There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why...

[Avalux]

... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" - Robert Kennedy

I'm with the candidate who dreams of things that never were and asks why not - the candidate who is inspiring us to ask the same question, and believes that we can do anything we dream is possible.

[valerief]

1. Except what Bernie dreams of EXISTS NOW--in other countries. Time to

upgrade the U.S. to first world status for all its citizens!

[Avalux]

4. Yes! We have to believe it's possible here, and then make it happen, together. n/t

[retrowire]

12. this! nt

[pnwmom]

19. The other countries don't have a U.S. Constitution

and a House and Senate that are built to prevent radical, wholesale change.

[roguevalley]

20. then we vote them out. This isn't a hereditary monarchy though some think so

we vote them out and it will happen. No one is happy with them now and they will feel the wrath. that's why the pug magazine came out swinging. Its too late for them. they have doomed themselves.

[pnwmom]

29. Senators stay in office longer than a President. So far Bernie hasn't been

raising any money to help bring about a Democratic Congress. But even if he helps, only a third of the Senate is up for election every two years.

[pnwmom]

64. And meanwhile, for the first two years, Bernie would accomplish nothing

with the current Congress.

And only 1/3 of the Senate will come up for election 2 years later. The likelihood that they'll have less than 40 votes for filibuster is almost zero.

[roguevalley]

80. read Elizabeth Warren's op ed. she tells how that isn't the problem some want it to be

[pnwmom]

81. I've read her work but never seen that. Do you have a link?

[Ken Burch]

25. Then we do the work to change those things(the Constitution can be amended, after all).

Nobody ever said JUST electing Bernie would solve everything.

[pnwmom]

30. Oh, yes! It's so easy to amend the constitution!

That's why we have an equal rights amendment now, because it's so easy.

Oh wait.

[Ken Burch]

31. I didn't say it was easy.

The point is that only the hard things are really worth doing. Minor changes never matter.

And if HRC gets in facing a GOP congress, nothing she wants, even in half-loaf form, will ever get passed, so any talk of increments is absurd.

[JRLeft]

42. HRC supporters are content with the country, no reason to improve in their eyes.

Last edited Sat Jan 23, 2016, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

[pnwmom]

65. We couldn't even amend the Constitution to put in the Equal Rights Amendment.

We couldn't get 3/4 of the states to agree that women deserved the same rights as men.

[Armstead]

63. Excues, excuses always excuses

Maybe an excess of excuses is exactly the reason the decks are currently rigged against us.

[tazkcmo]

77. Or supporters

of a politician who's motto is No We Can't.

[pnwmom]

79. Obama had a huge mandate at the onset but the Repubs immediately announced

that their only order of business was obstruction.

Bernie will find himself with at best, a Democratic Senate, but not one with enough votes to prevent a filibuster. And he'll have to wait for another election before any more changes can occur.

[murielm99]

2. Bernie is no Robert Kennedy.

He is not even a Democrat.

[Avalux]

3. I didn't compare them lol. But I think they'd probably get along just fine. n/t

[murielm99]

5. You tried to conflate the two of them.

That is just bogus.

[Avalux]

6. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but obviously, I disagree.

[Uncle Joe]

10. The OP wasn't conflating the two of them you were, the message is consistent with both. n/t

[pnwmom]

67. Bernie Sanders said he was nauseated by JFK's speech on Cuba.

They had anything but a consistent message.

Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once said that he was “physically nauseated” by a speech made by President John F. Kennedy when Sanders was a young man, because Kennedy’s “hatred for the Cuban Revolution […] was so strong.”

“Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal,” Sanders reminisced in a 1987 interview with The Gadfly, a student newspaper at the University of Vermont. “But I think at that point, seeing through Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant.”

In the same interview, he also criticized Jesse Jackson’s decision to try and affect change by “working within the Democratic party” and offered some pointed remarks about Walter Mondale.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir/bernie-sanders-despised-democrats-in-1980s-said-a-jfk-speech#.rcB6zQZaaO

[Skwmom]

11. Do your really think Robert Kennedy would consider a lot of Democrats today actual Democrats? nt

[roguevalley]

21. he has more in common with bernie than hillary. I remember them kennedys well and

my uncle knew them personally. This third way bullshit would be anathema to them.

[pnwmom]

68. Bernie said he was physically nauseated by John Kennedy's Cuba speech.

I also remember the Kennedys well. Bernie was no Kennedy -- and he didn't like them.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir/bernie-sanders-despised-democrats-in-1980s-said-a-jfk-speech#.rcB6zQZaaO

Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once said that he was “physically nauseated” by a speech made by President John F. Kennedy when Sanders was a young man, because Kennedy’s “hatred for the Cuban Revolution […] was so strong.”

“Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal,” Sanders reminisced in a 1987 interview with The Gadfly, a student newspaper at the University of Vermont. “But I think at that point, seeing through Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant.”

In the same interview, he also criticized Jesse Jackson’s decision to try and affect change by “working within the Democratic party” and offered some pointed remarks about Walter Mondale.

[cali]

72. Bullshit. The op used a widely known quote.

You are easily confused if you think that's conflating him with RFK.

[murielm99]

82. I am not confused about anything.

The only people who are confused are the ones who think some pie-in-the-sky non Democrat is going to be our nominee.

[pnwmom]

66. Robert Kennedy wouldn't have liked the man found JFK's speech nauseating

and who despised other Dems.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir/bernie-sanders-despised-democrats-in-1980s-said-a-jfk-speech#.xvY08e2jJ

Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once said that he was “physically nauseated” by a speech made by President John F. Kennedy when Sanders was a young man, because Kennedy’s “hatred for the Cuban Revolution […] was so strong.”

“Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal,” Sanders reminisced in a 1987 interview with The Gadfly, a student newspaper at the University of Vermont. “But I think at that point, seeing through Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant.”

In the same interview, he also criticized Jesse Jackson’s decision to try and affect change by “working within the Democratic party” and offered some pointed remarks about Walter Mondale.

[Live and Learn]

7. That is simply not true and you know it. What does that make you? nt

[99th_Monkey]

8. I worked on Bobby's campaign in both OR and CA

And I take great exception to your snarky insinuation that Bernie is "less than"
or somehow "unworthy" of being compared and contrasted with Bobby Kennedy.

I'm not even going to dignify your unseemly remark by 'making a case', except
to say that ever since Bobby was taken so brutally and cruelly from us -- precisely
because he was standing tall for peace, racial justice and income redistribution,
and doing it in a way that was winning the hearts & minds across America -- I
have been waiting for someone who could hold a candle to his generous spirit,
and how he courageously took-on the PTB, and was murdered in cold blood for
his trouble. I'm not waiting anymore, because Bernie touches that same place in
me, that Bobby touched

While your snide comment is technically correct -- of course, Bernie is not Bobby,
duh -- your jaundiced remark is very unseemly and highly offensive to me.

[mimi85]

15. Well put....nt

[Avalux]

37. Thank you for this post.

I wasn't around during Bobby Kennedy's time, so it's great to hear from someone who worked on his campaign, and sees the similarity with what's happening now.

[99th_Monkey]

39. .

Your most welcome. I was in my early 20's then, like so many of Bernie's supporters today, and I'm
so grateful to have lived long enough to see this and be a part of this. Like a full-circle.

Thank you for your post.

[libdem4life]

51. You bet they'd get along. Remember JFK couldn't make it because he was a Catholic.

Well, I'm all in for the Jewish Senator from Vermont. Yes, he can. And yes, I remember that horrible night.

I, too, would like to see a woman for President. But willing to wait for the right one...one who can unite us...bring us together.

[99th_Monkey]

53. Thank you

It's heart-warming to feel the solidarity.

[pnwmom]

69. Bernie said he was physically nauseated by JFK's Cuba speech.

I'm sure none of the Kennedys appreciated that comment or agreed with his point of view.

Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once said that he was “physically nauseated” by a speech made by President John F. Kennedy when Sanders was a young man, because Kennedy’s “hatred for the Cuban Revolution […] was so strong.”

“Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal,” Sanders reminisced in a 1987 interview with The Gadfly, a student newspaper at the University of Vermont. “But I think at that point, seeing through Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant.”

In the same interview, he also criticized Jesse Jackson’s decision to try and affect change by “working within the Democratic party” and offered some pointed remarks about Walter Mondale.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir/bernie-sanders-despised-democrats-in-1980s-said-a-jfk-speech#.xvY08e2jJ

[99th_Monkey]

71. So what? John was not Bobby

and that speech was given many years earlier, when the Cold War was in full swing.

Bobby ran in 1968, after seeing hid brother murdered, after the desegregation struggles in the South
between 1962-68. After him and JFK sending Federal Marshals to University of Alabama in 1963.
And in the intervening years, RFK and MLK Jr. became closer as the years passed, until Martin was
also murdered, when Bobby gave his heart-rending speech that horrid evening in Indianapolis.

So what was your point again? What does what Bernie thinks about ONE JFK speech in 1962 have
to do with the Bobby Kennedy who ran for president in 1968?

[pnwmom]

73. Bobby wouldn't have appreciate Sanders

describing his enlightenment about the failures of liberalism being when he listened to John Kennedy.

[99th_Monkey]

74. Or so you say. With not so much as one link to support it.

and even if Sanders did say that about one speech, I still fail to see the point
of your post, unless it's to sow ill-will, be divisive and disrespectful of Bobby's
legacy.

[pnwmom]

75. I don't need a link to show how close the Kennedy brothers were.

Bobby wouldn't have appreciated Bernie talking about his brother that way.

[99th_Monkey]

76. "Bobby wouldn't have appreciated Bernie talking about his brother that way."

Last edited Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Again, so fucking what? You keep repeating that same mantra over and over
"Bobby wouldn't have appreciated Bernie talking about his brother that way."

I heard you the freaking first time. I'm not overly-impressed.

Can we please move on to something else now?

[highprincipleswork]

16. Please elaborate ways in which Bernie Sanders "is no Robert Kennedy".

I can think of many important ways he is very much like the late great Bobby Kennedy, and someone Bobby Kennedy would probably be proud of right now.

I can also think of some other candidates who probably wouldn't make Bobby Kennedy's list.

[uponit7771]

23. Robert Kennedy had a workable plan and did not have a historically gerrymandered GOP

... congress that he consummately dismissed? tia

[highprincipleswork]

24. I'm sorry, I must respectfully disagree.

Were you really there? I was. And his campaign was highlighted by an extreme form of idealism, much as Bernie's is today. Check out the descriptions of his platform and policies in this article, and I think you will see there is nothing there more detailed or more "workable" than what Bernie is fighting for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_presidential_campaign,_1968

What is eminently true is that he inspired people, and again Bernie is doing that.

As to the gerrymandered Congress? Well, if people like DWS were not in charge and de-motivating people to the point where they do not show up for elections, we wouldn't even have that gerrymandering in place.

Time for enthusiasm. Time to work for every advance we can get, no matter how unlikely it may seem at the time. Time to change people's minds that have been held captive by propaganda for so long.

We will not get there, to these goals, with Hillary.

[uponit7771]

34. No, I wasn't even born yet... There's nothing historically that shows congress was as gerrymandered

... then when RFK was alive and now and RFK had a workable plan that was reasonable not just ideals.

I don't know what's not factual about what I typed.

[highprincipleswork]

35. Tell me his plan then.

[uponit7771]

36. Work with a reasonable congress... that's more plan than what Sanders has now

[highprincipleswork]

40. I give up. Nowhere did Bobby Kennedy have a "plan" to work with a more reasonable Congress.

With the philosophy you espouse, no progress can ever be made.

I suggest you join the forces that are actually trying to change the way things are, not those who are either going backwards or reinforcing the rather oppressive status quo.

That's pretty much what being "Progressive" is all about.

[Empowerer]

46. Except when it comes to reparations . . .

Those are divisive and the chances of getting them passed are nil, so better just leave things the way they are . . .

[highprincipleswork]

60. I see now your point.

Reparations.

Bobby certainly didn't campaign on reparations. to my knowledge. I'm not certain he would now. There are Black leaders as well who don't believe reparations are the way to go.

Bernie is not the only one who isn't calling for reparations. Nobody is.

Have you considered the saying "not to make the perfect the enemy of the good"?

To those of us who support Bernie, and who watch his record over the years, it seems so very clear that he will hold as true or more true to ideals that are in the same ballpark as "reparations" as will anybody else. That is why we work for him and support him.

But it is true, that if that is your main cause, and you think someone has a better chance of getting that done, you should support them, lobby for them, convince us for them. Hopefully that is backed up by what they say and what they do.

Wishing you well in getting what you want and what you need. In the end, that is what we can support other people in - their quest to get that which they want and particularly what they need.

Take good care along the way.

[DaveT]

17. I knew Lloyd Bentsen

He was a friend of mine. DU Poster, you're no Lloyd Bentsen.

[libdem4life]

54. I see what you did there ... LOL. Got to be old to get that one.

[trueblue2007]

18. HE SURE ISN'T !!! Why isn't he a democrat anyway?

[roguevalley]

22. the greatest body of dem supporters are independents. are they assholes too

[Ken Burch]

27. organizing with Dems in the House and Senate is the same thing.

It doesn't matter what label he was first elected under. Only right-wing Dems make an issue out of this non-issue. Progressives know it doesn't matter.

[tazkcmo]

78. Maybe for the same reasons

70% of Americans aren't? Only 30% of Americans are Democratic Party members and after this election that number will drop as many have registered as Democrats just to participate in caucuses and primaries in order to vote for that most famous non-Democrat, Sen. Sanders.

[Ken Burch]

26. He's much closer to Bobby than HRC is.

If you're a centrist and you still defend Bill's welfare bill, you never cared about the poor.

[merrily]

28. I'd love it if you could link me to a post of yours that actually discussed a substantive issue.

[valerief]

33. Yes, Bernie never worked for Joe McCarthy on HUAC.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/06/27/bobby-kennedy-was-no-hero/

[murielm99]

41. Oh, so now we are throwing dead Bobby Kennedy

under the bus, too?

Most people know that about Bobby. They know his daddy got him that job. They know that no one, especially in politics, is pure. Oh, except for Bernie.

You people are beyond ridiculous. Your hero worship of your candidate has gotten dangerously out of hand.

[valerief]

44. You people? Do you call all black people that? nt

[murielm99]

45. What are you talking about?

Are you black? Did I mention race anywhere in my post?

[valerief]

49. Are you saying you didn't call me "you people"?

You people are beyond ridiculous. Your hero worship of your candidate has gotten dangerously out of hand.

[libdem4life]

57. I think she meant us "Bernie people" She thinks supporting someone means idolizing them

or something. There is "worship" and there is "admire", "support", etc. I don't get the danger, however. That's the one that baffles me.

[murielm99]

58. You people:

Bernie supporters. Do you really need it spelled out? I guess that says a lot about bernie supporters.

Again, where did I say anything about race? Are you accusing me of being racist? Do you see how ridiculous all this gets?

And goodbye.

[99Forever]

43. The last candidate I actually worked on a campaign for...

... was Bobby Kennedy. Now I am actively involved in the Bernie Sanders campaign.

The only two in my entire lifetime that actually deserved my time, support, and vote.

Quite frankly, your opinion of Bernie means jack shit to me.

Run along and have another bowl of sour grapes.

[Empowerer]

47. Bernie Sanders is a good and decent man. But he's no Bobby Kennedy.

[99Forever]

50. Well right you are!

Bernie didn't have all of the advantages of being a member of one of the most wealthy and powerful families in the USA like Bobby did, but yet they ended up with very similar views on where this Nation should be headed and how to get there. Too bad most other rich, powerful people in this Nation don't have the goodness and decent character to emulate them.

[libdem4life]

55. So true. Bernie had to do the "bootstrap thing". In fact, he still is. But there are a

lot of us helping pull him up now.

[Uncle Joe]

9. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Avalux.

[Avalux]

38. My pleasure. Feel the Bern!! n/t

[retrowire]

13. awesome quote!

feel the bern!

[highprincipleswork]

14. Loved Bobby to the max. Loving Bernie now, and yes...

Bernie is our best chance for Progressive politics since Bobby Kennedy, in my opinion.

If elected, Bobby Kennedy would have influenced America politics for decades. So will Bernie, if we just stand together and fight for that which we know is right.

[Empowerer]

48. As I said upthread, Bernie Sanders is a very good man. But he's no Bobby Kennedy

Not even close.

[juxtaposed]

52. everyone has heard you.

[ypsfonos]

32. He's our path to a real civilization

long overdue, maybe just in time!

[libdem4life]

59. Welcome! Now is the time...it's all we have.

[Empowerer]

61. "Our path to a real civilization?"

Do you realize that you sound like you're talking about a cult leader?

[WillyT]

56. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[amborin]

62. Bernie is running FOR the American people, everyone else for the billionaires

[kydo]

70. George Bernard Shaw (1856–1950)

The quote is really George Bernard Shaw (1856–1950)

QUOTATION: You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

ATTRIBUTION: GEORGE BERNARD SHAW, Back to Methuselah, act I, Selected Plays with Prefaces, vol. 2, p. 7 (1949). The serpent says these words to Eve.

President John F. Kennedy quoted these words in his address to the Irish Parliament, Dublin, June 28, 1963.—Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: John F. Kennedy, 1963, p. 537.

Senator Robert F. Kennedy used a similar quotation as a theme of his 1968 campaign for the presidential nomination: “Some men see things as they are and say, why; I dream things that never were and say, why not.” Senator Edward M. Kennedy quoted these words of Robert Kennedy’s in his eulogy for his brother in 1968.—The New York Times, June 9, 1968, p. 56.
========

Now there is another quote that both RFK and JFK used and also not theirs ...

Only three things are real: God, human folly, and laughter. The first two are beyond our comprehension so we must do what we can with the third.

Aubrey Menen, Rama Retold (1954), p. 231. This is a modern retelling of part of the Ramayana.