Under what precedent does the Catholic Church recognise the Gingrich's third marriage?

[olegramps]

It was my understanding that the Catholic Church's teaching was that he would still be married to his first wife until her death and would be considered to be married to his second wife and be living in adultery with his third partner. It was my understanding that he could not partake in the sacraments until he agreed to not have any conjugal relations and live a life of celibacy. How does he get away with absolutely contradicting the teachings of Jesus on this matter?

[klook]

1. I think it's the Bag-o'-Cash Doctrine. (n/t)

[nxylas]

4. Or the IOKIYAR doctrine

It's OK if you're a Republican.

[Renew Deal]

2. Did his third marriage take place in a Catholic Church?

[olegramps]

7. That would seem to not be in keeping with Jesus teaching.

There wasn't any such thing as the Catholic Church. Jesus was a Jew expressing the firm teachings of the Judaism. Marriage is made between the two people who take voes and it is my understanding that the Catholic Church teaching is the priest is witnessing the procedure. It seems to me that the Catholic Church has not only stretched the teaching of its indissolubility by abandoned it in practice. Admittedly, it is a tough teaching to accept, but a number of Jesus' teaching are also difficult like his response to the wealthy young man who he told to sell all that he had and give it to the poor. The situation in Israel was one in which there existed the masses of poor and the 1% with all the wealth. Sounds kind of familiar.

[hedgehog]

3. In theory, the annulment process determines that a sacramental

marriage never took place because of obstacles such as non-consummation or because one or both parties was incapable of giving proper consent or because one or both parties was incapable of contracting a marriage or the requirements for a sacramental marriage were not met. So, if Newt was not married in a Christian Church or if his wife was technically married to someone else (ie didn't have an annulment) or if he was coerced into the marriage (his first wife was about 10 years older than him, IIRC) or if he went through a wedding without understanding the requirements of marriage and therefore wasn't able to give proper consent ..........then his first and second marriages could be annulled. In practice, most Americans who pursue it can get an annulment if they want one. This annoys the hell out of the Vatican which can't understand why Americans just don't keep a mistress like the Europeans.

It sounds like circular thinking, but the fact that Newt wanted an open marriage could qualify him as not giving proper consent and understanding to contract a sacramental marriage. In other words, I'm not really married to that lady because I want to have sex with this lady.

[CBHagman]

12. After reading that my head is starting to ache.

And of course to me it sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too, if I may use that expression here.

In any event, it's a funny old church. Many years ago I stumbled on a book about a couple who converted to Catholicism and decided their original marriage was not valid in the eyes of God and therefore decided to live in a Josephite marriage. When I read that, it sounded utterly twisted, but I don't happen to know the details of their marriage and why they reached that decision.

[Kingofalldems]

5. Was she going to Communion while being Newt's mistress?

[CBHagman]

10. That I cannot say, but she has long sung at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate...

....Conception. And I've attended Mass there and know that worshipers are given very strict guidelines for determining whether they ought to receive the Eucharist or not.


An article on Callista Gingrich's association with the choir:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/callista-gingrich-brings-attention-to-basilica-of-the-national-shrine-choir/2011/12/11/gIQAhMxOwO_story.html

[hedgehog]

11. Everything else aside - the notion of a paid choir just seems totally wrong!

[Matilda]

6. I didn't realise that Gingrich was Catholic,

albeit a recent convert. It doesn't quite gel with the three marriages and numerous affairs, does it?

I found a number of websites discussing it, but this one from Mark Oppenheimer sums it up quite succintly:

"I don't personally think that the quality of one's husbandry has any correlation to the quality of his presidential governance. But I do think that a man trying so hard to get the Christian vote should be pressed harder on these questions. As I wrote in the Times, Gingrich has worked hard to make it look as if he has made amends—but if his newfound Catholicism is to mean anything (he converted in 2009), and if his apology to wife #2 is to mean anything, we should know a) what the story of his marriage to wife #1 was, and b) if and how he cynically manipulated, or ignored, Catholic marriage canon law."

http://markoppenheimer.com/front-page/gingrich-wife-1-the-annulment-game-and-wife-2.html


You could be forgiven for thinking that not only Gingrich, but the Catholic Church, has some clarifying to do.

[47of74]

8. Here's a hint...

[demosincebirth]

9. Please explain.

[Matilda]

13. I don't want to speak for the previous poster,

but it's very hard to avoid the belief that money seems to talk.

I recommend Sheila Rauch Kennedy's book, "Shattered Faith", an account of the annulment of her marriage to Congressman Joseph Kennedy. It makes very sad reading, and it's awfully hard not to believe that the Kennedy money and name was paramount in the decision to annul their marriage of twelve years in order that he could marry somebody else.

I also recall what I think was the very cynical annulment of Frank Sinatra's first marriage to Nancy Barbato. She was a devout Catholic and had never considered remarriage at any time because she believed the Church's teaching that her marriage was indissoluble. But when he married Barbara Marx (his sixth?), who had converted to Catholicism, she was eager to bring Frank back into the Church, and his first marriage was duly annulled. It was a slap in the face to Nancy and to their three children, and is the reason why the children all hate their stepmother. Again, it's very hard to believe that Frank didn't give a sizeable donation to the church at some point in the proceedings.

I personally think there is less shame in giving all Catholics a second chance than in the present sham of annulments, in which the rich and powerful always get their way.

[JoyN62]

14. The First Two Marriages Were Not In The Church

If Gingrich was married outside the church, say in a civil ceremony, it is easy to get an annulment through the Church. If they were married in the Church than it is a lot harder.

[benld74]

15. The Dead Presidents precedent