Excuse me, but who died and made Bernie the "decider" of who's progressive

[ecstatic]

and who's not? I'm watching the live presser and his answer to that question really pissed me off. The guy who, before he started running for president, enabled gun manufacturers and referred to issues that are extremely important to ME as cultural / social distractions that liberals shouldn't focus on.

[arcane1]

1. He was asked who made him the decider of who's progressive?

[NowSam]

5. Ha Ha Ha! LOL.

Awesome.

[Armymedic88]

3. The reporter asked if he believed she was progressive...

He gave HIS opinion jeezzz take a chill pill

[JaneyVee]

4. And reparations have no chance in Congress but single payer does?

Unicorns and fairy dust for all.

[Fearless]

11. The poutrage is strong in this one.

[Bjornsdotter]

18. Poutrage?!

Omg.....I am stealing that!

[Ed Suspicious]

33. Extremely. Especially after a forced time out.

[uponit7771]

74. So is the marginalizing with you

[Matariki]

17. Curious what Clinton's plan to get to univeral coverage is

which she claims is her goal.

Maybe instead of fining people without insurance she plans on jailing them? Her contributors from the private prison industry would like that, so I guess win/win?

[JaneyVee]

20. 1-She doesnt take money from private prison. 2-UHC and single payer not the same thing.

We are at nearly 90% insured, why collapse an entire system and millions of jobs to insure the other 10%? Expand medicaid and achieve universal.

[cali]

25. She did until recently

You don't get your own made up "facts".


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/23/3715544/clinton-private-prisons/

And that's from podesta's site.

Furthermore, two of her top bundlers are lobbyists for the prison industry.

http://www.presente.org/campaign/hillaryprivateprisons/original_email/

The ACA is going to be very difficult to sustain. The insurance companies are not just grumbling, the largest has pulled out.


Over 40 million Americans are still uninsured. Tens of millions more are underinsured. Most personal bankruptcies are due to medical expenses.

<snip>

A recent Harvard University study showed that medical expenses account for approximately 62 percent of personal bankruptcies in the US. Interestingly, the study also showed that 72 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy due to medical expenses had some type of health insurance, thus debunking the myth that only the uninsured face financial catastrophes due to medical-related
expenses.

<snip>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simple-thrifty-living/top-10-reasons-people-go-_b_6887642.html

[SheenaR]

54. Lol

What are these facts that you speak of

[Matariki]

91. Thank you Cali

lady with the facts!

[Matariki]

65. That is a non-answer

Yes, obviously Universal Health Care and Single Payer aren't neccesarily one in the same. Hence my question.

HOW does Clinton propose to get to 100%? What is her plan for that?

I am seriously NOT impressed with the ACA's solution of solving the problem by FINING people who for whatever reason don't have insurance. It's like 'solving' homelessness by fining or jailing the homeless.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

92. She most certainly did take money from private prison contractors.

Untrue statements will be challenged at every turn.

[TheBlackAdder]

24. Reparations should go to the Native Americans first, who are still subject to systemic control. nt

.


After they get several trillion dollars back, and one forth of the land assets, then move to the next group.


.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. As a Black man ... I'm cool with that. Please write to Bernie. eom.

[TheBlackAdder]

38. I'm a neutral poli-sci guy, and that unicorn argument is such a lame attack point.

.

If you took a lot of poli-sci courses, you'd know that institutional change rarely happens over peacefil times.

Swift changes require an institutional disruption, such as the Civil War, Women's Sufferage, the Civil Right's Movement, etc.


If you are fine by having incremental changes that might take another century, that's OK. It sounds as if the defeatist status quo position will somehow translate itself into political change. This is not going to happen, since 1/2 half of the government is held by conservatives who are against change, and many of the democrats are centrists.

You need to excite and replace people in office and that won't happen without an upheaval.


Since Obama and Clinto are against reparations, you pretty much know where that stands. A dead issue.

If Sanders gets in, perhaps he can bring enough down-ballot change to effect congressional change. His getting into office is imperitive for this to happen, and his being elected could act as the 'Trojan Horse' to get someone in office that might actually work for it.


.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. I responded to the dismissiveness of your "start with the Native Americans, first" response ...

I've taken plenty of under-grad Poli- Sci courses (I was a Poli Sci/Econ major).

Swift changes require an institutional disruption, such as the Civil War, Women's Sufferage, the Civil Right's Movement, etc.

Interesting that you would term that "swift changes" when each of the institutional disruptions you mention when generations in the making, and were only possible, because of the incremental victories that preceded themselves.

[TheBlackAdder]

72. Yep, so we'll sit back for several generations before the next set of changes. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. Nope ... We, those of us who are non-neutral observers ...

continue to do what works ... we continue working, and voting, for progressive change, rather than, wait for the institutional disruption that magically occurs.

[TheBlackAdder]

82. It is obvious 'We, those of us . . .' fail to grasp the application of historical reference. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. But we have a firm grasp on what works. eom.

[TheBlackAdder]

84. Yes, the defeatist status quo. Enjoy. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

85. Incrementalism is by definition, neither defeatist,nor status quo. eom.

[TheBlackAdder]

90. That depends on which way the creep occurs. As money drains from low/middle class, no relief. nt

[azurnoir]

27. 2 questions for ya

1 who will be responsible for paying reparations, who's pocket will the money come from?

2 who will be responsible for paying for single payer?

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. The tax payers (including corporations) and the tax payers (including corporations), as the both ...

would benefit from both.

[azurnoir]

36. what corporation and what taxpayers? on both questions and please be specific

as opposed to ......

[1StrongBlackMan]

43. All corporations and All tax payers ...

a very simplistic tax scheme would be: closing the corporate loophole, taxing carry-through and most passive income as earned income, removing the cap on the payroll tax and provide a tax credit in an amount to be determined for every Black citizen, that resided in the US between 1868 (the reneging on the Freedman Bureau's charge) and 1968 (the passage of the Civil Rights Act) and extend the tax credit for 5 generations - the period justice was denied by the US Government - or, 20 generations, if one wants to tie reparations to slavery (but, I'm cool with the first formula).

[azurnoir]

45. so Black Americans get a special tax credit have I got tht right for the next 125 years? counting a

generation as 25 years?

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. Yes ... Black Americans were subjected to "special discrimination" ...

by the US Government for more than 125 years.

Seems reparative, no?

[azurnoir]

49. now what will be the end result will this in your opinion lead to greater racial harmony

or doesn't that matter at all? also what about states that were not part of the US for periods of the 101 years you delineate, Alaska and Hawaii were not states until 1959, others earlier but well after 1868 do we prorate them? Are recent immigrants supposed to pay if they are not Black?

[azurnoir]

42. Let me be more clear here when you say taxpayers do you mean all taxpayers?

that would equate to Black people to some degree paying their own reparations

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. No ... Black People would be paying for single-payer with their increased taxes. eom

[azurnoir]

50. everyone would pay for single payer and everyone would benefit

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Yep. eom.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. The past 7 years of opposition to the ACA, and the 60+ votes to repeal it ...

were just a mirage. The rightwing really does want single-payer because ... magic.

[Armstead]

32. So I assume you are going to press Clinton on reparations?

[uponit7771]

75. Clinton is not calling for revolution on Obama and the democrats agenda, Sanders is

[Jenny_92808]

89. Although I agree with

reparations. I don't think it is possible in this point in time. What I do agree with is what Bernie is saying, Lets change things so things can become fairer.

[Blue_Tires]

6. I'm still trying to find out

Who gets to decide what is or isn't "Establishment"

[Fearless]

9. Everyone would be the establishment if they wanted everyone

[w4rma]

23. By the end of this election, I want Bernie Sanders to be a part of the new "establishment" :D (nt)

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. That's easy ...

the "establishment" is them ... "progressives" is everyone that thinks like me, until the don't agree with me, which means they are them.

[Fearless]

7. I believe the issue is that Hillary had literally claimed to be both

Even last night... She's "progressive" again yay!!! 111!!

[uponit7771]

8. Sanders voted for the CFMA, against the Brady Bill 5 times, For corporate immunity and ...

... now pals around with two Obama haters Bigga and West.

He decides who is progressive because he is the perfect progressive !!! /sarcasm <--- cause this is needed around here

[Fearless]

10. You have the understanding of a fox news taking point

On this matter.

[uponit7771]

16. I gave facts you give ad homs... indicator of a weak position

[Fearless]

41. You don't understand.

[DirtyHippyBastard]

80. Clinton voted for the IWR, and to bail out Wall Street bankers and...

pals around with Bushes and Kissinger.
She decides who is progressive because she is the perfect progressive.

[Armymedic88]

12. What is she?!?!

[democrank]

14. More weathervane BS

[tk2kewl]

22. She's all things to all people

And wants us all to love her, be we stricken with poverty or drowning in billions. Talk about unicorns...

[CajunBlazer]

13. K&R

[democrank]

15. How many progressives

voted for the Iraq War? Just curious.

[Ned_Devine]

39. None

[jeff47]

19. Excuse me, but when did he claim he was?

Reporter asked what Sanders opinion on what made Sanders a progressive.

Is Sanders not allowed to have an opinion of his own politics?

[tk2kewl]

21. sensible economics and the social contract died, that's who.

And they were killed by the GOP and 3rd Way Democrats to usher in the finace-centric neoliberal economics that is destroying the planet and it's people.

[valerief]

26. Hillary did.

[1StrongBlackMan]

28. The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King!!! eom.

[DefenseLawyer]

29. Sounds like you could use a few months in a re-education camp, comrade n/t

[EdwardBernays]

30. c'mere

Hillary's campaign is being paid for and run by lobbyists and the owner of one of the biggest lobbying firms in DC.

That firm - owned by her Campaign Chairman - lobbies for the weapons industry and big pharma and Saudi Arabia.

I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of progressive.

[JudyM]

56. At least Barak refused to take money from lobbyists. This s*^* stinks. Nt

[EdwardBernays]

57. I hate to break it to you...

but he had the same person - the owner of the lobbying firm - as his "personal advisor". Bill had that same guy as his Chief of Staff.

Lobbyists are in deep with these guys...

[JudyM]

58. (Sigh)

[EdwardBernays]

59. yep

and that's why we really need a complete change... not just more of the same

[Ferd Berfel]

40. Sorry Kids. Yo can't do this

And Call yourself Progressive - Unless it's Orwellian Snark

This is REgressive

[bkkyosemite]

44. What really pissed me off is when she said she was a Moderate

and smiled so big then a few months later is saying the same words Bernie has said including the word Progressive. Another thing that pisses me off is when she said there was sniper fire all around her...and I'm her age I don't think I should go into more.

[JudyM]

62. +1

[wildeyed]

51. I have an idea for a website.

Let's play "I'm So Liberal".

Three belief categories: Social Justice, Economic, Foreign Policy.

You make a selection in each categories from a variety of policy choices. Each choice is assigned a point value. The more liberal the choice, the more points:

Action Points:
Voting average over past ten years or the number of years you have been old enough to vote. You have to provide a screen shot of your voting record to verify (personal info deleted).

AND

Average number of hours per year you have devoted to progressive causes or politicians, 10 years or from your 18th birthday. (harder to prove, but important)

Add 'em up and that's you Liberal Score. Then you can just post a link to your score for the purpose of online arguing

Pretty sure I would kick most ass just based on my social justice and action points. Also don't care because I am not an ideologue..... But more than that, it might help clarify for some of the more clueless what progressive actually means.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. Would you lose points for hours spent going around bragging on yourself? nt

[wildeyed]

63. Pretty funny from a guy

who feels the need to list his academic degrees on his profile page.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

64. People visit other people's profile pages?

My PhD diploma hung in my closet for years, cause I'm such a braggart.

[wildeyed]

69. And also posted on your public profile.

Who does that?

Plus, I was there that day Grabthar dropped his Hammer on the neckbeards. Funny as shit. And then you decided to start a thread on the same topic in AA forum

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

93. You mean that guy who throws around insults on twitter?

Yeah, if you think he's so funny, that tells me about your level of maturity. So I'll just wave goodbye to you too, it's off to ignore with you.

[wildeyed]

94. Oh come on. it's Twitter.

So quit with the butthurt. And you were playing WAY out of your league. Again.

Pro tip: Pick your battles wisely, particularly on that platform. No juries to come save you there, and it is notoriously brutal.

[Bobbie Jo]

73. ...

Don't mind me, but touché.

[wildeyed]

96. And now he went away mad!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. Hmmm, where's that 'Butthurt Everywhere' gif I saw earlier today? nt

[silvershadow]

55. He knows one when he sees one? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

60. you seem tense.

[ecstatic]

67. Yes, I was having a rough day and I lost it when I overheard his presser.

He's acting like a sore loser and I hate that! Spreading rumors, suggesting that the Iowa democrats cheated. That's a new low, IMO. Even trump was more gracious in his loss.

[JimDandy]

86. Asking for vote totals isn't personal, it's fundamental to elections!

I could give you the rah, rah reasons for wanting accurate election results such as: "That is the stuff that literally promotes a democracy"... or "If only Gore had insisted on proof like Bernie is doing instead of conceding so quickly"... But I won't, because the actual reason is entirely sufficient: The Democratic Party is a business whose service, in this instance, is elections and whose product is accurate vote totals.

Sander's request for an accurate raw vote total is just business! If our party, in this case the Iowa Democrats, can't handle such a reasonable request to perform a contractual obligation, then it needs to get out of the business of elections.

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. If you're voting for HRH, you aren't even close to being a TRUE Progressive /TRUE Liberal.

Just because you call yourself Progressive/Liberal, that doesn't make you one. Actions speak louder than words. Voting for a Far Right candidate automatically means you aren't a True Progressive /True Liberal. Progressives have values, ethics and empathy for our fellow citizens...which HRH voters do not possess.

Do you support the Progressive agenda?

Medicare-for-all/Single Payer healthcare so all your fellow citizens can have healthcare? HRH DOESN'T.

Do you believe Wall St. Crooks should be held accountable when they destroy our economy? HRH doesn't.

Do you believe big banks should be broken up so they can't destroy our economy again? HRH doesn't.

Are you against wars? HRH isn't!

Are you against Prisons for Profits? HRH isn't!

Are you against GMOs and not labeling our food when it's Gmo? HRH ISN'T!

Are you against Fracking? HRH isn't!

Are you against the TPP? HRH isn't!

Are you against NAFTA? HRH isn't! And it cost us 60,000 factories and millions of jobs.

Are you against the XL PIPELINE? HRH isn't!

Are you against the bankruptcy bill? That HRH voted for and disproportionately hurts poor women and children

Are you against Monsanto? The company destroying our food supply, and if they aren't destroying our food supply, why won't they label our food? HRH isn't! Did ya see Mr. Monsanto (Vilsack) at HRH's "victory" speech last night?

Do you believe EVERY QUALIFYING STUDENT should have access to TUITION-FREE 4 year college? HRH doesn't.

Do you believe your fellow citizens deserve a $15 minimum wage so they don't have to work 4 minimum wage jobs to take care of their families? HRH doesn't!

Do you believe we should have 3 months paid family leave when a woman has a baby? HRH doesn't!

Do you believe Unions are important for a strong middle class? HRH doesn't (NAFTA)!

Do you believe Climate Change is the most important issue facing this country? HRH doesn't.

Do you believe marijuana should be legalized? HRH doesn't.

There's probably more PROGRESSIVE issues that HRH doesn't support and there's too many she doesn't support to make her even close to being a TRUE PROGRESSIVE.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[ecstatic]

68. And yet, if Bernie loses, you're probably going to help the GOP nominate the

next 4 Supreme court justices.

Believe it or not, I want the same things as you!

Do you know what it takes to get the things on your list accomplished? I don't think so. The first step is consistency, and unfortunately, many folks here are not consistent or reliable voters.

[in_cog_ni_to]

71. Actually, you voting for the candidate that can't and won't win the GE because the GOP

will come out in DROVES just to vote against a CLINTON, is what will elect those 4 justices. That's on you, not me.

You want the same things I do? So you're voting for the person who's against it ALL. Really?

If you never TRY to pass your agenda, it will never happen and it sure as hell won't happen if you vote for HRH, because she can't win. Millennials, men, Independents and many, many boomers will not vote for her, but the GOP sure will vote against her...so enjoy your President Trump, Cruz or Rubio. That's on you, not me.

PEACE
LOVE
LOVE

[geek tragedy]

77. Truly obnoxious, self-gratifying post littered with falsehoods.

You could not possibly be a worse representative of Bernie and his values.

Hillary--though a severely flawed figure--does have many decent, committed progressives supporting her.

I'll take one John Lewis (a Hillary supporter) over 10,000 petulant, supremely arrogant internet keyboard warriors--even if I disagree with him.

[bigtree]

81. all but two members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus he FOUNDED have endorsed Hillary

...support for Sanders isn't a litmus test of liberalism or progressiveness. At least people like John Lewis don't believe so.

[Nonhlanhla]

95. You should be ashamed of yourself

Just listen to what you're saying (and I quote): "Progressives have values, ethics and empathy for our fellow citizens...which HRH voters do not possess."

WTF?!!!

We do not posses VALUES, ETHICS, or EMPATHY?!

It is this kind of holier-than-thou attitude that makes a lot of Bernie's colleagues dislike him. But he is still far better than some of his followers, who take holier-than-thou-ness to the next level.

Shame on you for uttering such nonsense.

[ecstatic]

97. +1000.nt

[mmonk]

70. Progressivism has a history. It's easy to look up.

Today's Democratic Party does a lot of things that are not progressive but conservative including dismantling some Progressive legacy.

[Recursion]

88. A decidedly mixed one with a lot of unfortunate baggage (nt)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

76. FDR

[Bernblu]

78. TR, FDR, LBJ, RFK, and MLK.

Do you need anymore?

[Recursion]

87. Paul Wellstone, I guess (nt)