Bernie Sanders Is For Free College Tuition At State Universities For All, Not Just Some

[votesparks]

Not just some is the key. Bernie thinks all students, regardless of income deserve the same chance.

I have no problem with kids from rich families getting a good education tuition free next to kids from poor families getting the same thing.

The time for dividing us all into us vs. them and conquering is over.

It is we the people after all.

[wendylaroux]

1. I agree,

like medicare.Everyone pays taxes.

[think]

2. Nice post. Thank you. /nt

[daleanime]

3. At public colleges.....

if the rich are willing to let their precious offspring compete on the same level as the rest us in order to save, what is to them a insignificant sum of money, that's all to the good.

[lostnfound]

4. I agree. Further, some parents are NOT willing to help with college even though able

What do you do when you have no money and your "ex" does, but is unwilling to help? Financial Aid programs consider income of both parents, but parents generally have no legal obligation to pay for college and some refuse.
Kids whose parents disown them for whatever reason are out of luck.

[Live and Learn]

5. K&R nt

[KittyWampus]

6. Ultimately, there is no way to prevent that money from going to private schools.

Just like we now allow public money to go to private schools.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. False. There is no way of guaranteeing it won't go to privae schools, but it CAN be prevented

It is a political battle like so many others we will always be faced with fighting.

[jeff47]

10. So what?

The money comes from taxing the wealthy. If they send it to private schools, so what? The money you give to the "rich" kids still comes back in the form of those same "rich" paying taxes.

Means testing is the way you kill social programs. You play with the line until you reach a point where most people do not benefit. Then you can kill it, because it's a program for "those people".

But hey, tell me again how putting someone in debt forever means they don't have to worry about debt. That was a great thread.

[demmiblue]

19. Not in Michigan:

Article VIII § 2

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

§ 2 Free public elementary and secondary schools; discrimination.

Sec. 2.

The legislature shall maintain and support a system of free public elementary and secondary schools as defined by law. Every school district shall provide for the education of its pupils without discrimination as to religion, creed, race, color or national origin.

No public monies or property shall be appropriated or paid or any public credit utilized, by the legislature or any other political subdivision or agency of the state directly or indirectly to aid or maintain any private, denominational or other nonpublic, pre-elementary, elementary, or secondary school. No payment, credit, tax benefit, exemption or deductions, tuition voucher, subsidy, grant or loan of public monies or property shall be provided, directly or indirectly, to support the attendance of any student or the employment of any person at any such nonpublic school or at any location or institution where instruction is offered in whole or in part to such nonpublic school students. The legislature may provide for the transportation of students to and from any school.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28rz5pereclqukei55s0xkzhi4%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-Article-VIII-2

The last time the use of vouchers for private schools was voted on, in 2000, it was soundly defeated by an enormous percentage. For transparency, the proposal was also tied to teacher testing.

[dsc]

7. but they don't and that is the problem

College admissions favor white, middle class, and rich kids at every turn at the expense of brown and poor kids. Be it legacy admissions, early admissions, AP classes and the rest. This isn't for all, it is for the white, middle class, and wealthy.

[Armstead]

22. That's the silliest argument I've seen yet

Let me see....It's racist to make it financially possible for all people, including poor minorities, to attend college because the college admission process favors white middle class people.

I suppose it never crossed your mind that it would be possible to simultaneously improve the admission process. And higher education can also mean vocational training that might be preferred by those who want to go into trades.

[dsc]

24. He hasn't said word one about the admission process

nor would he because his white middle class supporters don't want the part of college which favors them changed. The fact is every single European country which pays for college has admission standards that applied in this country would make it much harder for the poor and minorities to get into those colleges. Every single, solitary one. The fact is we won't change the way our high schools are in terms of the fact they are totally unequal and that inequality will be made worse by this policy.

[Armstead]

25. Even sillier

But if you want to try to sell the argument that it is racist to want to make college financially accessible to everyone, be my guest.

[azmom]

29. Many, many POC don't attend

College due to lack of money, not because they fail admission criteria.

I'm Latina and I can tell you that 90% of my relatives did not attend college because they did not have money to do so not because they could not get in to a state school. 90%. Think about that.

[MineralMan]

8. That's fine, but it's not really up to the federal government.

State colleges are run by the individual states, and every state has its own policies on funding and costs. I don't know of a way for the federal government to change that, really. I suppose they could cut off federal funding for states that refused, but such a bill would never pass in Congress, regardless of who was in the majority.

The only actual route the federal government could use would be to subsidize tuition costs at state colleges across the board. That's a great idea, but would require legislation that is unlikely to be passed until we get unbreakable majorities in both houses.

Personally, I believe that state colleges and universities should be subsidized by the individual states, as they once were in many states. I went to college under that system. No tuition. Just room and board and books for costs. That could happen again, if each state wanted it to.

Still, without enabling legislation from Congress, none of this will happen.

[jeff47]

12. Actually, state schools get a vast swath of their funding from the feds.

And this has been the case for quite a while now. Most get their funding from the feds or from their students.

No change required. It's already in place.

Personally, I believe that state colleges and universities should be subsidized by the individual states

Because the people of poor states don't deserve as much education. If they did, they'd have been born in CA or NY where there's a lot more money to fund a lot more schools.

Still, without enabling legislation from Congress, none of this will happen.

The way you get that is by providing a reason for the voters to vote for your party. Say, by announcing plans to fund public university education for everyone.

If we say "we will only do what the Republicans let us do", then why bother with voting for a Democrat? You get Republican policy either way. Truman's quote is as valid today as when he said it.

[MineralMan]

16. We might get a majority in the Senate in 2016.

We won't get one in the House, though. Not this year. That doesn't depend on who is the Democratic nominee, either. That die was case in 2010, when state legislatures in many states became controlled by Republicans and got to change district boundaries after the 2010 census.

We'll have another chance in 2020, which will be a presidential election year, to remake some state legislatures. Until then, the current congressional districts will remain as they are.

We blew it in 2010. Badly. Even Minnesota ended up with Republicans in the majority of both houses of our state legislature. We fixed that in 2012, and recaptured them. Then, in 2014, we lost one house back to the Republicans.

Democrats need to show up in mid-term elections. They do not. It is that simple.

[jeff47]

21. We've been fighting for single-payer for over 80 years.

Yet we're still fighting for it.

What makes you think the only goals that are worthwhile are the ones that can be reached in the next year?

Democrats need to show up in mid-term elections. They do not. It is that simple.

Democrats are 30% of the electorate. We will never win if we pretend it's only Democrats we need.

We need Democratic-leaning independents. They are to the left of the median Democrat. We will not get them to turn out if we abandon anything the Republicans will not pass.

[beaglelover]

11. How does this get paid for? You can't get all this money just from the 'rich'. The medicare for

all is projected to cost almost $2 TRILLION per year and Bernie's proposed taxes increases do not cover the cost. So, is free college and the tax to pay for it on TOP of what we're supposed to fork out for medicare for all? These proposals all sound great until you start to ask the 'how are they paid for' questions.

[jeff47]

13. Already covered in Sanders proposal.

Financial transaction tax and some higher tax brackets.

[beaglelover]

15. Oh, ok, so this isn't fully paid for either, further adding to our deficit.

[jeff47]

18. No, it is. They even use math!!

I realize addition and subtraction can be kinda tricky when the numbers get big.

So how's Clinton's "put students into more debt" plan paid for?

[beaglelover]

20. No, it's not. The CBO has scored Bernie's plans and they are NOT paid for even with all the

tax increases. But if you want to live in a world of unicorns and rainbows, have at it.

[jeff47]

23. So you were lying?

Above, you claimed to not know how the plans were paid for.

Now you claim you not only knew how they were paid for, but you also know about CBO analysis of those plans.

So....you lying about not knowing, or you lying about CBO scoring?

(Considering the CBO has not actually scored this plan, I'm gonna guess you're lying about CBO scoring while also lying about not knowing how the plan is funded)

Oh! You also forgot to mention how Clinton's plan is paid for.

[pinebox]

14. How does it get paid for? What a familiar talking point!

That awkward moment when Truman saw into the future on messaging boards.

[beaglelover]

17. Typical non response from a Bernie supporter. I know these questions are hard to answer but

please give it a try.

[Armstead]

28. ANYTHING can be made to seem impossible

Any program, policy, social goal can be analyzed in ways that make it IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER ACHIEVE.

(I wish the Clintonian bean counters had scrutinized the Iraq War as closely.)

Any candidate's proposals during campaigns are proposed blueprints. It still has to go through haggling and adjustments. If it were determined that the plan as presented truly does not meet financial scrutiny there arec many adjustments that can be made down the line.

Unless one chooses to be a Republican and automatically and immediately jump into a corner and say "No it won't work. Government should never try to do anything."

[libdem4life]

26. I have an idea. Why don't we create a special program for those who CAN afford it

and let them contribute it to a non-profit for the good of all. I'd hate to deprive them of the right to use their money or student loans or whatever else to shore up, say, Single Payer. If they like full price on that, let's see...how about contributions to UNICEF.

Stupid argument.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Rich kids don't go to state universities with the unwashed masses.

Even if they are dumb as stumps with grades and SAT scores to prove it, Daddy gets them into Harvard or Yale or wherever as a "legacy" admittee, and pays the $50K tuition (because of course Chad and Muffy can't go to Podunk State U. with the proles, and with free tuition there would be even more of those people), at least until Chad and Muffy get expelled for dealing meth or pantsing the dean or some such thing.

[Kip Humphrey]

30. just like we won't deny them healthcare - it's a right of all citizens, rich and poor. So too, a

high quality, PUBLIC education at a PUBLIC university or community college is to be a RIGHT of ALL Americans, regardless of stature or station in life.

[votesparks]

31. Just Settle...