Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 04:42 AM Jan 2016

no, not all non Hillary supporters in the Primary hate her

Now, I am not going to dent that some people have gotten really unhinged, especially those who seem to get all pissed that not every African American Democrats seems to march behind Bernie. However, I need to make clear that there are those whose reasons for making Hillary go through the primary paces have nothing to do with behavior that might very well make Bernie and O Malley gag.

Part of the problem is that a lot of the left were led through the admittedly tough compromise years with the promise that, when things got better, we would go back to work on repairs, pushing forward. I had no illusion that we would summon some storm to wash away 30 years of Ronnie Ray Gun. I knew it would be a trickle. I also knew that FDR had his opponents from the left, the ones that were angry that social security was too small, and a far, far smaller number (a number inflated by Joe Mccarthy) who were genuine radicals who feared that FDR might save capitalism from itself. However, the wheels spun, Social Security grew, and begat the Great Society program, and begun a wheel of progress so strong even a GOP SOB like Dick Nixon had to admit there was a need for an EPA and an OSHA, and that he had to admit "Red" China existed.

However, the 90's, and the ability of the media to lie for money made progress harder to come by. However, it was aided and abetted by folks whose only problem with the GOP were some social issues and the fact they were incompetent. They loved the War Machine, and loved Wall Street financial hucksters who could get caught lying, blow millions and still get good jobs. They also hated stuff like the Fairness doctrine, because they were so confident they could get the job done and not risk their money. Enter Bill, who undid sacred cows of the Democrats, who could bait welfare mothers as demons as much as anyone else. We were told to keep smiling, else the GOP come in. Yes we got some good things, though we paid dearly for them, and the bill came due long after Bill had left office. We had the Third way people tell Gore to take Joe Lieberman. Some people even voted for a glorified clown named Nader, we know what happened next.

Then, we thought Bush could not be a two term er, and then 2008 came. The problem was, as good as Hillary would have made (one that would have gotten my vote if she won the primary) she allowed everyone from Mark Penn to her Husband to Debbie Wasserman Schultz to yank her to the right. It was not that Obama was that different from her, but we saw Hillary make it very clear that the changes she wanted where not the FDR/Truman/Carter changes, but to somehow prove that the only difference between her and the GOP was simple competence. Thankfully, we did not just have to grin and bear it and listen to those that took the ship away form the FDR liberals say "just keep going, I will get you a pony someday, I promise." We did not want ponies, we just wanted a chance to earn our daily bread and get back some of the dignity Ronnie Ray GUn and Idiot Son took from us.

and the Obama, who admittedly faced more opposition than even Bill did. That Democratic Majority turned out to be full of Blue Dogs who seemed to go "oh shiot, we have to fulfill all those promises now." Manchin, Landrieu, Baucus, all of them used something that at the very least is cowardice, and yes, at the worst, is RACIST!!! And I will not exonerate so called liberal leaders like nancy "Impeachment is off the table" Pelosi. And of all of these, the person selected to run the ship, despite the DISASTER that was the 2008 campaign, was none other than an enemy of liberals, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. OH, I have my beef with Obama, as he did back down from fights that needed fighting, but I also think he knew the ground under him was damned slippery. In any case, the Democrats stopped pretending that they needed to try and fight for the left; this relationship went from "I promise I will never hit you again" to "look what you made me do again! (slap)"

and yet we know that at their worst, the Democrats are better than the GOP, and that Hillary, at her worst, is better than any GOP. That is a fact as provable as 2 plus 2. However, whenever we tried to put pressure on her to lean left, since we know damned well there is pressure on her to go full right, we were called traitors, sexist, hippies, ratfuckers, operatives, and a whole list of other names. We did not want to tear down Hillary, we just wanted our voice at the table to be heard. Some of us even think Hillary is being given very bad advice by the same people who should have been fired because they screwed up so badly last time, people like DWS who got promoted, people like Mark "keep down the black vote" Penn, people like Arriana "I will publish conservatives in my liberal paper "Huffington". All people who, BTW, if Hillary did not get hired by Obama, would simply have moved on to the next host.

But alas, we were evil, even though, because we raised issues, Hillary stopped supporting the TPP and the Keystone pipeline. Really, some of her supporters, the ones that defended these policies as if they were life and death, have been tombstone silent. What';s the matter, you realize you are too lazy to somehow express why your icon disagrees with you, that maybe yoiu did not understand her as well as you thought you did? It's not like we were given a chance to apply any pressure within the Hillary establishment, especially as Debbie, sweet INCOMPETENT Debbie, has botched the debate process so bad that people focus on Trump. And please, wen all know even Jeb "my brother will be remembered as the smart one" Bush will march in perfect lockstep goosestep behind Trump if he wins, just as they will behind Ted Cruz, or even Marco Rubio. Say what you will about the GOP, but they know how to keep a base together, where they know they have to pay even the scary people in the corner. We, frankly, you already have people wanting to kick US out of the party, even though we know damned well when it comes to gruntwork and money, they will be knocking on our doors come Fall.

Many of us have no desire to repeat a Nader, we know that half a loaf is better than starving, but when the establishment tried to turn the primary into a coronation, where the right wing had prime seats at the banquet, we had to do something to save this party form itself. Like it or not, if Hillary wins, it will not be because a bunch of celebrities and bankers had caviar dinners where they promised to give the rich what even a crusty old GOP bastard like Nixon would never do.It will be because, we , THE BASE, the ones who were called Pinko liberals before Progressive became cool, hunkered down and hit it. We will beat the GOP despite you, even though we know the Mark Penns and Debbie Wasserman Schultzes plan to spike out victory champagne with cyanide so they can get rid of us, so that they can use Hillary and move on to the next host, fleas spreading plague to what was the Democratic party.

Just do not be surprised if we say "You drink it" after all, you know that Wall Street and the Military industrial Complex have a double strength cocktail ready for you in mid terms. Kind of a "first they came for the (blank) sort of thing. It is not like I cannot read DU and see a lot of former Clinton supporters rage when they got sent to the abandoned pet shelter.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
no, not all non Hillary supporters in the Primary hate her (Original Post) DonCoquixote Jan 2016 OP
K&R nt Live and Learn Jan 2016 #1
We agree, there are 3 or 4 non Hillary supporters that don't hate her the rest ... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #2
There is no hate towards her as a person. Ken Burch Jan 2016 #7
Because DonCoquixote Jan 2016 #8
Truth in every syllable. Thanks for posting this. Betty Karlson Jan 2016 #3
KnR. nt tblue37 Jan 2016 #4
Nor do people who prefer Sanders over Clinton don't support her. joshcryer Jan 2016 #5
Kicked & Recommended! GREAT o.p.! (nt) Not Sure Jan 2016 #6

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
2. We agree, there are 3 or 4 non Hillary supporters that don't hate her the rest ...
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 05:16 AM
Jan 2016

... well... If HRC was on fire

That's how creepy it has gotten, I don't think a lot of the hate is organic though...

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
7. There is no hate towards her as a person.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:32 AM
Jan 2016

The response is entirely about her stands on the issues and the big thread of right-wing ugliness in her record.

None of us would see her record differently if she were a man, and none of us would go any easier on a man running on her program.

Why is that so hard for some to accept?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
8. Because
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 04:21 PM
Jan 2016

It would counter the myth they are trying to establish. There are people who think that the mere fact of (insert group here) getting the White House will somehow change the narrative, i.e. "once one of ours becomes president, White males will have to respect us more because they know we can become president."

They overlook the fact that this political establishment will make damned sure that said candidate has already been set to approve of keeping those rich white males at the head of the table. Just to get close enough to be thought of us a candidate, you have to be used to slicing the rough edges off your face so that your donors will be pleased, like they would of any livestock.

Why not ask Union people how great it was when the first head of a labor union became president, aka Ronny Ray Gun.

For that matter, why is it that despite 8 years of a successful presidency, by a man that killed Ben Ladin and brought healthcare to millions, that everyone from candidates to pundits to cops feels more free than ever to support the killing of young black men and women, even if they are on camera? If the solid year of once per month publicized black killing were back in the 90's, there would have been a call for repentance; now, it is not only routine, but many of the bigots feel free to outright smile for the cameras and post it on Facebook and You Tube Worse, they often get praise and paychecks!

As for women, no, I do not think Hillary would be Maggie Thatcher, with one caveat. If she does get the wars she has been CONSISTENTLY calling for, be it with Iran or Syria, if she wants to declare again that "Assad must go", then all bets are off, because those two wars happen to be the ones where the Russians can get involved. Russia does not want a repeat of Iraq where another ally that gives them port access is attacked, then turned into a hornets nest within as few day's drive to their borders. If that happens, the past ten years of playing at war could make the whole world burn, especially if the Chinese finally decide it is time to cut up the credit cards that the generals and the tycoons have used for so long.

I think that Hillary herself may be far more left than she lets on. It is not her fault that she does not have the "slick Willie" charisma, it is actually OUR fault that we demand a successful candidate to be as much as performance artist as a problem solver. I would rather elect let that lawyer who used to be named Hillary Rodham, who was so competent that her opponents used to call her "The Angel of Death", then some body is who is being told by Willie and Debbie and Mark and a whole nest of parasites who to be. The problem is, if she allows these people to control her during the campaign, what the hell will she let them do once she is in office. I am not just talking about Willie, though I sure as hell will keep one eye on him the whole time. I mean even people who try to sell her an idea like "Gee Hillary, why don't we go ahead an keep your stuff on a private server, it's routine, really."

Yeah I hear people yell "are you saying she is naive?", I am saying that when someone cultivates a reputation for never ever apologizing for anything, it becomes easy for the people behind the throne to make that person start something, and keep charging, even though it is right into the bullfighter's lance! Yes, I realize because she is a woman, that any hint of her backing off as perceived as weakness which the ugly manchildren of the right wing will attack. Of course, wouldn't the ability to step back and not charge like a bull be the rejection of testosterone laced thinking that even many of us men know is what is desperately, desperately needed? The problem is, just as Obama was, Hillary is surrounded by the same nest of parasites who know their job is to keep the rich white guys happy, so all that "hope" of "change" gets melted down to steam.

Again, if she is the nominee, I will be down trying to get her into 1600 pa ave. However, once she getsb elected, I will double down to keep pressure on her, not out of spite, but because I saw what the poltico parasites did to Obama, and I know that for them, Obama was the appetizer, Hillary will be dessert.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
5. Nor do people who prefer Sanders over Clinton don't support her.
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:21 AM
Jan 2016

I support her in any way I support any Democrat. I simply prefer Sanders for reasons I will explain closer to the primary. It has to do simply with the fact that the US is administratively run. Judges and administrative heads do more for the government than legislation (which is increasingly difficult to pass). Clinton's appointments would be mediocre at best. Sanders would shine with his appointments and it would change the Democracy as we know it.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»no, not all non Hillary s...