Why Would a Millennial Become a Priest or a Nun?

[xchrom]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/08/why-would-a-millennial-become-a-priest-or-a-nun/278741/



It's the question that haunts everyone starting a career: What's my calling? Some refer to it as a vocation; others might call it a life purpose. If you're a mid-career professional charged with giving advice to terrified twentysomethings, you might resort to that dreaded graduation speech touchstone, "passion."

There are a handful of young people across the country who have interpreted "calling" in perhaps the most literal way possible: By devoting their lives to the Church. The decision seems radical in the context of common stereotypes about millennials, a generation often accused of lack of discipline, skepticism bordering on snark, preference for a hook-up culture, and only the vaguest spiritual impulses. These millennials defy those clichés, taking lifelong vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to God -- and to the Catholic Church, which, especially in their lifetimes, has been regularly plagued by scandal.

Taking these vows in the Roman Catholic Church can mean many things. Women can choose what's called contemplative life, living in a monastery and, often, remaining cloistered from the world. Others pursue an "apostolic" life, doing work outside of the convent in fields like education and health care and returning home to community life. Men can join a religious order like the Benedictines or the Franciscans, or they can become diocesan priests and lead local churches.

Sister Colleen Gibson, a 27-year-old in the second year of her formal training with the Sisters of St. Joseph in Philadelphia, took the quiz on a website during college to determine what the best path might be for her. "It's like Match.com, but for religious communities," she explained. After identifying some of the aspects of religious life that appealed to her, she clicked a box to send her answers to various orders that might be a fit. "The next morning when I woke up and opened up my inbox, there were 40 emails -- it scared me to death. It's like throwing red meat into a lion's den."

[Glorfindel]

1. Easy way to make a living? Cool outfits?

I always thought I'd be a good archbishop. Having people kiss one's ring and call one "your Grace" would be quite enjoyable.

Seriously, though, I have no idea.

[LuvNewcastle]

2. I think most people want a job that makes them

feel like they're making a difference in the world. It's at least as important as paying the bills. It matters if they feel like their jobs are trivial or even harmful to others. One thing about the Catholic orders is that you'll most likely be placed somewhere in which you'll be serving others. That could even appeal to people who aren't particularly religious.

[cbayer]

3. Some of the statistics are eye opening.

I wonder if we will see the trend reverse because of Francis.

[rug]

4. The new priest in our parish was born in 1980.

He often shares how he came to become a priest. Thoughtful, compelling reasons.

[xchrom]

5. i simply refuse to believe any one was ever born after 1960. nt

[rug]

6. Lol, I refuse to believe anyone had sex before 1950.

[xchrom]

8. i believe that to be a statement of Fact. nt

[okasha]

11. According to Dixon's

Official Rules, sex is hereditary. If your parents never had any, it's likely you won't either.

[MellowDem]

13. Depends on what one considers "thoughtful" and "compelling"...

Anyone that chooses to voluntarily join a bigoted organization and belief system that actively discriminates and hurts others won't have any thoughtful or compelling reasons in my book. The reasoning I find is almost always very bad. Actually, most don't care to think too much about it I'd imagine, or they might end up losing their livelihood.

[rug]

14. As an example, your post is the opposite.

[MellowDem]

15. No, yours represents how many priests and nuns must justify themselves...

if at all. Namely, don't think about it, put your fingers in your ears, and go LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU. Also, never respond to relevant points made. Actually, just ignore them, pretend they aren't there. That's what I see religious people do day in and day out, and the leaders of those organizations have to become experts in self-delusion or selective thinking. Indeed, just make "self-evident" proclamations.

Here is an organization that is explicitly misogynist and homophobic. I said that there is no compelling or good reason to join such an organization, much less be in a leadership role in it. Your response? Well, you didn't have one really, not to that point, just snark. Par for the course really. And you won't have a response to that point. It's in your interest to ignore that point and attack me, because that position is defenseless.

Heck, I'd do the same if I worked for an organization that explicitly discriminates against women and homosexuals and was just doing it for a living, not because I believed that shit.

The only difference is that religious privilege allows people to think there's a big difference between joining one bigoted organization over another, as long as the bigotry comes from a religion, well, people don't question you much about it. But, that's starting to change. Your non-response is the usual.

[rug]

16. Again, a quite reflexive and far from compelling post.

[MellowDem]

17. Again, you fail to respond in any meaningful way

Are you embarrassed you can't have a discussion? Just run away now and stop shaming yourself. It's clear you won't be addressing any points or engaging in discussion. Passive aggressive ad Homs are pretty sad to behold, but then, you find compelling reasons to join leadership positions in misogynist organization.

Don't worry, I get it, there are very good and compelling reasons, you believe, to join bigoted organizations. What those reasons are, well, I doubt you'll actually ever say that, I mean, it's kinda self-evident, doncha know?

[rug]

18. To what? A prediigested regurgitation of talking points?

If you want an actual meaningful discussion on religion, misogyny or any other thing that genuinely concerns you, put down the sullen posturing and state your position in as meaningful and accurate way as you can. I do not suffer fools gladly. I suffer bullshit postings less gladly.

See if you can do that.

[rug]

22. And there you go. QED.

Anyone that uses ad Homs and refuses to engage in discussion is a bully, a bullshitter, and a fool.

That is classic. You probably don't even realize what you're doing it's so ingrained.

No wonder you're not taken seriously. Bookmarking.

[hrmjustin]

7. I thought about going into the clergy but I am not suited for it.

[cbayer]

9. As a young child, I thought I wanted to be a nun, even though I wasn't catholic.

There was something appealing about the structure, the community, the peacefulness of it.

And I think I also saw some films like the Song of Bernadette that were enticing.

I would have never made it, lol

[hrmjustin]

10. Well It is a calling and I told god it was not for me.

I think God has been patient with me on this.

[MellowDem]

12. Not for any good (IMHO) logical reason...

Might as well ask why someone would want to be a member of the KKK, a uniquely bigoted organization itself, except, at least there you still get to have sex, and their philosophy isn't entirely supernatural, you do have some psuedoscience, though a lot of apologetics seems like psuedoscience to me.

Seriously, why would someone young want to throw away their sexuality and young years for an institution based on lies, fear, hate and bigotry, with clear beliefs on women being inferior and homosexuals being "disordered", and with a vengeful god that killed millions in their own holy book, and of which there is zero proof or evidence? It's a good question. What would drive someone to do that?

My guess? For most, childhood indoctrination first and foremost (which is very sad really), tradition, comforting beliefs, and community, all mixed with a big dose of intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance, and a splash of ingnorance (add more if need be). What else? Well, maybe the fear of hell and the opportunity to help others. What's depressing is that religion is not needed for tradition, community, comforting philosophies, etc., and religion can twist even good intentions because it is based on such an illogical premise. Hence, Pope Francis wanting to help the poor, but homosexuals organizing for rights? The devil.

While I can respect the good intentions of some of those who become nuns and priests, I can never respect their decision to carry out those intentions through such a terrible, horrible, hateful belief system that continues to cause so much pain and suffering and recruits almost entirely through indoctrinating the gullible, mainly young children. Indeed, for pushing gullibility as a virture in "faith". Not to mention, the sheer lunacy of celibacy and the totally disgusting, guilt-ridden idea of "original sin". At the same time, I feel for them, because for many, if they hadn't been indoctrinated in the faith, they would have never chosen such a twisted role in service to such a terrible belief system, regressive in so many ways.

[kwassa]

19. So, the priesthood is out for you?

[MellowDem]

21. Yeah, I'm not a misogynist or homophobe, so the priesthood isn't for me

[hrmjustin]

23. Not clergy is homophobic or misogynistic.

[MellowDem]

26. Then why are they part of a misogynist, homophobic institution?

There's no good reason to be, especially if a person is not themselves.

[hrmjustin]

27. Not all clergy belong to homophobic or misogynistic organizations.

And for the ones that do I would rather they stay where they are to try to change the church within.

[MellowDem]

32. This is the Catholic Church from the article...

So yes, it is. These aren't Unitarians.

The ones that do should get the hell out to weaken and eventually destroy such organizations, the stuff they do is way too toxic to stay on or lend any sort of support to change it from within. I wouldn't advocate someone stay in the KKK to change it from within. Would you?

[hrmjustin]

33. The RCC is not the KKK and should not be in the same sentence.

[kwassa]

24. there are many types of priests in this world

if you wish to reduce them down to one type, then you really don't know what you are talking about.

[MellowDem]

25. All Catholic priests are part of a misogynist, homophobic institution

We're talking about the Catholic Church. I don't join such bigoted organizations. I'm sure local KKKs do some community work, but I wouldn't join them, cause I'm not a racist.

Again, there's no good reason to join an explicitly bigoted organization.

[hrmjustin]

28. Wow, just wow.

[MellowDem]

29. If you have a point, make it...

Are you seriously surprised that the Catholic Church discriminates against homosexuals and women and tries to take away their rights? Is this news to you? Are you so impotent you can't defend this bullshit institution? Wow, just wow.

[hrmjustin]

31. First of all I am gay and a former member of the church so I know what homophobia is all about.

My wow comment was when you put the KKK and the RCC in the same sentence.

Please be more civil in this room when addressing other member.

[MellowDem]

35. How is that a bad comparison?

There's nothing disrespectful about it. This is the religious privilege crap that is so annoying. The ideology of the Catholic Church is no different from the KKK with regards to why it discriminates against certain groups. Is the Church's discrimination and bigotry against gays and homosexuals somehow "less bad" than the KKK's bigotry? More rational? The rationale is the same.

[hrmjustin]

38. What is religious privilege?

The RCC is not the KKK. Yes the leadership of the church is anti-gay but not all members are.

You don't have to like the RCC. There are many things I don't like about it. I was an altar boy for Cardinal O'connor and came out to him and was told I would burn in hell if I acted on it. I am not a fan of the leadership and I left at 18 to become Episcopalian, but I will not condemn the whole church for the politics of the bishops.

[MellowDem]

40. I never said the RCC was the KKK...

I said their rationale for discrimination is the same. That is one similarity. I know not everyone in the church agrees with it, but it's the official church doctrine! I'm sorry you had to go through that, that is terrible, and it's why I think people should leave any organization that STILL officially promotes that hate and bigotry.

The religious privilege I refer to is the kid gloves religion gets treated with compared to secular ideologies, and which is why comparisons between different types of bigotry by a church and a secular organization are always deemed somehow offensive.

[hrmjustin]

41. Religion does not get threated with kid gloves on DU.

I stand with you in saying that the homophobia of the RCC must end. But that does not mean I believe they should all leave the church. I know good people that have stay to try to change the church from within.

[MellowDem]

43. Even on DU...

It has privilege. Maybe not the religion forum specifically, but overall, it still has it.

Think of it this way. Any other leader of an organization who had a misogynist and homophobic official doctrine would probably be denounced unanimously across DU, no matter their liberal stances on other issues. Except, that is, for religious leaders of various stripes. There were posts praising the new Pope, for example, on DU, and denouncing harsh criticism of said Pope as bigotry. It's just religious privilege.

Really, the only place many American atheists can break through that religious privilege criticism is on the Internet. Mainstream media doesn't touch such topics with a ten foot pole even.

I don't doubt there are good people in the RCC, but they're supporting a bad organization by remaining, and they don't have to remain. There are many other religions and organizations that would allow them to continue on and that they actually believe in. There's no good enough reason to remain in an organization that toxic and harmful.

[hrmjustin]

45. I am sorry but...

... as a host of five rooms here including GD and a Mirt member I can tell you that religion is not treated with kid gloves here.

Put a post in GD that looks down on religion more than half the time will not get locked and be full of posts that say how horrible religion is. Put a post in GD praising religion and 9 out of 10 times it is locked.

If a person wants to put a post up saying how good the pope is I guarantee you that you will find a dozen or more post from people saying what are you crazy. Yes you get posters that praise the pope but look down the thread and you will see people give an opposing view.

As to why RCC members who or pro-LGBT and pro-Women who stay I can only say they stay to change the church. Yes it is a hard task not meant for everyone, but the only way the church will change is from within.

[MellowDem]

46. Or if enough people leave the church...

It will change. Actually, I have no doubt that is what is driving the latest, snail pace shift in the church, not the reformers. The church isn't a democracy, and the reformers don't have the tools to enact change. It is a hierarchal structure meant to preserve dogma. If enough people leave, either the church will be forced to change, or it will lose so much power as to be less relevant.

I know there are more atheists on DU per capita than in your average US town, I'm just saying, that by DU standards, religion is treated with kid gloves compared to secular ideologies. No way a post praising a misogynistic, homophobic leader of an organization would be allowed to stand, or would receive near as much support.

[BainsBane]

47. Are you kidding?

Misogyny and racism is praised here all the time. But to compare religion with bigotry is absurd. Some religions can and do preach bigotry, and those positions are uniformly denounced, but you are trying to equate religion itself with evil--which by the way a number of posters agree with. Religion is protected under the constitution. In the United States, people have the right to worship or not worship as they choose, as much as you might despise that right.

As for the Catholic Church, people in the West have left in droves. The current Pope is gradually modifying his tone in comparison to Benedict. But they aren't a supermarket. They don't respond immediately to consumer demand. Also keep in mind the vast majority of their membership is in Latin American and Africa, which is far more conservative on cultural issues.

[kwassa]

36. In defense of this bullshit institution ....

as neither hrmjustin or myself are Catholic ...

The Catholic Church does many positive things as well. They are the largest private charitable organization in the world. I worked for them 20 years ago in a program that resettled Vietnamese refugees. Catholic Charities and Catholic Relief Services, who was working in Darfur when nobody was paying attention to it. If you want, I can dump a lot of information on you about it, but I suspect you really don't want to know what is going on.

[MellowDem]

39. But that's a poor rationale...

If a explicitly discriminatory institution does a lot of good works elsewhere, so what? How is that a good reason to join them? There are many institutions that do the same work without it, so go through those organizations.

Lots of discriminatory organizations, the KKK included, do good works. Does that make them more legitimate in our mind? It shouldn't.

[kwassa]

42. No, it isn't. This is not a binary world.

The world is not a place where people are purely good or bad. We need every bit of good that we can find in this world, and like it or not, the Catholic church provides a lot of it, and so do many other religious organizations in terms of services for the poor and needy that no one else provides. If they were somehow to disappear, I have no illusions that there would be someone else to step up to perform the services that they perform.

No one is required to be a Catholic, anyone can walk away. Those that remain find something of value, of great importance, to them. Many within the church are trying to change it. I like the new emphasis of Pope Francis, who is a positive role model, in my opinion, on serving the poor.

[MellowDem]

44. The religions provide none of the good...

It's the people in the religions that do. If the religions went away, the people would still be there to do good, as you stated. Which is why people who don't agree with those religions should drop them and take up a new one, or none at all, and do good works through organizations they actually believe in.

Look, I think the new Pope is somewhat less bad than the previous Pope, but the fundamental beliefs are all still there, and it's still terrible. I know those that remain find something of value, it's just my opinion that there is nothing valuable enough to keep a person working for any organization with that sort of ideology and which actively hurts others with its power, especially given the numerous alternatives.

[BainsBane]

48. The core message of the Catholic Church is social justice

and caring for the poor. The vast majority of Catholics never hear a word about homosexuality or abortion in their parishes. They do hear about aspiring to live one's life in ways inspired by Christ, in service to the poor, all the time.

[kwassa]

30. What exact part of you is mellow, MellowDem?

I think you shouldn't join the Catholic church.

Other people have a different view and will join the church for different reasons.

[MellowDem]

37. Yes, people will join the church for different reasons...

But what reason is good enough to join ANY organization that treats women as inferior and homosexuals as "disordered" and actively tries to take away the rights of both? There is no good enough reason.

[leveymg]

34. Job security - G-d's work is unlikely to be outsourced or automated.