Religion
Related: About this forumWhat exactly is a soul?
Is it a physical entity? Does it go to heaven/hell in the afterlife?
htuttle
(23,738 posts)The 21 grams experiment refers to a scientific study published in 1907 by Duncan MacDougall, a physician from Haverhill, Massachusetts. MacDougall hypothesized that souls have physical weight, and attempted to measure the mass lost by a human when the soul departed the body. MacDougall attempted to measure the mass change of six patients at the moment of death. One of the six subjects lost three-fourths of an ounce (21.3 grams).
MacDougall stated his experiment would have to be repeated many times before any conclusion could be obtained. The experiment is widely regarded as flawed and unscientific due to the small sample size, the methods used, as well as the fact only one of the six subjects met the hypothesis.[1] The case has been cited as an example of selective reporting. Despite its rejection within the scientific community, MacDougall's experiment popularized the concept that the soul has weight, and specifically that it weighs 21 grams.
The More You Know...
Mariana
(14,861 posts)Does that mean the other five didn't have souls?
Iggo
(47,584 posts)Recumbentbikelab
(1 post)In many religious, philosophical, and mythological traditions, there is a belief in the incorporeal essence of a living being called the soul.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)edhopper
(33,651 posts)to suggest that there is anything about our mind or personality that is seperate from our physical body.
The only real soul is that which was practiced by Mr. James Brown.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)thucythucy
(8,107 posts)mitch96
(13,937 posts)I'm curious if it was just the expelled air coming out after the last breath??? Or did the person just "let go" of some body fluids????
How much does a consciousness weigh? Or for that matter our life force...
m
muriel_volestrangler
(101,403 posts)but the "weight" of your breath probably isn't one of them. When we weigh something in air, we're really weighing it relative to the same volume of air (just as if you weighed something in water, you weigh it relative to that volume of water - it might even float and 'weigh nothing'). The weight of air in our lungs is basically the same as outside (I suppose being more humid, it might be a tiny bit heavier) - you just change the shape of your body to enclose a bit more air when you breath in.
Karadeniz
(22,600 posts)The difference in weight from the live body vs. its corpse can be explained by natural means. I doubt that weight change reflects soul.
The Good News:
The Soul itself cannot at this time be isolated from Mind. Mind, fortunately, has had tons of research delving into it, so its existence as separate and apart from the brain has been shown. I'm sure you've heard of out-of-body experiences and near-death experiences. It's pretty persuasive that people, blind from birth, can describe the colors, objects, movements, etc. "seen" while the brain was incapacitated during surgery or a life-threatening event. To fully understand all that Mind can do in the here and now, from long-distance viewing to affecting the physical world, you should read Your Eternal Self by R. Craig Hogan. To show that Mind transcends death, the book The Afterlife Experiments by Gary E. Schwartz is based upon experiments conducted to scientific standards at the U. of Arizona. Both are on Kindle and there are many, many other books dealing with near-death experiences and transcending death...you can break the bank on Kindle on these two topics alone...but the two I mentioned are a good starting platform.
Since the Mind is eternal, that should prompt curiosity as to reincarnation. Again, there are tons of books about this, but the best starter-offer is Born Again...by Dr. Walter Semkiw. He is continuing the multi-decades work by Dr. Ian Stevenson, now deceased, so any of Dr. Stevenson's books are also very reputable. Just as fascinating are books by Dr. Brian L. Weiss, whose string of credentials is way too long for here. Like most psychiatrists who use hypnosis, he stumbled into past lives; I think Many Lives, Many Masters is the first book he wrote about his sessions.
The Bad News:
It's just about impossible to describe Soul in earthly terms because it only becomes tangible in its native environment.
So...to get closer to your original question....each human possesses Mind. Mind is influenced by two forces, the brain (phenomenally puny) and the Soul (which so far we can only express via Mind). The brain will someday perish, but all its thoughts and emotions will have been recorded on Mind to turn up over and over.
Why don't I simply accept Mind as Soul? Because one afternoon when I was 17, I lay down for a nap and woke up in another reality (and I wasn't near death!) and I experienced Mind and Soul as different entities. So that's my truth, but it's hard for others to accept it. If you can't, just use Mind and Soul interchangeably.
You ask about Soul. Yes, it feels/is completely physical in its natural realm. You can feel its energy, see its light, experience its frequency. It's very physical, but only in the place/dimension where its nature is the real world. There it has substance. Here, not so much. Mind stays with it, but I was able to project my Mind outside of my Soul to see elsewhere and check out the new environment. That's how I know the two are not the same. It is the quality of the Soul which determines how close you can get to the Source (God, Christianity's Father). Mind helps improve the Soul's quality and here on earth the brain can help the Mind with this task.
Christianity sometimes describes the Soul and the Source as light, more often as son and father. If people would get past understanding Christianity at the literal level (which is strange because Jesus indicated that his profound truths were well hidden in parables...and I assure you, they're very well hidden...not at all what a Sunday school class comes up with), they would see that Jesus' teachings are all about the primacy of eternity/Soul over the material world, how to upgrade one's Soul quality in order to escape reincarnation, karma...there's a treasury hidden in the Synoptics that no one knows about!
I don't know that this helps...read the books I suggested.
JimGinPA
(14,811 posts)Welcome to DU!
Thanks for the welcome!
Voltaire2
(13,244 posts)Only by anecdote. Evidence on the other hand clearly demonstrates that brain and mind are one and the same.
gopiscrap
(23,766 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)No. And no.
Next question.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)I totally agree with you. It's a completely made-up, nonsense concept. The only thing it has ever been used for is to control people through fear.
Pretty sad so many, otherwise, intelligent people allow this to happen.
edhopper
(33,651 posts)how do people experience physical pain for all eternity in hell?
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)How does something alleged to be immaterial interact with the material world? Also if something interacts with the physical world it *MUST* leave a trace of that interaction.
We have seen down to sub-atomic particles and out to the edge of the Universe.... yet no evidence for souls.
Can we put this one to rest yet?
edhopper
(33,651 posts)you just aren't looking the right way.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)up my own fundament is the right way?
edhopper
(33,651 posts)"other ways of knowing"
Knowing what, God knows.
Well that didn't work out right... it was >.< ... nt eh
it's hard without the right tone and delivery.
Believe me, it was funny in my head.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)the >.< didn't come out only the "."
Believe me I got your post
edhopper
(33,651 posts)MineralMan
(146,345 posts)MineralMan
(146,345 posts)it lets them avoid thinking about the temporal nature of human existence. If they can believe that their essence will continue to exist after their body dies, they can pretend not to be afraid of death.
However, that trick never really works. Some people face the end of life with fear; others without fear; still others with relief. That's true whether an individual has religious beliefs or not, based on my experience with people in that situation.
Do I have a soul? Well, there is something unique about me that can be identified. It will die with me, though, I'm certain. I may be remembered by some people for some time, but that's about it.
If there is a soul, it is whatever makes us each a unique individual. There's no need for it to continue, nor any reason to believe that it does. We have our time, and then we are no longer present.
Take your time as a lucky coincidence, and make of it what you can. That's my advice to the living. I have no advice for the dead, because they can't hear me. They're gone.
thucythucy
(8,107 posts)I have been in a coma, and I've also recently been under total anesthetic.
In both cases I seem to have simply ceased to exist. I came out of them both as though rising out of complete and utter nothingness.
I found both these experiences quite reassuring. If that's what death is, well, it's nothing. Literally nothing. So it isn't death I fear, so much as dying. Hopefully it will be gentle, not too painful or traumatic a transition from here to not here.
I also had another experience where I woke from a dream about a very dear friend, a former lover, actually. In the dream I was wandering through the ruins of his house, at the top of a hill. Strewn all around the house were scraps of paper on which he'd written his poetry. I thought, "Damn, I never knew Frank was such a good poet!" I asked someone else, scratching through the ruins, "So where's Frank?" Came the answer, "He's gone homesteading."
I woke from the dream and looked at the clock. Two in the morning, give or take.
I woke later in the morning, wrote down the dream (as I used to in those days), went about my day as usual.
That evening Frank's brother called to tell me Frank had died of a drug overdose that morning. The coroner later concluded his death came at around two in the morning.
Don't know what to make of that. Coincidence? I'd never dreamt of him before (or don't remember, anyway). Some way Frank had passed me by, reached out to me on his way from here to not here?
Just one of those odd experiences that has me sometimes wondering if there isn't some aspect to us all that we haven't yet grasped hold of. Something dimly perceived and incorrectly understood, which gets morphed into the varieties of religious experience William James writes about, and is corrupted by the various organized religions.
Keeps me wondering. I think, it's sometimes good to wonder.
What do you think?
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Believers don't have answers. We all know that. Rubbing it in is just mean.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)by looking in a big ol' book that's the problem.
Science people KNOW they don't have THE ANSWER, they just have probable theories.
eh
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)so no and no.