Hey, Mormons - leave dead Jews alone!

[trotsky]

http://religionnews.com/2017/12/25/mormons-baptizing-jews/

...I am referring to the news that the Mormons are once again baptizing dead Jews — effectively making them posthumous Mormons. That list of “new Mormons” comprises a veritable “who’s who” of contemporary Jewry. On the VIP list: the late Lubavitcher rebbe and his father; the grandparents of Carrie Fisher and Steven Spielberg; and the theologian Martin Buber.

..I realize that this practice is rooted in Mormon theology, but that doesn’t mean that we have to like it any better.

Frankly, it is contemptible. It demonstrates an ongoing disrespect for people of other faiths and ethnic groups. It teaches that the only way those people can achieve eternal life is to be (dead, unwitting, unwilling) members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

When it comes to Holocaust victims, it’s even worse — much worse. Because there is already an ongoing debate on how many Jews died in the Shoah. What happens when, in years to come, the numbers are diminished even further — because the Mormons now claim our dead as their own? What happens, a century from now, when some less than competent researcher comes to believe that Anne Frank was actually Mormon?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. How can one "convert" a dead person when consent is necessary?

I think Maimonides would agree with me.

[MineralMan]

2. Of all the things I am concerned about, Mormons baptizing the dead

is not one of them. It is a useless, vain exercise and worthy of no attention at all.

[trotsky]

3. Won't affect me, but the author makes a very good point about Jews and history. n/t

[MineralMan]

4. Yes, I do understand the offense taken.

It is an offense deliberately made by that religious group, too. They wish to insult Jews, and they do so. However, there is absolutely nothing actually happening. No change is really made by their stupid actions. No posthumous conversions occur.

Since there is nothing that can be done to stop this silliness, the best response is no response at all. It's yet another one of those things that is best simply shrugged off as idiocy perpetrated by hateful idiots. There's plenty of that to go around, I feel certain.

[Mariana]

8. To be fair, Mormons will postumously baptize people of all faiths.

They don't pick on Jews particularly. Like most religious people, they believe their religion is superior to all the others. I'm pretty sure Mormons believe the posthumously baptized are given the choice to be Mormon in the afterlife, the conversion is not automatic.

Most of father's known family tree have been posthumously baptized, because we're distantly related to a famous Mormon.

You're right, there's no way to stop them without trampling on the First Amendment. That is as it should be. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth just gives the LDS church free publicity.

[MineralMan]

9. As long as religions don't affect me or others in any material way,

they're welcome to do as they choose, pretty much. My father's parents were Mormons. He's on their list as a Mormon. For all I know, so am I. The Mormons are great list-makers of generations.

Their classification, however, has no effect on me, whatsoever, so I pay little attention to their list-making.

Where that religion creates real-world problems for people who are not Mormons, though, I do pay attention.

[NeoGreen]

5. Sung to the tune of...

...Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall

At least that is how I read it...

[lunasun]

15. Me too although I thought there should be an exclamation mark after Hey& Mormons

If it was attributed to the lyrics
Hey! Mormons! Leave dead Jews alone

[marble falls]

6. In that the concept of baptism for the dead has the element of free will strongly attached....

the departed has to make the choice to be baptized or not.

Its quirky but harmless stuff in the end. Its no big deal and would mean nothing if it weren't common knowledge. In our Lutheran services we pray for everyone including our Jewish brothers and sisters.

"Lamb of G*d who taketh away the sins of the world, hear our prayer."

[trotsky]

7. Well I think the "harmless" part goes out the window when it comes to historical records.

That's all we are eventually - something written down by someone else. The last paragraph in the excerpt I posted sums up the problem well, I thought.

[marble falls]

10. Respectfully, the Mormons probably do more good than bad by gathering up and tieing together....

genealogical records and placing them together and making them accessible to anyone at many different sources. I respectfully also submit that no one, but no one mistakes the Holocaust as a dark time in LDS history for Mormons or anything less than what it was: the specific attempt to remove the Jewish and Judaism from this world; and that no one, but no one confuses Ann Frank as anyone other than specifically a Jewish victim.

I have no standing to make any sort comment on how upsetting this knowledge regarding these baptisms are or should be to anyone past the knowledge of it being done except to suggest that the dead are beyond the effects of anyone else's ritual past being remembered.

If what I write is offensive I will respectfully remove it.

[trotsky]

11. "...no one, but no one confuses Ann Frank anyone other than a Jewish victim"

I think you're kind of missing the point. That may be true now, but what about in the future?

[marble falls]

13. The furture is out our hands once we become the past....

I am confident that her own testimony and the copious academic research and publishing on her and her historical foot print including the almost anal attention to detail the Nazis themselves put into document and history will over ride a baptismal tally book in a vault in Salt Lake City.

The LDS aren't happy with this baptism thing being so public, they don't publish it. Lists of names are passed along to the temple and only Mormons with temple recommends doing "temple work" perform these rituals. There are no public announcements like (in the case of my late grandfather) "Herbert Lee Hinton was baptized yesterday." And he's been and I am confident he's still a luke-warm Lutheran.

The way this information comes out is a zealous Mormon who either stands proxy or performs in the ritual for a 'famous person' brags about it and it gets out. The upside of this is that because the LDS believes they have a mission to baptize EVERYONE they rescue and restore genealogical records everywhere from every source.

I personally as a Lutheran think that is amazing. The LDS has a strong tie to Israel and Judaism and Jewish groups that have actually helped to restore records and histories lost in the Holocaust.

None of this of course diminishes the pain of the families of those lost in the Holocaust who of course have no need to be edified by this narrative. I am offering some background and some of the good effects of this controversial LDS practice.

Again, if I have offended I will delete these posts.

[Mariana]

12. They aren't changing historical records.

You might say they're making new ones, if you really stretch the definition of what qualifies as a historical record. The new ones have a baptism date that is after the death of the individual. If someone is stupid enough to read that and come to the conclusion that the deceased was a Mormon in life, well, so be it.

[marble falls]

14. Thank you for saying it simpler than I did.

[trotsky]

16. But it's a matter of what records survive.

Fake/bad info shouldn't be in the record at all.