Four Thoughts From Non-Christians About Christians

[SecularMotion]

Several weeks ago, I wrote a post about how non-Christians perceive Christians. The article was based on an interchange with one non-Christian lady on this blog. I was surprised at the number of responses, including those from a number of non-Christians. I am grateful for all who responded.

A few Christians were concerned that I might be compromising my beliefs and convictions by writing the post. To the contrary, I still hold firmly to the exclusivity of the gospel and the mandate to evangelize. But, while I am convicted about the never-changing message of the gospel, I am concerned how we messengers sometimes treat others who don't believe as we do.

For now, I have provided four examples of what non-Christians are asking of Christians. They were all comments at different points on my blog. Each section represents a different non-Christian.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/four-thoughts-from-non-christians-about-christians-101439/

[libodem]

1. Respect

Respect. Respect. It goes a long way. Sometimes people can find some common ground. My dad loved to invite believers, who knocked on our door, in for a discussion. He loved a lively discussion. Heck, he loved a good argument.

[cbayer]

2. Really good article from a very unlikely source.

That's good advice for all groups, not just christians, but much of it is particularly good for those who feel the need to proselytize.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. First of all, they insult my basic human dignity.

By ascribing to me (and anyone else) sins that we DID NOT COMMIT, because they believe in a fairy tale of Adam and Eve that DID NOT HAPPEN.

Insulting me by telling me this, and therefore, that is why I need Jesus.

Which is an unnecessary and imaginary solution to an imaginary problem. Original sin was added as doctrine by Augustine of Hippo. Further, God knows who is saved and who is not, thanks to predestination. So why bother to be a good person?

We have all done things that were wrong. Most people know they have done wrong. So don't burden me psychologically and make me feel guilty just for being born. Don't insult my human dignity by demeaning me from the pulpit. Demeaning me and everyone else who goes to church and unfortunately tolerates that system of shame, guilt and illogical dysfunction.

And the next assumption of xtians is that if you were a xtian and left, because you prayed your ass off and nothing got better, then they insult you some more. Their explanation: You didn't have enough faith. So it's YOUR fault nothing changed, not that their belief system is imaginary crap that they've talked themselves into believing, courtesy of their peer group.

So whatever happens, it's my fault for not believing their arbitrary rules.

So they can feel superior to a heathen, because they are smug and have all the answers. And know that no moral code can be better than theirs, even though I can find several with no contradictions in them.

I will never again listen to their soul-crushing, disabling ideas (such as absolute obedience to all authority figures). They ruin lives and sugar coat it with love.

[cbayer]

4. OMG, you have had some seriously negative experiences.

Too bad you have felt the need to generalize them and walk around with all that rage.

I sincerely hope you find some peace around this issue.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

7. Yeah.

It is generalized because it's required xtian doctrine. I didn't generalize it, the xtians do with what they believe. I've explained the twisted logic several times. Xtians at DU deny the plain truth of it. They refuse to state what xtians believe and I don't know why they do that.

I realized what sort of negative life-denying crap that is preached as standard xtian doctrine. It's absolutely not unusual. It's required xtian doctrine. People assume religion always has good motives, and give religious doctrines a pass by assuming they are good, and never examine the basic message.

I find peace by never ever going to a xtian church service. Very simple.
However, I enjoy going in old churches to appreciate the artwork.

[cbayer]

8. I disagree. You generalize it because of the experiences you have had, imo.

That's ok. I and many others don't agree with you, but I don't think that's going to change your POV.

Believers on DU aren't all wrong, they simply disagree with you. I would suggest that if you get the kind of response you describe and don't know why that is, you might want to consider asking instead of preaching.

Words like always and never are pretty absolute and may push open-minded people away. It just sounds so dogmatic.

Not going to a church is fine and I hope you are not being pushed to do so by anyone

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. There are thousands of other churches just like the ones I left.

They preach the same Christian doctrine, without which there is no church: Because they all believe we are all born guilty of original sin because Adam and Eve were disobedient in the Garden of Eden;
and we cannot redeem ourselves in the eyes of God;
therefore, we must accept Jesus as our salvation as he died on the cross for our sins.

Original sin and substitutionary atonement.

That's the starting point for ALL of Xtianity and you know it. Why you and other xtians on this board refuse to accept this plain statement of belief, which all xtian belief flows from, I do not know.

People here keep saying "I'm a xtian but I don't believe X and Y". Well, if you didn't believe in original sin and substitutionary atonement, you would not need to get baptized and accept JC as your lord and savior. No xtian here has told me what they believe, while dodging original sin and substitutionary atonement. I don't understand the reason for such intellectual dishonesty.

I've also been told on this board that people recite creeds in church that they don't believe. I think those are called hypocrites.

[cbayer]

10. I don't disagree. But there are also thousands of churches

that aren't like the ones you left. I don't think they would appeal to you, but they exist and they are different than what you have known.

Again, you use words like ALL, and that's just plain dogmatic. And, interestingly, you assume that I am some kind of "Xtian", which I'm not. But your tendency to lump everyone together that doesn't agree with you says something.

You don't know because you refuse to accept what others are telling you - your "belief" system in what christianity is and isn't doesn't apply to everyone. It's such a one-way way of looking at things.

No one here is obligated to defend their beliefs to you, particularly because you come across as so hostile to whatever they might say.

I hope you find some peace and resolution where this is concerned.... or just leave it alone.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. Who will tell me their definition of a xtian?

I've been to many different kinds of churches.

Nobody here will tell me that a xtian is not defined by the two founding premises that I have stated.

These two premises are the opposite of healthy modern self-esteem.

First of all, modern psychology says: You are all right as you are; secondly, you can improve yourself if you want to. You have the power to change. You don't need to futilely strive for perfection. Less than perfection is good enough.

What does xtianity say? First of all, you are NOT all right as you are; you are a sinner and flawed BEYOND your mistakes you have actually made. Secondly, you are powerless without surrendering to Jesus. You will
never be perfect, but you should try to act like the only perfect person who ever lived, who is Jesus. So you're gonna fail.

I have stated many times what appear to me to be the requirements to be a xtian. Nobody has told me "These are the requirements to be a xtian" and given me a list other than what I have stated. Are you a xtian if you think Jesus was a cool dude?

The media, parents, peers and authority figures tell us we're not good enough. So many people have their will to do anything crushed by criticism their whole lives. Why would you support another institution telling us we're not good enough and we're helpless without Jesus? Why?

[cbayer]

13. Let's start with you

What does the x stand for in xtian and why do you choose to use that term?

What is your interest in having a strict definition? I've seen people on this board tell you that they don't agree with your definition. There have been whole threads about it, which you have dismissed because the definitions given don't match your own.


Would you object if the base criteria was thinking Jesus was a cool dude? If so, why?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

14. X stands for the Greek letter chi.

X with a P over it is "Chi-Rho" for the first two letters of the Greek word for Christ.

Why don't you just answer the question? Why are you misunderstanding the plain meaning of my words? What do you have to gain by that?

[cbayer]

15. So, why do you use the X?

I've answered your question.

There are no requirements for being a christian. Those that identify as christian may define what that means for them in completely individual and unique ways.

Technically, I would say all it means is that they are people who see christ as a religious leader that was sent from god.

It is you that wishes to dogmatically define what it means to be a christian.

What do you have to gain by that?

[hrmjustin]

5. Great read my friend!

[Lordquinton]

6. AKA:How to be a Christian and not be a dick

[cbayer]

11. Good one! Many asked for it when the companion piece was posted.