I contend we are both atheists,

[NeoGreen]

http://www.askatheists.com/atheist-quotes

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Stephen F Roberts

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
Emo Philips

George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and Christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd.
Sam Harris

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.
Gene Roddenberry

And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence
Bertrand Russell

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Unknown

The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion.
John Adams, 2nd President of the United States
(Article 11 of Treaty of Tripoli, 1796)


The treaty was printed in the Philadelphia Gazette and two New York papers, with only scant public dissent, most notably from William Cobbett.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

[LuvNewcastle]

1. I especially like the Gene Roddenberry quote.

I don't have a problem believing in gods. I think there might even be more gods than humans in the cosmos. But when you start talking about a being that's all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfect, I tend to be skeptical. I've just never seen anything in life that wasn't flawed and can't imagine anything that's flawless.

[Ferrets are Cool]

3. In a list of great quotes

Roddenberry's was my favorite also.

[WhiteTara]

4. what's especially difficult is to be all and yet

be outside looking in. If you are all that is, there is no in and out, it simply is.

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I hadn't thought about it like that before,

but you’re right. I don’t see how an all- encompassing god could know what each of us is doing. It would be like us knowing what each atom in our body is doing. Does god know where each quark in the cosmos is and what it’s doing? I couldn’t believe that.

[WhiteTara]

7. well, if you accept the premise that god is all

then god is you and yep, you see everything you do. Each quark is god and knows what is is doing. Or some seem to think that god is some white guy on a gold throne with both hands in the air, directing traffic to heaven and hell.

[lagomorph777]

11. One of my favorite music albums is called "The Perfect Flaw"

interestingly, the artist's name is "Tim Story"

[padfun]

2. Very good

I think religion is the biggest threat to us right now, especially the brand that Trump and Pence are trying to install. And that means far right, religious judges.

[MineralMan]

6. That's a nicely curated list of quotes!

[Mc Mike]

8. Sam Harris's inclusion seems to contradict that idea.

[Moostache]

10. That specific Harris quote is spot on.

The idea that political candidates and hucksters get a pass for claiming to "hear God tell them" things is laughable. Harris has also compared this to people who claim they have seen Elvis or UFOs. It is only the ludicrous claim that one is "talking to God" that gets a pass on the crazy-o-meter and that IS flat out wrong.

Whenever I see these asshole pols pandering to religious rubes I want to demand answers to the following questions:

1) Was "god" a baritone or an alto voice?
2) How was "god"'s English? Did he use the more proper British or colloquial American slang?
3) Why did you not ask "god" to reveal himself to the world in physical form NOW, when such a thing could be properly documented and disseminated world-wide instead of relying on word of mouth, fabrications and embellishments of stories stolen from other sources?

And on and on and on...

There is no "god" in the manner that people wish to say there is...namely a capricious overlord with temper issues and weird proclivities for concern with humans putting their naughty parts in the wrong place, touching them in the wrong way, or using them at all without magic words being exchanged first in an approved building or setting.

[MineralMan]

17. Really? I liked that one very much.

How, in your opinion, does its inclusion contradict my opinion?

[Mc Mike]

21. The guy who opposes the 'regressive left', but holds a candle to Charles Murray's Bell Curve,

is probably not your friend.

I mentioned Kristi Winters and Kevin Logan's work to you before, and you didn't reply. Your privilege to do so, of course.

But as a religious person, I see that they are coming to terms with a bunch of sneaky nazis infiltrating their movement. They already exposed a large number of people within the rational skeptic secular humanist ranks actually being trump-humpers, backing the guy who backs the virulently nazi bircher repug 'christians'. Sam Seder's Majority Report is also doing so.

Next up, from what I'm seeing, is Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin.

[Act_of_Reparation]

22. Define "large".

[NeoGreen]

23. Sam Harris is anything but a "Trump Humper"...

...
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1017494919

[Mc Mike]

24. Village Voice, 5/14/18, on Rubin, Peterson, Harris:

https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/05/14/conservatives-cheer-the-latest-right-wing-supergroup-the-intellectual-dark-web/

[trotsky]

25. 3 guys, only one of whom is an atheist (that I'm aware of).

This is what you claim is "a large number of people within the rational skeptic secular humanist ranks"?

[NeoGreen]

26. That and because Roy Edroso is such a...

...honest and erudite writer:
http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/11/village-voice-writer-states-falsely-that

Who is in no way looking merely to use hyperbole and drive up readership but to fully examine a particular issue in an honest and even-handed way.

So there is no reason to go to the source and examine the persons actual positions and statements on your own:
https://samharris.org/podcast/

[trotsky]

27. Atheistsbadz once again. n/t

[Lordquinton]

28. Oh man, haven't heard that one in a while

Now remembering the threads about how that exact phrase was never said, coming from the guy who accuses anyone of reading the words from the Bible as being a literalist.

[Major Nikon]

31. Personally I find the only person I agree with 100% is myself

I will at times quote people with whom I agree with on that singular matter, but not much else.

[Mc Mike]

41. Right. Interesting. I can't muster any opposition to the op quotes, and love Lord Russell

for his efforts to show the changing story on the JFK assassination which Russell was hearing in real time in England.

I'm a big Vonnegut fan, and he was a very good person in my opinion, who said extremely interesting things about physiology, biochemistry, free will, etc. It seems to me like there's a world of difference between Vonnegut's ideas and Harris's, or the counterfeit 'Vonnegut' ideas that PJ Farmer was putting out in his 'Kilgore Trout' book.

I don't really know the online personalities, until a few viewings of them or discussions of them stick to my memory. I brought up Logan/Winters as people who I might disagree with on religion, but they're doing such good work, it doesn't matter where they're coming from. If it isn't broke, why 'fix' it by picking a fight?

Some of the opposition for the Winters/Logan crowd would be sargon, armoured skeptic, tj the amazing athiest, etc., and their fans.

Those people were already dismantled to my mind in 'manosphere' vids. The argument was never religion vs no religion for W/L vs their opponents. The fight looked like a real sense of outrage coming from good people saying 'these people masqueraded as being like us, and actually are right wingers who will back the most virulent fake 'religious' 'christian' monsters.

You and MM I've seen posting over a long period of time, and find respectable, agree or disagree. I don't enter the religion or atheism groups, unless they happen to pop up on the front page as trending, so don't know the post-ers or controversies involved.

I was just pointing out that Harris (along with Rubin and Peterson) looks like something I've seen before, someone who's job it is to pretend to be reasonable and 'expert' in some capacity, but actually are trying to find new ways to sell right wing fascism to an audience, when that audience may feel they are immune to that type of bad input.

Just an attempted tip-off, not an attempt at proselytizing in favor of religion, or against free thought. I spend a lot of time bad mouthing rightwing 'catholics' like aynrand Ryan, Opus Dei Santorum, and 'slappy' Clarence Thomas, trying to take care of my end of the street. Harris smells like sargon, Rubin gets money from the Kochs, Peterson got covered in the Village Voice article above.

[Mc Mike]

44. I notice that the o.p.er is showing the VV article I posted is written by a bad guy, coz a guy from

Reason doesn't like him.

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Reason_Foundation

Don't know the o.p.er, but trust sourcewatch over the Koch bros. Looks like another attempt to inject rightwingery into the mainstream of athiesm/agnosticism.

[Major Nikon]

50. I'm not really sure what "mainstream" atheism even looks like

Certainly there are some authors writing popular books on the subject, but most of it seems far more related to anti-theism as opposed to atheism.

[Mc Mike]

52. I have less of an idea than you, I think.

I didn't follow the rational skeptic freethought athiest youtubers at the start, only started paying attention when the infighting occurred that I saw via Winters Logan et al vs their opponents.

I wasn't looking for a reason to indict a - theists, but could see the kochroaches fingerprints all over these 'skeptics' who were backing people like dRump pence devos. I'll bet those fake ones follower #s are puffed up by bots.

[Mc Mike]

53. By coincidence,

my rational skeptical heroes Winters/Logan et al just squashed Peterson's 5 min Prager U vid. (I know the original subthread was the validity of Harris, but some of the o.p.er's confreres on this site were whinging that only Harris is 'athiest', Rubin and Peterson weren't.)

Prager U is a fundy christian outfit which takes people (Rubin, Peterson, Epstein) from the Ayn Rand Institute and puts them on it's non academically accredited video blog.

So there's Peterson and Rubin hanging around with Ayn Rand 'athiests', and using that connection to go onto a bircher fundy christian 'University' video lecture series, in appearances that promote fascist thought.

Who's to say what's 'mainstream' athiest thought? But I'm pretty sure my simple points, that 'Harris = bad', and 'Harris, Peterson, Rubin are eerily parallel', are born out.

[Iggo]

18. Huh?

[relogic]

9. A great sampling of quotes demonstrating...

the application of critical thinking skills which is sadly in short supply. The established, coddled religions have always done an excellent job of installing ignorance where rational, evidence-based thinking is critical for maneuvering our way through a complex world.

Religion teaches and allows dismissal of reliance on reality, but insists on dependence of mysterious, hidden forces without cause.

[LakeArenal]

12. There's just no such thing as divinity. Nt

[Major Nikon]

32. The hell you say

[LakeArenal]

37. I stand corrected!! 😜

[CrispyQ]

13. LOL. I'd never heard that version of the fish one before.

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Unknown

[mountain grammy]

16. My favorite!

[Wounded Bear]

14. Man created God in his own image...

[byronius]

15. Bertrand Russell Rocks.

What a great Weirdo.

[Major Nikon]

19. Nutty religious beliefs aren't the problem, but rather a symptom

There’s people who genuinely believe in alien abductions, ghosts, the Loch Ness Monster, reincarnation, and all sorts of supperstions. None of those beliefs harm other people, because there’s no organization of those groups who seek to influence public policy.

I have no more problems with religion than I do with people who won’t fly on Friday the 13th. I have a problem with organized religion affecting my life and those I care about.

[MineralMan]

20. Exactly. What does not affect me doesn't concern me.

What affects me concerns me deeply.

Organized religion often seeks to affect others and, so, is a matter of concern for me and many others.

[guillaumeb]

29. Some atheists believe in a divine presence.

Are THEY also atheists?

[NeoGreen]

30. Some Atheists say "Oh god!" during...

Last edited Sat Jun 9, 2018, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

...coitus, they're still Atheists, even in that moment of "divine presence", however "divine presence" is defined or by whomever defines it.

[MineralMan]

33. Which atheists believe that? Name some.

[Major Nikon]

34. ...

[MineralMan]

35. Ah, of course. In that case, I must also believe in the Divine.

I also believe in the Devine.

[guillaumeb]

36. You did read the word "some", correct?

Qualifiers are important, if often ignored in this forum.

[MineralMan]

38. Name "some," then.

Name some atheists who believe in a divine presence. C'mon...you said it, so give us a couple of names. You made a claim, so back it up with some information. I don't believe that there are atheists who believe in anything divine. You claim there are, so name some for me. You must have based your claim on some sort of information, so back it up, please. I will be very curious to see what "atheists" you name.

Don't divert. If you make a claim, demonstrate its truth.

[guillaumeb]

42. A silly challenge.

I linked to the Pew poll elsewhere. Read and argue with the poll if it pleases you.

[Lordquinton]

39. Some people who don't believe in god believe in god

that's actually what you just said.

[MineralMan]

40. Contradiction in terms.

Not surprising, of course, but usually not so clear.

[guillaumeb]

43. I referred to a Pew poll.

Your argument is with the self-defined atheists who responded that way.

[Lordquinton]

45. So you can't produce any actual evidence?

Given the extreme contradiction in terms, don't you think that maybe there was some flaw in the methodology?

[guillaumeb]

46. Given that the poll results contradict what you obviously believe to be true,

is it possible that you do not wish to believe something that contradicts your preferred position/belief?

[Lordquinton]

47. No

You think that a poll that says, in effect, "5% of people who don't believe in god believe in god" might maybe have a flaw in it?

[guillaumeb]

48. We disagree.

Understandable on your part.

[Lordquinton]

49. So you see nothing wrong with "2% of people who don't believe in god believe in god"

re-reading the poll you linked I found that the 2014 results were much lower than the 2007 results you choose to quote. Maybe they had better methodology in the more recent one?

Why are you using outdated stats, is it the same reason you quoted one person't number of posts and another's percentage of posts?

[smirkymonkey]

51. Great collection of quotes.

I have to admit, the Emo Phillips quote made me LOL.