Salon story on NDEs

[kentauros]

Near death, explained
New science is shedding light on what really happens during out-of-body experiences -- with shocking results.
By Mario Beauregard

I found this in the Religion forum under a thread titled the same as the story. Of course, the materialists had to step in and piss all over it, but that's to be expected...

[magical thyme]

1. thank you

Good article. I read Moody's Life After Life decades ago. Still have it around here somewhere.

[kentauros]

2. I still haven't read Moody's book.

I did read another book, I think it was called "Embraced by the Light", and Denise Linn's autobiography, which described her NDE in one chapter.

I think I'll go see if Moody's book is available on the kindle

[magical thyme]

5. hah! I have Embraced by the Light too. Haven't seen Linn's, though... nt

[Cleita]

3. Yep, I saw it there and wondered how long it would take for the pissing to begin.

Thanks for putting here, where it will get more respect.

[kentauros]

6. You're welcome :)

I wasn't familiar with the woman they detailed, but I see there's an article on it at the Near Death site, too:

People Have NDEs While Brain Dead

[felix_numinous]

4. The Monroe Institute

was a place I always wanted to visit. Robert Monroe wrote Journeys out of the Body in '71, and a second book, Far Journeys in '85--two very interesting books about his experiences as a hypnotherapist.

http://www.monroeinstitute.org/about/robert-monroe

Thanks for bringing this thread here Kentauros

[kentauros]

7. At one time I wanted to go to the Monroe Institute.

Then I lost interest, and now I wouldn't mind seeing if I could eventually anyway

I've been slowly going through the CD-version of their Gateway Experience, and either remembering things I'd forgotten about it, or learning that they have added new material. I guess they're always updating their Hemi-Sync techniques and then applying them to their products.

Oh, Robert Monroe also wrote a third book, titled "Ultimate Journey" and there's a biography called "Catapult"

[Howler]

8. OOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Exceedingly Interesting!!!!!!

[kentauros]

11. I know!

I need to ask a friend of mine about something he had read on this topic as he was relating it to me. He's an agnostic, but knows I like this stuff, and is at least as fascinated as we are, if for different reasons.

The story he had read was of a woman that was to have her blood going only to her brain replaced with something else bearing oxygen, but also of a very cold temperature. It sounds much like this story, but I thought he had read something much more recent (thus why I need to contact him and get that information.) The sole purpose of the experiment was to make her "brain-dead" in order to study whether her mind continued on. As I recall, the experiment supposedly proved that it did.

[MorningGlow]

9. Thanks for posting

I will NOT click on the link to the Religion forum, in order to save my sanity. I won't, I won't, I won't!

I liked how the article pointed out that the materialistic research wasn't all it was cracked up to be. What amazes me is how septics can discount the experience of people who came back with information that they couldn't have gotten by normal means.

[kentauros]

10. They're very good at discounting information.

They should open up a big box store just of discounted information

I noticed in the Religion forum piece one of the usual suspects is complaining that the article didn't actually explain NDEs, only how they happen. As I understand the meaning of the word "explain", the 'how' of it is part of any explanation. Now, if they're asking why so many NDEs are alike, well, I doubt anyone could offer an explanation with which they'd be satisfied, as I figure it would involve Spirit in some way

[Howler]

13. What also was interesting was that people ...

who had been blind all there lives could SEE details they could not have had frame of references for!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Kentauros!!! This was very INTTTTEREEEESSSSTTTTTing!!!!!

[kentauros]

15. You're welcome :)

It's a good thing, then, that I skim the Religion forum and can "rescue" topics for us to ponder and discuss here

[Smilo]

18. And we thank you very kindly for doing this and

saving our sanity.

[kentauros]

19. Didn't I see your name over there?

And how much of your sanity is left?

[MorningGlow]

14. Ah, parsing words

The last refuge of the septic scoundrel. Well, that and refusing to accept dozens, nay, hundreds of verifiable accounts (verifiable in terms of "NDE-ers who said something they couldn't possibly have known and later finding out it was true&quot because it didn't fit the exact narrow parameters of the scientific method.

I repeat: I am NOT going to click on the link! Nuh-uh!

[kentauros]

16. You don't need to.

rug takes one of them to task, though, and it's a good subthread. Unless I'm thinking of another thread where rug takes one of them to task

[Howler]

12. Oh Yeah!!!

The woman who saw that tennis shoe with the worn toe and the lace caught under the heel did it for me!!!!!

[Smilo]

17. Thanks for the info.......

I belong to a Spiritualist Church and find all these experiences verification of what happens when we move on.

[kentauros]

20. What's also interesting, as related to this,

is that due to something called the "brane theory", there are atheists that believe in life after death

[felix_numinous]

21. I found Robert Monroe's lecture on OOBs

and how hemi sinc works (7 parts in all)

Micheal Newton interview:

What an interesting subject!!

[kentauros]

22. I'll have to watch those!

I don't think I've seen much video of Robert Monroe, but am very familiar with his voice

[findrskeep]

23. Thanks so much for posting this!

I just love stories like this. BTW, there's another site that has a ton of documented NDE cases on it and is so interesting to read the individual stories. The website is NDE I can't wait to watch the video's at the bottom of the page too. Dr. Michael Newton is FASCINATING and for anyone interested in this subject I would highly recommend his books, Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls, about LBL's (life between lives). Great stuff!! Thanks again for posting!!

[kentauros]

25. You're welcome findrskeep!

I love that site, too, though I've hardly dented it for reading through. Plenty of research information and interesting stories

[kentauros]

24. And now, for the "other side" of the coin,

again as presented in the Religion forum, and a "sneering refute" in Salon by none other than atheist darling PZ Meyers:

Near-death, distorted
Taking aim at a recent Salon story about the science of out-of-body experiences

I do want to add that I had trouble reading his "article" mostly due to all the supposed debunking. I find most materialists to be difficult to read because they are so certain that they're right.

[felix_numinous]

26. This subject

Last edited Sun Apr 29, 2012, 06:26 AM - Edit history (1)

certainly inspires a strong negative response from some people. It may be a boundary issue--this is a recent realization and I thought I would share it with you here. Hope this makes sense

[kentauros]

28. I may know what it means,

but would like to read your explanation

I also liked your original unedited post. I didn't see anything wrong with it

[felix_numinous]

29. I am still learning about this

-I saw an article years ago called 'The fear of psi' by Charles Tart, that addressed this subject head-on.
http://powersthatbeat.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/acknowledging-and-dealing-with-the-fear-of-psi/

FEAR OF PSI

I believe, both from observation of others and observations of myself, that there is a widespread and unacknowledged fear of Psi among people in general, as well as among parapsychologists.

I have recently formalized some of my understanding of this fear in the form of a social masking theory of the inhibition of Psi functioning and a primal conflict theory of the inhibition of Psi functioning (Tart, 1982).

Briefly, the social masking theory recognizes the fact that our implicit social contract often calls for not really understanding other people.

It is as if we had contracted,

“I’ll support your illusions if you’ll support mine.”

---------------

My instincts are that all of the irrational aggressive debunking and ridicule is due to an underlying fear of the unknown. It is human nature to ridicule ideas that are at the outskirts of what is comfortable or familiar. Some people seem to be playing with ideas that they are actually interested, while others are more attached to being right and in control.

I have been so tempted all my life to engage with people about psychic phenomena, since it is a part of my reality and is for many other people. I have ancestors who died in institutions, and I have often wondered if it was because of being sensitive. So right now I am trying to discern my own attachment to being right from merely standing up for myself and others who get trampled under by such a crass and overbearing culture of cruelty.

These are my thoughts today and I don't want to divert this wonderful thread about NDE--but I think that along with such great awakenings occurring right now, it is important to acknowledge the polarity that goes along with this bright light. The brighter the light the greater the shadow--or that bright flames attract moths--it is an awareness of not allowing the polarity to take on a life of it's own. Kentauros--thank you for your presence. I only deleted my post since I realize how far these words actually go.

Edited to add: I realize everyone is learning SO much right now, I am trying hard not to judge!!

[djean111]

27. I tried to reply in the religion thread

but obviously a waste of effort.
I had an NDE.
I believe in them.
I am not religious.
Can anyone explain to me why some people are so aggressive and unpleasant about trying to refute NDEs?
Do atheists go into the religion thread and demand proof of whichever god is being discussed?
(Is the religious thread only for Christians?)
Do Christians who mock NDEs realise how hypocritical (and how amusing) it is to attack NDEs because there is no "proof"?
That's not even logical.
And when a mocker says oh its only brain waves - well duh. Was there going to be a little tiny space ship or tram or something?
I am not in the least bit angry, because I don't need any validation, but it always surprises me when some spend so much irritated effort in saying there is no such thing. Like doing that negates others' personal experiences.
I am more bemused and amused.
Oh, and I don't think OBE and NDE are the same thing at all.
And IMO "supernatural" is an attempt to belittle.

[kentauros]

30. Thanks for posting here, djean111

and welcome to DU!

As a friend here has said, the Religion forum is basically a shooting gallery for DU's atheists. It's not really worth posting any thread there that posits there's something positive about either religion or belief. They'll shoot it down, make it crash and burn, and then piss all over it. It's almost as if the only thing that makes them happy is the demise of any thread on religion and belief. Although mocking and belittling makes them happy, too. Bullies are like that.

As for your NDE, I think that's cool! I've only ever had OBEs and a couple of them were pretty intense, but nothing like what Ive read of NDE accounts. I don't expect you to detail it, especially if you're not comfortable doing that; it is a very personal experience. The one detail about them that I feel negates the arguments against their validity is when an NDEr experiences unconditional love.

I think I've had a taste of unconditional love in a lucid dream once (and I subsequently misinterpreted it at the time) but I know it really doesn't compare to what those in an NDE experience and feel. As I understand it, it really can't be put into words adequately. To my perception, this goes beyond mere "brainwave" or "chemical actions" of the brain and supporting organs. I just don't feel that any organ in the human body is capable of producing the chemicals to duplicate that kind of Love. And if people could experience that level of Love, then I don't think that would be a detail so many would focus on for an NDE. It would just be a mundane emotion like any other felt by a person throughout their waking life.

[orleans]

31. what was your nde?

i was just watching a dvd tonight called beyond death. it has two pieces with raymond moody; into the light and through the tunnel and beyond.

my mom had an obe when she was in her late teens--she was in a situation that was probably very disturbing/frightening and she just found herself up near the ceiling looking down on herself and what was happening.

no--nde and out of body are completely different experiences.

would you mind giving some of the details?

[felix_numinous]

32. Here's a fascinating interview related to this subject--

Dr. Raymond Moody - NDEs & Shared Death Experiences - Coast to Coast AM - 09 - 25 - 11

&feature=related

[Helga Scow Stern]

33. I was moved by this young woman's recounting of her NDE -- Anita Moorjani

So many layers.

&feature=youtube_gdata_player

She has a book just out too.

[kentauros]

34. I think Dr. Wayne Dyer wrote the book's Forward, too.

He's always talking about her, so I'll have to see if the book is available for Kindle yet

I'll watch the video this evening. I have been interested in knowing more about her story, other than what little she's been able to tell on Dr. Dyer's show.

[felix_numinous]

35. OMG I just listened to this

and really needed to hear this today--

[Celebration]

36. all the material posted here could keep me busy for days!

Thanks, everyone, for sharing.