Virginia Women Ordained As Catholic Priests Against The Will Of The Church

[cbayer]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/virginia-women-ordained-catholic-priests_n_3497256.html

By Will Wrigley
Posted: 06/25/2013 2:39 pm EDT | Updated: 06/25/2013 2:39 pm EDT

When your religion says you cannot do something because of your gender, do it anyway.

At least that is what five Catholic women in Falls Church, Va. did on Saturday when they were ordained as priests and deacons -- against the rules of the Roman Catholic church that sees ordaining women as heresy -- according to WJLA.

"In the theologically grounded tradition the priesthood passes through man. The woman has another function in Christianity," Pope Francis wrote in his first book, "On Heaven and Earth." But that didn't stop women like Joleane Presley of Manassas from joining fellow female Catholics at the First Christian Church to be ordained, just like men.

Presley and the other ordained women are part of the growing Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests, a movement within the Catholic church that espouses "full equality for all within the Church as a matter of justice and faithfulness to the Gospel," and in order to do so, oversees the ordination of female priests, deacons and bishops.

more at link, including video

[skepticscott]

1. That's so cute

But they can call themselves Roman Catholic "priests" until they turn blue, and it still won't make them Roman Catholic priests. Why they feel the need to go through this silly charade is a mystery (or is that a MysterY?), and frankly a little sad, too.

[EvilAL]

11. There's a woman here that is 'ordained'

but she can't do anything but hand the priest stuff, claims it as a victory. Maybe she is right, she gets to be up there, but she can't do any ceremonies or fuck all, it's a start? I don't fuckin know, it's just weird.

[okasha]

2. Good for them.

This is exactly how the change began in the Episcopal Church.

Same do-it-anyway tactic, same misogynist blowback, same eventual change.

[cbayer]

3. Agree. My hat is off to them.

[skepticscott]

4. Ah, yes..the old change-from-within thingie

That's worked like a charm to change fundamental doctrine in the RCC for centuries.

[trotsky]

6. Nuns on the bus!

The church really responded to them!

[trotsky]

5. Congratulations to all involved.

They've just ex-communicated themselves by their actions.

Now if they would take their talents to a more tolerant, welcoming church, they'd have a more serious impact on the institution that desperately needs to change.

[dimbear]

7. It's interesting how it spreads. Not just the women, but those who dared to offer them

equality. Out automatically. Of course it sounds more impressive in the secret language of God.

[trotsky]

8. Ordain a woman, you're out.

Rape some children, you get protected and relocated.

Cover up the rapes of untold numbers of children, get a free trip to Italy and protection from prosecution for your crimes for the rest of your life.

Witness the Mystery of the holy church.

[Goblinmonger]

9. She's not a priest.

It's a nice stunt and all, but it won't change the RCC one iota.

Now if they went and formed their own church. Or joined one that already existed that fit their views.

[skepticscott]

10. They won't do that, because

they want to be priests in THE Catholic Church. The irony of course being that the refusal to ordain women is one of the things that makes it THE Catholic Church, and if that changed, it would no longer be the Catholic Church that they're so enamored with.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. Pointless stunt

It has as much relevance as if I had a friend "swear me in" and then claim I'm now the President.

If these women want to be priests, then they ought to leave the RCC behind and join a non-discriminatory denomination (like maybe the one of the church that hosted this for example.)

[cbayer]

13. I disagree. When 59% of the members of an organizations support a major change,

I consider those that openly challenge the status quo to push for that change heroes.

[Goblinmonger]

14. But the % is pointless

The RCC is not a democratic organization. The hierarchy is designed to not allow for change from within. Those that pick the new leader are chosen by the old leader.

[trotsky]

15. And yet the irony is...

if those 59% went and joined the Episcopal Church - a church that shares so much with the RCC except for its archaic anti-progressive stances - the RCC would have no choice but to change immediately, or collapse.

Instead, by remaining in the RCC and giving their time and money to it, they are helping strengthen the institution that they are trying to change. How's that been working out so far? The new guy treats women and homosexuals the same way the last one did. And the one before that. And the one before that...

[okasha]

53. Contrary to the fulminations of the posters

whose knees hit their front teeth every time the Catholic Church is mentioned, these women should not leave the RCC.

What needs to happen instead is that the 59% of Catholics who support the ordination of women need to form congregations and invite the women priests to be their pastors. That would get the hierarchy's attention real fast while encouraging more women to answer the call to ordination.

[cbayer]

54. I agree. I think there is a method for forcing the issue and your plan sounds just right.

It's rather Dan Quixote-ish to think that the RCC will actually be taken down.

But change can happen, imo and my hat is off to those trying to do it.

[ButterflyBlood]

55. Your proposal is basically schism

The Roman Catholic hierarchy would never recognize these congregations or new churches as Catholic, taking them out of communion with the Vatican, and making them something else.

There is an "Independent Catholic" church near me (The closest "Catholic" church of any type in fact, I live in the type of neighborhood where ranked by how numerous they are the ranking would probably be: 1-open homosexuals, 2-Republicans, 3-white Catholics) that has married and female priests, but they don't claim to be Roman Catholic or part of the same church as the Vatican. I don't think the hierarchy really gives a shit about this church or is too bothered, considering that they're just a drop in the bucket out there. Still I'll give them credit for actually splitting and not just making meaningless noise. If these women want to go found a church good for them. But it's not going to be a Roman Catholic church.

[okasha]

16. Pointless comment.

n/t

[skepticscott]

17. Sorry, it was right on target

Your rather lame attempt at dismissal notwithstanding. These women are "ordained" only in their own minds, and not in any way that is meaningful, or that should be meaningful to them.

As I said, pretty sad.

[trotsky]

18. Reminds me of the wacky right anti-government loons in a way.

Hoisting up their own flag on their property, declaring themselves an independent state, refusing to get their vehicle licensed, etc.

I'm sure they think their actions are special and meaningful, and their fellow nutjobs cheer them on, but in the end they are still in the USA and so is their land and they're still subject to all the same laws.

[cbayer]

19. Yes, we as progressive/liberal activists should never support those who

are challenging hierarchies from within.

[okasha]

20. You mean we shouldn't support

the "cute" little "nutjobs" and "loons" who are pushing for reform in the RCC?

A new low for sexism on DU.

[Goblinmonger]

22. ...............

or perhaps

[cbayer]

24. Silly girls. Don't they know their place?

[trotsky]

26. How pathetic and low. I expect such from okasha, but you?

Those of us commenting on the futility of this act aren't demeaning the women at all. We have suggested they truly empower themselves and LEAVE THE ROTTEN FUCKING SEXIST CHURCH that made it necessary to do this stunt in the first place.

Disgraceful and dishonest, cbayer. You should be above this.

[okasha]

47. Apparently not.

And the rest of us wimminz just need to accept that "cute" is the highest praise a man can offer to women struggling for equality. That and comparing them to "nutjob" and "wacko" right wing secessionists.

[skepticscott]

48. I could call them deluded and misguided

for restricting their desire to be ordained to an organization that would not longer resemble the organization they want to be ordained by if it DID ordain them. But I won't. I'll limit myself to being amused by this rather silly and uselss stunt, and point out that there are plenty of churches where they could fulfill a desire to use their gifts as true members of the clergy, if only they had the courage.

Your trying to make this a sexist issue, in the face of the true and fundamental sexism practiced by the RCC basically forever, is really rich. But about what I'd expect from you any more.

[trotsky]

25. You are correct, supporting a sexist institution like the RCC is indefensible.

You should stop doing it.

[skepticscott]

33. Can you really post this kind

of intellectually dishonest crap with a straight face? And do you think anyone swallows it, other than...well, you know.

[Goblinmonger]

21. Support tilting at windmills?

If those 60% that you claim left the RCC and stopped giving it their time and money, the RCC would crumble. That is the ONLY way that hierarchy will meaningfully change.

[trotsky]

23. What, exactly, is the challenge?

The women aren't actually priests and will not be recognized as such by the hierarchy.

In fact, as I pointed out, they have officially ex-communicated themselves with this act. Why not leave the church entirely and find one that embraces the same principles they do?

More importantly, why are the people pointing this out so worthy of being attacked by you and others?

[hrmjustin]

27. Good for these women for stirring the pot!

There are many denominations that ordain women like my church does.

[cbayer]

28. Agree and most of those denominations didn't have them for a long time.

Change can happen, even within the RCC.

[hrmjustin]

29. Yes and some in this thread fail to see that.

[skepticscott]

31. Please, tell us how many times

in the 20th century the Catholic Church changed fundamental doctrine because enough members wanted them to. Or the 19th. Or the 18th. Then tell us again what we "fail to see"

[hrmjustin]

34. So they should shut up be silent?

In my denomination Bishops decided to go ahead and ordain women to show the national church it can be done and a few years later the national church followed suit.

[skepticscott]

37. Where did I say they should "shut up and be silent"?

You know perfectly well that's not what I said, not what I meant and not what I advocate, so I'm baffled why you would even inject that idea into the conversation. Care to explain?

[hrmjustin]

39. Your response to me seemed to indicate like they are wasting their time.

If I am wrong I am sorry but that is how you came off to me.

[skepticscott]

41. So because I think they're wasting their time with this ONE particular empty gesture

you claim I'm advocating that they "shut up and be silent" about the whole thing, forever? Unbelievable.

There are all kinds of ways to send a message, in case you hadn't noticed.

[hrmjustin]

42. Figure of speech. Sorry if I implied that you meant actually shut up and take it.

I meant should they not bother getting ordained.

[trotsky]

45. I think they absolutely should get ordained, if that is what they want.

But they'll have to leave the Catholic Church to do so, because they are not in any way ordained right now. They should join a church that embraces everyone.

[hrmjustin]

46. Yeah I think I misinterpeted Skeptiscotts comments.

[trotsky]

32. Do you think the people in this thread who fail to see it are sexist? n/t

[hrmjustin]

35. No absolutely not, I do not see you or anyone here as sexist.

[trotsky]

43. Thank you.

I hope that others making such an unfounded and insulting accusation are appropriately ashamed.

Though I certainly would never expect an apology.

[hrmjustin]

44. Welcome!

[skepticscott]

30. And how many of those denominations

Have democratic assemblies where people chosen from the membership have a vote on church policies?

That would be...all of them. And the RCC is not one such. So what was your point again?

[hrmjustin]

36. The Church made changes in second Vatican Council that nobody thought they would. Things Change!

It may take another hundred years but people still need to raise hell.

[skepticscott]

38. And which of those changes involved fundamental doctrine?

Answer: None.

Try again, and this time address the question that was really asked, instead of more lame deflection.

[hrmjustin]

40. The Roman Catholic Church does not have a history of changing doctrine due to popular demand.

Y&es you got me on that but it does not mean it won't happen.

[skepticscott]

49. Yes, and gold nuggets

could start popping out of my navel tomorrow. I don't have a history of it, but that doesn't mean it won't happen, right?

[hrmjustin]

50. So what should they do in your opinion?

[skepticscott]

51. Wow, so you only now get around to asking that?

It depends on what they really want, which is unclear, since even they don't seem to be sure.

[ButterflyBlood]

52. and these womeb should just join one of those denominations

Then their ordination will actually be recognized.