I heard on MSNBC that 42% of Iowa Democrats, also, ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

self-identify as being socialists (or, perhaps, democratic socialists).

Can anyone point me to a source that supports or refutes that claim?

[JaneyVee]

1. That's true and...

68% of Iowa Dems say they're ok with a Dem Socialist president. This state was tailor made for Bernie to win: FAIL.

[rurallib]

5. Fail? Sanders came from a huge deficit to basically tie dead even

O'Malley had the same deficit and went nowhere.
Sanders almost did the impossible here. It was amazing.

What should be of concern is that a candidate could fall so far to end in a dead heat.
Clinton walked in the door with a huge lead, money, name recognition and organization and came within an eyelash of losing to a little known senator from a small state.

This will be a major concern if Clinton is the party nominee.

[JaneyVee]

8. And he lost, in a state tailor made for him to win.

[rurallib]

13. uh - ok

[Human101948]

14. Hillary's victory, based on a coin toss, is a devastating loss...

With all her experience and political capital, it shows that, while the establishment is behind her, support among actual voters is very, very shaky.

[riversedge]

21. Only in the bubble induced Sanders fans minds

[Human101948]

22. Oh, you've caught me...I realize that this is a tsunami of support for Hillary...

Overwhelming win...Sanders must concede the nomination right now!

[jham123]

41. too funny

Some will never understand what is right in front of their face.

The Clinton Campaign machine bested by the Curmudgeon from the East.

[John Poet]

44. It was a Hillary victory SO HUGE

that you need a microscope to see it.

[blackspade]

58. Tailor made in what way?

That wasn't the narrative a few days ago.

[NurseJackie]

6. +1

[Human101948]

17. They are okay with it...they didn't say they were voting for Bernie...your argument is faulty

Hillary should have wiped the floor with Bernie, instead she squeaked by on a coin toss. Shows what a gamble she will be as the Democratic nominee.

P.S.--We already have a Kenyan socialist in the White House.

[Arazi]

2. Caucus goers self identify and that was in relation to whether they are "capitalists"

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/17/1471163/-Red-dawn-More-Iowa-Democratic-caucus-goers-identify-as-socialist-than-capitalist

[firebrand80]

3. Page 15, 43%

http://media.bloomberg.com/bb/avfile/rgsikEKtNf30

IMO, All it really tells you is that they responded favorably to the word socialist. It's not like that many people are walking around using that term every day.

[Gothmog]

52. Thanks

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. 43% self-identify as socialists, rather than capitalists, not 'social democrats' rather than

'democrats'.

They're big on co-ops. That's a strong strategy in agricultural circles for small farmers to compete against the corporate agri-businesses, letting them compete against the corps rather than each other.

[JDPriestly]

12. Right. Iowa and Minnesota were big progressive states. I know that from my family history.

My grandfather was a farmer. He went to high school. That was not some little trifling accomplishment for Iowa farmers at the time. He listened to the radio and read journals on farming and was trusted as a resource for all kinds of information by other farmers, his neighbors. I remember visiting and having one of the farmers from a neighboring farm come to his door and ask for advice about if I remember correctly (it has been a long, long, long time) when to harvest.

The farmers at that time and probably still were a community. At harvest time, they had to decide who would get the harvest machinery (the combine?? Am I right that that is what it was called?) to come to their farm. They had to cooperate on the schedule. Farming at least then was not just a competitive thing although it certainly was a competitive business in some respects. Neighbors had to help each other. It was all about community as well as about working very hard for yourself and doing your best. My grandfather was great with animals and used to help neighbors with lots of things including taking care of sick animals.

It does not surprise me that farmers would understand the advantages of a community working together toward some goals. On the other hand, farmers are individualists because farming demands a lot of work and determination. It is very, very difficult, and the individual is responsible for the outcome in the end.

[Vinca]

7. I wonder what the number would be if the question was framed like this:

"Keeping in mind that Social Security and Medicare are socialist programs, would you consider yourself a socialist?" For the most part, people don't know one "ist" from another, but they know they love programs which have been created by everyone to help everyone.

[brooklynite]

10. I see - push polling.

The are social programs. Unless they involve the public ownership of the means of production, they are not socialist.

[JDPriestly]

15. Bernie does not mean public ownership of the means of production when he speaks of

democratic socialism. You are thinking of Marxism. That is not the same as democratic socialism. Not at all. Democratic socialism is what you have in many countries in Europe. It is also called a mixed economy. IKEA was originally a Swedish company if I remember correctly. Sweden is a democratic socialist country. IKEA is not owned by the Swedish government.

[brooklynite]

19. I know it not what HE means...but he doesn't get to change the definition of words

Socialism is a political ideology and movement which has proposed a set of social and economic measures, policies and systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production.

Marxism is a method of socioeconomic analysis, originating from the mid-to-late 19th century works of German philosophers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, that analyzes class relations and societal conflict using a materialist interpretation of historical development and a dialectical view of social transformation.

Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, measures for income redistribution, and a commitment to representative democracy.Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater egalitarian, democratic and solidaristic outcomes; and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Western and Northern Europe—particularly the Nordic model in the Nordic countries—during the latter half of the 20th century

[politicaljunkie41910]

49. Thank you. I've been saying the same thing since that last DNC Town Hall Meeting when Bernie

gave his definition of what "he" defined as a "Democratic Socialist". Bernie doesn't get to redefine the term to suit his candidacy. There are political groups out there that consider themselves "Democratic Socialists" and there is a definitive definition of what Democratic Socialism is. So it is disingenuous of Bernie to try and re-define himself based on a definition that exists only in his mind and what he chooses it to mean.

Here's Bernie's response was at the DNC Town Hall Meeting when asked how he defined "Democratic Socialist" to clear up the confusion.

QUESTION: Yes, Senator, some of your detractors have called you a socialist on occasions, and you don't seem too troubled by that, and sometimes embrace it. I wondered if you could elaborate on that...

SANDERS: ... Sure...

QUESTION: ... And just to show us what the comfort level you have your definition of it so that it doesn't concern the rest of us citizens.

SANDERS: Well, what Democratic Socialism means, to me, is that economic rights, the right to economic security is - should exist in the United States of America. It means to me that there's something wrong when we have millions of senior citizens today trying to get by on $11, $12,000 a year Social Security. It means there's something wrong when the rich get richer, and almost everybody else gets poorer. It means there is something wrong, and government should play a role in making sure that all of our kids, regardless of their income, are able to get a higher education.
Which is why I'm calling for free tuition at public colleges and universities, and why we have to deal with this horrendous level of student debt that people are having.

Now, what's going on in countries around the world, in Scandinavia, and in Germany. The ideas that I am talking about are not radical ideas. So, what Democratic Socialism means to me in its essence is that we cannot continue to have a government dominated by the billionaire class, and a congress that continues to work for the interest of the people on top while ignoring working families.

What this campaign is about, and what I believe, is creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top. That's my definition of Democratic Socialism.

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2016/01/26/cnn-iowa-democratic-presidential-town-hall-rush-transcript/

For Bernie to mislead his supporters with his "tailor-made" definition of what Democratic Socialism is, is wrong on so many levels. The fact that he has the youth vote doesn't surprise me, because he is talking about things in tangible terms that they are the ones who stand to benefit the most from with the policies he is proposing. Unfortunately, Bernie is preying on their naivete as he's only telling them good things that they want to hear. He's not being realistic about the costs, the impact on our debt, and the ability to actually get those policies to become a reality in the current political climate.

[Vinca]

18. I see - deception.

You want to give the impression that it's all a Commie plot. Those are socialist programs. Other socialist programs include the military and the Interstate highway system.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I am a capitalist-socialist.

I want to use the profits capitalism generates to ameliorate social ills but it is disingenuous to argue supporting public roads makes one a socialist. By that loose definition Adam Smith was a socialist.

[Vinca]

36. Whatever - I don't really care. I just wish you'd stop red baiting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. If you can one example of me red biting I would appreciate it if you could cite it.

Thank you in advance.

[Vinca]

38. Sorry - I thought I was posting a response to another poster.

You sound more like a fan of trickle down economics. Wrong site?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. I would tell you what you can do with your ad hominem

Sorry - I thought I was posting a response to another poster.
You sound more like a fan of trickle down economics. Wrong site

I would tell you what you can do with your ad hominem attack but I don't want a hide. As it is I will leave it to your fertile imagination.

Using an anonymous medium to disrespect random strangers is neither cute nor clever.

Your turn.

[Vinca]

42. Follow your own advice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. I made an innocuous remark

I made an innocuous remark. You then accused me of saying something I didn't say. I had the temerity to point it out and then you doubled down and made an ad hominem attack on me. Maybe that works with other posters but it doesn't work with me.



Your turn.

[Vinca]

46. If you considered what I said an attack, you are a tender flower.

Oops. My apologies. Another attack.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. It has nothing...

it has nothing to do with being a "tender flower" and everything to do with the fact I made an innocuous comment and your response was to bear false witness against me. When I had the temerity to point it out you refused to do the civil thing and apologize and instead made an ad hominem attack on me.

Oh, almost forgot, we are now on your third attack on me.

[Vinca]

50. I feel like a dog chasing its tail. End of discussion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Have a nice day. It never hurts to be polite and civil./nt

[Human101948]

20. Guess you better check on what socialism means in places where it really exists...

Forbes (The Capitalist Tool) says--

Looking for a land of opportunity? The Old World beckons. Despite a sluggish economy, Europe dominates the top of FORBES’ annual ranking of the finest countries for capitalism—with Scandinavia as a particular stand-out. European countries represent two-thirds of the top 25 with Denmark repeating in the lead position of the Best Countries for Business.

The picture isn’t as bright for the U.S., which slides four spots to No. 22.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/12/16/the-best-countries-for-business-2015/#d1ab59d7364c

[brooklynite]

24. "the finest countries for capitalism"

[Human101948]

28. Do you understand that those countries are democratic socialist?

I suspect you are not dim witted, just obstinate and feigning stupidity.

[brooklynite]

30. No, they're Social Democracies

No, Bernie Sanders, Scandinavia is not a socialist utopia

WHEN BERNIE SANDERS was asked during CNN’s Democratic presidential debate how a self-proclaimed socialist could hope to be elected to the White House, he gave the answer he usually gives: Socialism has been wonderful for the countries of Scandinavia, and America should emulate their example.

...snip...

Such paeans may inspire Clinton’s love and Sanders’ faith in America’s socialist future. As with most urban legends, however, the reality of Scandinavia’s welfare-state utopia doesn’t match the hype.

To begin with, explains Swedish scholar Nima Sanandaji, the affluence and cultural norms upon which Scandinavia’s social-democratic policies rest are not the product of socialism. In “Scandinavian Unexceptionalism,” a penetrating new book published by the Institute of Economic Affairs, Sanandaji shows that the Nordic nations’ prosperity “developed during periods characterized by free-market policies, low or moderate taxes, and limited state involvement in the economy.”

...snip...

The real key to Scandinavia’s unique successes isn’t socialism, it’s culture. Social trust and cohesion, a broad egalitarian ethic, a strong emphasis on work and responsibility, commitment to the rule of law — these are healthy attributes of a Nordic culture that was ingrained over centuries. In the region’s small and homogeneous countries (overwhelmingly white, Protestant, and native-born), those norms took deep root. The good outcomes and high living standards they produced antedated the socialist nostrums of the 1970s. Scandinavia’s quality of life didn’t spring from leftist policies. It survived them.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/10/15/bernie-sanders-scandinavia-not-socialist-utopia/lUk9N7dZotJRbvn8PosoIN/story.html

[Human101948]

32. Workable systems from other countries will never work here...

So we just have to accept the current clusterfuck.

Republican hogwash all the way.

[brooklynite]

34. Nobody objects to expanding the social safety net

It's this insistence on calling it "socialism" (modified or not) that I can't accept, because it presents huge risks in the General Election.

[Human101948]

35. Duly noted.

I am not as concerned, even though I grew up in the era of Senator McCarthy.

[LexVegas]

9. Meh...wait until we get to a state where there are actually some minorities voting.

People will see how shallow the support for Sanders really is.

[JDPriestly]

16. Hillary started out way ahead in Iowa. She gradually lost support.

Bernie will do well across the country. He does well with independents. Look at the caucus exit poll results. They are broken down by all kinds of demographics. Hillary does better with people who have higher incomes and live in suburbs. Bernie does better with the young, with people with lower incomes and people who do not live in the suburbs.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. Don't forget about HRC's doing better with ...

Latinos and African-Americans and large segments of women voters and large segments of the LGBT voters.

Though I really would like to see the segmentation of those demographics to see how Bernie fairs among the young among lower-incomed and urban, Latinos, African-Americans, and LGBT (I have seen the female demographic segmented out) ... just to see how Bernie fairs.

[joshcryer]

11. Lowering expectations...

...is not how Clinton won in 2008.

[Bettie]

23. We moved here 14 years ago

and I quickly learned two things.

1. Iowa liberals tend, overall to be VERY liberal.

2. Iowa conservatives tend, overall to be VERY conservative.

[AgingAmerican]

26. OMalley got his ass handed to him

...not that you ever cared..

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. I have two words for you ...

but will not give you the satisfaction of allowing you to bait me into using them so you can skip to the alert button.

I'll just say ... Keep up the classy discourse.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. And more ... What does that have to do with they question I asked? eom

[amborin]

29. thought that was referring to university students, not the general electorate

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. No ...

Here is the underlying survey.

http://media.bloomberg.com/bb/avfile/rgsikEKtNf30

[yardwork]

43. I live in the south. I assure you that this is not true in the south.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. I suspect it's not true for many/any other states/regions in America. n/t

[yardwork]

53. Vermont.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. Yeah? ... Then, where?

[yardwork]

55. Maybe New Hampshire.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. Is this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1121038

What you are trying to say?

[yardwork]

57. I just found that! Yes, that's it!