Losing My Religion?

[trotsky]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/04/losing_my_religion_.html

Remember that song by REM “Losing my religion”? It was quite a hit in the late 90s, early 2000…

Sadly, that’s how I have been feeling for quite some time now about my relation with my religion, Islam. A deep sadness and despair over the decay of the Arab world… since Boabdil, the Emir of Granada, surrendered the last Islamic bastion in Spain to the Catholic monarchs. The date was 2 January 1492. It marked the final stage of what is widely considered to have been a brilliant 800 year civilization.

The Arabs had just lost Al-Andalus. And the Arabs never recovered since. It’s been downhill since that fateful day. But who’s to blame? The usual scapegoats? The West? The Jews? The “Apostates”? All of them?

I say WE are to blame and no one else…

Powerful story, but I'm sure there are folks here on DU who have never been Muslims who would love to tell him how wrong he is.

[nil desperandum]

1. Indeed

when the zenith of their religion was 1492, about the same time that Columbus set out for India and their religion's been on the decline ever since, well 500 plus years of decline and they are still wondering where the nadir is located it is indeed time to lose that religion.

It's time for that religion to cease as a player on the world stage and it's time for those adherents of that faith to walk away and look at another path. One that actually embraces humanity instead of trying to destroy it.

Islam is one of the world's cancers, and like all cancers it can't be reformed it has to be eradicated along with every other cancerous belief in fairy tales that incites people to hate the members of their society who don't conform.

Note to Jury: this is an opinion of a non-believer in the Atheists Forum safe haven, which means one should expect a non-believer to despise and/or outright reject religion in this forum and to comment so regularly.

I do not despise those adherents of faith who've been led to believe something that's not true, my concern for them is real that they can see there is no god and being taught to hate because of something that is make-believe is a true injustice.

I don't just despise islam I despise them all as control methods to harness individuals into a belief system that benefits those in power among the religion hierarchy. However, this particular article was about islam so I am addressing my thoughts towards islam. It doesn't make me a bigot against muslims it means I don't like religions, any of them. I will also express my distaste for christianity in articles about christian religions. Thank you for your consideration.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. That is a powerful story, and...

I can't imagine what it is to live like that.

Who's to blame? We are-- it's an unfortunate consequence of being human and the best hope is that we evolve out of it before we destroy ourselves.

Religion is but one excuse for being miserable to our fellows. Apartheid in South Africa (and our own South) Nazi death camps, Stalin's purges, Hutu-Tutsi wars... Religion had nothing to do with these, and they were state-sponsored, not some outlaw groups.

Pogo was right-- "We have met the enemy and it is us."

[trotsky]

3. The Armor of God

http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2009/11/armor-of-god.html

I'm realizing that everything I've ever written about religion's harm boils down to one thing.

It's this:

Religion is ultimately dependent on belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die.

It therefore has no reality check.

Humans, when armed with an unfalsifiable set of beliefs based on those items Ms. Christina lists, are particularly deadly to each other, and particularly resistant to changing their minds.

As she notes in her article, eventually people realized that the promises of Communism were false, and they rose up. Religion has no such check.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Well, you can go on blaming religion as the worst of the boogey-men...

but the body count is the body count. Religion wouldn't have half a chance trying to match Mao's purges if we humans weren't so ready to believe.

Is it really all religion's fault that we are so ready to believe in a perfect afterlife that we resist the hard work in making this a better present life? I would blame religion for taking advantage of our own faults, but they are first of all our own faults.

[trotsky]

5. Care to address the points made about the uniqueness of religion?

"Body counts" are more a function of increased killing efficiency with 20th century technology than anything else, I'd say.

At no point is anyone saying this is "all religion's fault," that's your straw man. I'm sure it's easier to argue against.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Care to addres my point about our gullibility...

Religion may have unprovable assertions, but since when do we care about proof?

Witness the anti-vaxers...

And I still say religion's greatest draw for the masses is the promise that after we're dead everything will even up. All scores will be settled and we don't have to do squat but say some prayers here in the present life. Gives us hope when we're being shit upon.

[trotsky]

9. Anti-vaxers?

Like this one? http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/anti-vaxxer-mind-7-kids-whooping-cough-article-1.2187390

Yes humans can be gullible. Yes they can hold fast to bad ideas. No one is disputing those things as far as I can see here.

Do you agree or disagree that when we legitimize a system that is based on "belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die" those problems become particularly difficult to address?

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Of course they do, it's just that...

religion is not always the motivator for evil. It often does good.

So, explain why a system that not only mobilizes our dark sides but also gives us hope and mobilizes our good sides is inherently evil.

[trotsky]

14. Well I'm glad we've established that your straw man is indeed in a world of hurt.

If you can find someone who states that religion is "always the motivator for evil" or "inherently evil" you've got yourself a debate opponent you can smash handily.

Or, if instead you want to address the claims of Greta Christina I have posted in this thread, please proceed. They are, once again for reference:

Religion is ultimately dependent on belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die.

It therefore has no reality check.

I await your response.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Nothing to address there....

Just a big "So what?"

[trotsky]

28. Great, then we agree! n/t

[AlbertCat]

26. Religion wouldn't have half a chance trying to match Mao's purges

I think the many many purges we know of and DON'T know of because they happened in prehistory that religion is responsible for would bury Mao's in bodies in a matter of seconds.

One must remember that until the USA.... religion was government. The king or emperor was also head of the church.... or paid tribute to the head of some church. The earlier you go, you have leaders being/ declaring themselves gods.

Religion is merely ancient government.

[beam me up scottie]

17. Religion had nothing to do with the Holocaust?

Are you really going to bring that apologist lie in here?

[TreasonousBastard]

19. What apologist lie? Jews were singled out...

for extermination, nobody's denying that.

More to the point of this discussion would be why they were scapegoated. It wasn't exactly over a theological disagreement.

[beam me up scottie]

20. Ask Martin Luther.

The lie that Hitler wasn't influenced by religion is apologist bullshit.

Just stop it.

[AlbertCat]

24. Nazi death camps,

I think they have "something" to do with religion.


All have to do with "tribalism"

[AlbertCat]

6. Hmmmmmm....

The song is about a relationship breaking up.... and not religion at all. I wish people would listen to the lyrics. REM is one of the few groups you can understand them!

(I'm having my back porch rebuilt and the guys doing it listen to country music. It's dreadful! But one thing I noticed is that one can hear.... even if it's outside or in another room.... you can hear the lyrics.... the stupid, sentimental, awful lyrics. All drinking, trying to get the girl or not getting the girl. Oh and buying chicken nuggets for their stupid kid )

[PassingFair]

8. ...and losing the girl...don't forget losing the girl.

[onager]

25. Then there's Taydolf Swiftler...

[mr blur]

11. Sorry about this, but just in case there's anyone who hasn't heard it -

Q: What happens if you play a country record backwards?

A: You stop drinking, your wife come back to you and your dog comes back to life.

(sorry...)

[AlbertCat]

12. That reminded me of this....

Q: what do a redneck divorce and a tornado have in common?

A: Someone's gonna lose a trailer.


(sorry)

[trotsky]

15. No need to be sorry for that one!

[onager]

27. And another...

It's a hot Southern day and 3 guys are having a beer in the local hangout - a blind guy, a guy with 1 arm, and a local redneck.

"You won't believe this," says the one-armed man. "But I see Jesus Christ sitting down at the end of the bar."

"No I don't believe it," says the blind guy. "What does he look like?"

"Just like in all the pictures. Hippie hair. Beard. Nail holes. Hey bartender! Give my man Jesus a beer!"

The bartender slides a beer down the bar. Jesus says "Thank you, my son." He gets up, walks down the bar, and touches the one-armed man gently on the shoulder.

"Holy shit! My damn ARM growed back!"

The blind man quickly yells for the bartender to set up Jesus. Again Jesus thanks him, and touches his eyes.

"I can SEE! I can SEE!"

The redneck gets up, starts for the door, and yells: "Don't you touch me, you bastard! I'm collecting Disability!"

[Promethean]

21. "lose my religion"

Was a euphemism a while back that meant becoming extremely angry or as a more modern euphemism "lose my temper."

[onager]

22. Yep, a common old saying in the South.

And REM was from Athens, GA.

[deucemagnet]

10. K&R for yet another great article posted in this forum. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

18. My heart aches for this man.

Islamic supremacists, Islamo-fascists, that’s what they are. The new Barbarians on the march against human civilization and progress in the name of a Jihad they embarked on…without consulting with me.

A new form of totalitarianism claiming legitimacy from the early days of the new religion, the “Final Revelation.”

One goal. And it’s a chilling one: The planet should submit or else. The word Islam after all, is synonymous with submission…Death to diversity, Death to science and technology, Death to human rights, Women’s rights, Dogs rights, No to Art! No to Music, No to Sex! No to Beauty! NO to pleasures! Haram, haram, haram…almost every human activity is HARAM. And Death to everybody who’s NOT them!

I used to consider myself a Muslim. Not the zealot type, far from it.... Although from a liberal-minded family in Algeria, we knew we were Muslims by birth. Then, the choice was ours to deal with this reality as we pleased.

I would never tell him that he should respect religion. Fuck anyone who thinks that.

[AlbertCat]

23. we knew we were Muslims by birth.

I would like to remind him, there is not a Muslim gene.

[trotsky]

29. As noted "self-described anti-theist" ;-) Richard Dawkins has said...

“A child is not a Christian child, not a Muslim child, but a child of Christian parents or a child of Muslim parents. This latter nomenclature, by the way, would be an excellent piece of consciousness-raising for the children themselves. A child who is told she is a 'child of Muslim parents' will immediately realize that religion is something for her to choose -or reject- when she becomes old enough to do so.”

[yortsed snacilbuper]

30. “Losing my religion” by REM