2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPolitifact and WaPo: Bernie Sanders exaggerates with claim that he helped write Obamacare
Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)
As our friends at the Washington Post Fact Checker have noted, Sanders pushed hard for a more liberal version of health care reform -- the American Health Security Act of 2009, which would have implemented a national single-payer system. (Under a single-payer system, the government, rather than private health insurers, pays all medical bills, along the lines of Medicare.)
Sanders backed down after Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., used a procedural move to force a full reading of Sanders bill...
... when Sanders says he "helped write" the bill, it would be reasonable to imagine that Sanders was an integral player in the crafting of the bill over a long period of time -- an insider in the process. And thats not the reality.
Before the final bill was enacted, Sanders and his allies on the partys left flank regularly expressed frustration at the concessions they had to make during the legislative process.
"I have made it clear to the administration and Democratic leadership that my vote for the final bill is by no means guaranteed." - Bernie Sanders.
A few weeks later, Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank reported that Sanders was still undecided on supporting the primary Democratic bill. "I am talking to the Democratic leadership, trying my best to salvage some positive things in this bill, so I am not on board yet."
Our ruling
Sanders said he "helped write" the Affordable Care Act. He deserves credit for one provision of it -- worth a not-insignificant $11 billion. But overall, he was hardly an inside crafter of the bill. Until his effort was blocked by a GOP procedural move, Sanders supported a more aggressive single-payer system, and multiple news articles quoted him as being undecided about supporting the main Democratic bill until late in the process.
Sanders statement contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression. That meets our definition of Mostly False.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/18/bernie-s/fact-checking-bernie-sanders-claim-he-helped-write/
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Is an M$M group that is scared of Bernie and the people.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)We wavered between Two and Three Pinocchios. Sanders makes it sound as if he would tack on some additional provisions or coverage to ACA when, in reality, his new single-payer health system would replace the ACA and all other existing federal coverage. He employs political wordsmithing by calling the criticism of his bill old-fashioned political gimmickry.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/23/bernie-sanderss-claim-that-he-would-expand-not-dismantle-the-affordable-care-act/
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)At Least Bernie wants progress. We may not get it, but is sure beats being told NO.
WAPO never did like any Democrat plans, but they sure loved barking about republican's voting to exterminate Obamacare.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Funny in that the only attack you have left is a M$M nit picking.
Goes to show Bernie is making people nervous because he is so good, and he won a huge moral victory in Iowa.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)But you continue to show that you and the M$M have nothing but false accusations and a personal bias, proving there is no substantial argument against Bernie's campaign.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)The nasty tone of their recent smiling editorial makes it clear that they want to skunk Bernie.
Mr. Bezos does not like politicians standing up for workers. He'd rather be able to continue to abuse them.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)or perhaps to Clinton Corp. (TM)
Metric System
(6,048 posts)establishment and in the tank for corporations and the wealthy.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I know your remarks are bullshit, but at least you are expressing some reality instead of pure bullshit.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)on what facts are you basing your doubt/disagreement ... besides, of course, that the media/establishment is scared of Bernie and the people? (which isn't a fact)
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)He was a senator when the bill came around.
He voted for Obama care as a senator.
Unlike any of us, he did help.
It's so simple I find that anyone questioning the idea to just be looking for worms and finding one crawling from their own mouth; like politicrrp has.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Joe "Public Option Killer" Lieberman was a Senator that voted for ObamaCare.
And, I would say, based on your criteria, he has an equal, or greater, though negative, claim to authorship, as Bernie.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He withheld his vote and used it as leverage to push for funding for free community clinics.
That was an important part of writing the final bill.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/politifact-fails-again-destroy-277552195924
Oh...and there's this:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-role-in-the-affordable-care-act
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)At the very least, why would Sanders decline to throw his support behind a bill until near the end if he helped craft it?
Silly argument Sanders followers are making.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)"...he sat on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (or HELP) Committee -- one of the two committees charged with pulling together the legislation. And he championed not-insignificant provisions like expanded funding for community health centers and providing an option for states to experiment with their own systems.
On the other hand, his relentless push for the single-payer model made passing the bill more complicated, some staffers working on the legislation at the time told TPM, and to say he was behind the core elements -- the exchanges, mandates, and the Medicaid expansion --- would be an exaggeration.
At the end of the day, vetting his claim depends on your definition of write.
Was he involved in the creation? He was deeply involved in a variety of ways. He got some important things in there, said John McDonough, a Harvard public health professor who wrote the 2011 book "Inside National Health Reform."
If you take it more narrowly, were his staff people in the room writing what the exchange provisions looked like and so forth? The answer to that is, in a stricter sense, no. So its subject to interpretation and not worth contesting, because he was highly involved in it and was part of the creation process, McDonough told TPM.
If there was an inner circle of the senators and staff writing the core pieces of the legislation, Sanders was in the next level out.
For somebody who is not in the inner, inner circle involved in the structuring or the minute drafting, he was about as active and engaged as any member of the Senate,
Still, some former staffers involved in crafting the ACA dismissed the credit Sanders is trying to take now.
He played a very, very small part in the Affordable Care Act, said another former Democratic aide. He was mostly a gadfly in negotiations. He was very difficult to deal with.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Was he involved in the creation? He was deeply involved in a variety of ways. He got some important things in there, said John McDonough, a Harvard public health professor who wrote the 2011 book "Inside National Health Reform."
<snip>
Former Sen. Jeff Bingaman (NM) was the one Democrat who sat on both committees working on the ACA at the time. He was also a member of Baucus' Gang of Six.
As a regular member of the committee on the Democratic side -- we were the ones who were writing the bill because Republicans were opposing everything, Bingaman told TPM last week. So was very much involved like the rest of us.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)"...he sat on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (or HELP) Committee -- one of the two committees charged with pulling together the legislation. And he championed not-insignificant provisions like expanded funding for community health centers and providing an option for states to experiment with their own systems.
On the other hand, his relentless push for the single-payer model made passing the bill more complicated, some staffers working on the legislation at the time told TPM, and to say he was behind the core elements -- the exchanges, mandates, and the Medicaid expansion --- would be an exaggeration.
At the end of the day, vetting his claim depends on your definition of write.
Was he involved in the creation? He was deeply involved in a variety of ways. He got some important things in there, said John McDonough, a Harvard public health professor who wrote the 2011 book "Inside National Health Reform."
If you take it more narrowly, were his staff people in the room writing what the exchange provisions looked like and so forth? The answer to that is, in a stricter sense, no. So its subject to interpretation and not worth contesting, because he was highly involved in it and was part of the creation process, McDonough told TPM.
If there was an inner circle of the senators and staff writing the core pieces of the legislation, Sanders was in the next level out.
For somebody who is not in the inner, inner circle involved in the structuring or the minute drafting, he was about as active and engaged as any member of the Senate,
Still, some former staffers involved in crafting the ACA dismissed the credit Sanders is trying to take now.
He played a very, very small part in the Affordable Care Act, said another former Democratic aide. He was mostly a gadfly in negotiations. He was very difficult to deal with.
Gothmog
(145,488 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)and still does. No duh.
Also, even politifact has to admit: "He deserves credit for one provision of it -- worth a not-insignificant $11 billion"
If this ^ is not "helping to write" it, I don't know what is. What are they smoking at Politifact these daze?
ejbr
(5,856 posts)the actual stenographer, then it is mostly false.
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)By pushing hard for certain provisions, Bernie was definitely helping to shape the final bill even as concessions had to be made. I'd say that means he helped the ACA become the law we know today. But did he draft the actual text? Apparently not. And I guess that's what naysayser and critics are going to hold on to: the black-n-white definition of "write."
Anyways, I thought Congressional staffers wrote the actual text of a bill. At least, that's my familiarity with how it works at the state level: they monitor bills, analyse and research bills, draft the verbiage, etc.
======================
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)He's still trusted by far more Americans.
elias7
(4,026 posts)"Still, when Sanders says he "helped write" the bill, it would be reasonable to imagine that Sanders was an integral player in the crafting of the bill over a long period of time -- an insider in the process. And thats not the reality."
If he said he was one of the principal authors of the bill, that assumption would be reasonable. As it stands, his statement is absolutely true...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that you largely oppose (because it doesn't go far enough); but, it gets through the committee despite your opposition ... how do you, then, get to claim authorship?
elias7
(4,026 posts)Would you get to claim that you helped write it? Or must you have edited the textbook, or written 5 or more chapters?
TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)Just curious. Bill Clinton deserves a hell of a lot more credit for that one than Bernie Sanders.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)While President Bill Clinton signed The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 that opened the wall street casino and nearly brought do the global economy ... the question remains, did Bernie vote for it, or did he not?
This is a lot like Bernie's (fans) holding HRC responsible (via her husband) for the mass incarceration of Black people, because of his signing the Omnibus Crime Bill; but, neglect to mention, and hold Bernie blameless, despite his voting FOR the bill.
Strange times we live in.
TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)Hillary takes zero credit for anything in the Clinton administration? I've seen her do the exact opposite on a lot of occasions. Bill even said while running in 1992 that it was "two for the price of one." She was the most politically involved First Lady in the history of the country.
The bottom line though is that the bill was tucked by Clinton administration people into an omnibus package to prevent a government shutdown. Blackmail by the bankster-owned advisers of Bill Clinton.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)We, both, know that there a some straw man being built.
Or, one can say, the bottom line is "excuses" and "explanations".
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Yes, Bernie was very involved with the drafting of the ACA
Without Bernie there wouldn't have been 11 billion in the ACA CHCs. He made his vote for it contingent on that. And yes, he fought for single payer and the public option. The following is from the pro Hillary TPM.
ut interviews with various congressional staff involved with the reform effort as well as outside experts reveal that Sanders' role in the creation of 2010's Affordable Care Act is a complicated one.
On one hand, he sat on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (or HELP) Committee -- one of the two committees charged with pulling together the legislation. And he championed not-insignificant provisions like expanded funding for community health centers and providing an option for states to experiment with their own systems.
On the other hand, his relentless push for the single-payer model made passing the bill more complicated, some staffers working on the legislation at the time told TPM, and to say he was behind the core elements -- the exchanges, mandates, and the Medicaid expansion --- would be an exaggeration.
At the end of the day, vetting his claim depends on your definition of write.
Was he involved in the creation? He was deeply involved in a variety of ways. He got some important things in there, said John McDonough, a Harvard public health professor who wrote the 2011 book "Inside National Health Reform."
<snip>
Former Sen. Jeff Bingaman (NM) was the one Democrat who sat on both committees working on the ACA at the time. He was also a member of Baucus' Gang of Six.
As a regular member of the committee on the Democratic side -- we were the ones who were writing the bill because Republicans were opposing everything, Bingaman told TPM last week. So was very much involved like the rest of us.
Bingaman remembered specifically Sanders community health center provision, but said that he was a strong advocate for other parts of it, too."
Legislative staffers on the HELP Committee from that time contend that Sanders various contributions were meaningful ones.
I think it is an absolutely fair claim for him to make, said one former Democratic aide. I would say, unequivocally, he was very involved in putting his mark on the bill.
<snip>
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-role-in-the-affordable-care-act
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)"...he sat on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (or HELP) Committee -- one of the two committees charged with pulling together the legislation. And he championed not-insignificant provisions like expanded funding for community health centers and providing an option for states to experiment with their own systems.
On the other hand, his relentless push for the single-payer model made passing the bill more complicated, some staffers working on the legislation at the time told TPM, and to say he was behind the core elements -- the exchanges, mandates, and the Medicaid expansion --- would be an exaggeration.
At the end of the day, vetting his claim depends on your definition of write.
Was he involved in the creation? He was deeply involved in a variety of ways. He got some important things in there, said John McDonough, a Harvard public health professor who wrote the 2011 book "Inside National Health Reform."
If you take it more narrowly, were his staff people in the room writing what the exchange provisions looked like and so forth? The answer to that is, in a stricter sense, no. So its subject to interpretation and not worth contesting, because he was highly involved in it and was part of the creation process, McDonough told TPM.
If there was an inner circle of the senators and staff writing the core pieces of the legislation, Sanders was in the next level out.
For somebody who is not in the inner, inner circle involved in the structuring or the minute drafting, he was about as active and engaged as any member of the Senate,
Still, some former staffers involved in crafting the ACA dismissed the credit Sanders is trying to take now.
He played a very, very small part in the Affordable Care Act, said another former Democratic aide. He was mostly a gadfly in negotiations. He was very difficult to deal with.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Something closer to single payer?
Thank you Politifact!!
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)SMH
bowens43
(16,064 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Dems2002
(509 posts)Since I followed this closely at the time and desperately wanted them to include the public option, or medicare buy-in, both of which got screwed, I know that the most significant and progressive thing added to obamacare was the money for community clinics. Which is credited to Sanders. And when Sanders said he helped write Obamacare, this is what I immediately thought about.
Not sure he'd want to be given credit for the other crap, like no Medicare buy in, (killed by good ol lieberman), the give aways to the the pharmaceutical industries, and enshrining health insurance as a profit making business.
So even as the media is desperately trying to frame sanders as a liar/exaggerator to push back against his strength as a truth teller, he still ends up looking good for getting credit for a piece of the legislation that is the least controversial and most well liked. Imagine if he'd been given the opportunity to do more!
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Taken as a whole he had very little to do with it. Some contend he was even a hindrance. He wouldn't even commit to vote for it until late in the game.
Amazing that he later called it a Republican bill and now he wants to take credit for it.
Dems2002
(509 posts)I don't get mealy mouthed dems who don't understand that not commiting to vote for something is how one gets shit you want included.
Yes, the corporate dems led by Baucus considered him a hindrance...a hindrance to further selling out the average American. Did you even read TPM's summary? Everything he fought for was to make it better for the average American to afford and get access.
wyldwolf
(43,869 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)dsc
(52,166 posts)now defending them. I will be consistent. Bernie helped write the bill is more true than they are giving him credit for though I think not 100 percent true.
Nanjeanne
(4,974 posts)that seems to be the basis for this argument. Sort of like depends on what your definition of "is" is.
We have an actual name of someone detailing that his involvement was significant. Then we have some "anonymous" staffer saying otherwise. Gee . . . nothing funny about that is there?
No he didn't actually WRITE the bill. He just sat on the committee to iron out the details - pushed for $11 billion to fund health clinics across the country. By Politifact's criteria - President Obama and the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries are the ones who WROTE the bill.