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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 06:12 PM Sep 2014

A Strange Cloud Over St. Louis Turns Out to Be an Enormous Swarm of Butterflies

Late last week, meteorologists in St. Louis noticed a cloud acting peculiarly: It was beating a path toward Mexico while changing into a variety of odd shapes. Was it a radar glitch? The debris signature of a south-moving tornado?

The answer was more heartening—and bizarre. After analyzing the reflections, the National Weather Service concluded they showed an immense swarm of Monarch butterflies migrating to their winter home in the Mexican mountains:



Here's how it technically arrived at that conclusion, for the weather geeks out there:

Keen observers of our radar data probably noticed some fairly high returns moving south over southern Illinois and central Missouri. High differential reflectivity values as well as low correlation coefficient values indicate these are most likely biological targets. High differential reflectivity indicates these are oblate targets, and low correlation coefficient means the targets are changing shape. We think these targets are Monarch butterflies. A Monarch in flight would look oblate to the radar, and flapping wings would account for the changing shape! NWS St. Louis wishes good luck and a safe journey to these amazing little creatures on their long journey south!


more

http://www.citylab.com/weather/2014/09/a-strange-cloud-over-st-louis-turns-out-to-be-an-enormous-swarm-of-butterflies/380614/
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A Strange Cloud Over St. Louis Turns Out to Be an Enormous Swarm of Butterflies (Original Post) n2doc Sep 2014 OP
That's great to hear. tecelote Sep 2014 #1
Estimate possibly 90% decline in monarch population Tansy_Gold Sep 2014 #6
Me too. tecelote Sep 2014 #7
almost as evil as Tansy_Gold Sep 2014 #8
So much greater a threat than middle eastern terrorists. tecelote Sep 2014 #9
If you're in the middle east, schedule a visit to the Greek island of Rhodes off of Turkey's coast cascadiance Sep 2014 #37
I've seen more this year than I ever have OKNancy Sep 2014 #22
That's good news. I'd heard that the Monarchs were on the way to extinction. Louisiana1976 Sep 2014 #2
Agreed. nt littlemissmartypants Sep 2014 #4
yes. 90% lost over the past 20 years. robinlynne Sep 2014 #30
Please cross post in weather watchers. Thank you. nt littlemissmartypants Sep 2014 #3
Kicking. littlemissmartypants Sep 2014 #5
such an interesting story, thanks for posting ! nt steve2470 Sep 2014 #10
That's good news. I have only seen one Monarch all summer. Arkansas Granny Sep 2014 #11
Oh man, this is so freaky after watching "Under The Dome" last night! bananas Sep 2014 #12
that is so cool pleinair Sep 2014 #26
I was thinking the same thing... That perhaps a dome was going to settle down on Ferguson! cascadiance Sep 2014 #35
I work w/native plants and ecological restoration Botany Sep 2014 #13
I'm thrilled to hear this, Botany. BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2014 #21
2 good books ****** bugs are good! Botany Sep 2014 #23
thanks Botany! BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2014 #24
thanks for the book recs pleinair Sep 2014 #27
Those books changed the way I work and see things. Botany Sep 2014 #29
wonderful to know pleinair Sep 2014 #34
much to my neighbors distain, i refuse to pull flowering weeds. mopinko Sep 2014 #25
My wife and I just had an argument about clearing out "weeds" in the yard NickB79 Sep 2014 #32
to me "weeds" are non native invasive plants Botany Sep 2014 #36
"And I dreamed I saw the bomber death planes riding shotgun in the sky," LiberalEsto Sep 2014 #14
My wife and I havn't seen a single Monarch butterfly this season here in Ma. CentralMass Sep 2014 #15
Are you sure it wasn't next-generation drones flying over Ferguson to spy on "outside agitators"? RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #16
I saw a yellow butterfly tavernier Sep 2014 #17
Ironic that they are flying over St. Louis, home to Monsanto n/t Bluestar Sep 2014 #18
About 10 years ago locks Sep 2014 #19
I think there is a place in Pacific Grove, CA where they stop on their journey. pennylane100 Sep 2014 #20
very heartening to hear pleinair Sep 2014 #28
kind of doubting the image. almost the size of the state? seriously? robinlynne Sep 2014 #31
I hope their conclusion is right, as we used to have tons of monarchs in Iowa, Frustratedlady Sep 2014 #33

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
1. That's great to hear.
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 06:19 PM
Sep 2014

Five or so years ago we had five to ten times as many Monarchs. This year we rarely saw them. Fewer Tiger Swallowtails as well.

It's surprising that this is a meteorologic event. This has not been seen before on radar?

Tansy_Gold

(17,860 posts)
6. Estimate possibly 90% decline in monarch population
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 06:31 PM
Sep 2014

Due to eradication of milkweed, thanks to GMO crops that tolerate more pesticides as well as increased cultivation for fuel-production crops.

I hope this signals an increase.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
37. If you're in the middle east, schedule a visit to the Greek island of Rhodes off of Turkey's coast
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 04:05 PM
Sep 2014

It has a lot of great places to visit as a tourist, but the most amazing thing I remember from going there as a kid was the Valley of the Butterflies there.

You walk through a relatively dark green forest, and someone throws a rock at a tree, and suddenly everything around you turns bright orange, as tens of thousands of Monarchs all start flying and light up the place. It really is an amazing sight of all of those beautiful creatures.

You can imagine that if suddenly all of these started flying off of this tree here.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
12. Oh man, this is so freaky after watching "Under The Dome" last night!
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 07:22 PM
Sep 2014
Also beautiful—and strange—is that the shape of the swarm itself resembles a giant butterfly. The last time that sort of radar coincidence happened may have been in 2011, when thousands of birds formed into a bird shape above Beebe, Arkansas, right before falling out of the sky, dead.



 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
35. I was thinking the same thing... That perhaps a dome was going to settle down on Ferguson!
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 02:36 PM
Sep 2014

Perhaps it isn't enough that Ferguson is connected through television with the SyFy show Defiance being located in St. Louis. Maybe this connection is going to happen too and some spiritual force will put a dome on top of Ferguson until people can settle down and act like decent human beings there.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
13. I work w/native plants and ecological restoration
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 07:37 PM
Sep 2014

In 2013 I saw 10 monarchs .... this year I have seen too many to count.

people can make a difference .... plant your milkweeds, other native plants,
and avoid insecticides



BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
21. I'm thrilled to hear this, Botany.
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 10:53 PM
Sep 2014

I know there's a milkweed planting movement underway. I transplanted a couple milkies from my friend's place to my place.

I don't use pesticides...and I'm tempted to make a lawn sign saying no pesticides here. Lotta Tru-green poison customers here.

I miss the billions of ladybugs, lightening bugs and alllllllllll the other critters when I lived out in the boondocks.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
23. 2 good books ****** bugs are good!
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 12:18 AM
Sep 2014




*************

Don't get me wrong sometimes i have to use chemicals in order to help restore more
"natural like" ecosystems aka get rid of non native invasive plants but insecticides should
only be used on a very limited basis.

Bringing the good bugs back into your yard is really simple ........ your neighbors w/their
lawns and traditional landscapes are limiting their chances to be functioning parts of
a healthy environment ...... but a friend of mine who runs The Prairie Nursery in Wisconsin
told me that not too long ago the old ball had their homes in native plants but now in some
areas it is the odd ball who has a lawn.


BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
24. thanks Botany!
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 08:44 AM
Sep 2014

I've got an appointment with a natural focused landscaper soon.

A zillion years ago I turned my townhouse into a wildlife preserve, with the help of my boyfriend at that time. Wish I took pics! Moved out to the country after that, ..Sooooo beautiful! Sigh....

Now I'm back in civilization, and would love it if I inspire anyone in the neighborhood.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
29. Those books changed the way I work and see things.
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 10:39 AM
Sep 2014

BTW I do have a 4 year degree in Botany/ecology and 30 years experience

mopinko

(70,120 posts)
25. much to my neighbors distain, i refuse to pull flowering weeds.
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 09:47 AM
Sep 2014

something brought them, something needs them. unless they are interfering with crops, i let them be. grasses, too.

i am rewarded with a steady stream of butterflies all summer. i have seen a fair number of monarchs this year. not swarms, mostly singles, but on many days.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
32. My wife and I just had an argument about clearing out "weeds" in the yard
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 10:56 AM
Sep 2014

Our property butts up against a cornfield, and I planted it in with wild plum, chokeberry, hazel, bush cherry, and juneberries. Between them I just let the weeds grow wild. We have a lot of milkweed growing there, and I actively spread the seeds when they ripen. The neighbors on either side mow their grass right up to the cornfield, and weed-whip what the mower can't get. I swear they actually go INTO the cornfield to get the last remaining weeds.

My wife wanted me to do that too, because it looked nice in her opinion.

I've refused, because that's not nice. It's barren, it's dead. I LIKE having wildlife in the yard, even if they occassionally munch on my garden vegetables.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
36. to me "weeds" are non native invasive plants
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 02:51 PM
Sep 2014

burning bush, flowering pear, purple loosestrife, ivy, thistles, honeysuckle,
vinca minor, privet, phragmites, norway maple, buckthorn, and so on depending
on your part of the country.

putting the pieces back together of our native ecological communities is a long term
and generational effort but it can be very rewarding too.

1 hint: if by making a "wild area" look a little more "kepted up" you can go a long way in
helping the environment. If you don't understand what i mean PM and i'll get back w/you
... right now I'll be out of town for 3 days.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
14. "And I dreamed I saw the bomber death planes riding shotgun in the sky,"
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 07:41 PM
Sep 2014

"turning into butterflies above our nation."-- Woodstock, by Joni Mitchell

If only...

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
16. Are you sure it wasn't next-generation drones flying over Ferguson to spy on "outside agitators"?
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 07:51 PM
Sep 2014

I hear they're making them pretty small.



I've got a well-known Monarch meeting place right down the road from me (they dine on eucalyptus), and I've definitely noticed their numbers diminishing.

tavernier

(12,392 posts)
17. I saw a yellow butterfly
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 08:19 PM
Sep 2014

hovering over a bush last week. It was as big as a parrot, and in fact I thought it was just that. (We live in the tropics) Turned out it was just a larger kin to many other yellow butterflies, attracted to this particular flowering bush.

Lovely!

locks

(2,012 posts)
19. About 10 years ago
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 08:57 PM
Sep 2014

I saw the beautiful swarms of Monarchs both in California and in Mexico. They are one of nature's wonders and I hope our children and grandchildren will see them.

pennylane100

(3,425 posts)
20. I think there is a place in Pacific Grove, CA where they stop on their journey.
Tue Sep 23, 2014, 09:28 PM
Sep 2014

I seem to remember when I was down there one time, the place they stop at was closed during their stay, possibly not to disturb them.

I was wrong about closing the place, I just found this:

http://www.pacificgrove.org/things-to-do/top-attractions/monarch-butterflies/3

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
33. I hope their conclusion is right, as we used to have tons of monarchs in Iowa,
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 11:02 AM
Sep 2014

but I rarely see any these days. Our trees and flowers used to be covered with them before they migrated, but their favorite flowers are now only visited by bees or wasps. I looked forward to great photos of them feeding on my plants, but haven't seen that happen in the last five years or so.

Pretty amazing if their conclusion is true.

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