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rug

(82,333 posts)
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 05:45 AM Jun 2012

Egypt Islamists claim presidency, army rules

CAIRO | Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:48am EDT
By Marwa Awad and Yasmine Saleh

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said on Monday its candidate won the country's first free presidential election, but a sweeping legal maneuver overnight by Cairo's military rulers made clear the generals planned to keep control for now.

An election committee source told Reuters that Islamist Mohamed Morsy, a U.S.-educated engineer, was comfortably ahead of former air force general Ahmed Shafik with most of the votes tallied. But the count, which would make him the first civilian leader in 60 years, had yet to be officially finalized.

In any event, however, the new president will be subordinate for some time at least to the military council which last year pushed fellow officer Mubarak aside to appease street protests.

In the latest twist on Egypt's tortuous path from revolution to democracy, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) issued a decree as two days of voting ended on Sunday which set strict limits on the powers of head of state. On the eve of the election, it had already dissolved the Islamist-led parliament.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-egypt-election-idUSBRE85G01U20120618

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dimbear

(6,271 posts)
1. Correlation isn't causation, but the remarkable correlation between Islam
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:27 PM
Jun 2012

and bad government deserves an explanation.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. Actually, the medieval Islamic Golden Age was comparatively good government, all things considered.
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:38 PM
Jun 2012

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
3. Agreed, that has crossed my mind. Someone needs to
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:45 PM
Jun 2012

address the present day with clarity. This argumentum ad explodandum has got to stop.

*I realize that is very shabby Latin. Sounds nice, tho.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
4. That's JK Rowling Latin.
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 06:52 PM
Jun 2012


Regarding islam and government, what has changed in the last 800 years is not necessarily Islam per se but the development of nationalism, colonialism and capitalism. It's all swirling in a stew that is easy to call Islamism. When I see this analysis I try to remember there really is no cheese in head cheese, no matter what they call it.

Igel

(35,309 posts)
5. There were several "golden" periods.
Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
Jun 2012

Almost all had the same features: They resulted shortly after conquest, had strong leaders with a not very strong clerical base, and had a large flow of money or knowledge from other territories.

And all were geographically circumscribed. The main "Golden Age" was in part of the ME. Egypt was a hell-hole, N. Africa bad, and Spain was a disaster. When Spain had it's "Golden Age" it was likewise limited.

All the Golden Ages tended to be scholarly and the minorities nicely under control. If they got out of control, things were bad. And things were only "good" by comparison with some of the worst places in Europe. There were places not so bad in Europe, but they never had "Golden Ages" mostly because nobody felt it was necessary to defend them--and in everybody's interests to continue to have funding and archive research available. (Piss off the British by dissing Ireland? No prob. Piss off the Sultan by dissing Turks? Make sure you do it after you've already retired to Ireland!)

All the Golden Ages ended of their own accord because of factors that were mostly internal. There was usually a three-part demise: society would have settled down comfortably under Islamic rule, the conquest long over and the native populations either restive or assimilated; the imams would gain the upper hand, either enforcing more restrictive Islamic law everywhere or causing more dissent among minorities; revenues from conquered territories plummeted, whether that meant the local coffers running dry, trade routes in danger, or subject territories no longer quite so "subject."

Take Turkey, the Ottomans. It was a great power, then got complacent. It had internal problems that ultimately led to bouts of ethnic cleansing--sometimes the traditional "let's play ethnic chess and move the Cirkassian-pawns to where the Arab-knights are!" Imams made sure that printing showed up in the Ottoman Empire very late, and primarily for religious and state purposes--this was largely true of scholarship in general. It was repressive and nasty--and the tanzimat, the reforms that largely constitute the Ottomans' claim to humaneness, were all but compelled from the outside. The Empire lost territory, and with territory, revenues; and, as its military fell behind and the Brits and French and Russians got the upper hand, it lost control over trade and slave routes.

The Golden Ages usually fell because of internal problems or a continuation of the state of affairs that brought about Islamic domination of a territory. But it's humiliating to admit this, and much easier to claim that some far superior force--who could be ashamed of being beaten by somebody like that--is responsible for your fall from perfection. In so doing, you even get people to accept the assumption--that you had a perfection to fall from--and not dispute it.

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