Wolf to Dog: Scientists Agree on How, but Not Where

[jtuck004]

Where did dogs come from? That simple question is the subject of a scientific debate right now. In May, a team of scientists published a study pointing to East Asia as the place where dogs evolved from wolves. Now, another group of researchers has announced that dogs evolved several thousand miles to the west, in Europe. This controversy is intriguing even if you’re not a dog lover. It illuminates the challenges scientists face as they excavate the history of any species from its DNA.
...
Now Dr. Wayne and his colleagues are introducing a new line of evidence to the dog debate: ancient DNA. Over the past two decades, scientists have developed increasingly powerful tools to rescue fragments of DNA from fossils, producing “an explosion in the samples,” said Beth Shapiro of the University of California, Santa Cruz, a collaborator with Dr. Wayne.
...
The scientists did not find that living dogs were closely related to wolves from the Middle East or China. Instead, their closest relatives were ancient dogs and wolves from Europe. “It’s a simple story, and the story is they were domesticated in Europe,” Dr. Shapiro said. But Dr. Savolainen said the analysis was flawed. “It’s not a correct scientific study, because it’s geographically biased,” he said.
...
Dr. Wayne is not quite so pessimistic. He and his colleagues are hoping to widen their scope and find more DNA from fossils of dogs outside of Europe, while also looking at the genes of living dogs that might hold important clues. Yet he thinks it unlikely that the new evidence will change the basic conclusion of his latest study. “But there have been so many surprises in the history of this research on dog domestication that I’m holding my breath till we get more information,” Dr. Wayne said.

Here.

According to this dogs evolved back when the hunters were taking game in Europe, and the killings left a lot of food on the table for wolves to subsist on. Eventually they became separated and domesticated by the hunters. But it could have happened in China...

I wonder what the odds are that it happened in both places? I have an English Setter, and what we guess might be a Korean Jindo mix. And they look at the world from completely different perspectives, I think. And the Anatolian combines behaviors of both of them.

[Warpy]

1. Dollars to donuts, the Neanderthals did it first.

Dogs have been domesticated for a long time. I would imagine our relationship with small cats has been a bit longer since they're the only species that seems to like us without being trained to. Our messy eating habits draw their prey.

[kaiden]

2. Here is what I wonder:

How long before dogs will have human speech?

[Marrah_G]

3. I have a combination of both!

Last spring I adopted a 3/4 Siberian husky, 1/4 wolf puppy. He is so beautiful and the light of my days Dealing with the wolf traits is a challenge sometimes, but he is so sweet and funny, that it's all worth it.

Maybe they evolved in both places!

[jtuck004]

4. Friend of mine has that mix - she is great. As you said,

challenging. I have had few dogs that could match her ability to rip things apart, and she likes to jump up on a couple of sheds then on top of the garage next to his house where she surveys the neighborhood.

She is terribly dog-aggressive, however, so I told him in no uncertain terms that he would have to manage her, else she would be taken and killed. So far he has done ok, and she is getting a little older. I sure hope they make it, because to people she is as sweet as they get, even though she thinks nothing of grabbing your leg and pulling you into playing whatever game is in her head. Never bites, but is pretty strong.

I don't know why, given conditions and what humans came from, that dogs couldn't have evolved from wolves in two different places. I realize that's not the simple answer, but it works for me.

[Marrah_G]

5. You have to be really dominant with them, but never violent

It's a really fine line. My Kona is not dog aggressive at all and even the cat chases him off, but he is protective when someone comes in the house, even a bit jealous. I am extremely careful with him in new situations and we practice obedience training every day. Small things like him never going in or out of a door before me is a big deal. You have to think like they do. They can also be mouthy, so you have to always be on top of things, correcting behavior.

By far our biggest thing is his intense pack mentality and never wanting to be alone...not even in a separate room. We are his pack and he wants to be next to us always. He has a constant need to lick and touch and be right in the middle of things. He will howl like he's dying when I am in another room sometimes. We are working on that....

He hasn't been destructive, except for one night when he found a pillow on the floor and apparently had a wonderful time ripping all the fluff out of it. He now sleeps locked in a crate beside my bed instead of sleeping on the floor beside my bed. I say "bedtime" and he follows me in and goes right into the crate.

Another thing was that about a month ago he just refused to eat. Even the Blue buffalo wilderness he refused. So I did some digging and found that they really don't like kibble. Now he gets chunky canned food and real beef and bones. Which brings me to bones. The best bones for I have found are just raw beef bones (the meat dept at the grocery will cut up the leg bones for you) Nothing on the planet makes him happier then cleaning off the bone and then spending hours licking out the marrow.

Toys are a challenge as they can pretty much destroy anything with fabric, rope or thin plastic literally 30 minutes or less from the time you give it to them. I got him Kong toys, the heavy kind, and those are holding up well. Also big balls that he can't quite get completely in his mouth are best. He kicks them, chases them, but can't get a good bite on them.

Is your friend on DU?

[jtuck004]

6. Is your friend on DU? No, he's not much of a computer person

But they do sound like very similar dogs.

Her has had a hard life. His parents never really sent him to school, so he doesn't read well, tries to make a living with odd jobs and hauling firewood in from out of town. He is a GREAT framing carpenter, (that's how we met. He was a neighbor, and helped me add an addition after I had to let the first guy go), but, of course, such work is nearly non-existent now. He also has a record (ran from the police when he was younger and drunk) and recently his wife left him. So it is just him and the dog. He has been very good for years, but got in trouble again the other day, which probably wouldn't have happened if there was some work out there. I'm just hoping he can take care of the dog, because none of his friends can do the job he can with her, and we have the legal limit.

I try to make it over there when I can, and she knows exactly who I am and what she can do. I'm about the only one she will sit for (hot dogs are great treats), I taught her some things when I took care of her while he was out of town a couple times. Every time she sees me she starts throwing behaviors like that at me, to see if I have something for her, and I usually do

[Marrah_G]

7. Baby carrots are good too :)

Take a picture next time you are there. I'd love to see a picture of her!

[jtuck004]

8. Ok, I'll try and remember.

Yeah, I use carrots too. Most of our dogs like them.

My Jindo mix is the funniest. She watches things coming through the air toward her and evaluates them while they are airborne. If she knows what it is, she grabs it. If it is something she doesn't recognize right off, she lets it fall, then sniffs at it. If it is something she doesn't like she tries to bury it.

But she pretty well likes carrots. She likes sweet-potato chips, but doesn't like whole-grain chips. Lets those fall and walks away.

But almost all of them like vegetables, nearly always raw.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

9. One of my Great Pyrenees likes candied ginger

[Marrah_G]

11. really? I never would have thought of that

Where do you get it?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

12. Which, the ginger or the Pyr?

The ginger is Trader Joe's Crystallized Candied Ginger. The Pyr came from Great Pyrenees Rescue of Central Illinois.

I was eating some, Amadeus came to have a sniff, and I offered him a bit. He ate it. Three or four times, I was having some ginger, Amadeus came by to beg, and I offered him another piece. He ate it. Apparently, he likes it.

In the Jewish Talmud, in relation to the dietary laws, the question is raised, "What is food?" The answer can be summarized as, "If a dog will eat it, it's food."

[Marrah_G]

13. Thanks! will check out Trader Joes :)

[Marrah_G]

10. Wow that is awesome

That is one talented dog!