How much of Vatican II is going to survive this pope?

[Ken Burch]

It really looks like he wants to go back to the Pius XII era, at the very least.

Do any Catholic DU'ers think that Benedict is simply trying to drive every progressive Catholic out of the Church?

[meow2u3]

1. I feel that way

I think this pope is out of touch with Catholics of the 21st century and taking orders--and money under the table--from cults like Opus Dei and the Legion of Christ (Orwellian names on steroids IMO).

[Ken Burch]

2. Is it just me, or does "Opus Dei and the Legion of Christ"

sound like the name of a really disturbing graphic novel(and a future Mel Gibson movie)?

I was married to a Catholic woman(sort of a cafeteria Catholic, but still)and all of this would break her heart.

Were you aware of the fact that they're negotiating to bring the Society of Pius X fascists back into communion?

[rug]

3. Pretty much all of it.

Vatican II was a pastoral council; it pronunced no doctrine. Benedict I think is best characterized as a doctrinaire. That was his job before his election and that's what he is most comfortable with: promoting doctrine. He either has a tin ear or is extremenly uncomfortable with the pastoral aspects of the Papacy.

[Ken Burch]

4. He's also trying to let the Society of Pius X back into the church

Those people are not only fascists, but some of them are Holocaust deniers. How can he think that what the nuns are doing is worse than THAT?

[rug]

7. The Pope goes way bach with Lefebvre.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/05/flashback-1988-ratzinger-on-the-lefebvre-schism/

[olegramps]

5. Two of the most important doctrinal issues, contraception and celibacy were taken off the agenda.

The conservatives convinced Pope Paul VI to restrict these issues solely for the decision by the Vatican cronies and the future Pope John Paul II who had no intent of ever allowing revision.

[rug]

6. Yes but that started with JPII.

[olegramps]

8. John Paul II wasn't pope during Vatican II. Paul VI was,and he and his henchmen couldn't wait to

Last edited Sat Jun 16, 2012, 10:06 AM - Edit history (2)

I meant to write wasn't and when I did correct it the change didn't take.





shut it down following the death of Good Pope John XXXIII and any hope of major was lost.

If you read the documents and speeches of the bishops during the Council you will quickly realize that they are in marked contrast to the lock-step conservative know-nothings that now lead the church. What transpired was that Cardinal Ottaviaani, the head of the Inquisition, welded absolute power in opposing any reforms and was a swore enemy of Vatican II. Unfortunately, the weak kneed Paul VI buckled under his influence. He was so completely out of touch there was a joke that he hailed a cab and told the driver to take him to the Council, and the drive inquired if that was Vatican I or Vatican II.

[rug]

9. No, John XXIII called it, died, and Paul VI finished it.

John Paul II was elected 13 years after Vatican II ended.

But you're right about Vatican II. It was an opening that is quickly closing.

[Ken Burch]

12. The idea of a church based on love, rather than fear and shame

scared the hateful old men.

And they've been punishing the laity for it ever since.

[olegramps]

13. Correction

I meant to type wasn't and I did correct it at the time but didn't realized that it didn't take because of the restriction on the length of the Title.

[47of74]

10. Yes

Pius XII? Subtract III from that.

He and the other bishops seem to be under the impression that if they drive away everyone who is even the slightest bit progressive that the church will come back bigger and better than ever.

[Ken Burch]

11. You're saying they'll start kidnapping Jewish children and forcibly converting them again?

Oh...great...Mel will be thrilled...he'll probably LEAD the kidnappings(and leave phone messages for the moms of the kidnapped).

How long 'til we get "Auto-da-fé"s live on EWTN? With the stake burnings available on "Pay-For-View"?

Somewhere, the ghosts of Dorothy Day, Father Groppi, and Sr. Corita Kent are weeping.