How an astrologer weights a strong or weak Saturn, etc. Strong sign, weak sign, for example

[Ricochet21]

A sample chart


If your Saturn is determined to be strong, you may be said to have strong Capricorn traits BECAUSE SATURN RULES CAPRICORN.
If your Mars is determinded to be strong, you may be said to have strong Aries traits BECAUSE MARS RULES ARIES.

It takes many years of seeing thousands of charts to really get this part of astrology down. Just how does an astrologer determine a strong planet vs. a weak one? This is referred to as “weighting.” Almost all astrologers have their own methods and preferences since this art is so complex. However, below is a list upon which most would agree.


The four “angles” are according to the Ascendant-Descendant and Midheaven-Nadir lines as indicated. The houses are the “pieces of the pie.” The zodiacal degrees follow around the circle in a counter-clockwise direction.


a. A planet is highly strengthened if it is located close to the “angles” or in any of the #1 positions.

b. A planet is greatly emphasized if you were born with it near the Sun such as in position #2 with the Sun and Mars.

c. A planet’s influence upon a house is stronger if it is placed earlier in the house rather than later as symbolized by #3 (strong) and #4 (weaker.)

d. A planet is EXTREMELY strong if it is born at a right angle (square) to your ascendant as in #5’s.

e. Planets are very strong if they were born in clumps, or in a “stellium” such as in #6 with the Sun, Venus, and Mars.

f. Planets in strong aspect, especially conjunction, opposition, or square to one another can play a very significant role in one’s chart such as indicated in the positions marked #7.

[kimmerspixelated]

1. Well, that's cool

that you explained this!

Dare I ask about my weighted-ness?

[Ricochet21]

2. I answered you Saturday

Aquarius, Pisces, Leo leo leo, Pisces Pisces Pisces, Sag, Leo leo Leo

[kimmerspixelated]

4. You certainly did, but

I thought we were talking planets?

You know it's gettin late, I should re-check before I post.

[Ricochet21]

6. Strong planetary placements

give you strong archetypal impulses from the SIGN THAT THEY RULE

if you have a strong Uranus, you will be very Aquarian, etc.

[Ricochet21]

8. Saturday we were talking SIGNS

Signs and the planets that rule them are very very similar archetypes

[Sanity Claws]

3. I have a lot of squares and oppositions

how would I determine which ones are more important?

[Sweet Freedom]

5. I'm glad you explained this.

I was telling my mom about your reply to my daughter's chart and thought, "Maybe he meant Aquarius because I don't see much Pisces at all."

[Ricochet21]

7. She was born with NEPTUNE RISING RIGHT ON THE ASCENDANT

a tremendous amount of Pisces
Uranus/Aquarius is strong too and is more VISIBLE in the personality
but, the Neptune (being lost) is much stronger, remember Neptune/Pisces is very subtle, yet powerful

[Saokymo]

9. Hmmmm

Now I want to try and guess some weights of my own.

Looking at my chart, I'd say...
SAG, Libra, Virgo, Scorpio, and GEMINI for sign weights
And a strong Jupiter, Uranus, Chiron, Moon and possibly Mercury for planetary weights.

For my son's chart (9/6/2009)...
AQUARIUS, Virgo and SCORPIO for signs
With a very strong Neptune, Chiron, Jupiter and Venus (all squared his Scorpio ascendant) and a very prominent Moon in Aries.
His chart also has a huge grand square -- Pluto opposed Mars, squared against his Moon opposed Mercury.

Thanks for posting this stuff, Rick! Astrology is such a wonderfully complex art; we'd be lost without your input and guidance.

[Ricochet21]

10. You're getting the idea

although, I don't separate them. If you have a strong Moon, I call that very Lunar which is almostly exactly like saying very Cancerian.

Strong Uranus/Aquarius since Uranus is rising
Strong Virgo since Chiron ruler of Virgo is on descendant
Libra
Virgo Moon
Strong Gemini since Mercury is on the midheaven
Strong Scorpio since Pluto is on Venus

Son (no birth time supplied)
Gemini
Sag/Neptune/Pisces from triplet
Excessive Saturn/Capricorn/Virgo since Saturn at head of bucket pattern
Strong Taurus Venus Mars
Scorpio/Capricorn with Pluto next to Capricornian Moon

chart is mainly Gemini and Capricorn bc of Saturn's extremely strong placement
you'll have to encourage the Gemini to COME OUT and get past Saturn's fears, etc. He will be MUCH more stable than most Geminis bc of his strong earth: Virgo, Capricorn, Taurus

Don't feel bad, my students after 5 years of weekly training are just getting this concept

[Saokymo]

11. This makes sense

I can definitely see the Saturn influence in his chart now that it's been pointed out. Right now we're trying to encourage him to be less bull-headed/impatient and more cooperative when doing things together. (I think that's more of a general toddler phase than anything in his chart, though.)

[Howler]

12. WOOT!!!!!!

thank you yet AGAIN Rick!!!! That explains quite a bit!!!!! You are so good to us!!!!

[Ricochet21]

13. that will be $0.05

[Kookaburra]

15. You need a sign

The astrologer is "Real In"

[Celebration]

14. We should consider pinning this post

To the top of the page?

[Why Syzygy]

26. agree

That's a good idea. But I don't remember who is host of this group?

[Remember Me]

16. I call my son a quadruple Scorpio --

with Sun and Moon in Scorpio and all of them in the 8th House.

So his Sun and Moon fall in my 12th House while MY Sun falls in his 12th House. Karmic much? I think he's got Venus there -- no Mars, because his Mars is absolutely on top of my 4 degree Pisces Sun. And his wife, whom I adore, has her Virgo Sun at 3 Virgo.

(I love compatabilies, aka: synastry, especially when looking at families because just as those blue eyes and flat nose are "inherited," so are astrological factors. VERY fascinating. Also shows why you get along and why you can't.

[Ricochet21]

25. Your son can be single double triple

Sun in Scorpio single
Moon in Scorpio double
Scorpio rising triple

if Pluto is near the Sun, I would add quadruple.

Be very careful doing synastry. It IS very valid. It is more important to first of all see whether a person can have a relationship in the first place. In synastry, pay major attention to degree of closeness of orb.

[Remember Me]

27. No Aries rising.

He's got the Lights and Mars in the 8th House, in Scorpio. Aries on the Ascendent (LOL -- a trait "inherited" from his father who had Mars on the Asc. in Capricorn. When I first started learning astrology, oh so many years ago, and chose to do my ex-husand's chart, I took one look at that single thing in his chart and it said ALL I ever needed to know. LOL. I put it down and have never looked at it again.)

[Ricochet21]

29. I would say, in my own way

that I agree with you.
If the Sun and Moon are both in Scorpio and in the 8th, he's a TRIPLE for sure.

[Remember Me]

30. You know, I misspoke

His Mars is in PISCES, which is the only way it can sit right on top of my Sun.

[FrogStatue]

31. what might indicate

whether a person can have a relationship in the first place?

[Kookaburra]

17. Question for you, Rick, or anyone who knows the answer

Is there a reason that no matter how hard I try to understand this it still sails right over my head?

I always considered myself relatively intelligent -- able to pick up new concepts easily -- but this is beyond my grasp. So are there folks that just can't get it where astrology is concerned?

[kimmerspixelated]

18. Kooks,

I'm definitely with you! I understood the book( at least I think I do) but houses and other things like trines, etc., is Greek to me!

[Ricochet21]

21. That stuff can be easily

looked up on the web
real good basics on http://mountainastrologer.com/standards/new_to_astro/new.html

[Kookaburra]

22. Looked up doesn't equal understood in my case

[Ricochet21]

24. This is not made for Geminis

who want to master it all in 5 minutes.
It took me 2-3 years to get it down.
I had the basics down in a few months.
My students get the basics down in a few months.
Keep studying.

[Remember Me]

28. I studied like a fiend before I could even distinguish the glyphs

for planets and signs. It was SO frustrating because I too have always considered myself relatively intelligent -- and a good student.

It will come, and if you let it your intuitive abilities will follow, something I never let happen. Now I just use it for myself. But it's a REALLY handy skill to have.

[Ricochet21]

23. You would have no problem at all if you had a class

you have to learn the basics. It's confusing because the planets travel through the zodiac counter clockwise
while the planets go through the FIXED HOUSES clockwise (because the earth is rotating once/day)

Once you get that, it just builds from there.

Planets travel through the zodiacal signs at different rates because of their relative distance from the Sun
All planets travel through all 12 houses each day, 2 hours in each one.

a planet is in a sign and in a house at birth


any given day at any time, every planet is in a sign and in a house for a short period

I suggest you peruse my early newsletters, don't be impatient, because I taught all of this in one or more of them
good luck

My book is SPECIFICALLY about the signs, the 12 signs, not the Sun signs which we all identify with too closely.

[clif12]

19. saturn

I remember in our reading you said i had a strong Saturn.
I believe in the 9 th house...

[Ricochet21]

20. Your Saturn is very strong

in the late 9th house, having a big impact on the 10th too

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

33. I think I owe somebody an apology. I just was on the jury that voted to hide that last comment.

And I had no clue DU even HAD an astrology forum, and didn't bother to check the context of surrounding comments to realize that it actually WAS correctly in context. I just assumed somebody had, out of the blue, posted a weird astrology comment in the middle of some political diary My bad.

(ETA: Although now I see the commenter got banned anyway, oddly.)

[magical thyme]

34. no need to apologize

Without seeing the post I can't be 100% certain, but this forum has had a returning troll for almost as long as I've been here. The troll in question tends to be recognized and removed very quickly and efficiently.

[Matariki]

35. What about combust planets?

I was under the impression that they are considered weakened by the sun but if cazimi (within 16min - 1 degree) then considered fortunate

[Ricochet21]

37. I have not found that to be true

Of the charts I've seen

[panfluteman]

36. According to Traditional Greek or Hellenistic Astrology,

Saturn, the Major Malefic, having a cold, dry Melancholic nature and temperament, is best placed in Air signs, which have an opposite yet complementary hot and wet / warm and moist Sanguine temperament. Both the Malefics, Mars and Saturn, are like that; they are not just "bad", but they have inherently extreme natures that do best when they're balanced and tempered. And so, hot, dry, Choleric Mars fares better in the cold, wet water sign of Scorpio than it does in the hot, dry Choleric Fire sign of Aries, although both signs are domicile or rulership signs for that planet. Similarly, Saturn rules two signs in traditional astrology - Capricorn and Aquarius, with the cold, dry Melancholic earth sign of Capricorn being in total consonance with Saturn's inherent Melancholic nature, but less desirable than the Sanguine Air sign of Aquarius. And Saturn is most powerful, or exalted, in another Air sign, Libra. Libra, being the sign of the mediator or diplomat, lends some social graces to an otherwise dour and misanthropic Saturn.

Also, according to traditional forms of astrology, such as Hellenistic Astrology and Indian Vedic Astrology, each of the seven classical planets has their own preferred angle of maximum strength, even though its power is enhanced when conjunct any angle. And so, the Sun is most powerful when conjunct the Midheaven (10th house cusp) - in other words, at high noon - no mystery there. And Mars, the other fiery Choleric planet, is also most powerful when conjunct the Midheaven. Conversely, the Moon, and the other feminine planet, Venus, are the most powerful when conjunct the Nadir or Immum Coeli, which is opposite the Midheaven at the fourth house cusp - the house of home and family - and the Moon rules domestic affairs. The fourth house corresponds to the Cardinal Water sign of Cancer, which is the Moon's single domicile sign. Like the Moon, Venus also has a moist, watery nature. And so, in their mundane directional strengths, the two masculine planets, the Sun and Mars, directly oppose the two feminine planets, the Moon and Venus. The directional strength of Saturn is conjunct the Descendant, or 7th house cusp, since the 7th house corresponds to Libra, the sign of Saturn's exaltation. The two Mutable natured planets, since they rule the Mutable signs, Mercury and Jupiter, have their directional strengths being conjunct the Ascendant, or first house cusp. The Ascendant is associated with sunrise and the change from night into day, and the Mutable nature is associated with change.

A planet at a station - transitioning from direct to retrograde motion or vice versa - is also powerful. When analyzing your natal chart, or the natal chart of anyone else, for that matter, it is always a good idea to look in the ephemeris to see if a planet was at a station, or in that transitional phase between direct and retrograde, or retrograde and direct, motion. A planet that was at a station at the time of birth is very powerful, and becomes a major player in the natal chart.

Planetary stations also work by transit too. For example, Uranus, the planet of liberation and freedom that shakes things up, is coming to a station, and will be at a station right on Christmas day, and so the Uranian energy of change and liberation is especially strong right now. And it just so happens that stationary Uranus is directly opposing the US' natal Saturn in Libra (exalted) in the 10th house, representing the economic and political establishment powers that be, and squaring the US natal Sun when one subtracts three degrees from the current position of Saturn to account or correct for equinoctial precession in the 200 plus years since the Declaration of Independence was signed (the vernal equinox point that begins the tropical zodiac moves backwards or precesses by about one degree every 72 years). In the Uranian spirit of this important transit, we are now witnessing the scandal of Bernie (Uranus) versus (opposition aspect) the DNC powers that be (10th house Saturn exalted in Libra). Below is a link to the Sibley Chart:

http://planetwaves.net/news/daily-astrology/the-sibley-chart-astrology/

[Ricochet21]

38. I am sorry

I do not believe that planets are malefic. I've studied this over a long period of time and find that
paradigm to be outmoded.

The problem with Saturn/Capricorn is simply that at times, it tries to hard to "make sure".

[Matariki]

39. That sort of classical Hellenist Astrology works very well for horary astrology

Probably not so well for psychological, natal astrology.

At least that's what I've observed, mostly in watching other people do it

[Matariki]

40. Great post Panfluteman

I'm sure you're familiar with Christopher Warnock's site.