Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:10 PM Jan 2016

Here’s a Big Problem With Sanders' Health care plan: It sounds great, there's no way he can deliver

Here’s One Big Problem With The Bernie Sanders Plan For Health Care Utopia
It sounds great, but there's no way he can deliver.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-health-plan_us_569ff110e4b076aadcc50807



~~

To help pay for his plan’s unprecedented benefits, Sanders proposes to extract unprecedented savings from the health care system. Here is where the details get fuzzy and hard to accept at face value, even beyond the usual optimistic assumptions that figure into campaign proposals. Sanders expects a large portion of the savings to come from reductions in administrative waste, because insurance billing would basically end. Another big chunk would come from squeezing the industries that produce health care services and supplies -- and squeezing those industries hard.

That last part should set off alarm bells for anybody who remembers the fight to pass the Affordable Care Act. Two particular episodes from 2009 -- one widely publicized, one barely noticed -- are a reminder of how much power those groups wield in Washington. For Sanders to realize his vision for single-payer health care, he’d have to overcome even greater resistance than Obamacare’s architects faced. And Sanders has offered no reason to think he could do that, which is something Democratic voters might want to keep in mind.

Two Lessons from Obamacare

The first and better-known episode from 2009 was the battle over the “public option” -- a proposal, crafted by Yale political scientist Jacob Hacker, to create a government-run insurance plan that would compete with private insurers for customers. Hacker and others figured the public option could dictate lower payment rates to suppliers and providers of medical care, just like Medicare does, thereby keeping premiums low and forcing private insurers to match them.

Voters liked the idea, according to polls, and experts had certified that it would save the government money. But it ran into huge opposition -- not just from insurers, who didn’t want the competition, but from doctors, makers of drugs and medical devices, and hospitals, all of whom understood the proposal would cut into their revenue.

House Democratic leaders had to weaken the proposal significantly, reducing the public option’s ability to force down health care prices, in order to pass it. Even that compromise couldn’t get it through the Senate, where Joe Lieberman, then an independent senator from Connecticut, spoke out against the public option and many Democrats, including a few liberals, quietly cheered him on.

(more)



... the only way we could get single payer passed is if we had control of BOTH the House and the SEnate. That would be quite a feat to pull-off.

73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Here’s a Big Problem With Sanders' Health care plan: It sounds great, there's no way he can deliver (Original Post) Bill USA Jan 2016 OP
Let's all just give up and stay home in November beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #1
That's the ticket! Human101948 Jan 2016 #3
You mispelled "sarcasm" Kelvin Mace Jan 2016 #14
Results of STUPIDEST jury service EVER --> 7-0 LEAVE IT nashville_brook Jan 2016 #12
LMAO! beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #16
Don't let anyone shut you up. draa Jan 2016 #32
Nice. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #35
This was their attempt to silence me. draa Jan 2016 #38
Bullies. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #39
It seems to me, in your cmt 1, that you have no answer to the point raised by Cohn. IF you want to Bill USA Jan 2016 #73
Yeah, it looked more like a personal grudge vs post substance. Glad it went 0-7 Leave. MerryBlooms Jan 2016 #17
Chickenshit and hyper-sensitive. Lots of these alerts lately. n/t arcane1 Jan 2016 #30
I did not alert on it, but comnt is off topic, not addressing the OP - that's a valid reason Bill USA Jan 2016 #72
Hillary's slogan really is "No we can't." reformist2 Jan 2016 #27
I love the right wing talking point they keep using: utopia beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #33
yeah, the election is over. HRC should quit, because the polls show a tie! LOL! Think chanting it Bill USA Jan 2016 #37
Exactly what will happen if for some unfortuate reason Sanders riversedge Jan 2016 #41
Hillary supporters are going to stay home and not vote in the general? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #42
The only reason you can't fly is that you don't want to badly enough. anigbrowl Jan 2016 #43
Hillary2016: NO WE CAN'T! beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #44
yep Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #51
Perfect. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #52
+1 uponit7771 Jan 2016 #68
Umpteenth verse same as the first Fumesucker Jan 2016 #2
Get down sweet Virgina... Human101948 Jan 2016 #5
Funny, that's how I feel about Sanders' stump speech anigbrowl Jan 2016 #45
I seriously don't care if his plan in this form makes it. What I care about is having the leader of Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #4
Tell me, why the fuck to people scoff at the idea of utopia? I seriously do not understand the mind Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #6
Reality-based critiques don't go over very well with the Bernie crowd. DanTex Jan 2016 #7
Fuck it Old Codger Jan 2016 #8
Bernie and Elizabeth will be working hard to win both houses of Congress. They make Cal33 Jan 2016 #9
LOL I am sure the country will patiently for years until results begin to appear anigbrowl Jan 2016 #47
Some might if each time the Repub. senators filibuster some bill that the Cal33 Jan 2016 #54
To think there will be a blessing for Sanders plan at this time Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #10
Silly metaphor about the long car trip with 10 gallons of gas. aidbo Jan 2016 #18
Lots of suggesting the ACA should be repealed, votes to repeal about Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #23
You're talking about republicans. WTF? Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #25
Who controls congress? Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #28
And a President Sanders would veto that. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #40
" It would be silly to repeal ACA"... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #57
Don't attack me, you can respond without the personal attacks. Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #58
Lies are lies... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #61
See post #59 for the real explanation... MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #60
A nasty comment with the "But, you won't" Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #63
You haven't before when I tried to explain this to you... MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #64
And I have explained why this will not happen at this time, Thinkingabout Jan 2016 #66
"providing a pathway has not happened..." MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #67
Well, to heck with it then. We shouldn't even try. Vinca Jan 2016 #11
I see it's the same old head in sand response here... MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #65
That would be quite a feat to pull-off. Yes, won't it be great! ypsfonos Jan 2016 #13
oh really Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #15
Here's the problem with Hillary's Healthcare plan Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #19
tl;dr or Where there's a will, there's a way. Gregorian Jan 2016 #20
You're not thinking strategically, and we Bernie supporters most certainly are doing so. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #21
And here is a big problem with Clinton's plan Doctor_J Jan 2016 #22
We've been fighting for single-payer for 80 years. jeff47 Jan 2016 #24
The only reason Hillary's plans would be passed DJ13 Jan 2016 #26
I betcha, if we had the deal that anyone who didn't believe it could be done Proserpina Jan 2016 #29
So you advocate throwing the baby out with the bath water? Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #31
That goes over many people's heads. draa Jan 2016 #34
Yadda, yadda, yadda....No solution, no hope, no alternatives to fix things Armstead Jan 2016 #36
Great read. Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #46
Healthcare reform isn't a cornerstone of the Sanders campaign... TCJ70 Jan 2016 #48
Bill USA - THIS ! Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #49
+1000. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #62
No We Can't Iggy Knorr Jan 2016 #50
it's too hard.... mike_c Jan 2016 #53
NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T! Odin2005 Jan 2016 #55
Because Yeah, no President ever in the history of forever has had both houses ... Myrina Jan 2016 #56
Jonathan Cohn worked previously at the New Republic and American Prospect... MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #59
Great JFK quote. EndElectoral Jan 2016 #69
Yes, yes. Think small. moondust Jan 2016 #70
But, the revolution is coming. Beacool Jan 2016 #71

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
1. Let's all just give up and stay home in November
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:12 PM
Jan 2016

Let the Republicans have the country, no reason to fight for anything anymore.

Woe is us.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
12. Results of STUPIDEST jury service EVER --> 7-0 LEAVE IT
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:27 PM
Jan 2016

(may the alerter enjoy their alerting vacay)


Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Mon Jan 25, 2016, 05:21 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Let's all just give up and stay home in November
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1064715

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Stay at home so the Republicans can win the White House? This is a trollish post that a Republican would post and it doesn't belong on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jan 25, 2016, 05:26 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: omg. sarcasm. heard of it? let me help you..."Sarcasm is the use of irony to mock or convey contempt." <--straight from the dictionary.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It seems that he forgot the sarcasm tag.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am hoping the poster is just engaging in hyperbole
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Beam Me Up adds nothing to the discussion as usual....but this isn't a serious post. Just a pat response from the Bernie Bots.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alert stalking. Pathetic.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's called sarcasm...

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
16. LMAO!
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:32 PM
Jan 2016

It's actually pretty smart if you're an alert stalker, alert on enough posts and eventually you get lucky.

Unfortunately that one didn't choose wisely.

Second 7-0 result on one of my posts today.

Thanks jury!


beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
39. Bullies.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:02 PM
Jan 2016

It's being coordinated offsite, we've seen the evidence, I've had up to 5 alerts on my posts in one night.

At least the jurors got it right on your op.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
73. It seems to me, in your cmt 1, that you have no answer to the point raised by Cohn. IF you want to
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 05:58 PM
Jan 2016

win an election or primary it seems you should be able to defend your candidates positions. You seem to be conceding Cohn's point that Bernie is promising something he knows he can't deliver.


BTW, I did not alert on your cmnt 1.


Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
72. I did not alert on it, but comnt is off topic, not addressing the OP - that's a valid reason
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 05:50 PM
Jan 2016

in general, I prefer to ridicule those who post 'twit' comments and let the comment stay there to expose the quality of the thought process of the commenter - rather than alert. - unless they are really stupid and offensive.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
33. I love the right wing talking point they keep using: utopia
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:44 PM
Jan 2016

I wonder if they realize that's how Republicans have been referring to liberal ideas for decades?

That's who they sound like when they oppose the left.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
37. yeah, the election is over. HRC should quit, because the polls show a tie! LOL! Think chanting it
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:53 PM
Jan 2016


will work?

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
43. The only reason you can't fly is that you don't want to badly enough.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:06 PM
Jan 2016

Other people say it's because you don't have wings or jets or any other way to generate lift, but it's really just a motivation problem. Send $5 and recieve POWERFUL lesson.

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
45. Funny, that's how I feel about Sanders' stump speech
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:09 PM
Jan 2016

He's so predictable that I have a game where I finish his sentences in the debates.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
4. I seriously don't care if his plan in this form makes it. What I care about is having the leader of
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:13 PM
Jan 2016

our country making single payer, universal healthcare an issue for our consideration.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
6. Tell me, why the fuck to people scoff at the idea of utopia? I seriously do not understand the mind
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:16 PM
Jan 2016

that would rather not have everything just right. Isn't utopia our goal? Isn't utopia the end game of all who practice Christianity? I thought utopia was to be strived for. What am I missing here?

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
7. Reality-based critiques don't go over very well with the Bernie crowd.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:18 PM
Jan 2016

Who cares if a plan will actually work? The unicorns will take care of it. (except when it comes to reparations -- unicorns have their limits).

 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
8. Fuck it
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:20 PM
Jan 2016

Gotta start somewhere..... Quitting sure as hell won't get it done, so you go ahead, I am going with Bernie and at least go down trying

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
9. Bernie and Elizabeth will be working hard to win both houses of Congress. They make
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jan 2016

a fine team. They could pull it off in two or four years. Then things will really
start popping.

Edit: Don't forget, not only Democrats, but many Republicans are totally fed-up
with the status quo. Too many of us want change, and we intend to get it.
Bernie and Liz will press this home - loud, clear and often!!

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
47. LOL I am sure the country will patiently for years until results begin to appear
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:20 PM
Jan 2016

That's how elections usually go in the US, right? People turn out at mid-terms to support the incumbent president in inverse proportion to the amount of stuff s/he gets done. True fact.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
54. Some might if each time the Repub. senators filibuster some bill that the
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:39 AM
Jan 2016

Dems. are trying to enact into law for the benefit of the American people.
Both Bernie and Liz will explain what the people will be losing if the bill
did not get through - and the Repubs. are doing it to them. Just make
sure that these people will not be elected the next time. Name names.
and explain exactly what they are doing, and why.

Do the same thing in the House of Representatives. One of Obama's
habits is to say little or nothing. The Main Stream Media, being 90%
Republican owned, certainly says nothing. Well, Bernie and Liz will
be different. They will make it known - loud and clear - who is robbing
the people of their rights and helping the corporate power people to
get richer and have more power -- and it's at the expense of the
American people. The Repubs. are doing this to them.

When repeated often enough, you can be sure that even the dumbest
people will sooner or later catch on. I'd say there is a good chance
that the Repubs. will lose many of their members in Congress.


Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
10. To think there will be a blessing for Sanders plan at this time
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jan 2016

Is not realistic. We watched and wrote our congressional members but the single payer would not pass. It may surprise some to know Medicare has had several improvements over the yeas as SS has had also. It would be silly to repeal ACA and hope then to pass some other plan. Improve ACA, enhance it as much as possible, elect more Democrats and then go for single payer. It would be like planning a very long car trip with ten gallons of gas.

 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
18. Silly metaphor about the long car trip with 10 gallons of gas.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:48 PM
Jan 2016

If the first step of this long car trip is to go to the gas station to pick up more gas, there's no problem.

Also planning for most very long car trips would presumably include stops for gas.

It should go without saying that the existing system would not be "dismantled" (-Chelsea Clinton) before having the replacement system in place.

It would be silly to repeal ACA and hope then to pass some other plan.


Yes, it would be silly. That's why no one is suggesting we should do that.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
23. Lots of suggesting the ACA should be repealed, votes to repeal about
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jan 2016

60 times but they forget to add replace.

Yes on a car trip there would be expected to have gas stops but I am still waiting to see where his gas stops are planned.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
40. And a President Sanders would veto that.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jan 2016

He's not ever suggested that we repeal the ACA FIRST. It stays as we move toward a more inclusive and less expensive single-payer plan.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
57. " It would be silly to repeal ACA"...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jan 2016

..."and hope then to pass some other plan".

Please link to any reputable source claiming that would be the sequence of events in a Sanders presidency.

Do you really think that Sanders would repeal the ACA first, then try and pass something more comprehensive?

You do realize he has been in Congress, first as a Representative and then as a Senator, for over 25 years, right? You do realize that he knows how things work in those organizations, right? You do realize that he has been a proponent of universal health care since he began his political career, right? You do realize that he served on the committee that drafted the ACA, right? and that he added the provision for community health clinics, right? and that he voted for it, right?

In other words your dishonest framing DOES NOT represent reality in any way, shape or form. It is EXACTLY the sort of framing tactics that the right wing uses. You think that by slipping in that sort of language you can convince readers that Sanders will stupidly repeal the ACA before having something else in place, thus relieving millions of people of their health insurance. Which is, of course, COMPLETE AND UTTER HORSE SHIT. And it is exactly the sort of dishonest discussion that Chelsea Clinton got reamed for.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
61. Lies are lies...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 12:00 PM
Jan 2016

...and truth is truth.

If you will be so kind as to change your DISHONEST remarks, I will edit my response.

Until then...

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
63. A nasty comment with the "But, you won't"
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 12:05 PM
Jan 2016

I understand all the whatevers about healthcare, I have great doubts the Medicare for all will happen until after we can stack Congress with Democrats, this is the part many do not understand. I am on Medicare, it is not free, there is a premium, I also purchase a Medigap policy because of the high co-pays, Medicare pays 80%, one hospital stay is more than the Medigap policy for a year. Sanders is not on Medicare, he probably does not understand in pushing for Medicare for all. No, ACA is not perfect, neither is Medicare, lots of improvements have happened in Medicare. Reality is the present make up of Congress is not going to allow for Medicare for all, I don't doubt it will take longer than Sanders and I are alive to get the single payer system working, there is not a present path for Medicare for all now and until we can stack the Congress.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
64. You haven't before when I tried to explain this to you...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 12:36 PM
Jan 2016

I'm curious as to the "whatevers" that you know about Medicare. It's obvious that it has administrative costs, and when compared to private insurance? You purchase Medigap INSURANCE with high co-pays, so you are still using the insurance model of what will be covered. Have you really looked into this?

Sanders, who helped congressionally with the ACA, when it was obvious that the Democrats did not WANT to entertain the public option knows about Medicare. Yet, you're willing to say he "probably does not understand". You're perfectly fine with those blinders. So, since you're going with that wrongful assumption because you want to, tell me... Why, when we stacked Congress with Democrats before didn't this happen?

Nothing is free. So, who's being disingenuous here? Medicare is not perfect, and the changes as outlined in Medicare for All is the best way to address those loop holes. Sanders came out with it, Hillary Clinton or MOM have not shared similar, but YOU are willing to dismiss it.

Who's being disingenuous and nasty here?

Head in sand feel good?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
66. And I have explained why this will not happen at this time,
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:42 PM
Jan 2016

Providing a pathway has not happened. Don't continue your sharks, it does not explain a pathway.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
67. "providing a pathway has not happened..."
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:27 PM
Jan 2016

... Excuse me, but are you attempting to explain something again about how close Congress has come to providing a public option? You DO remember that the majority of Americans supported it, don't you?

"Don't continue your sharks"... Sorry, but I'm going to take a guess that this is your perception of being given what-for. You'll forgive me, I'm sure for not understanding what that means.

On edit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1071488

Just in case you feel like your don't want to look at the numbers all totaled up for you. If that hurts to look at, rest a while and try it again.

Vinca

(50,276 posts)
11. Well, to heck with it then. We shouldn't even try.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:26 PM
Jan 2016

How many years will it take for big insurance to get rates back up to what they were prior to the ACA? I say 5 years and that's optimistic.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
65. I see it's the same old head in sand response here...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 12:39 PM
Jan 2016

Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.... They don't wish to hear it.

This won't help, either....

Or, this....

So, I'm done with the willful ignorance and nasty responses. They should just admit they DON'T WISH TO KNOW.



Until they need to know, that is.

 

ypsfonos

(144 posts)
13. That would be quite a feat to pull-off. Yes, won't it be great!
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 06:27 PM
Jan 2016

I'll bet your jaw will be on the floor too!

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
21. You're not thinking strategically, and we Bernie supporters most certainly are doing so.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:03 PM
Jan 2016

We're thinking long term.

AT THE END of a Bernie Sanders Presidency we expect to be MUCH closer to being able to enact single payer in this country. Bernie will get to appoint a DNC Party Chairperson. We expect THAT Chairperson to recruit and fund progressive Democrats and not "pro-business"/3rd Way approved Democrats. We believe they CAN win as evidenced by how strong Bernie is polling in Iowa and New Hampshire. Those are not super liberal states generally. They are regarded as Battleground states.

Bernie's success with his campaign has EXPLODED the lie that the Establishment continues to shovel down our throats. That is what is so brilliant about this campaign. The people LIKE his policies.

A Hillary Presidency will get us NOWHERE closer to single payer than we are today. DWS, or someone like her, would be Party Chair and they would continue to recruit Banker approved Democrats for office. After a Hillary Presidency we will be right where we are now, and many of the same people will be saying "No We Can't" because we hadn't even begun to shift the Congress to be more favorable to the policies that we want enacted.

We HAVE to start building a better Congress one day. A Bernie Presidency would be a huge step in the right direction.

You are doing the insurance companies work for them. Keeping those expectations WAY down and not doing anything to begin to correct the situation we are in. We would go nowhere fast your way. Just as the insurance companies want.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
24. We've been fighting for single-payer for 80 years.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:38 PM
Jan 2016

We are not going to give up just because we can't get it in the next two.

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
26. The only reason Hillary's plans would be passed
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:39 PM
Jan 2016

.... is because they are so conservative the current GOP cant say no to them.

Is that what we really want from a Democrat in the WH?


 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
29. I betcha, if we had the deal that anyone who didn't believe it could be done
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jan 2016

would be automatically rejected from single payer Medicare for All,

there suddenly would be a tsunami of believers! And it would get done.

It will get done, regardless of people's religious beliefs.

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
31. So you advocate throwing the baby out with the bath water?
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:43 PM
Jan 2016

Even if Bernie could accomplish little, he will appoint great judges that work for the people, and he will veto the corporatist crap.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
36. Yadda, yadda, yadda....No solution, no hope, no alternatives to fix things
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 07:50 PM
Jan 2016

It is getting soooooooooooo predictable.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
48. Healthcare reform isn't a cornerstone of the Sanders campaign...
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:26 PM
Jan 2016

...it's part of his ideas, but not the center by a long shot. The center is removing the barrier of money and greed in politics to open the path for progress. Right now we have so many bought and paid for politicians that nothing can happen. So, you're right, this probably wouldn't pass under the way things are currently...but I trust Senator Sanders to call out the BS and deal with the rampant corruption in our political system, because he isn't part of it.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
49. Bill USA - THIS !
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:32 PM
Jan 2016

'Single-payer is the only health reform that pays for itself'


non-partisan Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP
) http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511052189

and THIS

Elizabeth Warren: Anyone Who Says ‘Change Is Just Too Hard’ Is in ‘Bed With the Billionaires’

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1064813

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
53. it's too hard....
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 09:51 PM
Jan 2016

So let's just not try. Gee, I wonder who benefits from the current rigged health care system in this country?

on edit: I'll vote for the candidate who wants to at least try to end for-profit health care. The one who gives up and says it's too hard because they're in the back pockets of the private insurance industry won't get my vote.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
59. Jonathan Cohn worked previously at the New Republic and American Prospect...
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 11:56 AM
Jan 2016

... If facts didn't get in the way then, why should they now with this hit piece?

It's poorly referenced. If you're going to write about the healthcare delivery system, then you should understand how it has performed from the inception of fee-for-service models of the 1960's, prospective payment system of the 1980's and capitative per-member managed care "evolution" that led us to non-negotiated insurance and pharmaceutical coverage as outlined in their presently fucked-up tier system, especially after Medicare's Part D that left so many people in the donut hole.

The cost of this "evolved" system will increase another 6 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. I don't think the job market and bad health outcomes that prevail in our working population can sustain that, nor the 29 million people who still have NO health care insurance. We need a system that covers everybody.

The numbers outlined in Sander's Medicare for All SAVE lives and improve outcomes. The working class is not able to save a dime under this current "evolution", even after ACA, which is better for some people, but still give you the scenario above.

So, who the hell is this shill kidding?

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
69. Great JFK quote.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:22 PM
Jan 2016

"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. " - President Kennedy, May 25, 1961

Fast forward to HRC campaign 01/26/16...."No, we can't."

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
71. But, the revolution is coming.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 10:31 PM
Jan 2016

Whereby very liberal Democrats are going to become the majority in Congress and pass Sanders' agenda.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Here’s a Big Problem With...