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Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 07:33 AM Jun 2013

Fire tornado - first time one's been documented...

I think by documented, they mean studied one where they got footage and photos of it. I didn't think they existed, and remember scoffing at my Dad who lives at the foot of Mt. Arawang when he told me the next day he saw a big tornado. I believed the fireball that went down my parents street, but not the tornado...

Anyway, for anyone interested in freaky and rare stuff, this might interest you, even though the tornado was only an F2 and nowhere near the size of the monsters tornados they get over in the US...

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fire tornado - first time one's been documented... (Original Post) Violet_Crumble Jun 2013 OP
Simply amazing! n/t durbin Jun 2013 #1
Maybe not WovenGems Jun 2013 #2
There are very definite accounts thucythucy Jun 2013 #3
Apparently, there is a distinction between a firestorm and a fire tornado ... eppur_se_muova Jun 2013 #9
Whoa Nelly libodem Jun 2013 #4
Welcome to the future... hunter Jun 2013 #5
That was an interesting article... Violet_Crumble Jun 2013 #6
This is what I see out my bedroom window: hunter Jun 2013 #7
Eucs WovenGems Jun 2013 #13
Missionary Ridge fire near Durango, Colorado, June 9, 2002 ... eppur_se_muova Jun 2013 #8
An amazing discovery. I had not heard of a fire tornado before. DreamGypsy Jun 2013 #10
Oops, I missed the earlier reference to the Peshtigo Fire. /nt necso Jun 2013 #11
I like how almost-bored the guy sounded when he said "this is rather frightening." (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #12

thucythucy

(8,069 posts)
3. There are very definite accounts
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 09:33 AM
Jun 2013

of at least one fire tornado at Hamburg. And I would imagine you're probably right about Tokyo and Dresden as well.

eppur_se_muova

(36,269 posts)
9. Apparently, there is a distinction between a firestorm and a fire tornado ...
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 01:44 PM
Jun 2013

and no tornado reports were associated with any of these bombings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm

The only true fire tornado I had heard of previously was the one at Peshtigo, WI, which tossed locomotives around: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshtigo_Fire
http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780805072938

hunter

(38,317 posts)
5. Welcome to the future...
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jun 2013

...this is probably something we'll be seeing more of as the climate changes.

Hey, anyone want to talk about those Eucalyptus trees they want to cut down on the University of California Berkeley campus?

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2013/06/11/uc-berkeley-expert-talks-about-hillside-tree-removal-plan




Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
6. That was an interesting article...
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 10:49 AM
Jun 2013

Eucalypts are a protected species here, so it's weird reading about a whole bunch of them about to be removed. I always thought the big danger from them was that their branches drop a lot easier than other trees, and when I was a kid I was taught never to shelter under a gum tree if it was windy and raining. Though they like fire and need it to really thrive, and are really, really combustible. Ones round here that were burnt in the fire came back with heaps more growth over the last few years.

I guess if I was in California I'd be reasonably comfortable with their plan, but nothing beats regular burn-offs. If they can do it here near residential areas, they should give it a try there. We get warned when they're going to happen, and they warn people with respiratory problems to stay indoors, but yr probably looking at far denser populations there than you are here, so maybe it's not feasible...

hunter

(38,317 posts)
7. This is what I see out my bedroom window:
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jun 2013


The trees are very invasive here in California and truly frightening in the wind. They drop huge branches easily big enough to kill people or crash automobiles.

When I was a kid controlled burns were common but they stopped for air quality and liability reasons. Sometimes the fires would get away. I've seen some fearsome eucalyptus fueled wildfires.

Furthermore, just about the only thing that will grow under the trees is poison oak. Touching poison oak causes a bad rash for most people. Smoke from poison oak is just as bad and could kill someone who is extremely sensitive to it.



Goats, dogs, and cats have no problem with poison oak. Goats will eat it. But touching an animal that's been wandering through it will give you a rash. If our dogs have been in the poison oak, even if we only suspect they have, we bathe them.

We have dingos around here too. Nobody knows where they came from. No, they are not "American Dingos" (otherwise known as Carolina Dogs). They are feral and generally as invisible as coyotes.


eppur_se_muova

(36,269 posts)
8. Missionary Ridge fire near Durango, Colorado, June 9, 2002 ...
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jun 2013
http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/training/visit/training_sessions/wildland_fire_detection_using_satellite_imagery/firestorm_induced_tornado/

At this point the extremely violent updraft combined with the storm induced shear began to form a mesocyclone on the southwest flank of the fire plume. A rotating wall cloud like structure began lowering to the ground. Subsequent damage survey found F3-like damage to trees in the area. This damage estimate may be biased since the wood in the trees was extremely dry due to drought and heat from the fire. This feature can be seen in its entirety in this video clip (105 MB). As another option this can be downloaded in two smaller segments. segment 1 (21 MB) and segment 2 (65 MB). At times small fire vortices were drawn into the main circulation resulting in burned automobiles found amongst unburned but wind damaged vehicles. Here is short clip (4 MB) of one of these vortices.

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
10. An amazing discovery. I had not heard of a fire tornado before.
Thu Jun 13, 2013, 02:13 PM
Jun 2013

I did a bit of research and found this (shorter, 1:51) National Geographic video that shows the initial formation of a funnel during a fire in Hawaii: Environment News: Fire Tornado Filmed in Hawaii. The video isn't linkable so go to the link to view.



I like songs that tell stories ('folk' songs). One of my favorite examples of these is Cold Missouri Waters by Canadian singer-songwriter James Keelaghan, which tells, in five verses, the story of the Mann Gulch fire in Montana in 1949 - one of the most tragic fires in the United States in terms of the number of firefighters who died in the blaze. The story of the fire was also captured in the book Young Men and Fire by Norman McLean.

The Mann Gulch fire occurred in high wind conditions as well, with lots of drive trees and grass, which led to the tragedy. No fire tornado though.

It was hot, with a temperature of 97 degrees, and the fire danger rating was high, rated 74 out of a possible 100. Wind conditions that day were turbulent.


Here is James Keelaghan recounting the story:





Thanks for the post, VC. My wife is from Melbourne. Her two sons and six granddaughters live in Sydney and Melbourne, as well as her brother and sister and many extended family. We are always concerned about the reports of fires in Oz. I visited the beautiful city of Canberra in the mid-eighties.


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