Can an Atheist Church Make Nonbelievers Nicer?

[rug]

By Harry Cheadle
4 hours ago

I became an atheist because I wanted to stay home on Sundays. Sure, later I read about a bunch of what I think are pretty good reasons to not believe in God and came to agree with them, but when I was 11 or 12 or whatever it was, I mainly wanted a trump card to play in my arguments with my mom over my getting dragged away from video games and comics to church. There was nothing worse than sitting for what felt like years in the pews while the hymns and sermon went on, unless it was attending the Sunday school, where the teachers and kids spoke a strange, Jesus-centric language I didn’t understand. So I said I didn’t believe in God, and eventually I got out of going to church.

Lately, I’ve been wondering if I missed out on anything by not attending services. I’m not really worried about the lack of God in my life, since God doesn’t exist. But it’s possible that by skipping church, I was leaving behind a community and a support network I could have had. Since I’m an atheist, I’ll base this claim on data: studies have shown that those who go to church are happier, more optimistic, and healthier than others; attending religious services helps kids fight depression and by some (admittedly biased) accounts makes people more charitable. Obviously most atheists won’t have a very good time gathering at a church or synagogue or temple where everyone is devoted to praising and beseeching an imaginary being, but if you believe these studies, they could do with attending something like church.

A lot of people have been thinking along those lines, and the result has been a flowering of what for lack of a better term we can call atheist “churches.” There’s one in Baton Rouge, Louisiana headed by former Pentecostal preacher Jerry DeWitt, one founded by Korey Peters in Calgary, Canada, and—maybe most famously—the Sunday Assemblies run by comedians Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans in the UK.

The Sunday Assemblies, which started in January with the let's-all-get-along motto of “live better, help often, wonder more,” have been growing like crazy in the atheist-friendly environs of Great Britain, so like many an evangelizer before him, Sanderson recently took his act on the road, and brought it to the US. This past Sunday marked the first-ever event the group threw in America, a get-together in the back of Tobacco Road, a bikini bar in Midtown Manhattan.

http://www.vice.com/read/can-an-atheist-church-make-nonbelievers-nicer

A service:

[Trajan]

1. And ....

Have they stopped beating their wives ??? ....

[rug]

2. Got me, but they're more cautious about what they do in elevators.

[Dawson Leery]

3. Church has trained Evangelicals to be mean.

[LostOne4Ever]

4. Since when

Since when has forcing yourself to endure something you find tedious ever made ANYONE nicer? I would say it would make you cranky, angry, annoyed, irritable, and so on.

The people who liked that sort of thing before hand might get alot of comfort out of this sort of service, and I support them having these sort of events; but they are already from that background so they would not become "nicer"

Which brings me to my point. This story would be fine if not for the fact that once again I find potshots at anti-theists and promoting the stereotype that atheists are not nice! Yeah there are some anti-theist who are complete buttholes, but that is true of every group. There are some groups that exhibit this more than others, but I doubt this is completely true for any of them....unless we are talking about assholes anonymous

If someone is being a jerk or you want to make a point on civility then call the jerks themselves out on it, there is no need for these generalizations. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, so its seems like most atheists are jerks, but they do not represent either atheists or anti-theist as a whole. Neither group has a "you must be this arrogant to join" requirements.

The author talks as if feeling that religion is overall a bad influence or arguing against the idea of god are bad in and of them-selves. That is no more a bad thing than a theist feeling that religion is an overall good influence on society and arguing for the existence of their god(s) of choice! Its when one side or the other disrespects the other side that things get ugly.

Further, by suggesting that church will make atheists nicer the author is furthering the stereotype that we are all angry assholes who go around insulting others. He has research on the benefits of these type of social events then bring that up, dont further an already untrue stereotype. It really feels like the author is bring these things up just to score brownie points with readers. Im not an anti-theist but even I get annoyed when people do this.

One does not need church to be nice, all one needs are manners and respect for one another. This is true for everyone. Its true for theists, atheists, AND anti-theists.

[rug]

5. Nice post.

[skepticscott]

6. The author needed clicks

Last edited Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

and figured a shit-stirring headline was the best way to do that. A favorite tactic of a lot of obscure "atheist-buts" on the Internet.

And the irony of it is that the stuff he wrote would get him condemned on this board as a bigot, a meanie and a broad-brusher. So I guess it ain't working for him.

[LostOne4Ever]

9. Pretty much

He could have made the same overall point without the comments about atheists being angry or the shots at anti-theists. They only serve to distract and divide.

If you want to be inclusive there is no need to even bring up the divisions that divide us.

[cbayer]

7. Do you feel the same about anti-atheists?

I don't like either anti-theists or anti-antheists. I see no point in being "against" a whole based solely on what they believe or don't believe about the existence of a god. OTOH, I think that when those beliefs (or lack of beliefs) are used to trample on the rights of others, there is cause to stand to up to them.

[LostOne4Ever]

8. Yes I feel the same about anti-theists

And agree completely with you when you say:

I think that when those beliefs (or lack of beliefs) are used to trample on the rights of others, there is cause to stand to up to them.

Both when theists or atheists start casting blanket generalizations on one another it should be opposed, and both sides should discuss issues with each other politely. I know there are MANY anti-theist who are rude and insulting. And there are MANY theists who are rude and insulting.

There are jerks in every group. We should call them out individually and not assume they speak for the entire group.

[cbayer]

10. I agree that there are jerks in every group.

Also agree that not assuming they speak for the entire group is really important.

I think that is why some atheists who are decidedly not anti-theists make it a point to distinguish themselves as being different and not represented by some of the more vocal anti-theists.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. That is fine

But they are falling into the very trap they wish to avoid by casting these wide generalizations.

Im not an anti-theist, so I make a note to say that I don't believe that religion overall is a bad thing. That is completely different from me saying that all anti-theists are jerks. It would be like a liberal christian attacking evangelicals because some evangelicals choose to be jerks. Of course there are bad evangelicals, but there are good ones too.

The author could have made his point without bringing that up or furthering the stereotype that atheists are mean and arrogant.

Again, it feels like the author is trying to earn brownie points by saying "Look at me, I'm not mean and nasty like those "other" atheist."

[cbayer]

12. I didn't read it that way, but I'm pretty defensive when it comes to anti-theists and anti-atheists

in general. I tend to agree with you wholeheartedly about generalizing though.

I don't think atheists are mean and arrogant at all. That hasn't been my experience and what data there is doesn't support it.

My experience with anti-theists, which has been mostly confined to the most public/vocal and to some on this site, has been altogether different, though. While I couldn't and shouldn't generalize, I can see why your run of the mill atheist would want to distance themselves.

[LostOne4Ever]

13. I understand

And again I have no problem with people distancing themselves from something they don't agree with; but, I don't want to fall into the same traps as those with whom I disagree with. One of my favorite quotes:

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Friedrich Nietzsche[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

I try to remember that everyone is human, have at their hearts the best of intentions, and to be understanding. I fail at that alot, especially when it comes to conservatives trying to argue against gay marriage, but I try.

Thanks for the great and civil discussion as usual!

[cbayer]

14. Love that quote.

I also try to remember that each individual is a fallible being who has come to the place they are because of their personal experiences and beliefs. I also fail a lot.

It's great talking with you LostOne4Ever (mind if I call you LOE?).

You are always civil and thoughtful, even when we disagree.

[LostOne4Ever]

15. You may call me whatever you like

Just make sure you call me in time for dinner

LOE or just "Lost" or anything of that nature is perfectly fine. I almost always use some sort of theme revolving around the word "lost" on all websites I visit. I have no sense of direction what so ever >.>

I got lost in my hometown once when I first started driving....and the streets are alphabetically and numerically ordered~!



Anyway, I agree, it is always a pleasure to talk with you as well. I find that you are very open-minded and provide very thoughtful conversation. I look forward to our future discussions.

I love it when people come together and show that even the heaviest of subject can be discussed with civility and respect! No matter their beliefs!

[cbayer]

16. My better half also has no sense of direction.

Funny story. He came to visit me in a cabin I had rented very early on in our relationship. He tried to exit the place through the closet, not once, not twice but three times. Sometimes I like to play tricks on him. Like when coming of the store to a parking lot, I purposefully walk behind him just to see where he will go. He always strides with great confidence, but generally in the wrong direction. It's hilarious.

The feeling is mutual, lost. I wish there were more of that in this group and less of the squabbling that often dominates the conversation.

[skepticscott]

17. So who can you cite

that has used lack of beliefs to trample on the rights of others?

No one. Gee.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

18. Atheists have never insulted me the way xtians have.

Who has insulted me by telling me I'm a sinner and that I'm going to hell I don't believe the way they do???


Christians.

Original sin is insulting and abusive to everyone. It destroys peoples' will and it destroys self-esteem for NO good reason. A made up fairy tale.
It's about control.

Most people will never have the strength to leave the church.

And they can't understand why their judgmental attitude drives people away.

[raccoon]

23. Can I say Amen to that? nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. Thank you!!

They think they can get away with insulting people in the name of religion. They won't win any friends that way.

Just read George Carlin.

[Gore1FL]

19. I don't know. Can A Christian Church make believer's nicer? n/t

[skepticscott]

20. Ask Fred Phelps nt

[AlbertCat]

21. Do you have a "find stupid crap" ap on your PC or what?

[rug]

22. Yes, I installed it one minute ago.