Breaking...2 Hours Before the Debate, Sanders Reveals his Health Plan; Raises Taxes.

[msanthrope]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/17/hours-before-debate-sanders-shares-details-of-health-plan-that-would-raise-income-taxes/

[saltpoint]

1. Enhanced social services of all

kinds have to be funded. Funding them likely involves tax revenue.

Said revenues invest in the quality of life for citizens generally and for citizens struggling to survive especially.

I personally can't cover the whole bill but would happily pay my fair share so that the services that are needed reach the people who need them.

[msanthrope]

25. That includes increasing your payroll taxes? nt

[saltpoint]

30. You missed the source point,

msanthrope. The question is whether the social services are essential for others' well-being.

They are.

A revenue source must be located to fund initiatives supporting those services.

Don't begin with the memorandum about the policy; begin with why the services are essential.

[daleanime]

57. Unless they don't see the services....

as essential.

[saltpoint]

76. I'm sure the 1 percent would say

those left out are undeserving of "free stuff" and would continue to conduct themselves in as Romneyesque a manner as possible.

Which is not to say Democrats should not oppose that kind of class privilege or abandon its commitment to needy populations.

[Fawke Em]

43. Cool! It still saves the average working family $3,000 a year

in just PREMIUMS. That doesn't even include deductibles.

[pangaia]

45. Funny how the obvious becomes invisible, is it not.

[daleanime]

58. +1

[Autumn]

61. $3,000 a year just in premiums?? Raise those taxes Bernie and take the subsidies from the ACA

to help and give America Medicare for All.

[arcane1]

69. And eliminating my insurance premiums and copays? Hell yes!!

A wise woman once said that Democrats should be ashamed of themselves if they argue against single payer. I wonder what happened to her...

[ladyVet]

140. She bought a pair of FLIP FLOPS. nt

[libdem4life]

129. "There ya go again." made famous by The Old Gipper...he'd be proud.

ETA: On a wild debate night

[libdem4life]

134. One note Samba ...do you have this on speed dial or closed loop tape? LOL

[leftofcool]

2. LMAO!

[tk2kewl]

6. Funny how?

[tk2kewl]

3. Great plan!

And very progressive tax plan. No more free rides for the rich.

[msanthrope]

18. Passing a payroll tax that employers will pass to workers is not progressive. nt

[earthside]

32. Are employers passing on the cost of insurance premiums now?

So, name me a way that we pay for health care that is strictly progressive and isn't paid for by somebody?

[uponit7771]

75. Yes, part of the reason wages are stagnant

[tk2kewl]

35. keep telling yourself that and ignore the rest of the planned taxes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128097790

Come back again and tell my why the marginal rates and capital gains taxes proposed aren't progressive

[uponit7771]

73. Those planned taxes don't exclude the 6.2% employers will pay... it doesn't say that anywhere

[tk2kewl]

80. I'm not opposed to the payroll tax, especially as part of plan...

that makes those most able to contribute pay their fair share. Why are you?

[uponit7771]

83. Because it's just moving the payment from HCI to government without lowering the total amount

... being paid.

8.4 (2.2 + 6.2)% of 50,000 is 4200 yearly + 466 is 4666 which is around 300 less than the HCI premiums explained in the plan...

I'm thinking my premiums are going down to 25% ... no 300 a year with shifted payments.

I'll pass

[tk2kewl]

88. and those who currently have nothing? just fuck 'em?

i hope your health and financial situation continue to allow you the luxury of blowing off a plan that doesn't save *you* enough to be worth while

[artislife]

125. They fritter away their dollars

Some of us go to the store knowing exactly how much we can spend and making choices as we shop. How many of you have put things back on the shelf when your mental arithmatic told you that you have gone over the limit.


Me. I had to put things back just last week.

[tazkcmo]

127. Yup.

Some, like myself, have so little to spend after rent and utilities the math is very easy so, yes, we know exactly what we can buy and it's not much.

[tk2kewl]

128. i just don't understand people who identify as democrats but only see

policies from the point of view of their own wallet.

it's par for the course from my republican friends but really... what part of "universal" health care are people having trouble understanding

[artislife]

130. It has been eye opening to say the least. nt

[seaglass]

139. Most of the people in this thread are thinking of themselves first and poor people second whether

they support this plan or not. There is not a side in this discussion that can claim altruism.

[tk2kewl]

142. the op framed the discussion that way

i don't think your claim that both sides are the same holds water

[ladyVet]

141. I would have had to put stuff back last week, but my mother loaned me $10.

I've had to do this almost my entire life. I can hardly remember a time I didn't have a price book in my head and a calculator in hand when I went shopping. Decisions had to be made about what we could do without. Many times risked going too long paying utilities because the kids had to eat.

I'd rather pay taxes for health care I can actually get, rather than for wars for profit. Let's face it, we will pay higher taxes. It just comes down to what they get spent on. If you're okay with making millionaires and billionaires richer, you probably don't belong here.

[uponit7771]

72. No no no!!! ALL US employers are great people and would just eat the 6.2% cause revolution /sarcasm

[Kentonio]

92. They'll be paying less than they do at the moment for goodness sake!

[uponit7771]

95. This is false on its face, most of the employers aren't paying 6.2% of wages into HCI they're

... currently passing that on to employees or not paying a damn thing at all outside of admin cost

[Kentonio]

98. If they're passing it onto employees through reduced wages

Then that's already happening! Why would a reduction in their costs possibly lead to a need to pass more cost onto the employee? That makes absolutely no sense.

[JonLeibowitz]

115. LOL! We could go in these circles all day. This will be fun.

[Warren Stupidity]

137. They've got their talking points and they are sticking to them.

[Warren Stupidity]

136. average per employee insurance cost paid by employers is 16k.

At 6.2% salaries around 300k will cost more, every other worker will cost less.

[TexasBushwhacker]

146. I don't know where you got that figure

Kaiser says the average employer contribution is $4.6K per year.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/single-coverage/

$4.6K is 6.2% of a $75K salary. Since that is considerably more than the average worker makes, most employers who already provide health insurance should come out ahead. I know our company will. I pay the bills.

[Warren Stupidity]

149. Actually that includes the employee portion.

My mistake. Employer average cost is around 12k as per the Kaiser 2015 survey.

[tk2kewl]

135. so do you believe insurance companies care about the care of their enrollees more

than their profits? do you think that removing the middleman won't reduce cost?

[Trajan]

82. I'd rather pay that tax increase and STOP paying my huge monthly premium ...

I will be paying less money ... Absolutely ...

Why aren't you mentioning that part? ...

Nobody likes to pay taxes, indeed ... But I would rather pay MORE taxes to a common fund than MORE premiums to a consortium of private corporations ....

More health care and less rip off ... Do you object?

[jberryhill]

94. So would I

[pugetres]

113. Is still saves an employer money...

As for employers, the 6.7 percent payroll tax means employers would put up $3,350 for family coverage. That’s also thousands less than the average employer premium contribution of $12,591. - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jan/13/how-much-would-bernie-sanders-health-care-plan-cos/ Here's a link to a chart showing the average costs for single employees and employers per state: http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/single-coverage/.

Right now, my husband's employer pays for 100% of his premiums. We have to pay for all of mine (around $350/month). My husband's premiums cost more because he is older. So I'm guessing it is safe to say that his premiums are at least $400/month. So, his employer pays at least $4800/year to insure my husband alone. A 2.2% tax on our income is way less than what we spend now. And, that would cover BOTH of us rather than just one of us.

The question in terms of employers' costs is would they pass on their savings to their employees?

[elleng]

4. Right, Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.

Revenue raised: $92 billion per year.

[msanthrope]

12. Yeah....except the payroll tax passed to the middle class will suck.

Also, he's never going to get a Congress to pass it.

[leftofcool]

19. Yep, pie in the sky will never pass

[Fawke Em]

48. The tax is lower than the penalty for not having ACA.

I'd rather pay less in taxes than keep paying a private insurance company.

But, keep acting as if we can't do a thing about the robber barons in this country. You'll soon find yourself affected.

[artislife]

103. Hillary Clinton= Taking over the party of NO!

Weak, scared and untrustworthy....she's a real leader!

[elleng]

24. Assume congress won't pass anything, and keeps us where we are ad infinitum.

● A 2.2 percentincome-based premium paid by households.
Revenue raised: $210 billion per year.

[msanthrope]

31. You didn't address the additional payroll taxes. nt

[elleng]

34. Not this?

A 2.2 percentincome-based premium paid by households.

If not, which line-item?

[msanthrope]

42. Um no. It helps if you read the article in full. You know...the nearly 7% increase in payroll

taxes that will be passed along to American workers.

[pangaia]

49. You DO understand, of course

that even with that increase, it is still cheaper than now for most people, do you not?
Plus employers should no longer have to pay workman's comp.

[Fawke Em]

51. And premiums and deductibles AREN'T?

[elleng]

53. I read the article,

found an item I thought responded to your post, and asked you to inform if there was another line item. Please provide it.

[questionseverything]

86. not fair to ignore the savings

Under Sanders’ plan, a family of four earning $50,000 would pay just $466 per year to the Medicare-for-all program.

Businesses would save more than $9,400 a year in health care costs under Sanders’ plan. The average annual cost to the employer for a worker with a family who makes $50,000 a year would go from $12,591 to just $3,100.

[Warren Stupidity]

123. 2.2%.

At least make your anti-tax republican talking point accurate.

[earthside]

44. I'll take a 2.2 percent 'premium' tax any day ...

... over this escalator of health insurance premiums.

And I'll bet most employers would love a 6.7 percent payroll tax for health care for the same reason.

[Fawke Em]

56. I'll find out for sure tomorrow, but I'm thinking that is far, far less than

what my companies pays for health insurance right now.

I think that right now, they pay about 20 percent per employee for healthcare insurance.

On Edit:

This is just an average, but most employers pay $11,176 per employee for healthcare coverage.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2013/10/17/in-2014-workers-share-of-health-costs-nearly-5000-at-large-companies/#2715e4857a0b4e371663068e

The employee, on average, picks up $2,500 for that cost (rising to $5,000 when other forms of deductibles and co-insurance are included), so the employer's share is $8,676. Based on this proposal, most employers would be paying about about $3,100 per employee. That's a savings of nearly $6,000.

So, yes, it's cheaper for the average employer, as well.

[Warren Stupidity]

122. 2.2%.

[HerbChestnut]

5. This is an excellent plan.

Saves most people *a lot* of money

[thereismore]

7. Sure. Humor me this: What happens to insurance premiums? Deductibles? Hm? nt

[Kentonio]

13. No deductibles. You should read the plan, it's very illuminating.

[thereismore]

17. I know! I was just trying to get the original poster to admit it. nt

[Kentonio]

23. Oops sorry

I'm all giddy and not concentrating enough it seems.

[pangaia]

54. You will not succeed at that.

He/she is not Zatoichi.

[msanthrope]

20. What happens to the payroll tax that the employer gets to pass to the worker? nt

[thereismore]

26. Answering a question with a question. Well, for starters, employers would no longer pay for

insurance. Just taxes.

[DURHAM D]

65. I have not read it.

Does it exempt employers with less than 50 or 25 employees?

Is it still up to the states to fund part of it and administer it like his prior plans?

ETA: Just read everything I could find. That isn't really a plan, it is just some talking points. If I was a small business owner I would be having a cow right now.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

8. Did you think rainbows and unicorns would pay for single payer?

[KittyWampus]

100. You think rainbows and unicorns will convince Republicans to vote for it?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

102. Nope. Why would you make such a ridiculous assumption? Do you know what Republicans are like?

[UglyGreed]

9. Damn that

shoooolshellist!!!!! We need HRC

[grasswire]

10. raise income taxes slightly....

....but cut medical expenses more than that for Americans. Sounds like a very good deal.

[msanthrope]

15. You forgot the additional payroll tax that will be passed along to the worker. nt

[Punkingal]

29. You sound like a broken record. Chill.

[msanthrope]

33. When someone tells me how you sell a significant increase in payroll taxes,

win the presidency and at least one house of Congress preferably the senate I'll stop asking about the payroll tax.

[Joe the Revelator]

68. Right now, for my family, I have a 15k deductible through my employer sponsored healthcare...

If i could pay a little more in taxes, and have that deductible off my back then i am all for it.

Before you ask, I am middle class, I work for a fortune 500, and prior to ACA I had co-pays and no deductible. The ACA is broken in the middle.

[leftofcool]

38. No, quite frankly! The higher taxes and cost of single payer premiums is more than I pay now.

[earthside]

66. Is that you Paul Ryan?

It's like being in some kind of politico-dimensional warp where a few Hillarians are eerily using all the anti-Obamacare themes to trash the dream of FDR and Harry Truman.

[Fawke Em]

79. Frankly, since my company pays our premiums, it's more than I pay, but

I wouldn't have deductibles.

I know for a fact, the payroll tax is less than my companies pays for our healthcare insurance, so they'll be saving money.

My portion would go up slightly, but, I'm fine with it. I realize not everyone has their premiums paid for 100 percent.

[uponit7771]

77. 8.4 increase is not slight, anyone who thinks 99% of the employers wont pass that to the employee

... is delusional seeing they've been doing it over the last 20 years

[Kentonio]

85. If they're doing it already and this costs them less money

Than existing premiums, then why would they pass anything extra on to employees when they are actually saving money?

[uponit7771]

89. It wont cost them that much less, it's 333 a year sans the current premiums of 125 a month which is

... not a premium for a family of 4... I don't know where they pulled that one out of.

2.2% increase for employee
6.2% increase for employee (cause the employer will pass that along)
from a 50000yr salary is 4200 + 466 is 4666 which is ~300 from 5000 mentioned in the example..

It'll cost them that much in paper to do the shift... I'm thinking it'd be less than half... it's not

[Kentonio]

96. You're getting caught up in circles.

The employer will no longer be paying insurance premiums, so the 6.2% they pay under the new system will almost certainly be a reduction in what they pay now. Which if they pass it onto the employee, they would already be doing. They'll save money, so there would be absolutely no need to try and take more money from the employee.

[uponit7771]

101. They employer pays a low premium because they've shifted the cost via the deductible to the employee

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d1b60cf0c7554e0aa7360597c1273275/study-shows-employers-shifting-more-medical-costs-workers

Most companies now offer health coverage that requires employees to pay an annual deductible before insurance kicks in, and the size of that deductible has soared in the past decade, according to a survey released Tuesday by the Kaiser Family Foundation and Health Research & Educational Trust.

This is most employers, to say they're paying premiums now is sophistry seeing they're payments are low because the deductible is high and the emploYER is paying the deductible

[RichVRichV]

131. And what happens once you currently have to use your health insurance?

You get slammed by a large cost until you reach your deductible and still have the co-pays.


Are you calculating that into your cost comparison?

[RiverLover]

11. Love this!!!! And I agree with Robt R~

from the op article~

In a Facebook post earlier Sunday, former U.S. Labor Secretary Robert Reich said that he had gotten an advance look at the plan and said it “isn’t nearly as radical as will be portrayed.”

“It builds on the strengths of Medicare,” Reich wrote. “Like Medicare, it's universal -- separating health insurance from employment, and enabling people to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network: All they’d need do is go to the doctor and show their insurance card. No more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.”

If only conservatives won't blow this up. This could seriously help so very many Americans who need it.

[tk2kewl]

28. And Bernie has the guts to shout this plan load-and-proud

Ram it into the public discussion. Once ordinary people start hearing about it I predict it will catch fire. He's not going to allow it to simply be dismissed as infeasible. If Hillary wants to say it can't be done she going to have to say its because she's unwilling to raise taxes on the rich... the capital gains tax in the proposal is really going to get her pals upset and she is going to have a hell of time explaining why they shouldn't pay more. I'm looking forward to it.

[RiverLover]

39. Good post. I'm looking forward to it as well!~ /nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. HRH conservatives AND GOP conservatives.

I can't WAIT for Bernie to explain this whole plan On NATIONAL TEEVEE to everyone watching the debate tonight so HRH and her DU operatives can't twist it into something it's not!

Good move on his part! Now he can tell the world the TRUTH about it.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[ram2008]

14. Sign me up

"The cost of the new federal health care premium would be more than offset by what such families would save on private premiums and deductibles, according to the analysis by Gerald Friedman, an economist at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst."

It's time for people to stop being afraid of the word tax, and realize that it saves them money in the long run.

[libdem4life]

16. It depends on whose taxes are being raised. And as I look at it, it's mostly the 1%ers.

Let 'em howl and run tell Hillary on him. Some of us are right sick of all the rich welfare that has been going on...that and corporate welfare. So, tell me again why we can't afford decent health care? Get them off the dole...pay their share. Enough is enough.

[msanthrope]

22. Payroll tax affects the workers. nt

[libdem4life]

47. Is this supposed to be a revelation or something? Payroll takes we will always have with us.

At least they won't have gawdawful insurance payments and go bankrupt when something happens.

As for me, I'm glad to see us at least trying to join the civilized world.

Chew on this: but then again, everyone knows it. It just isn't politically Republican/DINO enough.

JUN 16, 2014 @ 10:55 PM 273,422 VIEWS
U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-s-healthcare-ranked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/#2715e4857a0b626c3fb51b96



ETA: So does illness and accidents and such. Let me say it for you this time

But what about payroll taxes?

[mattvermont]

64. in the bernie plan,

the average employer will save 9000 bucks per employee in healthcare premium match. my wife current employer, a public school system pays about 18000/yr for our family plan. we pay an additional 6000 plus all copays and deductibles. it seems there will be plenty of room for employers to not pass on much to the employer.

[libdem4life]

147. No, you're kidding, right? Health insurance premiums affect Everybody. Maybe there might be a

new version to this mantra. Old. Overused. and a Duh.

[snoringvoter]

132. Bernie had it right on tonight's debate. We bailed out Wall Street on our dime.

It's time for Wall Street to take care of the middle class on their dime.

[libdem4life]

148. Put differently, it's time they took responsibility for the nation that made them disgustingly

Wealthy. Pay their fair share would do for me. Keep the money and the jobs here. They need to give back some of what they stole...on the backs of the workers, unions, overseas profits...unemployment and welfare and food stamps that cost the government.

We need Robin Hood. Perhaps, we'll get him...the updated version.

[RandySF]

21. The health premium would cost more than my premium.

Twice as much, actually. Wonderful.

[leftofcool]

27. Mine too! I'm keeping the excellent insurance I have.

[RandySF]

37. I think we'd have to pay the premium, regardless.

[leftofcool]

40. Only if it is mandated. We won't do it even then.

[Kentonio]

59. Hmm, people claiming they won't pay mandated healthcare costs

Where have I heard this exact same claim before...

[Autumn]

114. I remember a couple of posters saying that and they were ripped to shreds.

[snoringvoter]

133. What is your deductible?

Just wondering...

[Autumn]

99. I would love to have an insurance premium cost me twice as much as my co pay

that would be truly wonderful. I could enjoy a payment of 60 dollars a month. Fuck it, I would volunteer to double it and pay for someone else's and still pay less than my fucking premium.

[RandySF]

105. Thanks, you helped me catch my error.

The 2..2% health premium would be double my current premium.

[Autumn]

110. It will help the less unfortunate among us, and as Democrats we should all

want and be willing to help the ones who need the help. We have helped the wealthy and corporation long enough.

[Kentonio]

36. BernieCare is a wonderful thing

[Fawke Em]

41. Lowers premiums by about $3,000 a year for most families

and we ALL get access to healthcare!

[pangaia]

67. But but.. payroll taxes will be higher... or.. something like that..

[Doctor_J]

70. it will lower my costs by $12,000 per year

I'm not surprised freepers and hillarians don't like it

[Fawke Em]

84. Apparently, there are at least two DUers on this thread

who pay next to nothing for their healthcare premiums and have no deductibles.

Either they are on Medicare, they're lying or they can't do math.

The average cost of insurance per employee is nearly $12,000 a year.

[Fawke Em]

87. I stand corrected.

I was using old numbers.

The average cost per employee for a family plan per year is more than $17,000 a year.

http://kff.org/health-costs/report/2015-employer-health-benefits-survey/

And this is from Kaiser, not some right-wing site.

[draa]

46. Judging from some of the comments in this thread

our evolution to the Republican Party is complete.

Today in our party, taxes are bad. Not just any taxes mind you but taxes for social service programs that Democrats have supported for years. It just boggles my mind that you have people attacking something that they would have supported 1 year ago and have for decades.

I honestly hope you enjoy your new party because it, as well as the people who now support "NO NEW TAXES," are in for a rude surprise.

[elleng]

90. Good on you, draa!

[in_cog_ni_to]

50. I really dislike people who blatantly LIE and TWIST FACTS to suit their own

rotten agenda.

A higher tax for Single-Payer MEDICARE FOR ALL, *******INSTEAD OF******** INSANELY HIGH INSURANCE PREMIUMS ****IS NOT*** Raising taxes just to be raising taxes. People can see a doctor when they're sick, go to the hospital when they need to and get medicine they need! Why does that bother you?

A family making $50,000 will save $6000 A YEAR!

You really made a fool out of yourself with this one. HRN would be proud.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[pangaia]

71. WHY do we have to explain such a simple thing?

How fucking hard is it?

Sounds like a bunch of ignorant republicans.

[arcane1]

78. Because they are willing to use dishonesty if it gains a slight advantage.

Medical care is now merely a prop to be used.

[in_cog_ni_to]

107. THAT, my friend,

is EXACTLY what they sound like. I never thought I'd see the day when so-called "Democrats" would fight against Single-Payer Universal Healthcare!

It's so bizarre. They're just pissed off Bernie is doing it and not HRH. That's what it boils down to.

Also, they know damn well the tax is NOT an increase just for the sake if raising taxes, but that it REPLACES Exorbitantly HIGH insurance premiums. The TRUTH just doesn't fit their rotten agenda!

This is an INCREDIBLE PLAN! I know our family will save around $9,000 A YEAR! This will be the best thing to happen to this country since Medicare and Social Security!

Go, Bernie!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[pangaia]

116. It is hard for me to accept/believe it is 'intentional' and not just ignorance.

But I can be pretty naive.

Mind boggling, either way.

[ladyVet]

143. Think what families could do with savings like that! And get good health care. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

144. Talk about boosting the economy! Families would use that money to live. It goes right into the

Economy.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[mattvermont]

81. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[uponit7771]

93. They'll only save that much a year if a person is delusional enough to think the employers wont pass

... their 6.2% increase on to the employee.

They will, like they've been doing for the last 20 years which is part of the reason wages have been stagnant.

I'm thinking we'll be paying less than half... it's only around 5% savings... whatever... this stinks!!

[Warren Stupidity]

138. employers will be paying substantially less.

So what you actually are saying is that they will be passing those savings on to their workers.

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Looks like this'll hit the "middle class" pretty hard. You know, those making $250,000/yr.

Why not post the relevant facts?

$250,000 earners' taxes go up a few points.

Those making over $10 million see their taxes go up almost 13 points.

[hrmjustin]

55. I don't know if the math adds up or not but it will be hard to pass.

I do like the idea of taxing the rich though.

[CharlotteVale]

60. I'm on a fixed income and I'm all for it. Sure seems fairer than

what we have now.

[Doctor_J]

63. just a headline one would expect at freeperville

An actual democrat would be more likely to post

Sanders releases healthcare plan. All Americans covered, no payments to profiteers"

I guess we'll know which way the hillarians will vote if it's Sanders versus a for profit advocate like Bush.

[arcane1]

74. Yep, calling themselves a Democrat is no guarantee they are even remotely progressive.

The policies are irrelevant to these people, they are only tools that can be interchanged as needed. "Whatever It Takes!(tm)"

[morningfog]

91. Peddling right wing framing. For shame.

[riversedge]

145. Are you disputing anything in the OP??

[morningfog]

153. Yes, the right wing framing. I know y'all are embracing that now.

Should be ashamed.

[Kalidurga]

97. Thank you for this great and positive thread about Bernie's tax plan for the wealthy

It would save my youngest daughter about $1,200 a year. It will save my household about double that.

[ismnotwasm]

104. Interesting

My husband has multiple sclerosis and is unable to work. His drugs alone are 2 grand a month (he has a very expensive once a month infusion) With my current health insurance my deductible is high, my premium payment relatively low. My husband has disability for back up. I am the primary. I work as a nurse, and make a decent wage, but we struggle. According to Sanders then, elect him and Tysabri infusions will be free? Including the special monitoring and specially trained healthcare staff? Just like that? How about durable medical equipment? He uses an electric wheelchair from time to time. He needs a new one. Or the very expensive Botox injections he gets in his legs every 4 month to stop excruciating spasms.


The aricle releases nothing I find reassuring, much less anything that will get through congress. While I appreciate the effort from Sanders, I don't see it as a workable plan, unless it is phased in over at least a decade, survives multiple attacks, and gets the math straightened out. It's still fuzzy.

I'll still take Hillary thank you.

[Kentonio]

111. You medical and medical equipment costs

Would cost nothing beyond the payroll tax premium. You don't find that appealing?

[RandySF]

106. That 2.2% costs more per montn than what I already pay before taxes.

[Kentonio]

112. So screw all the tens of million other people it would help?

Also, you don't pay any deductible?

[RandySF]

117. The deductible is minimal.

But better to pay a small deductible when I actually go to the Dr. than getting gouged for the time that I do not.

[Kentonio]

118. Gouged?!?

For Christs sake, you'd be contributing into a system that ensured everyone was covered!

[TexasBushwhacker]

151. If your income is low you will pay nothing

Families making $28600 will pay nothing.

Yes, people with high salaries will pay more. If you are in that group and think we should continue to have millions of people un and underinsured so that you can have lower premiums, well ....

[Squinch]

108. Seems like he timed that so it couldn't be reviewed and analyzed, so it wouldn't be

debated.

Doesn't scream confidence that it will stand up to scrutiny.

[BainsBane]

109. Before he insisted it would save us money

Yet now there is a tax increase. I've like to see a GOP House or Senate that would approve a 52% tax on the wealthy. We do have a constitution that requires congress approve tax and spending.

[Bjorn Against]

119. It would save us money, the tax increase is less than most of us pay in insurance premiums

You can't just focus on the new tax and ignore all the savings, the large majority of people would save thousands per year on this plan.

[99Forever]

124. What is it with Hillarians?

You spout half the story and think you have "proved" something?

It's exactly like giving a "halftime score" of....

San Francisco 14


Pretty fucking lame. Exactly what we've come to expect from you.

[redstateblues]

152. Didn't Mondale run on raising taxes?

Or was it Dukakis?

[99Forever]

120. What's your point?

If I don't get raped by Big Insurance for ridiculous premiums, deductibles, and "co-pays," I can well afford a reasonable increase in my taxes.

So I ask you again:

Just what the fuck is your point?

[Warren Stupidity]

121. Omg raises taxes!

Seriously? Did you think that universal health care was paid for with unicorn farts?

[abelenkpe]

126. Saves the majority lots of money

Raises taxes a tiny bit, mostly on the wealthy. Damn, Republicans are going to lose their mind!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

150. No New Taxes!! Where did we hear that before?