2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie made a mistake in his messaging
In the kerfuffle over which candidate is progressive or not, I think Bernie misspoke when he made a distinction between a "moderate" and a "progressive."
He basically said you can't be a moderate AND a progressive. he made it an eitehr/or choice.
I disagree. IMO this is not a binary choice in that sense. One can certainly be a progressive/liberal and be moderate in many ways. There's plenty of room on that spectrum.
I think Bernie should not have made that distinction. And I will not criticize Clinton for describing herself a "moderate."
But (and you knew there had to be a "but" there is a distinction between a "centrist" and a "moderate." A centrist is a code word for corporate conservationism.
For example, the push for "free trade" is centrist, as a corporate giveaway at the expense of American workers. That is not moderate liberal or progressive. It is conservative.
That's distinction I think Bernie should make.
Nanjeanne
(4,960 posts)She could say she is a moderate on some things and a progressive on others. But to change according to who she is talking to is why it's hard to know what she really stands for.
That's the distinction he should make.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Both will be equally constrained by the real enemy and that is real "conservatives." And both will need real Democrats to defeat "conservatives."
It's simple math.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)On the issue of guns, he is more "moderate" than Clinton (or at least the current version of Clinton, not the gun-rights Clinton of 2008).
But he is not conservative on the issue overall. He is considerably left of center. But you know that
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I mean yeah - she is soft on Wall Street, unlikely to dismantle the Surveillance State, likely to continue our policy of global belligerence, but hey Bernie is just as bad, because he's soft on Gun Control. They are both moderate pukes, so I guess the only logical thing to do is support Hilary Clinton because . . .
Bryant
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)When Hillary Clinton's hands off approach to Wall Street leads us to lurch from economic crisis to economic crisis, I'll at least be able to say that I supported someone who might have reigned them in a bit.
Bryant
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I said I disagreed with Sanders' characterization of that.
I made an honest statement of my opinion.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)NCjack
(10,279 posts)the real issues. The "rabbit hole" was the first campaign tactic invented -- when your opponent says something of little consequence, batter the hell out of it. Better for Bernie not to go there, as there is nothing to gain. The winnings are in contrasting Bernie's vision with Hillary's: we expand the middle-class or we strengthen the plutocracy. Let the pundits and the voters examine the label accuracy by themselves.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I agree that it is the "vision" that matters, and how it translates into specific actions on specific policies.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Iggy Knorr
(247 posts)Camp Weathervane makes up new positions on a daily basis.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Nearly the entire Dem base.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)angrychair
(8,700 posts)What "people" like to say is their political position is on things and where they actually fall in the political spectrum are very different things.
Words have meaning for a reason.
'moderate' and 'progressive' are mutually exclusive terms.
A moderate is a centerist, that values republican ideals as well as Democratic ones. Sometimes even votes Republican.
"The Democratic pollster Peter Brodnitz of the Benenson Strategy Group (DLC, Joel Benenson is HRC's chief strategist) conducted the inaugural "State of the Center" poll (in 2014)"..."They see both parties as overly ideological and wish politicians would compromise more. A plurality are Democrats, but they see themselves as slightly right-of-center ideologically, and one-third say they vote equally for Democrats and Republicans."
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/05/moderates-who-are-they-and-what-do-they-want/370904/
A progressive is very, very, different.
"We want decent paying jobs and benefits for workers and sustainable economic growth. We want growing businesses producing the worlds best products and services. We want an economy that works for everyone, not just the few. We want all nations to uphold universal human rights and to work together to solve common challenges.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/03/22/1761431/what-it-means-to-be-a-progressive-a-manifesto/
So, as a moderate, you would sometimes vote republican. Do you vote republican?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)zalinda
(5,621 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)who she is talking to.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)The problem with Hillary - she picks and chooses what she is based on her audience. Her message changes from one crowd to the next, one month to the next, one year to the next. She isn't consistent with anything.