Good news: Multiracial churches increase as blacks, whites learn to worship together

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

The percentage of U.S. multiracial congregations almost doubled between 1998 and 2012, from 6.4 percent to 12 percent, according to a study published in June in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion. In the same period, the percentage of U.S. congregants attending an interracial church has reached almost one in five, advancing from 12.7 percent to 18.3 percent. The 2012 statistics are the latest available.

To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2018/06/29/multiracial-churches/

Long overdue, but good news of a belated sort.

[trotsky]

1. Pretty sad that you need to celebrate humans acting with basic decency as "good news."

But I guess you have to take what you can get when it comes to good news in religion.

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. Even worse when you need to celebrate 12% of humans acting with basic decency as "good news".

But you know the deal. Blah blah blah blah blah choir blah blah blah blah blah eleventh commandment blah blah blah blah is telling.

[trotsky]

6. Much easier to dehumanize opposing voices than engage them in dialog.

Look no further than our current political climate for other examples. Sucks to see it here on DU too.

[guillaumeb]

8. Pretty sad that one would feel a need to comment in this manner.

But in the absence of substantive discussion, one can always follow the 11th Commandment.

[trotsky]

10. Dehumanization. n/t

[guillaumeb]

11. I understand the 11th Commandment,

and how it is followed.

[trotsky]

12. You understand these things extremely well:

* Whataboutism
* Dehumanization
* Deflection
* Doubt
* Reframing
* Anchoring

Because you engage in them ALL. THE. TIME.

[guillaumeb]

13. You demonstrate, if unintentionally,

the concept of irony.

[trotsky]

14. Thanks for another personal attack on my intelligence.

And for continuing to be a fine example of Christian love.

Have the last word, gil.

[guillaumeb]

15. I understand your tactics.

So do others.

[MineralMan]

22. Far more understand yours, clearly. nt

[guillaumeb]

25. Your personal, unsubstantiated opinion.

But you are welcome to it.

[MineralMan]

30. See my signature line.

Everything I write is my opinion, just as everything you write. Unremarkable, really, that we express opinions here.

[Mariana]

31. Unsubstantiated? Not so.

MineralMan's personal opinion is substantiated on the great volume of evidence provided by you.

[guillaumeb]

42. To borrow from your words....

not so.

[marylandblue]

46. Do you think any personal opinion can be substantiated?

If so, how?

[guillaumeb]

48. I prefer butter pecan iced cream.

I prefer hot tea over coffee.

Please feel free to elaborate.

[marylandblue]

49. I believe Donald Trump is an idiot savant

He knows almost nothing except he is a brilliant con artist.

Substantiation: Listen to any of his rally speeches. Identify all the lies and errors. Wonder at the fact that 60 million people actually voted for him.

[guillaumeb]

70. We agree, on this at least.

Trump, like all con men, tells people that what they want to believe can be done. On a certain basic level, I feel that many Trump voters really hope that they/Trump can turn back the clock to the America that they imagine existed in the 1950s.

[marylandblue]

87. ok, but I didn't expect you to disagree

Point was that some beliefs can be substantiated while ice cream preferences cannot.

[guillaumeb]

100. Butter pecan is the best.

Followed closely by Cherry Garcia.

[marylandblue]

101. I gave you an example of a substantiated belief

You ignored the substantiation and focused only on the belief. Is your dislike of Trump a mere preference? Like he's fine for some, but he is just not your preferred flavor of politician?

[guillaumeb]

103. Trump, in my view, is a sociopath.

He also seems to be a racist and a misogynist. He is fine for racist, misogynistic sociopaths.

[marylandblue]

104. But disliking sociopaths is a mere preference?

No more reason to dislike sociopaths than to dislike strawberry ice cream. IMHO strawberry is the world's worst ice cream flavor, and should be removed from ice cream shops, to prevent accidental mixing with other, more decent flavors.

[guillaumeb]

110. Disliking and/or fearing sociopaths is a natural response

to a sociopath who has no respect for others.

[marylandblue]

116. But still just a preference, albeit a common one

Some people seem to like sociopaths. Half the country voted for one. And you can provide no rational basis why they shouldn't? It may seem natural to you, but obviously it is not natural to others.

[Permanut]

148. I understand your need..

to restate an imaginary commandment.

[guillaumeb]

151. Given how often the observation is validated here,

I would not use the word imaginary.

[Major Nikon]

39. At least it's a diversion from the usual canned responses

So there’s that.

[trotsky]

128. Always nice to get a little variety. n/t

[Major Nikon]

37. Kinda rich how you'd complain about the lack of substantive discussion

[whathehell]

77. Sad and petty.. Were this about the "desegregation" of any other

societal institution, they'd be celebrating with you.

I guess the mention of anything "religious", gets the knees jerking.

[guillaumeb]

79. Agreed, but there are different "goalposts" for religion.

And like the horizon, those goalposts recede as one approaches them.

[marylandblue]

88. Maybe they would find this progress too slow elsewhere as well.

And would it hurt to ask them about it instead of drawing the conclusion upfront?

[whathehell]

90. Lol..I doubt it

I've had quite a bit of experience with these posters.

[marylandblue]

91. I frequently hear such charges, but see little evidence

And what little evidence is never discussed as to why they might think that way. I see a lotnodnassumptions that whatever the other side thinks must be for bad reasons.

[whathehell]

92. Really?

Well, that's unfortunate, but I've been here for ten years and don't quite see it that way.
You are, of course, free to take the matter up with them yourself.

[marylandblue]

93. I haven't been here so long, but I do get nonanswers like that sometimes.

[Mariana]

94. A while back there was a poster who expected everyone to cheer

because only 80% of white Evangelical Christians voted for Roy Moore. We were apparently supposed to be impressed that it wasn't 100% of them. He criticized any posters who mentioned this fact, but he didn't have much of anything to say against the Christians who voted for that disgusting piece of shit Moore. Here's the thread, if you're interested:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218262375

And here, we're supposed to be excited because only 82% of Christians segregate themselves when they worship? We're supposed to applaud this because it's not 100% of them? Is that really what you expect?

[whathehell]

95. Oh that's too bad, Mariana..

but it seems you missed the point of my last post, and that was that I'm completely uninterested in discussing this matter. Have a nice day, now.

[marylandblue]

98. You are not interested in talking about it

but you are interested in telling us how uninterested you are? Interesting.

[whathehell]

107. That is correct.

I'm glad you find that "interesting". Buh bye now.

[marylandblue]

108. So why do you want to do that?

[whathehell]

123. Goodbye.

[marylandblue]

127. You came back just to say goodbye?

Reminds me of something a three year old would do.

[Mariana]

132. Didn't this poster call other people "sad and petty" upthread?

Have a little irony, it's good for your blood.

[trotsky]

136. Came back to say goodbye *again*.

In case you missed it the first time, I guess?

That one is funny.

[MineralMan]

2. So, fewer than 20% of church-goers attend a "multi-racial" church?

I see the article rounded 18% up to one in five. That means that over 80% of Christians don't attend a multiracial church. How is that "good news?" One of the churches discussed in your article began with a congregation of 250, which dropped to 50 after it became multi-racial. Now, it's back up to up to 100 congregants. That means that 150 "good Christian" people decided they wanted nothing to do with a multi-racial church. I'm sorta not seeing the "good news" in that.

Of course, all of this information is six years old, so who knows what's going on in 2018? Do you?

It's always interesting to actually read the articles you post here as "good news." There's always a catch in them, it seems. Do you read the articles?

[trotsky]

3. Given the MANY times he's been humiliated by the content of his very own articles...

I'm going to guess the answer to your last question is "No."

[MineralMan]

18. It often seems to be so. Often, it seems

As though only the first paragraph or two was read before posting. That seems risky to me. I'm a fast reader, and do visit links. Maybe the assumption is that DUers don't click on link s. That would explain a great deal.

[guillaumeb]

9. Do you read the articles

and feel compelled to comment to show that theists are not perfect? If so, why do you feel so compelled?

[MineralMan]

16. I do read the articles you post.

When I do, I'm often confused, since it seems you did not read them.

I comment to try to resolve the conflict, but you do not reply relevantly. It's a shame, I think.

[guillaumeb]

17. If you are confused,

perhaps you should engage in dialogue. But if your goal is to demonstrate that theists are imperfect, I fail to see the point of you responding at all. So we are both confused.

[MineralMan]

19. Dialog involves asking questions and reading answers.

Will you answer? If not, there is no dialog. I wrote more than one paragraph, and asked more than one question. You offered only an insult. If you wish for dialog, you must participate in good faith.

[Lordquinton]

23. He was engaging in dialogue

you responded with an ad hominem, and now make a ironic call for dialogue.

It doesn't happen because you and yours refuse to. This subthread is just the latest piece of evidence that goes back years in this group. Atheists have tried every approach, but they all fail because theists don't want dialogue, they want submission.

[guillaumeb]

26. He admitted to being confused.

Perhaps you missed that part of his response?


As to your last paragraph, I see much straw and little else.

[marylandblue]

28. There were questions in his response you did not answer

Maybe you should try answering them?

[guillaumeb]

40. Please see #20

[marylandblue]

43. There is another question in his post you didn't answer

And there are several discussion points he raised as well, which could be addressed as well.

Providing data up to 2016 is better than 2012, but a lot has happened since 2016, much more than in a typical 2-year period, so while we probably can't get current data, there is still a lot to talk about.

[guillaumeb]

44. To me, the main point is that,

no matter the percentage, no matter the issue, anything less than perfection is dismissed by some here who seem determined to promote their own view of theism and theists.

For these few, the good is always the enemy of the perfect.

As to the data from 1998 to 2016, it shows a tripling of interracial congregations. That probably represents a far more significant model of integration than does US housing and educational numbers. The US is still a very segregated society.

[marylandblue]

45. What? I am shocked, simply shocked, that atheists promote their own views around here!

I think there is a lot more to their opinions than "good is the enemy of the perfect." And if you discussed what drives their opinions without making value judgments as to whether it meet your predetermined criteria for dismissal (for example, any opinion that can be dismissed as making the good enemy of the perfect, shall be dismissed) then there might be an opening for more dialogue.

[guillaumeb]

47. I can see the "trends", as can others.

When I read the fairly regular straw man posts about what some claim to see by theists demanding submission by atheists, I cannot take such things as serious dialogue. They are attempts to shut down dialogue by theists.

When I read a response from one poster claiming that I have "ruined" DU for that poster, I cannot take that as actual dialogue either.

[marylandblue]

50. I see a lot of straw men, shut down attempts and alleged non-canonical commandments on all sides

They are almost as common as Elvis sightings. And like Elvis sightings, I mostly ignore them.

[sprinkleeninow]

51. I would be ga-ga after a sighting of Elvis. Elvis Costello, that is! 🤗

[marylandblue]

53. I did see him in concert many years ago

So maybe there is evidence of an Elvis after all.

[sprinkleeninow]

56. He reminds me so much of my step-dad.

Not the musical chops, but everything about his looks and mostly being born a Brit. My dad was born in Sheffield. Came to the US in the fifties. Still had that wonderful accent. Had my mom pronouncing 'tomahtoes'. I said, Ma!"

I want to stay stateside and resist, but I do declare, how bad it gets, I have visions of going 'over there'.

You lucky to have enjoyed him in concert. 🤗

[sprinkleeninow]

52. Cereally though, what would be a non-canonical commandment.

Non-theists have them also?

[marylandblue]

54. Gil's favorite, the 11th commandment is not attested in any known manuscripts

Atheists on this site have proposed their own 12th and 18th commandments, but likewise, there is no evidence for such commandments, nor can they explain what happened to the 13th through 17th commandments.

[sprinkleeninow]

57. The DOG ate those missing commandments.😊

[Mariana]

113. Gil routinely disobeys the 11th commandment.

He's forever posting stuff here that he calls good news about religion, in direct violation of the commandment. Of course, he's a Christian, so I guess that means his sins get forgiven.

[marylandblue]

117. Apparently the 11th Commandment only applies to non-Christians

It may be in the Gospel According to Dawkins. I'd check, but I lost my copy.

[guillaumeb]

71. I saw Elvis at our 4th of July Parade.

[sprinkleeninow]

118. How'd I miss this one....😆

You make good humor! 😉

[guillaumeb]

137. He looked like Elvis.

He sounded like Elvis.

[sprinkleeninow]

141. Guillaume! 😉

[sprinkleeninow]

59. Christian houses of worship are more diverse than ever b4.

I can't cite figures, but firsthand can say this is true. Considering our own community of the faithful. And we're small.

If one does not attend, how can one know what's what.

[guillaumeb]

72. But beccause it is not 100% of churches,

it is dismissed by some few as not enough. The ever moving bar that can never be reached.

[sprinkleeninow]

74. Not enuff/never enuff. We keep missing the mark. Who moved

the goalpost? again.

We have not attained expected perfection.

We continue to fall short and disappoint.

[guillaumeb]

76. Some have placed the goalposts on wheels.

Like the horizon, it recedes as one approaches.

[sprinkleeninow]

83. This is tellement vrai! 😉

[marylandblue]

96. Who are the people coming into your church now

Are they minority converts to Eastern Orthodox? Or are they already Eastern Orthodox, just coming from different countries than in the past?

[sprinkleeninow]

105. There's some who have not been born into the Orthodox Faith. They have embraced the Faith

singularly or through marriage.

One woman is Phillipino. Husband is American Caucasian.

There's a newcomer I met who has an AA boy. She's white.

Another woman has a number of adopted children, some AA and some Asian, some white. They're Orthodox, not born into the Faith as they're called 'cradle' Orthodox.

Another new convert is Asian.

We had other people of ethnicity [do we want to identify as minority?] who were converts to the Faith who have moved away due to relocation.

We have a small community so not large numbers.

[Mariana]

129. Yes, we're supposed to celebrate

that churches aren't 100% segregated.

Hey, at the rate they're going, they might be fully integrated in about 200 years! Hooray! Good news!

[sprinkleeninow]

133. Well, granted, it's slow going. But at the least, if it's in the plus side...

The evolving of the Christian Faith went another way than conceived, what appears to me.

[guillaumeb]

138. So we should attack the progress because it falls short of perfection?

I understand.

[Mariana]

139. Only 200 years to go! Let's start the countdown!

Shall we have a party to celebrate the progress when it gets all the way to only 80% segregated? That should be happening any decade now!

[guillaumeb]

149. For the country as a whole?

[marylandblue]

142. Perhaps we should have a new heading category called "mediocre news"

[Mariana]

146. You're just attacking the progress

because it falls short of perfection.

[marylandblue]

147. I'm just making the mediocre the enemy of the marginal

[Lordquinton]

29. You read his whole post, right?

You ignored all that and latched onto one part and then refused to engage on it.

When someone says they're confused that's an opening to dialogue, where you can clear up the confusion, but you never take it, why is that?

The last part wasn't straw, it was pointing out what's been going on in this group for years.

Is this a new commandment? Theists shall not engage in dialogue?

[guillaumeb]

41. Please see #20

And the last part was pure straw. There are no such posts, much less a constant stream of them.

[Lordquinton]

78. Refer to another post you refused to engage in dialogue in?

Was that an example of you enforcing the 12th commandment?

[guillaumeb]

80. No, simply link to the constant stream of posts

demanding that atheists be quiet, or submit to theists.

If there are so many, that should be easy.

[Lordquinton]

85. Enforcing the 12th commandment again

You pivoted really fast, and I still have not seen any dialogue from you.

[guillaumeb]

97. Your refusal to provide any evidence for a claim

basically supports my response. Thank you for the confirmation.

[Act_of_Reparation]

144. It's self-evident.

You want proof? Every time you've made phony pleas for tolerance. Every time you've dismissed criticism with your "11th commandment". Every time you've taken it upon yourself to explain to us how we should feel about being targets of religious aggression. Every time you've found an atheist reaction to religious abuse more offensive than the abuse itself. Every time you've summarily dismissed atheist experiences with meaningless anecdotes. Every time you've implored us to dialogue while flatly refusing to partake yourself.

So pretty much everything you've ever posted here.

[guillaumeb]

150. Something is self-evident.

And the lack of any evidence to support a claim is part of it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

152. Yes. The lack of irony with which you make that statement.

[guillaumeb]

20. Another source:

Surveying congregation demographics between 1998 and 2012, the study found an increase in the number of multiracial congregations. In 1998, just 6.4 percent of Christian congregations overall were multiracial — defined as having no single ethnic group make up more than 80 percent of the community. By 2012, that figure doubled to 12 percent. In that timeframe, the portion of American churchgoers who attended multiracial churches went up from 12.7 percent to 18.3 percent.
Changes were particularly pronounced in evangelical churches, which have historically been racially segregated, and seems to have been spurred, at least in part, by the proliferation of evangelical megachurches.
While the study ends with 2012, the findings track with wider demographic changes in church communities. Trends within the evangelical community likewise have indicated an increasingly diverse, and increasingly multiracial, church in the years leading up to the 2016 election.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/3/17527774/study-churches-racial-diversity-trump


I have found no sources more current, but this article refers to a trend that spans 1998-2016.

So, if we accept that Christian congregations are becoming more diverse, I see that as good news. Better news would be far greater diversity, but churches seem to mirror the country as a whole. If most Americans live in segregated towns, it is not surprising that church membership would reflect that larger segregation.

Since 2000, racial minorities—blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and other non-white groups—have comprised 95 percent of U.S. population growth and 98 percent of growth in the nation’s 100 largest metropolitan areas. Still, in these areas, which saw both high minority growth and increased minority dispersion to the suburbs, the average white resident lives in a neighborhood that has become only modestly more diverse and remains markedly “whiter” than its respective metropolitan area population.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2016/12/13/white-neighborhoods-get-modestly-more-diverse-new-census-data-show/

[MineralMan]

21. Most of that information was at your Original link.

I also read the journal article mentioned in the article. Apparently you read neither.

Yes, the numbers of multi-racial churches have increased. They remain dismal, though. Actual data stops at 2012.

I can't call this good news. At best, it is simply a minor, incremental increase. Still, fewer than 20% of churches are multi-racial. That's not good news at all.

[guillaumeb]

24. Again with the insults.

I actually read both prior to posting, but for some reason you seem to feel a need to insult. Is this part of the dialogue that you seek?

[Bretton Garcia]

62. Recent data reverses the trend toward multiethnicity

Due to Trump:

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/3/17527774/study-churches-racial-diversity-trump

[MineralMan]

63. Nice find!

[guillaumeb]

75. No, it does not.

Assuming that you and MM read the entire article, it suggests, based solely on anecdotal evidence, that this trend might be reversing.

[Bretton Garcia]

86. Preliminary informal evidence, or early indications. ...

... from.among other sources, the NY Times, in conjunction with rational extrapolations from the observable racism of the Trump administration, have suggested as a likely hypothesis deserving systematic investigation, this possibility: that 1) there is a racism in white evangelicals that is increasingly evident in the Trump administration. And 2) because of this, we are likely to see the modest increase of multiracial churches that was observed in the Obama administration - an increase to 20% - to slow, and likely decrease.

Here's a NY Times article that would, among many other sources, suggest this as a likely hypothesis for future research;


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/us/blacks-evangelical-churches.html

Here to be sure, as always, a scientist needs to be careful; "faith"-based accounts are often deliberately and explicitly antagonistic to observable facts, seen with our "eyes."

[guillaumeb]

99. Again, this is speculation.

If you equate speculation with proof, or proving a point, I would suggest that you are confused.

[Bretton Garcia]

106. Do you know what an "hypothesis" is? Roughly....

You begin with the mere germ of an idea, based usually on some kind of preliminary data or apparent evidence. Then you frame a formal idea, to be researched systematically. Only if that verifies your initial idea, do you have a likely "proof," often.

But often the sketchy initial observation or informal "data, " proves useful; since often it is finally more formally proven by more extensive testing or observations.

[guillaumeb]

111. Again, in the absence of actual data,

this proves nothing.

[Bretton Garcia]

121. The account of one example by the NYTimes is a datum

The NY Times, even more than other papers, has extremely high if not fully scientific standards for accuracy in reportage. Practically speaking it strongly documents at least one case.

And that is enough to supply enough rational background to suggest a very plausible thesis. That multiethnic churches increased in the Obama administration; but are declining under the manifestly racist Trump presidency.

More will be needed of course, for science. But here on DU, few of us present fully, scientifically verified results full time; an article from a reliable newspaper is usually considered enough evidence to begin a serious discussion.

[Permanut]

140. I understad your need to characterize those who disagree with you..

as "confused".

[Mariana]

32. I have wondered, MineralMan, if Gil isn't a very talented troll.

The stories he posts as "good news" are just so pitiful, and generally contain much more bad news than good. Since almost all of his "good news" stories actually make religion look bad, maybe making religion look bad is his goal in the first place.

It is also possible that he picks stories such as these because he wants to pretend he's being persecuted. He knows perfectly well that we will point out the glaringly obvious bad news inherent in a story such as this. Maybe that is what he wants.

[MineralMan]

33. No, I don't think he is a very talented troll.

To answer your question. He appears to be a person who cannot accept that others do not believe that supernatural influences exist. So, he rejects any such discussions by responding with non-sequiturs.

[Mariana]

34. Oh, I don't really think so, I agree with you.

It has crossed my mind, though. I mean, here he posts a story that clearly says that the vast majority of Christians attend segregated churches, and he labels it "good news". He had to know that hardly anyone here would consider that to be good news. So why post it and label it such?

[MineralMan]

35. That's why I asked him if he had read

the entire article. He did not answer, so I assume not. Perhaps that is at the core of the contradictions. Hard to say, though. Talented? I've seen precious little evidence of that, so I'm withholding judgment. I rarely see that many of his own words. Usually, he posts excerpts from others' writings with minimal content of his own. So there's not a large sample of his own thinking available.

[Mariana]

36. Talented at picking "good news" stories

that actually make religion look bad, such as this one. Or, talented at provoking the reaction he wants, so he can pretend to be butthurted and babble on about a nonexistent commandment and an imaginary singing group. It is very weird behaviour, that's for sure.

[MineralMan]

38. Well, it's all very interesting...

Of that I'm certain.

[sprinkleeninow]

55. A commandment and a group of singers.

Whattabout youse guys and yer fan club and cheering squad remarks?

Forsooth, it goes both ways.

[Voltaire2]

61. The 11th choir practices at 10.

Bring yer wombat.

[sprinkleeninow]

67. It's at the dry cleaners. I'll hafta bring my spare riassa.

There's a clip on the youtube of a rescued baby wombat frolicking and getting tickled. Awwws.

[sprinkleeninow]

69. Ooh, is that 10 in the p.m.? I like the nite.

"Give Me the Night." [George Benson]

[Mariana]

65. We didn't make it up, you know.

Gil has told us about his fan club/cheering squad. We learned about it directly from him:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218270285#post159

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218263189#post20

So, when Gil posts, we are put in the position to wonder whether he wishes to discuss a topic in good faith, or whether he is angling for more numerous personal messages asking him to continue doing what he is doing, and praising his efforts here.

[sprinkleeninow]

66. What number please? Post numbah. I caint see where he wrote

fan club or cheering squad.

[Mariana]

81. Gil bragged about receiving numerous personal messages

asking him to continue doing what he is doing, and praising his efforts in this group.

This definition of fan(n) fits the actions of those who send Gil numerous personal messages asking him to continue doing what he is doing, and praising his efforts in this group:

"an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator."

This definition of cheer(v) fits as well:

"to express enthusiastic approval of or support for (something)"

Both definitions courtesy of Merriam-Webster.

[sprinkleeninow]

84. It was merely interpretated as that. (no text)

[Mariana]

89. We all interpretate things, don't we?

Whatever you want to call it, it exists. Gil receives numerous personal messages asking him to continue doing what he is doing, and praising his efforts in this group. When he posts here, the question remains: Is he seriously and honestly trying to discuss the topic at hand, or is he performing to elicit more encouragement and praise via numerous personal messages?

[sprinkleeninow]

102. I believe the non atheistic/gnostic believers in the Christian faith

are sincere in their postings.

There's this tension between the two sides and will continue until something eases. Not saying on which side. 🤗

[marylandblue]

109. He may be sincere, but at doing what?

His purpose isn't clear. He keeps saying the same things, getting the same results, then complaining about it. So while he superficially seems to want dialogue, he either is very bad at it or is playing to a different audience.

[sprinkleeninow]

112. Like when a body posts "good news!", it gets shot down, snarkified, pooh-poohed

and thus.

Guillaume has encouraged me from time to time with gems of wisdom.

[Mariana]

114. When a body posts as "good news"

a story that tells us that 82% of religious people are segregating themselves to worship, he shouldn't be surprised that some other people in this group aren't terribly impressed.

Tell me, do you think it's good news that 82% of churchgoers segregate themselves to worship?

[sprinkleeninow]

119. Can't statistics be slanted, skewed, wrong?

Worshippers gravitate toward faith communities of their choosing.

Mb bc they feel a certain style of worship is more attuned to them.

The previous church we communicated in had AA brothers, Brazilian females, and people of other than Caucasian race who were attracted by the Orthodox Faith, embraced it and were received with joy into the Body of Christ.

I was born into into my Faith and know no other.

Mb people of color feel that a more completely AA church community is where they belong and are content.

Sure you're gonna have communities that think they're the chosen ones and are cold or lukewarm to receiving minorities into the fold.
That's an abomination and anathema, but sadly it continues. It's not perfect and never shall be.

[marylandblue]

130. The statistics are what they are, but maybe full integration is impossible

Too many different views on what a church service should be like. Black church services have a different feel than white services, Protestant different than Catholic, Catholic different from Orthodox and so on. If people just sorted themselves based on preferred style/theology without regard to race, how many would end up in segregated churches anyway?

[sprinkleeninow]

135. Full integration at this point or any point for that matter appears most def

highly unlikely. Gone way too far.
Call 1-800-Howz My Eloquence....

[Mariana]

131. Sure, statistics can be slanted, skewed, wrong.

However, Gil believes the numbers in the article posted are correct. No one has argued with him about that, everyone has accepted the information in the article. The difference is one of opinion only. Gil believes the numbers in the article are worthy of celebration. Other posters don't agree with him and think the numbers are pathetic. Gil doesn't believe anyone could honestly have a different opinion than he does, so he attacks anyone who expresses such and bleats about his ridiculous made-up commandment. And so it goes.

[marylandblue]

115. Well this group does have more than it's fair share of snark

Still, you have a group that has a generally negative view of religion, so it shouldn't be surprising that their reactions are negative to supposed "good news" about religion, especially when comes from someone who knows full well that his audience will likely not perceive it as good news.

[sprinkleeninow]

120. I'm fully aware of the 'resistance' in this place.

There's selectivity in the push back of certain posters. [Was that a redundancy?🤔]

Do I need to admit when reading 'some' posts, the sentiments are troubling to my spirit.

Some without the Faith strongly resent plenty of words shared by those in the Faith.

Do I have understanding? Yes. Yes I do.

Call: 1-800-How'm I Doin'.........

[demigoddess]

5. sounds to me like black churches accept white members.

that has always been the case. The other way, not so much. the white churches usually preach racism. experience.

[enid602]

27. Segregated

How many of the whites who aatend segregated churches voted for tRump?

[Voltaire2]

7. Lulzd.

[sprinkleeninow]

58. Guillaume, Mon cher!

Comment débrouillez-vous?
Je suis fan de toi. Beaucoup!
A peace-filled night be yours--
BonBon

[demosincebirth]

60. I've been to many Catholic Churches and

They've all been multiracial. That's more so in the cities

[MineralMan]

64. The small town in California where I grew up had one Catholic Church.

Back in the early 1960s, it used to have two separate masses each Sunday. At 9 AM, a Spanish/Latin mass was held. At 11 AM, an English/Latin mass was held. In each, the homily and other non-Latin parts of the service were delivered in the language of the hour. The two masses had completely different congregations, and the masses were conducted by different priests.

Today, in 2016, it holds more masses than it did before. It's still holding separate masses in Spanish and English, and the congregations are still different. The Hispanic population in that town is now a majority, so there are three masses in Spanish and just two in English. It's like having two different churches in the same building. Here's its Sunday schedule:

Sunday: 7:00 am
Spanish

Sunday: 9:15 am

Sunday: 11:15 am

Sunday: 1:00 pm
Spanish

Sunday: 6:00 pm
Spanish

https://www.parishesonline.com/find/st-francis-of-assisi-roman-catholic-church

[guillaumeb]

73. Would you expect a Spanish speaking congregation to attend an English only mass?

And dose this church have other, shared activities?

[MineralMan]

82. Most of those in my day spoke English and

Spanish. They preferred that the homily and other non-liturgical parts of the service used Spanish. On the other hand, few non-Hispanics in my small town spoke Spanish.

I no longer live there, although family members do. Still, services are provided in both languages. Now, however, the liturgy does not use Latin.

I was not a Catholic, so I can't speak about other activities at that church. Given the general prejudices of that town, though, I doubt that there was much mingling. One church, but two very different congregations.

[Act_of_Reparation]

122. The small town in Connecticut where I grew up had one Catholic church for every immigrant group.

The Italians had their church. The Poles had their church. The Irish had their church. So forth. There were six of them.

[MineralMan]

124. Interesting. I don't suppose my town, pop. 4800, had

enough Catholics in various groups to have separate churches.

[Act_of_Reparation]

125. Bear in mind my town was small by Bo-Wash Corridor standards.

Under 100,000 people.

What's more interesting is these divisions persisted long after the immigration waves had ended. The St Peter's flock, for example, were not Italians from Italy, but second and third generation Italian-Americans.

[MineralMan]

126. Oh, OK. That makes sense.

My tiny town, then, was about 33% Hispanic in the early 60s. Today, its population is up to about 15,000 and it's over 50% Hispanic. My parents and sister still live there, and I visit about once a year.

[sprinkleeninow]

134. You and Connecticut? 🤗 Who knew...

[demosincebirth]

143. Same church, right?

[MineralMan]

145. Yes, same church.

[sprinkleeninow]

68. True.