't say "I don't believe in any god" I say i do not accept the existence of any god.
Belief is not involved.

[MineralMan]

29. That works, too.

[edhopper]

30. It avoids the whole

nonbelief = belief brouhaha

[MineralMan]

31. It does. However, I prefer to say that

I don't, and can't, believe that any deities or other supernatural phenomena exist. Note that I don't use the words "believe in." I don't "believe in" anything. I believe many things, but "believe in" nothing. It's a nonsense phrase.

[edhopper]

32. Which leaves guillaumeb to say

you believe there are no gods. And continues his semantics arguments.
I say belief is not involved.

I understand your stance, but I believe we can be clearer. {belief used in the proper sense.)

[Pope George Ringo II]

34. Of course, that assumes he actually respects atheists enough to pay any attention whatsoever

to what we actually say we do and don't stand for.

His whole "but it's a belief" strawman was never connected to reality or integrity in the first place.

[edhopper]

38. I get what you are saying

others apparently don't

[guillaumeb]

37. But you are making an unprovable statement no matter how you phrase it. eom

[edhopper]

40. I make no statement to prove

I make no claims. I only see the absence of any real evidence for the existence of a deity.
Therefore I don't accept that one exists.
Same as with bigfoot, ghosts, alien visitation etc...all unsubstantiated claims.
It is up to those making the claims to provide evidence, and of course extraordinary claims.....
I see a lot of counter evidence for any of the deities people say they believe in, but that is another discussion.

[guillaumeb]

43. This is the statement:

I say i do not accept the existence of any god.

It says something that cannot be proven.

[trotsky]

45. It says absolutely nothing of the sort.

It says "I don't believe you" to every god believer.

We don't have to prove unicorns don't exist before we can say "I don't accept their existence," do we?

So why should gods be any different?

[edhopper]

46. I can prove

I don't accept the existence of any deity.

next?

[guillaumeb]

49. That is a completely different statement.

But if you feel that it is equivalent, I understand.

[edhopper]

50. what statement

are you asking me to prove?

[guillaumeb]

51. I am saying that your first statement is unprovable.

It cannot be proven, so I am not asking for the impossible.

[edhopper]

52. which post

#?

[guillaumeb]

53. #27

Specifically,

I say i do not accept the existence of any god.

One can say it, and mean it, but the statement is unprovable.

[edhopper]

54. It was a statement

about my acceptance of any god.
I was differentiating it from a belief.
I don't have a belief, I just don't see any evidence for a god.
There is nothing to prove, except that I am honestly expressing my view.

There is also no need to prove a god does not exist (since that is what you are misrepresenting about my post)

The burden of proof is on those making the claim.

If you want to believe in a being for which no evidence is possible, that is your right.

[sammythecat]

58. So what?

So the statement is unprovable, does that mean you win or something? What is your point here? I really don't understand your argument. Are you looking for some sort of admission or surrender...or something?

I'm not trying to be a smartass here. I just don't get your point or its significance.

[Act_of_Reparation]

59. He seems to believe all opinions are equally valid.

That the inability of atheists to disprove the existence of god makes their position no more tenable than that of the theist. Of course, through implication this means we must also respect the opinions of big foot aficionados, reptilian alien conspiracists, and a guy who thinks Alpha Centauri is a sentient wheel of bioluminescent cheese.

[guillaumeb]

61. Unprovable beliefs is the concept.

And some here insist that atheism, being expressed as a negative, is not a belief.

[Lordquinton]

60. What?

That actually makes no sense. He says that he doesn't accept the existence of a god. That doesn't need proof (not that rejecting the proposition of the divine needs anything more than "Prove it" to back it up)

You want him to prove that he doesn't accept any gods? More Psych 101 sample questions?

[MineralMan]

47. Proof of such a negative statement is not required.

Nor is it possible. That is fundamental. Only trying to prove that something exists is necessary. We'll wait here.

[edhopper]

55. When one sees a god

as the default position, then asking for proof they don't exist makes sense in an illogical way.

[Pope George Ringo II]

35. The more I think about it, the more I think we need to find out if Carl Weathers is an atheist

If he was, we'd have a Creed.

[edhopper]

41. Or his son.