Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Rob H.

(5,352 posts)
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 03:30 PM Jul 2013

“God is not great”: Christopher Hitchens is not a liar (article)

From Salon.com. Full piece, chock full of lots of good stuff, is here.

“God is not great”: Christopher Hitchens is not a liar
A new book says the famed atheist thinker's writing on religion is intellectually sloppy. It gets Hitch wrong
By Carlo Dellora
Saturday, Jul 6, 2013 09:30 AM CDT


Christopher Hitchens (Credit: AP/Chad Rachman)

Of all the criticisms that could be leveled at Christopher Hitchens – and there are many – a boring style is not one of them. Despite some controversial positions and persuasions, his writing was always exciting, entertaining and engaging. Regrettably, the same cannot be said for Curtis White. In an excerpt from his recent book "The Science Delusion: Asking the Big Questions in a Culture of Easy Answers" published in Salon last week, White accuses the "notorious" Hitchens of some of journalism’s worst crimes – lying, dishonesty, shamefulness and an all-round lack of "decency." However, while running through a litany of examples apparently highlighting Hitchens' intellectual turpitude, White manages something remarkable. Rather than convicting Hitch of "telling less than he knew or ought to have known," White shows how it is in fact he who is literarily lazy, inconsistent and mendacious.

...

White's next point comes just as expected with the appeal to the moderate. Like many before him have done, White suggests that Hitchens' visceral resentment for all religions ignores "an important source for correcting the very real shortcomings of fundamentalism." In a subtle reworking of the stale "why focus on the extremists argument" White suggests that only by accepting religion can society attempt to redress its excesses. Hitchens has consistently refuted this line of argument, contending that even seemingly moderate religions are in essence a kind of extremism as they reject the most basic forms of reason and instead trust a faith that praises an unseen creator and runs counter to most objective notions of reality. Furthermore, Hitchens saw moderates as facilitators of the abhorrent extremist brand of religiosity that threatens abortion clinics and blinds "adulterous" women with acid. When the Danish cartoon controversy erupted in 2005 Hitchens was shocked to see that moderate adherents to Christianity and Islam spent their time decrying the cartoons but not the violence itself, ignoring the murderous mobs who had taken to the streets in reply. This was illustrative of a broader issue, namely, that moderate religiosity provides a plinth upon which a firebrand version of any faith can be constructed, moderation in essence creating the environment necessary for extremism to thrive.

It is here that White finally comes to the point that he and many others like him have been making for at least the last decade – that the "new-atheist" movement is just another religion. A contention that echoes the twist at the end of the mediocre Hollywood blockbuster, atheism is religion. White asserts that Hitchens' reliance on enlightenment reason is a metaphysical claim and tantamount to the faith-based logic of the religiously inclined. White asks: "What is 'reason' for Hitchens? Your guess is as good as mine. Is it the rules of logic? Is it the scientific method? Is it Thomas Paine's common sense? Some combination of the above?"

Yes, here White is correct. We should understand what made up Hitchens' irreligious principles and ethical framework. How can we possibly be expected to trust a man who decries religion yet offers very little in the way of a description or framework of ethics as an alternative? Except, he does. On the very same page, in the very same paragraph that White quotes, Hitchens succinctly and brilliantly outlines his own version of an ethical and principled kind of reason: "Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, open mindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake."


All emphases above added by yours truly.
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
“God is not great”: Christopher Hitchens is not a liar (article) (Original Post) Rob H. Jul 2013 OP
Yes, everyone but the fawning, reason-challenged skepticscott Jul 2013 #1
You...you...militant atheist! onager Jul 2013 #7
I notice it seems easier to attack atheists once they are dead. For some reason their dimbear Jul 2013 #2
Yes. Hitchens had the best retorts ever. Better even than Dawkins. n/t SwissTony Jul 2013 #3
Better even than Dawkins. AlbertCat Jul 2013 #5
Yes, it always amazes me that Dawkins is described as "angry" and "militant". SwissTony Jul 2013 #6
The cherrry-picking doesn't seem to stop, either Rob H. Jul 2013 #4
Hitchens was a Warmonger. (nt) stone space May 2014 #8
Hitchens was a Warmonger. AlbertCat May 2014 #9
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
1. Yes, everyone but the fawning, reason-challenged
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 04:07 PM
Jul 2013

religionistas over on Religion had pretty much ripped White to shreds as a hack and intellectually bankrupt. The usual cast of idiots had proclaimed White's piece as a "great read" or something to that effect, but I'm sure they'll give no such accolades to this one (if they even bother to look at it).

onager

(9,356 posts)
7. You...you...militant atheist!
Sun Jul 7, 2013, 03:06 PM
Jul 2013


You're right. I saw the usual clique of robo-posters in Religion, proclaiming that they only smelt the scent of roses and fairy-water arising from White's steaming pile.

This was my favorite Hitchens quote from the OP above: "We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason."

Or we should, anyway, IMO. But as I've griped before, atheism does not necessarily lead to skepticism. And vice versa. Roaming around the Internetz, I've met atheists who believe in ghosts and psychics, and religious believers who are perfectly OK with Darwin and DNA but still believe a Supreme Creator Of The Universe cares deeply about their personal lives.

I'd think a rigorously applied "general skepticism" should lead you away from religion, in the end. Or conversely, once you've decided Santa/God doesn't exist, that would lead to general skepticism about ghosts and psychics etc.

Well, obviously I'd think very wrong. The human ability to compartmentalize this stuff is really amazing.






dimbear

(6,271 posts)
2. I notice it seems easier to attack atheists once they are dead. For some reason their
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 05:30 PM
Jul 2013

usual stinging and witty retorts are diminished after that transition.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
5. Better even than Dawkins.
Sun Jul 7, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jul 2013

That's because Dawkins is a mild mannered even nerdy, quiet (compared to the religious) Englishman, not the rabid, confrontational extremist religionistas like to pretend he is. AND he still destroys their ideas utterly.

SwissTony

(2,560 posts)
6. Yes, it always amazes me that Dawkins is described as "angry" and "militant".
Sun Jul 7, 2013, 01:42 PM
Jul 2013

Even when he's quiet, polite and friendly. Never raises his voice, never gets sarcastic.

Maybe logic and science are "angry" and "militant".

Rob H.

(5,352 posts)
4. The cherrry-picking doesn't seem to stop, either
Sun Jul 7, 2013, 01:22 PM
Jul 2013

It's bad enough that believers quote-mined Hitchens while he was alive, but my advice to Curtis White is if he can't make a valid point without blatantly misrepresenting the very plain written words of someone who's no longer with us, it might be time for him to consider a different profession.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
9. Hitchens was a Warmonger.
Sun May 4, 2014, 10:58 AM
May 2014

And nothing else. There is no need to know anything at all about him other than he was a war monger....he always was and never ever changed his views. It was his singular purpose for existence.













Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»Atheists & Agnostics»“God is not great”: Chris...