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Zynx

(21,328 posts)
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:29 AM Jan 2016

Is it so hard to believe that decent people can support a different candidate than you?

I'm sick of the attacks on the character of supporters of the candidates, assuming that they must support the candidate that they do because of some deep personal, even moral, failings. This is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING and anyone who engages in this sort of immature nonsense should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Decent people can look at the same facts and the same context and come to different conclusions. Deal with it. Be adults.

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Is it so hard to believe that decent people can support a different candidate than you? (Original Post) Zynx Jan 2016 OP
You're going to have to find adults somewhere else. We're not adults here. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #1
Apparently not. Zynx Jan 2016 #5
Indeed, I can't find an adult anywhere in politics right now, except Barack Obama and Joe Biden. And ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2016 #9
Find me a decent Trump supporter I dare you. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #2
That was a string of incoherent nonsense. Zynx Jan 2016 #3
Oh I know decent Conservatives. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #7
I know decent Republicans who just ideologically don't believe that government should do that. Zynx Jan 2016 #10
It boils down to who do you think deserves to be without basic needs. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #12
Not all, but many who say "the government should not be in the business of ..." never say that GoneFishin Jan 2016 #52
there are a number of decent people in my life restorefreedom Jan 2016 #21
Lets stop with the false equivalencies also, HRC supporters get called everything in the book... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #4
I didn't want to use the post to make accusations about the relative balance of attacks. Zynx Jan 2016 #6
Its few to none reciprocating these kinds of attacks on Sanders supporters Kalidurga Jan 2016 #8
"Its few to none reciprocating these kinds of attacks on Sanders supporters" Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #13
Wells said passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #14
That's for the jury. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #15
Mmm. Where can I get me some o that? Bernin4U Jan 2016 #16
I buy mine at the Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #17
Wow...I am in awe of your verbal skills! Punkingal Jan 2016 #24
Warren, my man! in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #26
Thank you. potone Jan 2016 #27
Love me some brofurkey rolled in granola, but if I don't wear socks with my sandals it gets stuck GoneFishin Jan 2016 #53
BEST POST EVAH!!! *Warren drops mic, walks offstage* beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #54
I know you got a lot of cheers for this mythology Jan 2016 #61
Anybody who has been in GDP for the past 6 months knows exactly what the fuck I'm talking about. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #66
Um, Hillary is NOT progressive. She is a neoliberal. w4rma Jan 2016 #20
see uponit7771 Jan 2016 #34
Her neoliberalism is a fact. It's not a smear, unless you don't like neoliberalism. w4rma Jan 2016 #35
Sanders can't throw stones, no matter how many of them his camp thinks he can hold in his hands uponit7771 Jan 2016 #36
What does that even mean? You're not making any sense, uponit7771. (nt) w4rma Jan 2016 #38
That Sanders can throw no stones?!!? Seriouslly, you need that explained to you?!! REALLY?! ... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #39
Really. You're "starting to see a pattern" because I'm not picking up on your vague insults? (nt) w4rma Jan 2016 #40
Sanders can throw no stones is not vague and not an insult, you most likely need to start paying... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #41
You are apparently impervious to facts, friend. Why don't you spell out these vague w4rma Jan 2016 #42
1. Giving a corporations undue immunity 2. Brady Bill votes 3. pragmatic on reparations .... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #45
Reparations? Who are you voting for that supports reparations? I am unaware of Clinton's reparations w4rma Jan 2016 #46
I would love to vote for Sanders on reparations but he's too pragmatic on the issue cause... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #47
Don't lie. You aren't going to vote for any candidate based on reparations. w4rma Jan 2016 #48
I sure the fuck would, in a heart beat ... Sanders would never support reparations though uponit7771 Jan 2016 #49
So you could care less about criminal justice reform, but reparations is *your* issue. w4rma Jan 2016 #50
Why do you pose it as an either/or? Empowerer Jan 2016 #59
As I've already mentioned in another thread passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #23
That is so so so true. Vattel Jan 2016 #43
Progressives don't support regressive policy. frylock Jan 2016 #28
Regressive policies like giving a whole industry undue immunity?! Sanders can't be a stone thrower uponit7771 Jan 2016 #37
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #32
Yeah it kind of is actually Iggy Knorr Jan 2016 #11
There are no facts, only interpretations. Friedrich Nietzsche Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #18
This is exactly why religion demonizes those who don't believe. SheilaT Jan 2016 #19
if someone says that they'll support a candidate no matter what policies they have because MisterP Jan 2016 #22
Yes, it is very hard to believe. Group identity dictates group behavior HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #25
The only 'secondary website' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2016 #57
It seems you are arguing that you and those like you don't want to be mistreated by 'them' HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #58
Only if by 'those' you mean Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2016 #63
It's also about the networks that dialectically approve or disapprove of such actions HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #65
I thought you were talking about Bernie vs Hillary renate Jan 2016 #29
THANK you!!! Empowerer Jan 2016 #30
It was very immature SheenaR Jan 2016 #31
Ahhh cripes another one.... 99Forever Jan 2016 #33
Hell is empty! And all the devils are here! aidbo Jan 2016 #44
Thank you for the post! eom BlueMTexpat Jan 2016 #51
It's hard for me to accept that people support someone as corrupt as Clinton cali Jan 2016 #55
Interesting. Look through this thread, note the posters who essentially Squinch Jan 2016 #56
You said this so well. Empowerer Jan 2016 #60
. Squinch Jan 2016 #64
if the contest was between sanders and omalley i might agree with you elana i am Jan 2016 #62
 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
9. Indeed, I can't find an adult anywhere in politics right now, except Barack Obama and Joe Biden. And
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:49 AM
Jan 2016

I'm just as guilty. I allow myself to get worked up and lose my mind on here on a regular basis. I'm not proud. And neither should be nearly every breathing soul on this website.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
2. Find me a decent Trump supporter I dare you.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:36 AM
Jan 2016

Find me a decent person who was for single payer and/or universal health care a year ago, but is against it now.

Find me a decent person who is now complaining about having to pay a small tax for maternity leave. I just dare you to do that.

RW talking points and goals are not decent. I don't care what party the person spewing them says they are in.

Zynx

(21,328 posts)
3. That was a string of incoherent nonsense.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:40 AM
Jan 2016

These things aren't particularly related and you more or less proved my point. I know perfectly decent people who disagree with my liberal positions. Trump supporters, that's a different story. I'm sure that there are some I would generally consider decent who support him for odd reasons, though.

Yes, by the way, there are decent people who support Republicans. I know many of them, even in Madison. Deal with it.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
7. Oh I know decent Conservatives.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:46 AM
Jan 2016

But, none of them support any of the current batch of Republicans.

And I am not quite sure you had a point. Some candidates do have such odious positions or such an odious philosophy that it is not likely they will be supported by decent people.

I noticed you haven't shown an example of a decent person who is unwilling to fight for health care access for all.

Zynx

(21,328 posts)
10. I know decent Republicans who just ideologically don't believe that government should do that.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jan 2016

They're decent, polite, and moral people on the whole. I know plenty of people who don't support single payer who aren't monsters, but are concerned about the practicalities of shifting a system that is currently so radically different.

If they're totally insensitive on the issue, then I'd call them indecent, but I don't know many who approach the issue as "Eh, fuck 'em." Rather they have practical or philosophical concerns.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
12. It boils down to who do you think deserves to be without basic needs.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:55 AM
Jan 2016

If you don't think anyone should be without then you need to support making laws and doing things to support people who don't have enough income to support the basics. The question then should only be where do we get the budget for that and what can we cut to make sure we cover the basics. It should never be about not taking care of basic needs for people cuz government doesn't do that.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
52. Not all, but many who say "the government should not be in the business of ..." never say that
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:35 AM
Jan 2016

about billion$ in free cash subsidies to multinationals or about toppling foreign governments because they won't give away free drilling rights to petroleum companies or free growing rights to agribusinesses.

It's a bullshit meme that aligns too perfectly with the interests of corporate conglomerates to be a coincidence. Yes, I am guilty of questioning someone's choice of candidate if they are voting against the interests of average Americans while spewing Wall Street talking points like a sock puppet.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
21. there are a number of decent people in my life
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:25 AM
Jan 2016

who like trump. ironically, they also like bernie. many are repubs and will not cross party to vote bernie.

the progressives i know are all for bernie. i know one hillary supporter. no one is supporting any of the estsblishment gop hacks.

people are really pissed off at the system.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
4. Lets stop with the false equivalencies also, HRC supporters get called everything in the book...
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:40 AM
Jan 2016

.... including non progressive if you don't support Sanders.

Its few to none reciprocating these kinds of attacks on Sanders supporters

Zynx

(21,328 posts)
6. I didn't want to use the post to make accusations about the relative balance of attacks.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:42 AM
Jan 2016

I agree the balance is heavily on the Sanders supporters, but that wasn't the point. I've been on the receiving end of the more ardent Sanders supporters. Believe me, I hear you.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
8. Its few to none reciprocating these kinds of attacks on Sanders supporters
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:47 AM
Jan 2016

You have a really great sense of humor.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
13. "Its few to none reciprocating these kinds of attacks on Sanders supporters"
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:58 AM
Jan 2016

Sure. And given that they're all raving misogynist racist purple shirt wearing mac fanboy brogressives afflicted with white male pathology who barely have time to put gas in their broke-ass Rand Paul Sticker covered volvo klanmobiles before driving their elitist entitled selves to the library to check out atlas shrugged and getting on the public computers there to hate-swarm everything that is pure and decent on social media (and look at porn, probably) after which they commit a series of microaggressions and then head down to the local venezuelan embassy to declare their undying love for Stalin and Hugo Chavez, before finally dining on a feast of cornflake-covered brofurkey....


can you imagine how those *********s would react if they WERE called names?








by the way, your comment?

potone

(1,701 posts)
27. Thank you.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:16 PM
Jan 2016

As a woman, I particularly resent being called a misogynist for supporting Bernie over Hillary. Her gender is not the issue for me: her ties to Wall Street and her hawkishness are what disturb me.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
53. Love me some brofurkey rolled in granola, but if I don't wear socks with my sandals it gets stuck
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:39 AM
Jan 2016

between my toes.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
61. I know you got a lot of cheers for this
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:15 AM
Jan 2016

But you offered no quantifiable proof of what you allege. It's really easy to make a caricature, but if you think the childish behavior is one-sided, it's because you aren't actually paying that much attention.

Sanders supporters here have claimed that Clinton supporters are immoral for not supporting Sanders' version of single payer, I've seen a Sanders support claim that posting polls that showed Clinton in the lead was "literally suffocating" Sanders supporters. I've seen a prominent Sanders supporter call the Clintons utterly corrupt, which would indicate that those supporting Clinton must support corruption. I've seen Sanders supporters openly mock the idea of political realism as being stupid. I've seen Sanders supporters make the uninformed claim that Clinton is a Republican or the mainstream of the Democratic party is Republican in spite of overwhelming evidence that the parties are moving further apart.

But go ahead and believe that all of the vitriol is on one side. There's no law against being wrong. But it does make it clear that you and your cheering supporters have no objectivity about things.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
66. Anybody who has been in GDP for the past 6 months knows exactly what the fuck I'm talking about.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jan 2016

I don't need to "quantify" the fact that there has been an endless stream of threads like "racist sanders supporters zomg" for the past 6 months, that people have pulled out of their desperation internet narrative rear ends. You can use the search function just as well as anyone.

This is far and away different than a discussion about single payer. Look, is it "immoral" not to support it? I suppose that depends. I think a solid moral case can be made for SUPPORTING it, to be sure. But regardless, it's pretty fucking surprising to see so-called "progressives" so vehemently railing against the idea. Challenging the Clintons themselves on ethics- whatever I might feel about any underlying allegation- is NOT the same thing as running a full-tilt ad hominem smear campaign against Sanders supporters.

"which would indicate" is quantifiably different from "actually saying out loud", dig?

Also, since we apparently need to have this discussion, "ethics" in my mind includes honesty. And I actually DEFENDED the crap out of Bill Clinton, during the 90s. I still, to this day, believe the impeachment was a farce and Ken Starr had no business poking around that man's underwear drawer. But he did not need to get up in front of the country and wag his finger at the tv screen about "I did not...." See, silly me, I believed him at the time, because he said it. And boy did I feel like a fucking fool when it turned out he actually did what he claimed he "Did Not".

Ethics, in that situation, would have been to say "yeah, I did it, none of your business, between me, my family, and the other consenting adult involved, now fuck off". So please, let's not get too hamstrung with outrage that anyone might ever raise any sort of question around ethics and "The Clintons", although obviously he is not his wife and they are not a unit. But-- you brought it up.

I've seen Sanders supporters openly mock the idea of political realism as being stupid.

And again, this is equivalent to calling people here closeted white supremacists exactly how?

I've seen Sanders supporters make the uninformed claim that Clinton is a Republican or the mainstream of the Democratic party is Republican in spite of overwhelming evidence that the parties are moving further apart.


I'm sure you've seen people say silly things, I'VE seen people say silly things. I'm a lifelong Democrat because I do NOT believe that the parties are the same. But here's a quick question; the chair of the DNC allied herself with Sheldon Adelson (a Republican) to make sure the government could put sick people in prison for using medical marijuana. Do you think that's defensible? Do you think that's what the Democratic Party- OUR Democratic Party- is or should be about? Is it a legitimate grounds to criticize her and elements of our self-appointed "mainstream"?

I can't seem to get anyone to answer that, probably because teaming up with republicans to put sick people in prison for using medical marijuana is pretty fucking indefensible. But to me it indicates something of a problem, or a disconnect, with some of our leadership.

I don't "believe the vitriol is all on one side", but, then, I never said that in that post. Actually, ironically, that post was refuting someone else who said "the vitriol is all on one side"- namely, the Sanders side. So maybe you should talk to them, and not me.

The reason people liked it is because it is pretty friggin' spot on given the bullshit that has come out of the HRC camp for the past 6 months- and really, it is indicative of the fact that they haven't wanted to argue on the basis of actual issues, instead throwing out lame gibberish about "berniebros".


 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
20. Um, Hillary is NOT progressive. She is a neoliberal.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:01 AM
Jan 2016

And I don't like her using the term "progressive" since she diminishes it's meaning.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
35. Her neoliberalism is a fact. It's not a smear, unless you don't like neoliberalism.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:38 AM
Jan 2016

But, you must like neoliberalism if you are supporting the Clintons in this campaign, right? Or you're afraid of right-wing propaganda against the surging progressive candidate. Which is it?

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
36. Sanders can't throw stones, no matter how many of them his camp thinks he can hold in his hands
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jan 2016

...he can't throw stones.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
39. That Sanders can throw no stones?!!? Seriouslly, you need that explained to you?!! REALLY?! ...
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:06 AM
Jan 2016

... bookmarked... starting to see a pattern.

There's google... you know that right!?

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
40. Really. You're "starting to see a pattern" because I'm not picking up on your vague insults? (nt)
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:11 AM
Jan 2016

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
41. Sanders can throw no stones is not vague and not an insult, you most likely need to start paying...
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:14 AM
Jan 2016

... closer attention to what you read or follow the thread of conversation better.

This is simple, he's chiding others when he's not 50% better on a ton of issues...

Folk aren't going to vote for slightly better, that's what people are seeing out of Sanders ... his camp thinks he's 180 degrees from Hillary...

He aint, facts matter

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
42. You are apparently impervious to facts, friend. Why don't you spell out these vague
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:28 AM
Jan 2016

issues that you disagree with Sanders on, instead of making false insinuations?

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
45. 1. Giving a corporations undue immunity 2. Brady Bill votes 3. pragmatic on reparations ....
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:33 AM
Jan 2016

... but chides others for being pragmatic on any tenant of the left 4. voted for CFMA which took the cops off the wall street hedging 5. Slogans in response to how's he going to get his agenda past congress 6. not even slogans when it comes to his recent record on mobilizing the left to get any agenda past congress in the last 10 years.... 7. hugs too many baby bunny rabbits.

That's just to name a few

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
46. Reparations? Who are you voting for that supports reparations? I am unaware of Clinton's reparations
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:39 AM
Jan 2016

support. Did she recently say something that makes you think that she supports reparations? Or are you maybe a supporter of some oddball third party that supports reparations?

To my knowledge, the issues that Sanders supports just about *all* have majority, popular support, outside of any labels. Reparations is controversial even within the black community. They, generally, consider it a distraction from far more pressing issues like criminal justice reform.

And speaking of criminal justice reform, I'm unaware of *any* decent policy proposals by Clinton on the subject, beyond Bill saying that he made some mistakes - as president - on the subject, but Sanders has praise from BLM activists on his policy proposals.

Bernie Sanders’ New Racial Justice Platform Wins Praise From Black Lives Matter Activists
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/08/10/3689728/after-repeated-protests-bernie-sanders-releases-racial-justice-platform/

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
47. I would love to vote for Sanders on reparations but he's too pragmatic on the issue cause...
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:03 AM
Jan 2016

...you know... gotta have revolution but not for "those" things right!?

Clinton isn't grabbing the revolution flag Sanders is, so that's his cross to bear not anyone elses... I'm calling BS ..... on revolutions with asterisks by them.

Majority of blacks support reparations so I have no idea where you think its controversial?! Of course a few doesn't represent the many, that's sophistry of a weak position...

And ...

It's SOME BLM activist not BLM activist, I'm not a LIV... I prolly post here too much... but relatively few BLM activist are supporting candidates right now.

Either way, he's pragmatic on tenants of the left.... just like the rest of them... I'm not putting out for slightly better

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
48. Don't lie. You aren't going to vote for any candidate based on reparations.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:10 AM
Jan 2016

You already admit you won't vote on candidates based on criminal justice reform.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
49. I sure the fuck would, in a heart beat ... Sanders would never support reparations though
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:15 AM
Jan 2016

... that would be ...


Revolutionary




no?

tia

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
50. So you could care less about criminal justice reform, but reparations is *your* issue.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:44 AM
Jan 2016

I think you're lying, but whatever. I don't think you actually care a whit about any of the topics you listed beyond their use as a hammer to hammer your progressive opposition with.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
59. Why do you pose it as an either/or?
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:48 AM
Jan 2016

Does his campaign have a quota on "black" issue and have to pick just one? Or are we allowed to care about more than one "black" issue?

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
23. As I've already mentioned in another thread
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:55 PM
Jan 2016

There are far more Bernie supporters here and on social media than Hillary supporters. So, obviously you will see more kickback. It's the real numbers, not the percentages you are seeing. And they are no more vicious coming from the Bernie side. It's very easy to overlook those posts that don't attack your own guy, and only focus on those that do.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
43. That is so so so true.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:32 AM
Jan 2016

"It's very easy to overlook those posts that don't attack your own guy, and only focus on those that do"

frylock

(34,825 posts)
28. Progressives don't support regressive policy.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jan 2016

It's a real easy test. Merely calling yourself a progressive doesn't make you one.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
37. Regressive policies like giving a whole industry undue immunity?! Sanders can't be a stone thrower
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:54 AM
Jan 2016

Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

 

Iggy Knorr

(247 posts)
11. Yeah it kind of is actually
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:54 AM
Jan 2016

pay attention, don't vote like you are already in the 1% and just hoping to get a crack at holding the whip.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
19. This is exactly why religion demonizes those who don't believe.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 05:01 AM
Jan 2016

If you believe, sincerely and completely, it becomes very difficult to understand how any other thinking person can believe differently. It doesn't matter if it's a political candidate, or a version of God. It's the honest belief in one's own thinking that makes it so hard to understand that anyone else can possibly believe differently.

At least with political campaigns, in the end most people wind up supporting their party's candidate. But in the area of religion, because there's not an end to the campaign, things tend to get worse and worse.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
22. if someone says that they'll support a candidate no matter what policies they have because
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:53 PM
Jan 2016

the candidate must be supported no matter what the cost to America because they're the candidate, that's a damn big moral failing

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
25. Yes, it is very hard to believe. Group identity dictates group behavior
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:05 PM
Jan 2016

the stronger the identity the stronger the behavior,

And given an audience of one's in-group peers, the greater the rewards for the behavior.

I see that in-group reward as a likely reason why so many secondary websites have been started that promote anti-out group conversations.



Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
57. The only 'secondary website'
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:04 AM
Jan 2016

I also post on with folks from here was formed because of people getting banned for making statements about their primary vote that are purely hypothetical until the nominee is selected, and other folks figuring there's a good chance they'll get banned along the road as well. Not to be an 'in-group' or an 'out-group', but simply to avoid being silenced entirely by selective interpretation of the rules.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
58. It seems you are arguing that you and those like you don't want to be mistreated by 'them'
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:44 AM
Jan 2016

'those ' who are seen as threatening or disagreeable 'others'. To me even as your reply is caste as an explanation/justification it still draws upon the tradition of us vs them.

I'm not really surprised by that for several reasons.. first, humans are evolved to be gregarious and not surprisingly exist largely within coalitions. One might think that's only a latent feature of humanity from our deep past, but it's an active and integral part of contemporary life which is very pronounced in social media and internet forums. In those environments lack of reinforcing physical proximity must be replaced with reinforcing language and even alternative virtual spaces to separate the us and the them.

Second, my life experiences, and the biases I have developed via those experiences within and outside of coalitions, shape my need, sensitivity and awareness of the coalitions I encounter. Like everyone, I see what I look for...my in-groups are good and justified, just like yours are. My out-groups are not so good and they have values that are deviant and they do bad things.

renate

(13,776 posts)
29. I thought you were talking about Bernie vs Hillary
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:02 PM
Jan 2016

I get really sad when I see over-the-top criticisms of either one here on DU, because one of them is going to be the Democratic candidate and they are both, IMO, good people and I would be proud to vote for either one.

I do think there is something pretty wrong with people who support Trump, Cruz, or Christie. Of course good people can be Republican, but I genuinely think there is something sub-average about the discernment of people who fall for that kind of belligerent, bullying, mean-spirited-for-the-sake-of-being-mean-spirited bullpoo.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
31. It was very immature
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:15 PM
Jan 2016

of the colonists to throw Tea in the harbor

We are fighting for our nation's future. I don't care if it's impolite. Revolutions are not polite and mature. Sorry.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
56. Interesting. Look through this thread, note the posters who essentially
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:31 AM
Jan 2016

say, "No. It is not possible that those supporting the other candidate can be decent people. They are morally repugnant and we are morally superior."

Now note which candidate those particular posters support.

I think that will answer the question posed by the OP. Apparently, for a certain type of person, it is impossible to believe that decent people can support the other candidate.

Another mechanism that is at work here that seems to have gone over many heads: DU is about 90 - 95% Sanders supporters at this point. Yet there are frequent OP's by Bernie supporters bemoaning all the "hatred" on DU.

But the fact is that right now, Bernie supporters ARE DU.

Plenty of them are great people. But others are simply unwilling to acknowledge that their opponents could be anything but horrible. They say so in this very thread. If you hate the hatred on DU, you have to look to those people.

And for those who feel that Hillary supporters are the primary culprits of the vitriol, you are obviously mistaken. Check your math. There are simply not enough remaining Hillary supporters willing to post here to be able to match the pervasive Hillary hate. They've all been driven away by the nastiness.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
60. You said this so well.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:50 AM
Jan 2016

This is the straight up truth, but I certainly don't expect the people who need to hear it will hear it at all -

But it needs to be said - Thanks!

elana i am

(814 posts)
62. if the contest was between sanders and omalley i might agree with you
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:17 AM
Jan 2016

it would only be a matter of a few degrees, nowhere near as much fundamental difference.

but this is closer to a paradigm shift, where the difference is a 180 change in direction, a potential solution, a reversal of fortunes if you will, away from what's wrong and toward what is right. it couldn't possibly be any more moral and ethical.

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