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27 replies
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= new reply since forum marked as read
Even more, are the ideas of multiple universes, or parallel universes too much for the mind to conceive of?
I believe it is the Hindu system of thought that holds that the universe begins and ends and begins again.
That's a rather interesting way of looking at things that may more closely parallel what modern theoretic physics is suggesting.
I believe it is the Hindu system of thought that holds that the universe begins and ends and begins again.
That's a rather interesting way of looking at things that may more closely parallel what modern theoretic physics is suggesting.
Thank you for pointing this out
According to Hindu schools of thought, The universe we live in is by no means unique...nor is earth or its inhabitants(Humans included). We are but one amongst an infinite types of beings, living in an infinite number of universes. These universes come into existence, and cease to exist.
Furthermore the notion of "god" itself is put into question when one looks at the Hindu worldview. Unlike other world religions, where the creator of the universe is "God" supreme, In Hinduism he/she is so insignificant that he/she is ignored! This might come as a surprise to many who are not used to the Dharmic philosophies(Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism) as other religions always center around some creator god creating this universe and earth/humans in particular.
In Hinduism "godhood" is a 'position" that anyone can achieve..even humans(and they have) by self effort alone. Its like the Presidency...no one can hold it "forever". As even "gods die".
Brahma (Not to be confused with "Brahmin" who are priests, and "Brahman"-the ultimate realty) or rather "Brahmahood" is a post in Hinduism. The holder of the title is a being(human, alien, etc) which has evolved to such an extent that it has the ability to create its own universe. The lifetime of this being(according to Hinduism) is so huge that for us humans it looks immortal...a god. But even it has a lifetime (for example...a rough estimate of 16 billion earth years= 1 Brahma day...and Brahma lives for 100 Brahma years). Because of this the entire notion of "creation" and the "creator god" is not given any importance in Hinduism. This is why Hinduism is also the only major religion without an agreed upon notion of the creation....As Creation loses its importance when there are an infinite universes coming into existence/ceasing to exist even every second.
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
~Rig veda 1500 BCE
This is what Carl Sagan had to say about the Hindu worldview of the universe(s) in his famous documentary.
a few lines from the video
"meanwhile, elsewhere there are an infinite number of other universes..each with its own "god" dreaming the cosmic dream. These great ideas are tempered by another, perhaps still greater . it is said that men may not be the dreams of the gods but rather, the gods are the dreams of men"
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Even though he was from my parent's generation, I grew up watching his documentaries...resulting in an enduring interest in physics/astronomy.
I wish he was alive today 
I remember reading about them in the national geographic, a while back. Just googled more about it. I wish the government spends more in research into the lives of these ancient people of the valley than the pittance it is spending on such activities nowadays
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I am also reminded of the worldviews of the Hopi people, and the Mayans. Interestingly enough the Hopi's also maintain that the universe we live in is not the first one, and definitely not the last. I believe if we look hard enough we will also find similar themes in many old-traditions, not just in Hinduism. I'm certain the Druidic/pagan religions of ancient Europe probably had some similar worldviews, sadly most of their work has been wiped clean for us to know for sure.
I do not know much about the worldview of the latter day saints, thus i went by the stuff in the link you provide. Ill list some of the major differences I can see between the Hindu worldview regarding god/s and that of the Latter Day Saints.
the article linked to states.
Logically and naturally, the ultimate desire of a loving Supreme Being is to help his children enjoy all that he enjoys. For Latter-day Saints, the term "godhood" denotes the attainment of such a state-one of having all divine attributes and doing as God does and being as God is. Such a state is to be enjoyed by all exalted, embodied, intelligent beings (see Deification, Early Christian; Eternal Progression; Exaltation; God; Perfection). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all resurrected and perfected mortals become gods (cf. Gen. 3:22; Matt. 5:48). They will dwell again with God the Father, and live and act like him in endless worlds of happiness, power, love, glory, and knowledge; above all, they will have the power of procreating endless lives. Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ attained godhood (see Christology) and that he marked the path and led the way for others likewise to become exalted divine beings by following him (cf. John 14:3).
The LDS conception of godhood is central to their understanding of why God creates and acts. Latter-day Saints believe in a God who "cleaves unto" other eternal intelligences (D&C 88:40) and wants to make them happy. Joseph Smith observed, "Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God" (TPJS, p. 255). Happiness is the goal of existence, and God created this world in order to promote happiness (2 Ne. 2:25). Because he loves the world, he gave his "only begotten Son" (John 3:16).
From What I see
1 The god of the latter day saints is the creator of humans
Not so in Hinduism
2 "Happiness is the object and design of our existence" for the latter day saints
Not so in Hinduism, where both happiness and sorrow are both equal in the sense that they are transitory and should be transcended
3 Godhood is the higest post/position one can read in the LDS
Godhood is something that has to be transcended in Hinduism, because god's themselves are as subject to laws of the universe as humans are....its just that they live a billion times longer than us they seem as "gods" as we might seem as "gods" to ants.
I also believe a lot of misunderstanding arises from the translation of Hindu terms into English.
What most western books title as "gods" of Hinduism are called "Devas" in Hinduism.(btw Devas has the same etymology as Deus in Latin).
These Devas are considered beings..just like humans..but highly advanced beings. Then there are the Asuras...the Nagas...the Kuveras..the Rakshshas...the list goes on. Interestingly enough most books only associated the Devas with "gods". I and most Hindus chuckle every-time we read some English book on Hinduism that states such stuff like "Indra, the king of the gods". Indra is a joke...I can think of at least 4 or 5 humans who had defeated Indra in Single combat and had him begging for their mercy at their feet(in mythology/epics of course)....oh and I dont even want to bring in the Asuras and the Rakshshas...they usually kicked Indra's and his host's(so called "gods"
ass in the majority of battles.
The only way to make sense of all the "gods" in Hinduism is to think of them as different alien races, living in different planets. In fact this is exactly what the Hindu epics tell us...that each of these races live in their own planet(s). For example Indra lives in Indraloka = Indra's world. Loka= world. Nagaloka = naga's world and so on. Some of them visit/live in earth as well. It is not uncommon to find epic tales of humans flying to different planets in Vimanas(to this day, the Indian word for Aircraft is Vimana) and meet these different people/races/beings. Certain beings were known to specialize in certain skills/knowledge...thus the Heroes of Hindu epics sometimes make this journey..to gain special weapons/knowledge from these beings...sometimes these beings ask the heroes to help them fight their enemies and so on. There are also stories of Orbital cities...Vimanas that fight each other in the sky and space...and even wars between worlds. Does this sound like science fiction? yes...in fact the fans of the science fiction genre will be totally at home reading the ancient Hindu epics.
So are they gods? depends on how one defines gods. maybe they are, as some have the ability to create universes, but always there is the fact that they too are limited, and they too have to be transcended. Shiva himself is said to be the first yogi. he is always depicted as one who lives in the forests..a hippie before being hippie was fashionable...and the "gods"
i mean the Devas) dare not anger him. the same goes for human yogis too...as in the epics the gods are always afraid of such humans and were always at their service.
In my language the word used to describe "god ( known as "that which is everything"
is "kadavul"
kadavul = transcendent.
interestingly enough, the Christians amongst us who speak our language use the word "aandavar" to refer to their god
aandavar = he who rules us(following the "king" model of the Judeo-Xian tradition)
^^ as you can note, the choice of these two words describes the main difference between the notions of god amongst these two religions.
PS: one of the Science fiction books i read a while back had a discussion on the notion of what consists of godhood. In this book advanced humans have called themselves Hindu "gods" and live in a orbital city above a planet they have colonized.
They sat in silence for a time.
"Can you spare me a cigarette?"
Yama passed him one, lit it.
"What's First Base like these days?"
"You'll hardly recognize the place," said Yama. "If everyone in it were to die at this moment, it would still be perfect ten thousand years from now. The flowers would still bloom and the music would play and the fountains would ripple the length of the spectrum. Warm meals would still be laid within the garden pavilions. The City itself is immortal."
"A fitting abode, I suppose, for those who call themselves gods."
"Call themselves?" asked Yama. "You are wrong, Sam, Godhood is more than a name. It is a condition of being. One does not achieve it merely by being immortal, for even the lowliest laborer in the fields may achieve continuity of existence. Is it then the conditioning of an Aspect? No. Any competent hypnotist can play games with the self-image. Is it the raising up of an Attribute? Of course not. I can design machines more powerful and more accurate than any faculty a man may cultivate. Being a god is the quality of being able to be yourself to such an extent that your passions correspond with the forces of the universe, so that those who look upon you know this without hearing your name spoken. Some ancient poet said that the world is full of echoes and correspondences. Another wrote a long poem of an inferno, wherein each man suffered a torture which coincided in nature with those forces which had ruled his life. Being a god is being able to recognize within one's self these things that are important, and then to strike the single note that brings them into alignment with everything else that exists. Then, beyond morals or logic or esthetics, one is wind or fire, the sea, the mountains, rain, the sun or the stars, the flight of an arrow, the end of a day, the clasp of love. One rules through one's ruling passions. Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
~ from "lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny
In my language, which has shamanic roots that can still be heard, serpents etc. have central place in the oral epic traditions and mythology (something to do with shamanic initiations ), but the "kundalini" is simply called to rise by the word meaning also "nature/creation", making no distinction.
on anything, not on the idea of causality that both Big Band theory/hypothesis and Creator God or any other reductionistic idea of First Mover is based on. Sorry, you can preach all you want and get personal others don't buy your belief system, but philosophical, scientific etc. scepticism suits my tastes better.
There are many other ideas that appear to me logically and empirically more consistent and are philosophically "deeper", such as codependent causation, quantum jumps of any and all size rewriting both past and future, etc. but I wouldn't say I rely on them either. I just entertain them...
one can choose to be ignorant if one wishes. And that's a lot to say about freedom of will...
PS: this is latest comment on inflation cosmology that I have read:
http://matpitka.blogspot.com/2011/11/eternal-inflation-and-tgd.html#comments
