French girl attempts suicide after ‘veil attack’

[cbayer]

http://www.france24.com/en/20130827-french-muslim-girl-veil-attack-suicide-skinheads-islamophobia-paris-police

LATEST UPDATE: 27/08/2013



A French teenager has attempted suicide after reportedly being assaulted by skinheads for wearing the Muslim veil. The 16-year-old jumped from the fourth floor of her apartment building outside Paris and was “seriously injured” in the fall.

A 16-year-old girl, who filed charges against a pair of skinheads for what she said was an Islamophobic attack on August 12, attempted to commit suicide on Monday by jumping from a window in her apartment block.

According to a police report, the girl was assaulted on August 13 in the troubled town of Trappes, 35 kilometres west of Paris. Two men with shaved heads approached the Muslim girl with a “sharp object,” ripped off her headscarf, shouted Islamphobic insults and hit her on the shoulder before fleeing by car, a judicial source told French media.

The girl made a first attempt to take her life on August 23 by ingesting a dangerously-high quantity of medicated drugs, police said.

more at link

[get the red out]

1. Skin heads are criminals

They should be arrested. I wonder why the poor girl attempted suicide? That is very sad.

But the French people and government have the right to enact whatever laws they feel necessary to preserve their secular culture, it's their country.

[cbayer]

2. The article doesn't say much about what she is experiencing or

why she may be suicidal.

It does talk about the tensions in this and other communities.

I object to France's restrictions on religious garb, though I realize it's their right to do what they wish.

But, have they outlawed the wearing of robes by priests? The wearing of habits by nuns? No, of course they haven't.

Their claim of doing this to preserve their "secular culture" seems very flawed and it truly looks much more like religious bigotry.

[get the red out]

3. I don't know what is in their minds so far as bigotry

But I can understand their desire to try to maintain the culture in their own country. Islamic people immigrated to France knowing it was not an Islamic country. If one immigrates to another culture, which is much different from their own, they have to realize that they are not going to be living exactly the same life.

[cbayer]

4. Well, maybe they migrated there because they thought it was a secular country

where freedom of religion held equal sway with freedom from religion.

It all seems very hypocritical to me.

It's not about living exactly the same life. Why is it that the united states, so dominated by christians, has not and will not enact laws about religious garb?

I would say it is because we are actually a secular country and argue that France is not.

[okasha]

5. It's also because we have first amendment freedoms

and don't consider skinheads "a part of our secular culture."

France has gone down this road before in the wake of its revolution. Apparently nothing was learned from the experience.

[cbayer]

6. Exactly. France, like much of Europe, doesn't like foreigners in general.

And they seem to have a particular dislike for Muslims.

I think these clothing laws are wrong. Unless there is a good reason pertaining to the general welfare and safety of a populace, I don't see how you can see this as anything but bigotry.

[okasha]

8. There's a long-ingrained triumphalism

in modern French culture. While the US has no parallel to laws governing religious clothing, neither has it ever had anything like the Academie Francaise to determine what vocabulary may be officially admitted to the French language. No "le weekend" or "le sweater" or "le pique-nique." And no richness comparable to our thoroughly and joyfully bastardized American English, either.

[cbayer]

12. They only recently revoked a law that prohibited women from wearing pants.

While not enforced, it remained on the books until this year.

I love France, but they are purists. The only ones more french than the french are the quebecois, who are also trying to prohibit "others" from wearing what they want.

[trotsky]

26. Muslim countries ALSO prohibit "others" from wearing what they want, you know.

When a Western woman is visiting those countries, she is expected to wear a veil. You yourself have done this, haven't you? Or was it your daughter?

If a woman should fail to do so, she might be similarly (or worse) attacked.

It would appear that in one case, you expect an existing culture to bend and accommodate the traditions of newcomers or visitors - and by not doing so, you will judge them harshly as evidenced in this thread. But then on the other hand you expect newcomers or visitors to bend and accommodate the traditions and practices of the local culture when they go to a Muslim country.

Sure would help if you could have a consistent standard, cbayer. Maybe you'd be taken more seriously?

[Act_of_Reparation]

31. This is usually where the peanut gallery shows up...

...to accuse you of "painting with too broad a brush."

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[cbayer]

32. It is a broad brush, and I am referring more to the government at this point

than the general populace.

I know there are many both in France and Quebec that will stand up for the rights of others, but the overall trend in both locations is pretty alarmingly anti-Muslim.

[trotsky]

33. Or, in other words,

it's perfectly OK for you to engage in the behavior that you criticize in others?

Stay classy!

[okasha]

34. This reminds me of an incident that took place several decades ago,

when the USSR was still attempting to assert influence in Africa. Someone in the cultural office arranged an exchange: several troupes of traditional African dancers would perform at the Bolshoi, and the Bolshoi would make a tour of Central African capitals. At the dress rehearsal in Moscow, one of the cultural offices' bureaucrats was scandalized to discover that the female African dancers performed topless. Very quietly, even politely, he asked the troupe's director to make sure the ladies wore tops for the public performances. When questioned, he replied that going topless was not a Russian custom.

The director immediately agreed--on condition that the Bolshoi ballerinas dance topless on their tour of Africa because going topless was an African custom.

In the end, the African troupes performed in their own authentic costume, and so did the ladies in tutus. There's a lesson there somewhere.
.

[cbayer]

36. Hilarious and what a great response.

I tend to enjoy diversity in many of it's forms and love to travel to places that are as different from what I know as I can get. That goes for my travels within the states as well.

Tolerance. It's all about getting to know the "other" and being tolerant.

[okasha]

37. I've always considered myself extremely fortunate

that I grew up multicultural (before there was even a word for it.) There's a special kind of energy here on the border that you just don't find except in other places where cultures and languages meet.

[cbayer]

39. Agree. I have lived in some amazingly diverse communities

and in several where I was a distinct minority. Being white, that has been very important to who I am.

[get the red out]

7. Our situation is different

The US is a much larger country, and already a "melting pot" of various cultures for two centuries. France does not have that history to rely on, that I know of. Also I have read that while Europe has a Muslim population of 6%, the Muslim population in the US is 0.2% and that US Muslim immigrants tend to be much higher educated and assimilate into American society more overall. I have to say that I understand the fear a population would have if people immigrated into a country at a high rate with drastically different dress and customs.

I don't think we are a more secular country than France at all, citizens in the US are far more religious than the majority of French people.

[cbayer]

11. Exactly, but that doesn't excuse xenophobia, imo.

So it's ok if they are better educated and assimilate more easily? That makes them more what? Palatable?

I guess the native americans probably felt the same about us when we immigrated into their country with different dress and customs.

Being secular is about separation issues. It's not about whether the people are religious or not. One can be both religious and secular.

And when a country starts banning the religious garb of a particular religion, that does not argue for a secular government, but for one that intrudes on the religions of its inhabitants.

[okasha]

14. That makes them more

"like us." (Not so brown, not so devout, not so, well, er, strange.)

[cbayer]

15. And smart! And more willing to give up their own identities in order to fit in!

[get the red out]

25. Xenophobia is a harsh judgement on them IMO

Europeans could have potentially said that the native people of the Americas were Xenophobic, I know that's not a good comparison, but it might have more to do with how people view what is healthy for their society than fit such an extreme and cruel term as "Xenophobic".

I just think it is very hard to pass judgement on the French looking through an American lens.

[cbayer]

29. You are most likely correct about passing judgment through an American lens.

I happen to live with a brit who is in business with a scandinavian and has a number of european born friends. There is a range of responses regarding immigration, but there seems to always be a rather thin veneer or disdain for those foreigners. In a couple of cases, it's is outright bigotry and xenophobia would be exactly the right word.

I understand that the situation is complex and hard to really evaluate from a distance, but I find the anti-muslim laws to be overtly discriminatory and very distasteful.

I never thought of xenophobic as being either extreme or cruel. In the case of native americans, I don't think their fear was either irrational or unreasoned, so I wouldn't call it that. Is there some evidence that the French fear is rational and reasoned?

[silverweb]

9. Between a rock and a hard place.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]The poor girl is caught between warring worlds.

Her religion (and very likely her family) pressure her to wear traditional garb, while the outside world that she has to learn to function in pressures her to discard it.

She can't win. That's a pretty impossible level of conflict for any 16-year-old to have to live with. The unforgivable racist attack by skinheads was probably more than she could take.

[okasha]

10. The poor girl was attacked by thugs

who chose a 16-year-old girl to victimize instead of a 6-foot 25-year old man wearing a kippah. That's the rock and the hard place.

[cbayer]

13. She may be wearing the clothing by choice, but I agree that it's a horrible place

for a 16 year old to be in. The attack must have been terrifying.

[LostOne4Ever]

21. Totally agree

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]cbayer[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]I object to France's restrictions on religious garb, though I realize it's their right to do what they wish.

But, have they outlawed the wearing of robes by priests? The wearing of habits by nuns? No, of course they haven't.

Their claim of doing this to preserve their "secular culture" seems very flawed and it truly looks much more like religious bigotry.

Totally agree.

Secular means indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations. It does not mean against religion. This law looks more like an excuse to discriminate against an unpopular group than it is about protecting a culture.

Secular societies should be about respecting both believers and disbelievers. Acknowledging that no one knows the absolute truth for sure and to treat everyone fairly and in a way that maximizes our rights and treats everyone with respect.

[cbayer]

22. They just don't look French enough in all that religious dress.

Think of the children! And the tourists!

I think you have put this extremely well.

[LostOne4Ever]

23. Thanks!

Authoritarian practices and laws like this just burn my blood

Is it really that hard for governments to let people live their lives how they please so long as they are not hurting themselves or others?

/SMH

DU needs a SMH emote

[cbayer]

27. What's SMH?

[LostOne4Ever]

30. (S)haking (M)y (H)ead (nt)

[dimbear]

16. The fair thing to do, the right thing to do, is become informed about the situation. Read a bit,

then ask honestly whether there's good enough reason to be afraid, which is what 'Islamophobia' would suggest. Many French folks seem to think there is.

Perhaps the top question should be whether these immigrants came to France to try the inviting French way of life, or whether they simply intended transplanting the ways they are there to escape.

[cbayer]

18. Afraid of a 16 year old girl who has done nothing wrong?

What exactly do you think these skinheads had to be afraid of?

What is wrong with escaping a way of life that is fearful or repressive? Are you native american or did your family immigrate here for one of many reasons?

This post makes me queasy.

[dimbear]

24. The situation in France is complex, of which the skinheads are just one isolated sample.

I understand your reluctance to look harder the immigrant problem in France, but that would be the fair thing to do. It isn't simply that some mass psychosis suddenly gripped the French, it's two very different people reacting against one another. Fair minded folks ought to look deeper into the facts on the ground.

My family immigrated here long ago, but they took up American ways awfully fast. One the first American actions of that particular ancestor was enlisting in the Civil War to fight for Mr. Lincoln. I don't recall any insistence on speaking German, the language of the old country, the family shed that as soon as they could. They came here to be Americans, dress like Americans, act like Americans. They wanted to fit in. They did.

[cbayer]

28. You understand my reluctance to look harder? What an arrogant thing to say.

This is happening all over Europe and I've looked quite hard at it, thank you. White Europeans don't like the influx of brown people. It's not a mass psychosis. It's been going on for a while now.

Your family most likely fit in because they were WASP's, no? Or something very similar.

Your position that people should give up their own cultures, languages, customs, language and just "fit in" is pretty alarming.

[okasha]

35. I usually ask people who take

that particularly offensive attitude why their ancestors did'nt attempt to fit into the dominant culture when the first wave arrived. You know, how come we're writing messages on this board in English instead of Nahuatl? Or Cherokee? Or Lakota?

[cbayer]

38. I find some of the positions being taken here a little disturbing.

I understand that the US is a melting pot, but, except for native people, we are all from immigrants of one kind or another.

I also understand that those countries that have long had very little diversity are going to have struggles as immigrants come in and establish their own lives, communities and religions.

But the attempts to make that uncomfortable or even untenable for them is disturbing.

[dimbear]

40. I'm not surprised at all. Any consideration that Muslims might be having trouble integrating into

France and incidentally many other European countries because there is some fault in Islam is out of the picture, not to be considered whatever.

Eyes wide shut.

Now transplant the same argument to Myanmar, half a world away. Substitute for all those racist Catholic French a set of (somehow) equally racist Buddhists. Does your argument still look as shiny and new?

Go ahead and fill in other countries at will. It's not hard to find them.

[rug]

17. Bullies always seek out the most vulnerable.

[cbayer]

19. Or hide behind smokescreens, like keyboards.

[rug]

20. Bingo!