A Dismayed Democrat Reads the Bible

[rug]

Talking to theologian Marcus Borg about biblical errancy, the spiritual body, and the scandal in American Christianity

December 27, 2012
By Candace Chellew-Hodge
Candace Chellew-Hodge is the founder/editor of Whosoever: An Online Magazine for GLBT Christians and currently serves as the pastor of Jubilee! Circle in Columbia, S.C. She is also the author of Bulletproof Faith: A Spiritual Survival Guide for Gay and Lesbian Christians (Jossey-Bass, 2008)



Evolution of the Word: The New Testament in the Order the Books Were Written
by Marcus Borg
HarperOne , 2012

Marcus Borg has a formidable reputation in the world of Jesus scholarship, but if you ask him to describe himself he’s more likely to say he is “a dismayed Democrat”—the result of years of surveying the militaristic, individualistic attitudes of so many of his fellow American Christians.

Borg, a professor at Oregon State until his retirement in 2007, has written twenty books, mainly aimed at debunking fundamentalist ideas about Jesus and God. His newest book Evolution of the Word, is a chronological reading of the New Testament. When read in historical order, Borg argues, the Bible reveals itself as having been shaped by the community that engendered it, rather than the other way around.

I had a chance to speak with Borg recently about his book, and its provocative thesis.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/books/atheologies/6733/a_dismayed_democrat_reads_the_bible_/

[jody]

1. Interesting. Re Christianity, the closest writings to pure Jesus thoughts are perhaps those verses

in a Red-Letter edition of the Gospels.

If a simple basis for Christan doctrine cannot be derived from those sayings, some of which are disputed, then I fail to see their efficacy.

[sanatanadharma]

3. God, I'd love a more completely filled-in, red letter source book of Jesus' sayings...

...as I am am convinced of Jesus' years in India seasoned in Vedanta.
Imagine:
"I say on to you, had you but faith you could move mountains", adding "and the knowledge to know why the mountain is there and not need to move it"
"When thine eye be single..."

One "I" alone, the Atman. I_AM, of which Moses was told, "I Am That I Am"

[jody]

5. Wonderful thought! One of my graduate students gave me his Bhagavad Gita given to him as a youngster

in India by his parents.

What an act of kindness.

By the time I got around to reading it, he had finished his thesis and and I missed an opportunity to let us switch roles and he become the professor and I the student.

I never made the connection you shared with your post.

Has someone perhaps already taken the most important statements attributed to Jesus in the Gospels and associated them with the most important statements from the Bhagavad Gita or other books?

If you know of such a report please share with me.

Thanks jody

[sanatanadharma]

6. namaste jody, my humbled pranams...

...laying these offerings at the feet of a one whom I struggle in other path-ings.
The results of "jesus" and "vedanta" in google. This quote relating quite directly to these forum DU-ings.

"4. For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain,
“Move from here to there,” and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. (Mt. 17:20; cf. Lk. 17:6)

A distinction made by Swami Vivekananda seems apt here: “Faith is not belief, it is the grasp on the Ultimate, an illumination” (Collected Works, vol. VII, p. 60; hereafter abbreviated as CW).
And according to Sri Sankaracarya, faith is the means by which Reality is perceived (Vivekacudamani 25)."

from http://www.vedantaiowa.org/teachings/Joseph_Upanishads/Jesus_Upan.pdf

On the subject of Saint Issa of Ladahk
http://mahavedanta.multiply.com/journal/item/35/The-Lost-Years-of-Jesus-in-Tibet-India?&show_interstitial=1&u=%2Fjournal%2Fitem

The quote below from this link
http://sfvedanta.org/monthly-reading/what-jesus-of-nazareth-said/

"What Jesus of Nazareth Said
He had no other idea of himself, no other ... he was Spirit. ... unfettered, unbound Spirit. ... with his marvelous vision, had found that every man and woman, ...(is) the embodiment of the same undying Spirit ...the one work of his whole life was calling upon them to realize their own spiritual nature.
Give up, he says, these superstitious dreams that you are ...Give up the idea that you ... Within you is something that can never ...be troubled, ...sons and daughters of God, Immortal Spirit. ‘Know ye,’ he declared, ‘the kingdom of heaven is within you.’ ‘I and my Father are one.’
...stand up and say, ‘I am the son of God, ...find in your heart of hearts: ‘I and my Father are one.’
(Jesus) never talks of this world and of this life. He has nothing to do with it, except that he wants to get hold of the world as it is, give it a push, ...until the whole world has reached to the effulgent light of God, until everyone has realized his spiritual nature,....

—Swami Vivekananda
Christ, the Messenger"

More:
http://www.vedanticshorespress.com/feature%20articles/feature-article-Christ-and-Vedanta.htm
http://americanvedantist.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Vol_10_No_2.pdf

ON EDIT adding a Christian refutation of Jesus Vedic link
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/rfsm-guru.html

[jody]

8. Thanks so much for sharing. Three decades ago I started out to find a common denominator among the

world's religions. A base upon which those who seek peace might unify behind as a force.

After reading about, I won't dignify my efforts by used the verb study, all the great religions and essentially given up I saw a poster.

Eureka, the answer was there all along along but I had not recognized it. The common denominator that I had sought was

After sharing my good fortune with all who would listen to a new believer to the oldest rule of morality, I concentrated on dozen or so PhDs in philosophy and related fields particularly those who identified themselves as atheists.

Much to my surprise, they agreed that was a common denominator which eventually led me to restudy and reconsider the Humanist Manifesto, latest at http://www.americanhumanist.org/Humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

One's opinions are just that, nothing more or less, but IMO Humanist Manifesto III's statements "Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness." . . . "Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views." are close enough to qualify as modern day statements of the Golden Rule.

Of course the complement to the Golden Rule is "Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you."

Peace embrace you and yours. jody

[dimbear]

2. If you would care to repeat that 'reading in order' experiment, start with the Gospel of Signs,

then move on to 'Q.'

[Flabbergasted]

4. Interesting interview. Well thought out. The title of the article is kind

of poor but otherwise...

[okasha]

7. Good article.

Thanks for posting it.

[jody]

9. rug as I explained in #8, why don't more scholars write about things that unite religion than nearly

anything that might dis-unites us?

After a long life I no longer worry about biblical errancy for one simple reason, the parable attributed to Jesus in Matthew 25:31.

It tells of God's judge returning to sit on a throne "And before him shall be gathered all nations" and they are judged on their deeds, i.e. "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."

If there is a Heaven and Hell and a God, then I take the above as the authoritarian statement on who goes where.

If there is no Heaven or Hell, I agree with the Humanist Manifesto that doing those same deeds are best for humanity.

[rug]

10. Got me.

The Golden Rule you posted is a good start. It applies whether one believes there is another life or not.

Happy New Year!