Bernie Sanders’s supporters ignore what we learned from Obama

[kennetha]

Poor Bernie and his gang. The Media is onto him and his supporters. Can hardly find anybody to say anything nice about him anymore.

...

Bernie Sanders’s supporters remind me of women who, once the baby is delivered, instantly forget the pain of childbirth and are prepared to do it all over again. Except that this analogy fails when it comes to the question of ultimate payoff. Why would voters, after watching Obama’s excruciating experience with congressional Republicans, believe that Sanders could deliver his promised “political revolution”?

...

Read more at

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanderss-supporters-ignore-what-we-learned-from-obama/2016/01/29/51a9edb2-c6c5-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

[valerief]

1. Before I put you on Forever Ignored, I'll say this. We don't believe. We're just not not trying.

Like someone else we know.

[JimDandy]

19. Let me help you with that...

{flush}

Your welcome...

[Agnosticsherbet]

2. Obama's greatest mistake as President was thinking he would be treated as other Presidents were by

Republicans. It took him years to realize that Republicans would not pass things they wanted if his name was on it.

Sanders and Clinton will be treated the same way because Republicans have no desire to govern.

[uponit7771]

17. This is true, there have never ever been this many filibusters in the Senate. GOP changed senate

... rules to a standing filibuster against Obama.

My issue with Sanders is he leaves this out of his narrative about Obama and at on time proffered he be primaried because he went "rightward" and this happened more than once.

Sanders doesn't have a track record of mobilizing people to influence congress when things were easier, I don't see him doing such now things are 10 times as hard

[daleanime]

32. And Hillary doesn't leave it out?

Bernie acknowledges the fight ahead, Hillary just cites her 'experience'. As if that will part the republican waters. The only things she will be able to get though congress are the things we don't support.

[uponit7771]

33. No she doesn't, she's being straight up with what her agenda is up against (link inside)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-vows-to-battle-corporate-inversions-1449683153

[daleanime]

58. What she says is her agenda is not what we're talking about here....

it's getting that agenda though the deeper red congress that she'll have that's the question.

[Agnosticsherbet]

49. Clinton, acknowledged that Republicans were her enemies.

She has absolutely no illusions about what it would be like to work with a Republican Congress.

[daleanime]

59. So where the difference between....

Hillary and Bernie? It looks like it's simply that Bernie is willing to work on our agenda, while Hillary is working on a corporate agenda. And of course the things that we want are just not worth the effort to her.

[Agnosticsherbet]

62. Clinton will work to improve Health Care, the Safety Net,

to bring real equality to Minorities and women.
She will appoint justices like Ginsburg
She will stand up to the Republican majority in congress.

The things Americans want is what she will work for.

Saying she will work "on a corporate agenda" is false meme.

[daleanime]

64. You think she will, I think that would go on the back burner....

after the election. That still leaves you with question of what the difference between how Bernie or Hillary would deal with a red congress?

Bernie wants to involve voters to both change the make-up of congress and to put pressure on it's members to be more responsive to the people. Hillary wants to.............?

(Sorry, posted wrong spot first time. )

[Agnosticsherbet]

66. Clinton wants to improve what we have created

She knows the Congress and has a much better relationship with Democrats than Sanders.

I think the rights of Women and minorities will be where she will prioritize, not that she will get much done.

She will work with Democrats to reduce the trash Republicans pass, and reduce the impact of must pass bills. (Some bills will always have to be passed to keep a functioning government.)

[daleanime]

67. Democrats which will be in the minority.....

still does not address how she'll deal with republican congress that hates her every bit as much as Obama, and has done so for over twenty-five years?

[Kip Humphrey]

54. maybe this will help you...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Conscience-Liberal-Reclaiming-Compassionate/dp/081664179X

[AgingAmerican]

35. His biggest mistake was naively believing they would deal with him in good faith

And compromising for nothing in return. His deals drove the country hard right.

[SMC22307]

74. THAT'S what was "excrutiating." Not what Ruth Marcus is suggesting. (n/t)

[pandr32]

53. Republicans have changed

...and are willing to blow-up the point of the two-party model our "Founding Fathers" thought would direct progress incrementally and with reason and compromise.

[99th_Monkey]

3. Duh! Because --as Hillarians love saying-- Bernie is NOT Obama

Bernie has nearly three decades of experience in Congress, knows where the bodies are
buried, how to get shit done, put together bipartisan coalitions, it's not totally NEW to him
like it was Obama.

It's pretty simple really. Bernie is no Obama.

[uponit7771]

18. Sanders has no recent track record of mobilizing the left to get things through a congress that

... was titled towards Dems at one time, there's no reason to believe he can mobilize people to get passed the congress that is dead set against progress

[99th_Monkey]

24. That's precisely because VOTERS (remember them?) had not yet elected Bernie to be POTUS.

Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:39 AM - Edit history (1)

In case you haven't noticed, there really IS a political revolution afoot, with determination, numbers, a means to fund-raise from We the People, the 99%, and not the Billionaire Class.

You've heard of "mandates" right? THIS ^ would be a historic mandate, and Bernie's colleagues in Congress will be facing a whole new set of choices, not the choices not dictated by Wall St., but choices Bernie organized his whole campaign around, to openly and unabashedly re-redistribute the nation's wealth to working people, the middle & lower income, and the poor.

That's what this is about and why once Bernie is elected, his colleagues will follow him in order to keep their jobs come next election. The Apple Cart will get turned over .. Bernie's election will be a game changer.

[uponit7771]

26. Why should we with no record of even mobilizing revolution to get SP passed in his own state?!!!?...

The discussions tonight have been good, Sanders recent track record of local and national "revolution" or mobilization has been non existent or bad at best.

His agenda is built on this revolution which in part plays on people being ill informed of the effects of a gerrymandered congress.

This GOP congress is digitally and historically gerrymandered.

They can TECHNICALLY burn down a pediatric oncology ward in joker face during prime time TV and blow the joint up afterwards and STILL be elected back into their gerrymandered seats.

Congress does NOT care, and they don't have to either

[99th_Monkey]

36. Glad you noticed we're already screwed 6 ways to Sunday. That's a great start

but there's something much bigger going on now, bigger than just tinkering around the edges, because "it's too hard" to actually recover our democracy because the "big bad" Tea Party just won't let us, a minority of half-wits from the minority party.

Yah, I guess you're right. We can't do any better than that. Never mind.

[uponit7771]

48. Yes... we can :-)... Vote for Hillary who's proposting unilateral measures to get passed the gop...

... congress

[Xipe Totec]

4. I can't believe you've made it this far, or this long. nt

[BainsBane]

5. I'm guessing it's not the same

I myself was an Obama supporter in 2008. I recall unrealistic expectations based entirely on voters' desires rather than what Obama said, but I didn't see the extreme, uncritical defensiveness we are seeing in this current campaign.

My theory is that many Bernie supporters see him as a perfect political reflection of themselves. Therefore they see any attack or criticism of him as an attack on themselves and vice versa. I really don't think the same people had that same sort of association with Obama.

[MrMickeysMom]

10. I don't think your guess skills are very good...

But guess away, anyway. It beats doing your homework on what has not worked for this country and what it will take to stop the insanity of endless wars, corporate control of elections, starvation wages and an unsustainable planet under presently controlled oil and gas.

If that is a not a reflection of us, then both your and my children should not be blamed for hating us.

[AtomicKitten]

13. +1

[BainsBane]

14. So you did treat Obama the same?

Okay. I certainly can't claim to know you better than you know yourself.

If that is a not a reflection of us, then both your and my children should not be blamed for hating us.

I think you just confirmed my theory didn't you? Only you assumed you were entitled to define this election for me, and to think for me, and presumed you knew about my life. You are not, and you do not.


FYI: In your issue is really war, Bernie's not your guy. He has been very clear he supports war against ISIS, only he thinks the US should be able to compel countries that are long term enemies (Iran and Saudi Arabia) to fight on our behalf. Neither Clinton nor Sanders support ground troops in Syria, but both support aiding coalitions in fighting those conflicts. The chief difference is that Clinton knows the difference between Sunni and Shia and Jordan and Turkey.

[MrMickeysMom]

44. Did you REALLY just say that?

In your issue is really war, Bernie's not your guy. He has been very clear he supports war against ISIS, only he thinks the US should be able to compel countries that are long term enemies (Iran and Saudi Arabia) to fight on our behalf.

A) To fight on OUR behalf? What have you been listening to all these years?

B) To stay out of civil wars that are fought for the soul of Islam is somehow OUR behalf?

C) Have you even LISTENED to what/how Clinton's said/done/acted on behalf of hegemony in the middle East?

D) Have you even seen who she's courted in Pennsylvania on behalf of the same oil and gas industry?

Just admit it... You don't want to even listen to YOURSELF!

[Empowerer]

41. Dead on the money

[NurseJackie]

61. Very insightful.

[SMC22307]

73. DU's BOG is one big "same sort of association with Obama."

Surely you haven't missed that group. Same with a never-ending supply of idiotic blogs trotted out at DU.

[jillan]

6. The real question is why did Obama dismantle OFA after he was elected?

If he would have kept his grass roots organization in tact he would have had a unified voice fighting the teabaggers.

[uponit7771]

20. He didn't, I still got emails from them and the other organization groups. Sanders keeps pushing thi

... this meme that Obama abanded his supporters and that's false on its face.

[jillan]

25. ....

Except for some work on health care reform, the Obama administration has not made extensive use of OFA. This choice has been criticized by some veterans of the 2008 campaign, who believe that Obama has erred by being too ready to compromise with conservatives instead of mobilizing the OFA volunteer base.[8][11

]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizing_for_America

[uponit7771]

27. Mobilizing them to do what?!!?!? Punch conservatives in the face!?!? tia

[beltanefauve]

78. Still on their mailing list

They mostly ask for money and ask us to sign birthday cards. And they're dead silent on the TPP.

[ancianita]

7. Because most voters know politics is a long game. Long. Incremental wins. Like child rearing.

Thus the pain of childbirth is a positive one in service of a long game. Not a discouraging one.

[SunSeeker]

8. K & R

[white_wolf]

9. Sanders has REPEATEDLY told his supporters that this doesn't end with his election.

He's said several times that no president can change things on their own and has asked his supporters to continue to work for change after he is elected. Furthermore, this piece assumes that we'll have the same Congress after November as we do now. If we elect Sanders, he'll likely bring it democratic majorities in one of the houses of Congress.

[uponit7771]

21. So did Obama and OFA stayed around for a while. Also, Sanders is not explaining the digitally

... historically gerrymandered congress that we have now.

They can literally burn down a pediatric oncology ward in joker face on prime time TV and still be voted back into office because of the way the districts were drawn.

That was not the case in 08....

Sanders doesn't have a track record recently of leading and mobilizing people when things were easier, ... I don't see him doing such when things are harder

[Empowerer]

42. But they can only start working for change AFTER he is elected?

Where has this people's movement been before now?

And, given 1/3 of the Senate up for election this year and the gerrymandering of the House districts (thanks largely to the "people's movement" refusal to support President Obama in the 2010 mid-terms), a Sanders election will not result in a Democratic majority in either house. That's just a fact.

[Zorra]

11. Because Bernie won't even think of trying to appease republicans.

His ideas are so good, and so popular, that the republicans will want to work with him.

In addition, we'll quickly primary the corporate Dems out of office and replace them with democrat Democrats.

[uponit7771]

22. Well, except on reparations ... so, yes... some VERY IMPORTANT tenants of the left he has already...

...said he'd be appeasing.

[aikoaiko]

45. Yes, reparations, the question that can't be asked of HRC because she is so far to the right.

As TNC said.

[uponit7771]

47. False, she's the political revolution candidate Sanders is.. that's HIS title not Clintons so she..

... is not holding herself to that standard, she's saying we can get things done other ways.

[Ed Suspicious]

55. Clinton doesn't set our agenda. And you misstate the nature of the revolution. His revolution is

one of participatory government. Not of unicorns and rainbows. It is of people coming together to drive a people focused agenda. But I suspect you really know this, it is simply in your personal best interest to deny this reality.

[aikoaiko]

68. Exactly, HRC is the status quo and can't be expected to make any big changes.

Not economic, not for racial justice, and not for health care.

But maybe if we're attacked by terrorists she'll support a new war. .

[uponit7771]

75. ... and that's ok with most dems, we like the direction the country is going... Sanders camp

... can't stick the revolution title on her... That's Sanders thAng

[Empowerer]

43. I actually thought you were being sarcastic, until I saw your graphics . . .

[NurseJackie]

52. Good one! :-D

[treestar]

57. OMG

The Republicans will want to work with him? SMH.

[Broward]

12. I learned a lot from Obama.

For starters, I need to be much more discerning. I aim never again to mistakenly back a corporatist.

[uponit7771]

23. Yeap, anyone who votes for corporations to have immunity for making a dangerous device more ...

... dangerous shouldn't be running as a leftist... oh wait

[aikoaiko]

46. That is not what PLCAA does. You should read about it to understand it better.

[MrWendel]

15. Sounds like...

people want their country back.

[NurseJackie]

38. Oopf! Good one!

A direct hit. Cleanly and solidly delivered.

[MrWendel]

69. It seems that...

the extremes of both parties want that.

[Doctor_J]

16. republicans won't work with Sanders, so we should vote for someone who AGREES WITH THEM

on most issues?

[uponit7771]

28. Or someone who's outlined plan to work past them

[jeff47]

29. This plan you keep referencing but then can't quite show?

I really liked your examples of how she expands the ACA without Congress. Since all of them required Congress.

[uponit7771]

30. Link inside

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-vows-to-battle-corporate-inversions-1449683153

[jeff47]

31. Poor Clinton. Can't afford to put her hands in front of a paywall. (nt)

[Motown_Johnny]

34. .

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/event/detail/july29organizingmeeting/wrqj

^snip^

"Let me tell you right now what no other candidate will tell you. And that is, no one who is elected President of the United States can do it alone. No one in the White House will have the power to take on Wall Street alone, Corporate America alone, the billionaire class alone. The only way that change takes place, is when we develope that strong grass roots movement. Make that political revolution, stand together, and then we bring about change."

- Bernie Sanders / Portland, Maine / July 6th, 2015

[mhatrw]

37. still Bern > stillborn

[99Forever]

39. Save your faux pity for Camp Weathervane when Hillary loses.

I have forgotten nothing from Obama. He taught me to listen carefully to the things candidate say while campaigning that sound like promises, but are really just pandering horseshit to get my support and vote, quickly forgotten once in office. (See what I did there?)

I haven't forgotten the REAL importance of KNOWING a candidates proven history is much more informative of how they will govern than the bullshit they fling on the campaign trail.

So pal, perhaps it isn't people like me that have "ignore(d) what we learned from Obama."


Oh yeah.

FUCK THE MEDIA. Bought and paid for corporate swine.

[Vinca]

40. I'm stunned at the defeatist attitude some on this site have.

They've gone from "Yes We Can" to "No We Can't." And they're actually voting for that.

[AgingAmerican]

50. Clinton supporters going off the deep end last few days

Smear machine going full bore. It might give them the warm fuzzies, but it won't help.

[saltpoint]

51. Much horseshit is this.

You don't read very well, as evidenced by your source material.

[earthside]

56. More "We can't ..."

Hillary and the Hillarians (including Marcus, Chait, Krugman, et al.) ought to heed the sentiment expressed here:



It is so sad to see so many in the Democratic Party becoming so conservative, so risk averse, so pedestrian, and so lacking in vision and hope.

[Scootaloo]

60. Wow, you joined in 2001, and only have 1,680 posts?

I was curious, so I looked... and the bulk of your posts are ranting about Obama in 2008. You vanish from DU shortly after the Nomination, your final post being a hat-tip to the appeal of Sarah Palin and the 'energy" of the Republican ticket that year, and the one before that giving credence to McCain's sneering about Obama's exit strategy from Iraq.

You'll forgive this Obama-supporting Sanders voter for not giving a damn about your finger-wagging lectures, yes?

[retrowire]

65. The media has always ridiculed and tone policed revolutions.

This is no different.

[Odin2005]

70. Obama BETRAYED us progressives that elected him.

He was never planning on being the progressive he ran as in the first place!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

71. Are we at the pre-game taunting stage now?

Bernie could kick Clinton AND O'Malley's asses in a 3-way cribbage game, and that's all I have to say about that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. Yawn. Try harder. It ain't workin'.

[R B Garr]

76. Kick for truth and reality.

[Autumn]

77. What I learned form Obama is why I support Bernie. nt