It's Time to Rethink Religion

[cbayer]

http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2013/09/16/op-ed-its-time-rethink-religion

A devoted Jewish cantor found solace in the same religion he felt slighted by as a young gay man
BY MARK GOLDMAN
MARK GOLDMAN is the newly chosen president of the American Conference of Cantors, the first gay person to hold the position. He is the cantor for Temple Kol Ami Emanu-El in Plantation, Fla.

SEPTEMBER 16 2013 4:00 AM ET



I remember growing up in the caring Orthodox Jewish community of northwest London. I can't remember a time when I didn't want to be a cantor, the lead voice and clergy member of a synagogue. I used to strategize the precise time and route I would take on my weekly walks to shul so that I'd "accidentally" bump into my idol, the cantor of my synagogue. I became friends with his sons so I could spend time in the cantor's home, singing, learning, and experiencing Judaism right from the source.

However, when I heard the cantor laugh at a gay character on TV, I was devastated. By the time of my bar mitzvah, I realized that all was not well in my world. The all-boys Jewish high school I attended made its stance on homosexuality clear — it was wrong. Words like "abhorrent," "disgusting," and "repugnant" were used to describe homosexuality by the same rabbis I had looked up to.

During a gap year between high school and university, I attended an Orthodox yeshiva (where students study sacred texts) in the heart of Jerusalem. I heard shocking remarks and jokes about homosexuality, often from the same teachers who preached tolerance and love of humanity. On the other hand, flirtatious homosexual behavior and activity were commonplace at the school.

One incident that sticks out in my mind was the reaction of our head rabbi following the Challenger space shuttle disaster of 1986. He informed us that the disaster was God's way of punishing mankind, who falsely believed it had attained dominion over the sky as well as the land. Our group of 19- and 20-year-old students simply nodded our heads in agreement.

more at link

[AtheistCrusader]

1. His 'reform' mindset doesn't seem to speak to this example.

"One incident that sticks out in my mind was the reaction of our head rabbi following the Challenger space shuttle disaster of 1986. He informed us that the disaster was God's way of punishing mankind, who falsely believed it had attained dominion over the sky as well as the land. Our group of 19- and 20-year-old students simply nodded our heads in agreement."

Reform what? To be what?

[cbayer]

2. He is relating that story from his time in an Orthodox school.

I guess I am missing your point.

[AtheistCrusader]

3. I don't see anything in his article about fixing the

mindset he highlighted in that example.

[cbayer]

4. Say what? He's doing a lot to try and fix that.

You might want to take another look at it and at him.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Yeah, I read it again.

What does 'forward thinking' imply? He made specifics about the LGBTQ type issues. Said nothing about the Challenger explosion/punishment from god issue.

[cbayer]

6. He used it as an example of fundamentalism and went on to talk

about how reform judaism is the antithesis of fundamentalism.

He seems like a great guy that has risen to a position where he has an opportunity to work for change.

I guess I don't understand why you would have a problem with him.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Not a 'problem' per se.

I just don't see where he's advocating anything different, WRT to the challenger example.

Is there a video link or something where he expounds, that I am missing?

[cbayer]

8. Don't worry about it.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. That's not very helpful.

I'm asking what about him leads his faith in a new direction. This is an organized religion with source documentation. Is he interpreting it in a different way, tossing things that are questionable out, inventing new stuff... what?

[cbayer]

10. I guess you would have to ask him or do a little research on him.

If you want to know more, I'm sure there is plenty more that you can easily find.

But you chose to go after him based on what you now claim is very little knowledge.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. You seem to read a lot into a post that doesn't do what you seem to think it does.

I haven't 'gone after him' at all. I said his article doesn't address his own example. That's all.

Please stop doing that. I don't like or dislike him.

[cbayer]

12. But it does. You just don't see it.

As I said, he brings it up as an example of fundamentalism and then talks about how the reform approach is diametrically opposed to that.

Do you know much about orthodox and reformed Judaism? Perhaps that is where the problem lies.

There is plenty of info available on that as well.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Why doesn't he say how it is different?

I have to go fucking fishing to see what the deal is? What a useless article.

[cbayer]

14. He does. Like I said, don't worry about it.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. He doesn't. He said absolutely nothing about how it is different.

[cbayer]

16. Let me just say this, then I am done with this. He is a crusader.

A real, true crusader who is actually doing things that can cause change for the better.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/lets-cheer-our-own-just-call-gay-cantor-mark-goldman-president2/news/2013/08/20/73534

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Doing WHAT.

This article ALSO tells me nothing of how he interprets events in the world against possible divine judgment.

Does he say it's not relevant? Does he say it in a nicer way? Does he say nothing? What?