Hillary will throw unions under the bus so fast your head will spin

[cali]

In short order, she'll seize on a reason to support the TPP, saying it's all fixed and wonderful now. And you know she supports the TTIP and every other corporate trade deal coming down the pike.

How anyone can trust someone as dishonest as Hillary is fucking beyond me. With the exception of Trump, no other candidate has flip flopped on as many issues as Hillary.

[TIME TO PANIC]

1. K & R !

[Snotcicles]

14. That has been the Clinton's track record. eom

[CorporatistNation]

19. Clinton Incorporated Is Not To Be Trusted When It Comes To Working Folks!

!

[Jarqui]

79. I think NAFTA was Bill's biggest mistake but Hillary was all for it

- that's not the only instance, she lobbied for it and spoke well of it years later

That's just on key example.

You cannot trust Hillary on nearly any policy because she's flip-flopped many, many times - usually for political reasons - trying to get votes.

[JonathanRackham]

2. My concerns right along.

[Hoyt]

3. TPP in one's wildest fears won't hurt most unions. The largest, government employees,

Won't be impacted by the irrational threats. Police/fire fighters nope, as well as service, teachers, Healthcare, transportation, skilled trades, etc. Most union leaders have enough sense to know it won't hurt in short run and will likely help long-term.

[daleanime]

11. I always wanted to be sued by multi-national corporations....

over projected profit loss. Now my life will be complete.

[Hoyt]

13. Well, that right has been in almost every trade agreement since 1959.

Plenty of opportunities, which haven't arisen.

[PyaarRevolution]

48. Really?! Then why?

Are we just now hearing TransCanada suing the U.S. Govt. for not approving the KXL? When have we heard of anything like this happening before NAFTA and soon TPP?

[Hoyt]

52. Because it is in NAFTA, agreements with European Union, etc.

Countries sign it because they want foreign investment, tax revenues, jobs, etc.

Experts believe Trans Canada will fail, as has every other similar suit against US.

Reason you are just hearing about it is that Sanders and Warren didn't do their homework before bashing Obama and spreading bull to people to lazy or something to look it up.

[w0nderer]

26. Our records show that you have not

bought the required quota of:
Breakfast cereal (extra sweetened and gene modified)
Diet Drinks (extra unhealthy this year)
and Fast food

also
you are below quota on cheap plastic furniture from china

either shop for $2500 this week (hands over paper with break down) or pay the fine

for next quarter these are the numbers we expect to see met (hands over paper)

thank you citizen!

...so far

[bread_and_roses]

16. CWA - as well as the entire AFL-CIO - says you are 100% wrong

http://www.cwa-union.org/pages/tpp_agreement_lpats

I could quote endlessly but you can read for yourself. These are fact sheets on TPP

Just a few of the fact sheet titles:

"Good for Wall St., Bad for Main Street"

"Lost Jobs, Wages, and Workers Rights"

"Retirees and Seniors Beware"

"People of Color Beware"

"Women Beware"

"Attacking Public Sector Jobs and Services"

CWA has been among the most active in fighting TPP, but the opposition is total - the National AFL-CIO has been urging us and sending out material and educating members and issuing calls for action against it, calls to legislators, national days of action, etc - fighting it from the start.

In fact, it is one of the points on which I am most mystified by the support to HRC from unions.

[Hoyt]

18. Larger unions have endorsed Clinton.

[Ed Suspicious]

29. Larger union leaders.

[Hoyt]

36. And who elects those leaders and for what purpose?

[Ed Suspicious]

45. Right. I never disagree with the representatives I help

to elect.

[Hoyt]

54. Well, if you disagree with them on more than you agree, what does that say about you.

We'll see if they are removed from their position. Heck, if you can find enough support, you can probably call for a special election.

[Uncle Joe]

30. None of the unions or organizations that held votes by their membership have endorsed Hillary.

Every major union or progressive organization that let its members have a vote endorsed Bernie Sanders.

Meanwhile, all of Hillary Clinton’s major group endorsements come from organizations where the leaders decide. And several of those endorsements were accompanied by criticisms from members about the lack of a democratic process.

(snip)

The one major labor union that did allow for a vote was the Communications Workers of America. CWA followed a three-month process that included meetings with members, telephone town halls, and an online polling voting process.

“We conducted an online membership poll from mid-September to early December,” said CWA spokesperson Candice Johnson in a statement to The Intercept. “Tens of thousands of members voted in the poll, with Sanders getting a decisive majority.” Johnson noted that CWA did not endorse in 2008 because they followed the same process and the three leading Democratic candidates all received around the same proportion of votes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511048050

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/22/bernie-sanders-gets-group-endorsements-when-members-decide-hillary-clinton-when-leaders-decide/

[tazkcmo]

77. But not the TPP

Or is this an admission that she will support the TPP despite her stated opposition?

[mike dub]

31. fantastic, info-packed link

thanks bread_and_roses!

[truedelphi]

34. Well, the heads of Unions have a good deal of influence.

And they know that Hillary is not all that honest.

Hence they can collect dues from their members, offer up financial support from Hillary, and then get one of two "favors" in return:

One) When the individual who made the decision to finance Hillary wants to continue to be in their top spot at the Union, Hillary Inc will support them

Two) The possibility of "kickbacks." Some of these might not be actual cash "giftings." But if a kid or cousin or mother-in-law needs a job somewhere and that job needs to be "soft and juicy" the Clintons will come through.

Such "niceties" would not come their way through support of Bernie.

[shadowmayor]

21. Light Manufacturing

Heard much the same about NAFTA and watched manufacturing jobs walk across the border to the maquiladoras. While the initial score card was mixed, most agreed that all the new jobs added to the light manufacturing world were south of the border. Hope you are correct, but I have my doubts.

[TIME TO PANIC]

22. The TPP will cause us to lose our sovereignty to multi-national corporations.

It gives a corporation the right to sue any government that gets in the way of that corporations profits.

[Hoyt]

35. Nope, hasn't happened in hundreds of similar agreements since 1959.

You guys just look for things to fear.

[TIME TO PANIC]

39. By you guys, you mean progressives. n/t

[Hoyt]

41. People with irrational fears. Heck, there are people here who think more gunz in more

places is "progressive." I believe in rational progressive candidates who can get something done.

[rhett o rick]

63. It's not irrational fears if it's based on 30 years of behavior. Your Wealthy 1% has

been screwing the lower classes for decades and you call it irrational fear. I fear another banking crash (read wealth transfer), do you think that's irrational? H. Clinton is very wealthy and has very wealthy friends. She has a lot of wealth backing her and that transforms into influence. Lot's of people can be influenced by money including union leaders, congress-critters, and heads of unions. We are fitting the corruption of our government by Big Money and you guys pretend everything is hunky dory.

Democrats choose to side with the lower classes and not the Wealthy 1%.

[Hoyt]

65. FDR (SS) and Lyndon Johnson (Medicare) had lots of wealthy people behind them.

[rhett o rick]

70. So let's guess your point. We should trust Goldman-Sachs to help solve poverty?

Bullcrap. They want more profits and have been stripping the lower 99% of resources for decades. I guess that's ok with you.

[Stryder]

44. Huh?

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2016/01/transcanadas-15-billion-nafta-suit-probably-doesnt-stand-chance

[Hoyt]

82. They won't get it AND it is not compromising our "sovereignty." That sovereignty BS is a

favorite of right wing racist militias.

[Dretownblues]

51. You mean this didn't happen?

International trade deals like the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) need to be carefully examined piece by piece because they can take precedence over a country’s own laws.

Case in point: the World Trade Organization (WTO) on Friday ruled that dolphin-safe tuna labeling rules — required by U.S. law, in an effort to protect intelligent mammals from slaughter — violate the rights of Mexican fishers.

[link:https://theintercept.com/2015/11/24/wto-ruling-on-dolphin-safe-tuna-labeling-illustrates-supremacy-of-trade-agreements/|

[Hoyt]

53. That says America applies different standards to Mexicans than their own fishers.

Truthfully, Mexicans are now more dolphin friendly than American. And, it didn't change any law.

[Dretownblues]

69. Did you read the article

Because it says right in it that Mexico has less regulation. The different regulations you talk of is the netting that is used being dangerous to dolphins and is illigeal to use in the US and perfectly legal in Mexico

[Hoyt]

72. No, I read the actual WTO proceedings, not the Intercept BS.

[cascadiance]

81. The dolphins not being protected by OVERTURNED labeling laws probably hate comments like this...

... if they were human!

ISDS courts will amp up what the WTO already abused earlier in terms of global corporate fascist rule overturning our elected government's laws.

There's a reason this was negotiated in secret primarily between UNELECTED U.S. Trade representatives with UNELECTED corporate heads and most others were left out. And if you think that was to serve the interests of the people at large, I have bridges to sell you all over the country!!!

[Hoyt]

83. Ask the folks who get good jobs when a foreign country invests here, in Mexico, in Vietnam, etc.

[cascadiance]

85. Whether or not this is true, IRRELEVANT to that the WTO unconstitutionally overturns our laws...

And what myth is that that perhaps you might want to provide a link to, when the facts show that we've had so many factory closures and lost jobs since NAFTA was put in place.

[Hoyt]

88. As Krugman says, people blame NAFTA for things caused by other factors. Oh, I forgot, Sanders'

supporters threw Krugman, Klien, etc., under bus a few weeks ago. Factories closed because they didn't adapt, just like the buggy whip manufacturers. Those that did adapt are still going.

[Hoyt]

84. Actually, Mexico goes further than the USA in protecting dolphins nowadays. Wasn't always true, but

but it is now.

Mexican boats have observers on board to certify dolphin safe fishing. The US boats are allowed to have Captain certify tuna is "dolphin safe."

Thus, Mexico's position in the WTO action was that in recent years their fishing methods had cut dolphin deaths to minimal levels - below the thresholds allowed in U.S. fisheries - and that tuna from other regions did not face the same stringent tests, with ship captains allowed to self-certify that no dolphins were harmed. The WTO ruling does not mean the United States has to reduce the protection of dolphins or lower its labeling requirements.

And, for those who rail against the TPP -- but have not actually read it -- the Trans-Pacific Partnership promotes marine mammal conservation among all 12 members.

Fact is, we have been discriminating against Mexico to protect our own fishing fleets. I'm sure that is fine with some people, but not others.

[cascadiance]

86. Again you don't deal with the ISDS and WTO "courts" which are like corporate arbitration "courts"...

... that corporate bribes have helped put in place to do things like disallow class action law suits with corporate owned judges on SCOTUS, and basically lead to a RIGGED system against American consumers. ISDS and WTO "courts" are the international rigged versions of arbitration panels that plague our judicial system now.

Whether or not Mexico does a better job itself in regulating nets, it doesn't take away from the fact that an international body that isn't a court put together by elected representatives can overturn our own legislation when PERCEIVED corporate "profits" are affected.

If Transcanada is allowed to either overturn our shutting down of Keystone pipeline or in effect STEAL American taxpayer money in its lawsuit to WTO (and likely to ISDS courts later), that is on Clinton and Obama for not stopping NAFTA and TPP, that is pushing this BULLSHIT sort of action that basically puts in place fascist systems of government over us.

[Hoyt]

87. You obviously don't know how an ISDS arbitration works (not a court). Country appoints one arbiter;

company appoints one arbiter; two parties choose one. It's done under United Nations rules. Aribters can be professors, judges, attorneys, etc., knowledgeable in field. The can only rule against us (or we might be the plaintiff against Japan), if we are unfairly discriminating against the company, compared to our own companies.

But when all is said and done, every country in the world agrees to these ISDS agreements because they want foreign investment in their country -- even Sanders' favorite, Denmark, signs on. I guess all these countries are just corrupt, owned by the oligarchs.

ISDS goes back long before NAFTA -- like 1959.

[A Simple Game]

43. I don't think you have given sufficient thought to outsourcing.

Yes police/fire fighters will probably be safe, but not their supply manufacturers.

Teachers? Really? You never heard of online courses? I took several when I was in college a few years ago. Was helping my grandson who is in 6th grade with homework two days ago... yup, logged on to do his homework online. Now I know all of my teachers were local except for one course where the teacher was local but the online material could have been from anywhere in the world and probably was. I am also sure my grandson's homework was monitored by his local teacher. All local for now, could and likely to change in my opinion because of the proliferation of large online teaching corporations. Think of the Bush families fingers in education here.

Health care, who knows where their supplies are manufactured even now? As for services? There are already thousands of people flying to India for surgeries and to Mexico for dental work. Also people flocking to Canada and Mexico for prescriptions. What's to stop an insurance company from sending you to a foreign country for your gall bladder surgery?

Transportation? Lots of foreign made trucks on the roads, as for drivers? I'm not sure, are the Mexican drivers coming into the States now? Most ships now travel under foreign flags for monetary and regulatory reasons and have for years.

Skilled trades are probably safe depending upon the skill set and the size and location of the object needing repair, if a job can be shipped out repaired and returned cheaper it will be. Car parts are a good example which is why core charges are so high on many parts. I'm sure there are other examples of parts that can easily be swapped out and the old part repaired and stocked. Many repairmen are now not much more than parts changers and the parts are not made nor repaired in the US.

Union leaders? I think many may have illusions of being appointed Labor Secretary... dreamers, it will never happen under a Hillary Presidency.

[Hoyt]

59. Truck drivers stay here, on-line teachers here, even many foreign branded trucks

are assembled here, etc. If an insurance company tried to send you overseas, I would hope you drop them. If someone is flying to India, it is not because of trade agreements.

I agree repair people just swap parts, but they've been doing that for decades.

[Joe Turner]

58. Just like NAFTA didn't hurt unions

Supporters of TPP have zero credibility by virtue of the long track record of trade deals like this decimating jobs and unions for decades. TPP would take the American middle class down yet several more notches while corporations world wide loot nations at will.

You sir are the irrational one. Irrational for supporting trade policies that have proven to be largely responsible for this country's economic decline.

[JRLeft]

4. You would think unions would be tired of lip service from deomcrats

instead of action, right?

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. Plenty of room under Hillary's bus.

A person could build bleachers under that thing.

[riversedge]

40. It is Sanders fans who keep throw good Democrats under the bus. Today it was Julian Castro

[NCTraveler]

6. That's funny.

Most of them are hanging out next to me under the bus.

[Odin2005]

7. Union leadership does NOT represent workers.

The mainstream unions were completely purged of genuine Leftists during McCarthyism, unions now serve the Democratic Party Establishment, not their workers.

[cali]

8. Agreed. All too frequently, it does not

[daleanime]

12. +1

[Hoyt]

17. Who elects leadership?

[LettuceSea]

9. Oh, they know...

When it comes to voting: "They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work."

[restorefreedom]

10. i need to point out that the r frontrunner

is against the tpp

if we run hillary against trump, thats gonna be a big hurt

[Kentonio]

15. Insane, isn't it.

[restorefreedom]

28. weird wild stuff. nt

[KittyWampus]

20. How anyone can trust someone who talks out of both sides of his mouth is beyond me.

How anyone can support someone who promises rainbow crapping unicorns is beyond me.

[bvar22]

23. I didn't know that, and I keep close tabs on Hillary and Bernie.

Please post a link to where Bernie promised "rainbow crapping unicorns ",
or did you just make that up?

[hobbit709]

24. You should know considering who you're supporting.

[KittyWampus]

60. I'm an O'Malley supporter. So apparently you're another Sanders supporter who can only see

black/white. You either support my HERO or the evil-one.

Sad so many of your fellow Sanders supporters resort to such binary, reptilian thinking.

[hobbit709]

64. Well, you always seem to jump in on the Clinton side.

And repeat their talking points.

[Odin2005]

56. The pot calling the kettle black?

No Hillary supporter has any right to accuse BERNIE of "talking out of both side of his mouth".

[Ferd Berfel]

25. I also do not trust her to keep Social Security and Medicare intact

An once a Democrat does THAT The Party is fucked. Like it is now because Barry put it on the fucking table. And the only reason we still have it (intact) is because Obama derangement syndrome had the fascists calcified at the time.

FUCK THE DNC, DLC THIRD WAY Elitists.

[CharlotteVale]

46. Yes, she's already said if she could find a way to raise

the retirement age without hurting certain types of workers she'd consider it.

And I bet that wouldn't stop her either.

[Ferd Berfel]

61. No it wouldn't stop there

I cannot support her

[elmac]

27. Like Obama?

Just askin

[SoapBox]

32. I absolutely agree.

She will allow and continue the assault on American workers.

It's one thing I trust her to do.

[redstateblues]

33. Lifelong union member, Democrat here-

Bernie's proposals are not grounded in reality. I think he's selling something he knows he can't deliver. I'm convinced Bernie's would be a one term failed Presidency. I liked him at first- the more I hear from him the less I like him.

[riversedge]

49. I like most of his proposals also but they are so unrealistic given the state of our

radically divided Congress. I truly think that as SOS,, Hillary gained so much experience in negotiating with leaders of different countries that she is the only one who can bring that knowledge to work with Congress.

[Jim Lane]

74. This thread is about trade deals. A President can refuse to sign them, end of story.

Of course, this whole line of argument about "it's unrealistic to expect anything good to happen" is defeatist and wrongheaded for several reasons, but it's particularly wrong with regard to trade deals. We have two candidates who have consistently denounced TPP and who urged Congress not to approve fast track. Then we have a third candidate who repeatedly supported it and came out with a tepid sort-of opposition when she was running for office and she saw which way the political wind was blowing.

It's realistic to extrapolate from those facts to make a projection about how each would act as President.

[Segami]

37. Kick!

[riversedge]

38. I think you just came out of head spin and your dizzyness caused you to post a foolish post.

[cali]

47. I think I'm right. Past is prologue.

[riversedge]

50. No, I think you are wrong. Like so many of us, she has learned

from earlier years--good and bad decisions--and has grown.

[cali]

55. Sure doesn't look that way. On issue after issue, she only gets on

board once the majority does. She us no leader. At all.

[riversedge]

73. Her blooming took different times

Last edited Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:13 AM - Edit history (1)

on different issues as they do for many people--including Sanders on the gun issue.

His health care 'plan' is taking time to mature and we are waiting for it to bloom.

[cprise]

42. K&R

[Paka]

57. History repeats itself.

Simply "par for the course."

[book_worm]

62. Then why are so many unions supporting her?

obviously they should also understand this?

[cali]

75. Union bigwigs made those decisions, not rank and file

[Fuddnik]

78. Yeah, my union slashed our company pensions by 50% in a side deal with the company.

The International VP did it behind our local officers back. Then the PBGC slashed it another 60% a few years later.

[glinda]

66. So will Bloomburg.

[mythology]

67. And it will still be slower than it took for

some Sanders supporters to turn on unions or other groups who endorsed Clinton.

[TheFarseer]

68. Yes, could not agree more.

[B Calm]

71. What would make you think an ex Walmart Corporate lawyer would do that?

[merrily]

76. It can't possibly take much to fix "the Gold Standard," can it?

[cascadiance]

80. U.S.'s ambassador to India worked on Hillary Clinton's presidential team made comments this week...

... on things like trade issues with India, H-1B Visas, etc. that should be worth looking at. Hints at what the OP is stating here...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/india-to-remain-priority-for-us-no-matter-who-rules-us-ambassador/articleshow/50688302.cms