The Ugly Coded Critique of Chick-Fil-A's Christianity

[yallerdawg]

"When you mock Christians, you’re not mocking who you think you are."

Source: Bloomberg, by Stephen L. Carter


'The New Yorker' has been taking it on the chin lately for its essay about Chick-fil-A’s Creepy Infiltration of New York City...

What the author really seems angry about is that the company’s CEO opposes same-sex marriage. But the framing of the piece made Christianity the villain, and the headline -- “Chick-fil-A’s Creepy Infiltration of New York City” -- was sufficiently troubling that Nate Silver quickly tweeted “This is why Trump won.” Fair point. Religious bigotry is always dangerous. But there’s a deeper problem here, a difficulty endemic to today’s secular left: an all-too-frequent weird refusal to acknowledge the demographics of Christianity. When you mock Christians, you’re not mocking who you think you are.

A 2015 Pew Research Center study of race and ethnicity among U.S. religions provides some basic facts. In the first place, if you’re mocking Christians, you’re mostly mocking women, because women are more likely than men to be Christians. The greatest disproportion is found among black Christians, of whom only 41 percent are male. So you’re mocking black women in particular.

Overall, people of color are more likely than whites to be Christians -- and pretty devout Christians at that. Some 83 percent of all black Americans are absolutely certain that God exists. No other group comes close to this figure. Black Christians are far more likely than white Christians (84 percent to 64 percent) to describe religion as very important in their lives. Of all ethnic groups, black Christians are the most likely to attend services, pray frequently and read the Bible regularly. They are also -- here’s the kicker -- most likely to believe that their faith is the place to look for answers to questions about right and wrong. And they are, by large margins, the most likely to believe that the Bible is the literally inerrant word of God. In short, if you find Christian traditionalism creepy, it’s black people you’re talking about.

It’s true that, politically, black Americans are overwhelmingly Democrats, and that’s true of black Christians as well. On the other hand, black Christians tend to be socially conservative: the least tolerant of homosexuality, the most likely to oppose same-sex marriage and the least likely to believe in evolution. If you’re maligning traditional Christianity, the people you’re maligning are disproportionately black.

*****

Which brings us to one last point from the Pew study. Among Latinos and Asians, Christians are overwhelmingly first-generation immigrants.



*****

In other words, American Christianity is growing heavily through immigrants who are people of color. If Christians are really so scary, maybe it’s time to build that wall.

*****

Read it all at: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-21/criticism-of-christians-and-chick-fil-a-has-troubling-roots

[guillaumeb]

1. Recommended.

But there’s a deeper problem here, a difficulty endemic to today’s secular left: an all-too-frequent weird refusal to acknowledge the demographics of Christianity. When you mock Christians, you’re not mocking who you think you are.

I feel that there is a tendency to find, or create, enemies. And a tendency, having created those enemies, to insist that the initial tendency must be correct and must be seen as the product of superior reasoning ability.

I predict an outpouring of comments.

[ollie10]

5. What? People mock Christians? You don't say......

Many of those who mock Christians are living in their own little ivory tower.....they might think of themselves as liberals and progressives.....but it looks like a good number of those they mock are blacks, immigrants and people who normally vote Democratic.

Now if I were a Russian troll farm.....and I wanted to damage the democratic party's chances......wouldn't it be tempting to get a lot of stuff out on the internet, posing as American Democrats, dissing religion? Sure way to sow divisions within the party.....since many Ds are Christians.....and of course divisions is what the Russians have as their goal......

Relax, I am not accusing anyone. But it is an idea that the Russians could certainly exploit, much to the detriment of the Democratic Party.

[guillaumeb]

6. I think it is a very small number who do so.

Unfortunately, there is far more intolerance from conservative theists toward those who believe and think and act differently.

[ollie10]

8. True enough.

Intolerance seems to be the bad egg in the whole mess

[yallerdawg]

7. Recent polling of Catholics...

has them swinging back to the Democratic Party.

When we need every friend out there, it makes no sense to attack groups of people so divisively.

[ollie10]

12. Anti-catholic prejudice has been around for a long time

A hard habit to break, apparently.

[sprinkleeninow]

28. According to 'some' or even 'much' preaching/teaching in various 'churches'

today, having continued for decades:

"Catholics of the Roman Rite are not saved."

Who's to say?

That is outrageously presumptuous. Judge much?

Eastern Orthodoxy: "We know where the Church is, but we do not know where the church is not."

[I slipped up and posted in here again.😏]

[guillaumeb]

47. No, but like the Spanish Inquisition, the purity police are everywhere.

[guillaumeb]

2. And:In other words, white Christians are aging. Christians of color are youthening.

Does this not seem to contradict the "religion is dying" meme?

[ollie10]

3. Great OP!!!!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

4. But his Christianity IS the reason he opposed same-sex marriage, right?

I fully understand all Christians don't oppose same-sex marriage. But it's not some small minority of Christians that oppose same-sex marriage.

[ollie10]

9. There are a lot of non-religious folks who oppose same-sex marriage too

So what is the issue here? Is it whether someone is opposed to same sex marriage or if/where he prays?

The issue is bigotry against gays and it comes from religious and non-religious people alike. Blaming it on religion is a distraction and diversion.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

11. In regard to same-sex marriage, that bigotry is much more present in Christians

than in non-believers. Only Buddhists support gay marriage at a higher level than non-believers (if I remember that 2014 Pew research correctly).

Ignoring that religion is behind a great deal of it is sweeping things under the rug. It's also the main reason for anti-abortion laws, blue laws, and other governmental interferences that don't need to exist in a secular society.

[ollie10]

13. No rug here. Simply attack bigotry.

Since the OP was pointing out that blacks and immigrants are large religious groups, are you saying blacks are homophobes?

Seriously, it makes no difference what religion the person is or what race or any of that. What matters is the anti-gay bigotry.

You focus on the religion thing, you are not keeping your eyes on the ball.

But then, if your goal is to diss religion instead of focusing on anti-gay bigotry, then have at it!

[sprinkleeninow]

31. How do you mean 'support'?

Vote for it in the voting booth?

Not being a smart derrière by any way, shape or form by my comments

It don't mean beeswax to me [well, it does downcast my soul] what anyone does with themselves or to themselves as long as it's not imposed upon me.

Two people I was very close to chose to abort their babies. I've had MANY close and dear friends that were not heterosexual in the profession I worked in.

But then, how can I expect to hold/practice my Tradition of Christian Faith, partaking in it and embracing it and be a 'loose cannon' while doing so.

I am advised by a Higher Up to judge my sorry self and leave others to Heaven.

I dunno if this makes sense. I find I personally do not stand for aborting a 'fetus' [conditionally mb], but am 'choice' when it comes down to what others choose to do for/to themselves.

What about non-heterosexuals? What should I do regarding them. The Church will never cheerlead the practice, but DOES NOT condemn those. If it did start condemning 'personally' for wayward ways, it would start with pathetic, two-faced, Pharisaically hypocritical, and shabby servant ME!

Y'all want discourse? I yam discoursing to the best of my ability.

If you have something to say, please don't yell at me.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

32. If somebody in the privacy of their own minds wants to oppose same-sex marriage, that is one thing.

They're still a bigot, but at least they are keeping it to themselves.

But when they pass Prop 8 in California and fight the legalization of same-sex marriage in the country so that the SCOTUS actually has to say that gays actually have equal protection, then that seems to be a bit too far. When Christians in ND can tell stores they can't be open on Sunday (when I was a kid) or not until after church going time (just recently changed), then that seems too far, too.

I think you will find that most atheists here would have no problem with people holding these thoughts if they actually kept them to themselves and didn't make the rest of us follow them. Don't think people should shop on Sunday? Don't. Don't think people should get an abortion? Don't. But don't morality police me.

[sprinkleeninow]

34. "In the privacy of their own mind...."

One is still a bigot?

I SAID as a practicing Christian, I cannot hold a duality in 'practices' that conflicts with my Faith. Otherwise I should get out? Is that what?

So, now I'm a bigot for having this stuff privately in my mind.

Look, does some of this not sound like each of us is protesting our own stance?

I could say, "Don't immorality police me." But I won't.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

38. If you think gays shouldn't get married, then, yeah, bigot.

If you thinks blacks shouldn't go to school with whites, you're a bigot. Doesn't matter if you act to pass legislation, you're still a bigot.

If you don't want to be a bigot, then don't be. If you don't like that your religion asks you to hold bigoted stances, then that is something you are going to have to deal with. If your religion asks you to make our government change laws to match those bigoted stances, then, hopefully, the rest of society will point out that bigotry and stop you.

[sprinkleeninow]

40. Man, you are twisting this.

I don't give a flying fig who wants to marry whom. I never voted against any law or proposition allowing this.

The Faith I participate in gives me the wherewithal to go on in life. Something that is foreign to some.

My RELIGION, and that word irks me,
does not freaking participate in demanding by coercion, otherwise known as brainwashing, followers to make their political choices in casting their votes. Preaching civil politics from the pulpit is ANATHEMA.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

41. Then I guess you don't have anything to worry about.

But there are plenty of religions that tell people that gay marriage is wrong and go out of their way to change laws to match that.

[sprinkleeninow]

44. Golly gee thanks I have nothing to worry about.

Peace be unto you and yours always.

My laundry room is calling out.

[MineralMan]

39. Are you saying that you privately oppose same-sex marriage?

Really?

[sprinkleeninow]

43. I really did not wish to respond to you, altho' I have moderate affection for some of your posts.

If I didn't [reply], that inaction to message looks bad.

So I cannot win.

Y'all are using the word bigot as an identifier?

Privately oppose? Really?

I'm who I am and y'all are who you are.

Yeah, now I'm irked. A practicing Christian. Go figure.

See ya l8r, bye. Not.

[MineralMan]

49. You could have just said No.

[guillaumeb]

48. Incorrect reading of the response.

Reread it.

[Mariana]

45. I think the poster may be misuing the word "bigot"

which, to be fair, is rapidly becoming one of those words that means something different to everyone. Pretty much every definition I've seen includes the concept of intolerance, and clearly you aren't intolerant.

[sprinkleeninow]

46. I needed to reply to you. And then the suppertime circus commences!

Incoming>>>
A laden cyber smooch to ya! 😘

You are def 😍.

Ut-oh, now I showed my bigotry by partiality to one instead of others. O mon cœur.

[yallerdawg]

10. People have all kinds of personal beliefs...

but we have a system that limits how those beliefs affect the rest of us.

I have never made a purchase at a Chick-Fil-A in my life. I can also impact the system.

[mercuryblues]

14. BS strawman rebuttal by Bloomberg

The New Yorker article clearly writes about CF's and their brand of Christianity. How the Cathy's use their restaurants to evangelize it. Nowhere does it say all Christianity or even imply it. The Bloomberg article is based on nothing more than a strawman arguement.

[ollie10]

15. CF's is a brand of restaurant

[mercuryblues]

17. No shit Sherlock

The Cathy's use their restaurants to evangelize their brand of Christianity.

[ollie10]

18. So are there pictures of Jesus in the restaurant? On the menu? Religious music?

When I drive by the restaurant, I have never noticed a cross on their building.

So just how do they evangelize?

[mercuryblues]

19. It starts with who gets franchises

and how to keep them

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-reifowitz/chickfila-franchise-christian_b_1737408.html

Bible quotes on cups

Its corporate mission is "to glorify God"

[ollie10]

20. Thanks

[yallerdawg]

16. Strawman?

And yet the brand’s arrival here feels like an infiltration, in no small part because of its pervasive Christian traditionalism. Its headquarters, in Atlanta, are adorned with Bible verses and a statue of Jesus washing a disciple’s feet. Its stores close on Sundays. Its C.E.O., Dan Cathy, has been accused of bigotry for using the company's charitable wing to fund anti-gay causes, including groups that oppose same-sex marriage. “We’re inviting God’s judgment on our nation,” he once said, “when we shake our fist at him and say, ‘We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage.’ ”

[mercuryblues]

21. yes strawman

And yet the brand’s arrival here feels like an infiltration, in no small part because of its pervasive Christian traditionalism. Its headquarters, in Atlanta, are adorned with Bible verses and a statue of Jesus washing a disciple’s feet. Its stores close on Sundays. Its C.E.O., Dan Cathy, has been accused of bigotry for using the company's charitable wing to fund anti-gay causes, including groups that oppose same-sex marriage. “We’re inviting God’s judgment on our nation,” he once said, “when we shake our fist at him and say, ‘We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage.’ ”

Now lets take a look at what you didn't highlight:

And yet the brand’s arrival here feels like an infiltration, in no small part because of its pervasive Christian traditionalism. Its headquarters, in Atlanta, are adorned with Bible verses and a statue of Jesus washing a disciple’s feet. Its stores close on Sundays. Its C.E.O., Dan Cathy, has been accused of bigotry for using the company's charitable wing to fund anti-gay causes, including groups that oppose same-sex marriage. “We’re inviting God’s judgment on our nation,” he once said, “when we shake our fist at him and say, ‘We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage.’ ”

All of which make it clear that the author was talking about Chick fil a. Not all of Christianity, as the Boomberg article states.

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 asserts proposition X.

Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.

For example:
Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[yallerdawg]

22. "Coded critique."

You want to argue irrelevant trivia.

Enjoy.

[mercuryblues]

23. again

that is what the author of the Bloomberg article says. Where the New Yorker article clearly stated his entire article was based on
Cick fil a's practices. As a matter of fact the NYer article wrote more about their advertising campaigns and how they resonated with the public, than the religious aspect.

Sometimes an orange is just an orange.

[msongs]

25. some practitioners of some religions love to feel persecuted even when they are not nt

[Major Nikon]

42. Some elevate the performance to high art

What’s even better is that the whole idea of a protected class is to protect those from discrimination who are unfairly disadvantaged. Some evidently have this dynamic completely reversed and think the advantaged are the ones who deserve the most protection.

[Major Nikon]

29. Just someone else who ridiculously claims tolerance requires one to tolerate intolerance

This one is a bit more ridiculous than most.

If you mock Chick-fil-a, you must be mocking Christianity. If you are mocking Christianity you must be mocking Christians. If you are mocking Christians you must be mocking black women. If you are mocking black women, you must be a bigot.

Associative "logic" at it's best.

God is love.
Love is blind.
Ergo, Stevie Wonder is god!

[sprinkleeninow]

33. I... you...

Last edited Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

oh ow my poor puddin' head.

I yam befuddled with how to sort this out.

Chicka filet, ouï, Chicka filet, très mal.

[Major Nikon]

24. So I can't mock and idea without mocking black women

As if that premise weren't ridiculous enough the author assumes those in the majority are the ones in the driver's seat.

[Mariana]

30. Furthermore, it's YOUR fault that Republicans win elections.

So shut the fuck up.

[Ferrets are Cool]

26. "This is why tRump won" Now you are just showing your incompetence and ignorance Silver. nt

[yallerdawg]

27. Instead of unity and tolerance...

we express contempt and disdain.

If you want to feed anger and resentment, don't change a thing!

Link to tweet

[Ferrets are Cool]

50. No idea what your post means and I don't do twitter so feeding me

tweets do not help. It's ok. I is only my opinion. I doesn't matter.

[MineralMan]

35. I criticize that company for its offensive attitudes.

I boycott that company for the same reasons. That it declares itself a "Christian" company has nothing to do with my contempt for it. Homophobic and anti-choice, it is a company I cannot do business with.

Those are not Christian viewpoints or standards. They are bigoted human viewpoints and standards.

And there it is.

[Mariana]

36. Well, it's your fault Trump is President.

Pointing out that these Christians are hateful and bigoted is exactly the same as saying all Christians are hateful and bigoted. Just you remember that, or else.

Needless to say,

[MineralMan]

37. That logical error is far too recognizable here.

Too bad.

[tanyev]

51. All the militant Chick Fil A supporters I know of are white.

[Voltaire2]

52. Oh the owners of CF can just fuck off and die.

They are religious bigots. End of story.