Religion
Related: About this forumThe Scientists Who Look for Nothing to Understand Everything
The Z would be a sort of spiritual medium that communicates both with regular matter and dark matter, that mysterious stuff that accounts for all that extra mass scientists think they observe but cant explain other than through observations with telescopes.But hunting for a new particle (even the famous Higgs Boson) is a search for something by finding all of the nothing. It requires confirming all of the places it cant be, and understanding all the properties it doesnt have, so whats left is the discovery. Its like carving a sculpture from marble. You spend all your effort removing the nothing, and maybe youll end up with something. Or maybe not.
Anything that happens, even if we find nothing at all, will be a revolution.
And finding nothing where well-accepted theories predicted something is equally important. That could send theorists back to the drawing board, and require physicists to rethink their understanding of the Universe. In this new Wild West era of particle hunting, Anything that happens, even if we find nothing at all, will be a revolution, physicist James Beacham from the Ohio State University told me over a beer in the CERN cafeteria in Geneva, Switzerland.
https://gizmodo.com/the-scientists-who-look-for-nothing-to-understand-every-1796309514
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)of the universe.
mia
(8,361 posts)Seems like a beautiful idea to think about. Thank you!
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)not just the basis of the universe.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Pretty, poetic, neat, yeah. But not at all what's being talked about.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)And, I was responding to someone else.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You go right on making up what you think feels good.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)for a confrontation.
So, I have no idea what your opinion is regarding the OP. Would you like to address that?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)"...the question why is there something rather than nothing then becomes sort of trite because nothing is unstable. It will always produce something."
There are physical laws we can describe with mathematics that explain this. I'm sorry if that isn't poetic or happy enough, but slapping on existential meaning to things unnecessarily can lead to problems. Namely, the idea that this is a "confrontation." It's me expressing my opinion. Are you OK with that?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And it is quite apparent to most.
But, to your earlier argument, there was this, from the actual areticle:
Another way of describing the Creator, but I understand that you apparently cannot admit this point.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Sheesh.
I understand metaphorical language. Literal minds (like yours?) struggle with it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Imagine that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I'm sorry this is difficult for you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)The burden is on you.
Do the Christian thing, g. Show everyone what a good Christian is supposed to look like.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Some feel that a spiritual medium does not exist, preferring blind chance and random circumstance.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You just can't help yourself.
You keep showing everyone what a Christian is supposed to look like, g. You're doing such a good job.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Do you actually think you understand the inner motivations of those you talk to, or are you just bullshitting because you got nothing else?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)The author of the article typed that. It's not a quote of the Scientist in question. There is insufficient data in the article/interview to see if he actually said that.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)a spiritualist sitting around stirring a bowl of cosmic stew.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I read the term differently.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)nothing is unstable?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)The former. "Nothing" is unstable. Virtual particles pop in and out of existence all the time in the nothingness of space.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)Nothing is something...it has to be something to be unstable.
Here is my favorite teaching. This is called the Heart Sutra and doesn't refer to the human heart but the heart of the Perfection of Wisdom. It is important to understand also that nothing is not nihilism but devoid of inherent existence.
This is a whole story of setting and teaching. IMHO it does not negate physics, either quantum or mechanical. The Dalai Lama teaches that if you discover a deeper truth from science, you must accept that. I think the Buddha was 6th century bc and these truths still remain just that and are backed up quantum, string theory and etc, known physics.
http://www.tibetanbuddhist.org/sites/default/files/Heart%20Sutra_Layout%201.pdf
I'm gone for the rest of the day. I hope yours is filled with wonder, joy and happiness.
You can believe whatever you want.
It's just not supported by this science, or any science for that matter. That's all I'm saying. I realize that in your eyes this makes me a horrible, unfeeling, cold-hearted fool. Fine. Whatever you gotta think. Good luck.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)who is Lawrence Krauss? I'm sure he is very important and I confess my ignorance as to his existence and words. Please, seriously, tell me more.
And now really, I have to go. I'll look forward to your reply tonight when I get home.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)is that there is no creator god, you have no argument.
I could tell you didn't read the link in my post as you responded within moments about the Perfection of Wisdom. I'm sorry the words are too poetic for your taste, but the essence (there's that word again) is this. There is no duality and all is one. I think that Krauss explained that.
Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form
Form is not other than Emptiness and Emptiness is not other than Form.
If you are into reading some astrophysicists, one of my favorites on explaining the Holographic Universe is Michael Talbot. I find this fascinating. His work is backed up by David Bohm one of the preeminent astrophysicists today.
http://rense.com/general69/holoff.htm
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Both Talbot and Bohm have been dead for more than twenty years.
And I don't see how Bohm's model of a holonomic brain (which suggests the physical functions of cognition are similar to the physical functions of a hologram) as being particularly supportive of Talbot's "there is no objective reality because the whole universe is a hologram, man" cosmological model.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Let them have this.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)If you doubt it, pinch yourself.
And I should have said "of their time." Thanks for the correction.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Thank you for trying your best on a poor stupid idiot like me.
Rense is a conspiracy site, BTW.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)grasp on the universe and all that encompasses. May all good fortune follow you.
longship
(40,416 posts)Here it is, from Mr. Heisenberg:
The counter is also true from the given inequality. The uncertainty of energy of empty space, given any arbitrary small time frame, approaches infinity as the time frame of the measurement approaches zero.
Therefore, as Richard Feynman said when asked Why is there something rather than nothing?: "Nothing is unstable."
Nothing is inconsistent with the characteristics of reality. It's just that simple.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Truly.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Quakers say that each person has in them a spark of the Creator.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You're on the verge of getting it. Keep going.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Interesting how you feel the need to respond to everything that I post.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I understand.
Voltaire2
(13,139 posts)To me spiritual medium invokes images of Madam Lafarge charging idiots serious money to contact dead people.
But if your god is a connector particle between matter and dark matter that is a pretty wee godlet you got there.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)Voltaire2
(13,139 posts)Much like calling the Higgs Boson the "God Particle", it is causing confusion among people grasping for scientific evidence for religious beliefs.
This theoretical particle would be a connection between ordinary matter and "dark matter", discovering evidence for its existence would help increase our understanding of dark matter, and of the physical nature of the universe. No religious claims were being made.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)of which we are a part. When you cut the hologram into those "pieces/sparks" you still have the WHOLE of the hologram. Therefore, we are our own "Creator." We can not escape responsibility for anything of our lives.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Neat beliefs, but there's no evidence for any of them.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)The only ones we know exist are the ones we generate with electricity.
Your claims don't concern those, so your link doesn't help.
Voltaire2
(13,139 posts)glommed onto by those desperately seeking confirmation in the allegedly separate magisteria of science that their gods exist.
No Z is not Zeus or whatever, nor is it this alleged Sparky bit.
mia
(8,361 posts)childhood name was "Zozo"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire
Voltaire2
(13,139 posts)he was a fascinating person.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)or incapable of grasping the whole of existence, simultaneously crave its validation for their pet beliefs.
struggle4progress
(118,334 posts)http://www.quantumdiaries.org/tag/z-prime/
Existing theories predict the Higgs boson, Z', and graviton can all decay into a b quark and an anti-b quark
It's my understanding that those products would not be directly observable, so (in some sense) it's a discussion about book-keeping rules and their consequences for observable decay products
It's an interesting topic. But as far as I can tell, the only reason the article is posted in this forum is that the scientist hasn't learneds to talk to lay-listeners about his research and spouts gibberish about "a sort of spiritual medium that communicates both with regular matter and dark matter"