History Lesson For a Young Sanders Supporter

[riversedge]

Good article and worth the time to read and learn. IMHO

THE BLOG
History Lesson For a Young Sanders Supporter

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-bordo-/history-lesson-for-a-youn_b_9168076.html
02/05/2016 06:10 pm ET | Updated 2 days ago

Susan Bordo
Author



I am one of those "over 65" women who belong to the faceless, aging "demographic" with a Hillary sign on my front lawn. For weeks I've listened, fists clenched, while 19-year-olds and media pundits alike lavish praise on Bernie Sanders for his bold, revolutionary message and scorn Hillary for being "establishment."

He is "heart" and she is "head"--a bitter irony for those of us familiar with the long history of philosophical, religious, and medical diatribes disqualifying women from leadership positions on the basis of our less-disciplined emotions.

He is "authentic" in his progressivism while she has only been pushed to the left by political expediency--as though a lifetime of fighting for universal healthcare, for gender equality, for children's rights don't pass the litmus tests for "progressive" causes. He is the champion of the working class while her long-standing commitments to child care, paid sick leave, the repeal of the Hyde Amendment, and narrowing the wage-gap between working men and women are apparently evaporated by her accepting highly-paid invitations to speak at Goldman-Sachs.

As I witness Sanders become the gatekeeper of progressivism,.............................

So it's somewhat déjà vu for me all over again, as a charismatic male politico once again is telling women what issues are and aren't "progressive." I can only assume that those of you who booed Hillary at the Iowa caucus when she described herself as a progressive have no idea of either how the women's movement was born or Clinton's contributions to it. Ironically, the women's movement, along the struggle for racial justice, is one of the true revolutions of the 20th century--a revolution that you benefit from every day of your lives, and that is far from fully accomplished.

The boo-ers have no idea, I can only assume, of the price Hillary has paid for being openly and vigorously feminist, for daring to fight for health care (yes, it was called "Hillarycare" in those days) before there was a movement to clap for her, for speaking her mind about what she accurately described as "a vast right-wing conspiracy" aimed at her husband (and now at Obama.) Instead, through some perverse and unconscious collusion between the decades-old Hillary-hating of the right, the headline-hunger of the media (which never tires of exploiting the latest faux scandal) and now, cruelest cut of all, the Bernie Movement, you have decided that she is simply "the establishment."

I was born in 1947, the very first year of the post-war baby boom. I was a young teenager at the dawn of the sixties, just a few years younger than Bernie and half a year older than Hillary. I know how intoxicating it is--particularly now, for a generation numbed by a culture that has given you snapchat in place of community--to feel yourself on the side of "revolution" and to find yourself, shoulder to shoulder with like-minded others, with a cause to fight for. And I, too, am charmed by Bernie's scruffy white hair and unmodulated passion. I understand, I do. Do not make the mistake of thinking, though, that Hilary's caution is a sign of her "inauthenticity" or conventionality, rather than the price she has paid for attempting to be an effective public servant in world that has allowed men the privilege of political passion and labeled women "strident" and "shrill" when they did the same. Please remember, too, that while a "clear message" may make for a good political campaign, complexity--which doesn't lend itself to sound bites--is what the real is made of. In that complex real world, income inequality is not merely the product of Wall Street greed but survives only through the happy collusion of other inequalities that have been with us long before Goldman Sachs opened its doors.

Susan Bordo is Singletary Chair in the Humanities at University of Kentucky.

[Iliyah]

1. K & R

[Wilms]

2. Check out this logic.

So it's somewhat déjà vu for me all over again, as a charismatic male politico once again is telling women what issues are and aren't "progressive."

I guess Bernie should only speak before men.

[jeff47]

5. My favorite is the part where she attacks Clinton's words.

He is "heart" and she is "head"--a bitter irony for those of us familiar with the long history of philosophical, religious, and medical diatribes disqualifying women from leadership positions on the basis of our less-disciplined emotions.

It wasn't Sanders who brought this argument to the campaign.

[Armstead]

20. I was about to say the same thing...I hate that heart and head crap

[Enthusiast]

115. It's pure bullshit.

[NCTraveler]

8. Maybe...

If Sanders is ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT,
He knows his supporters are ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT,
He shouldn't call one of women's greatest partners in the fight for rights ESTABLISHMENT.

He is against the establishment. He fully knows his supporters are against the establishment. Did he really call PP a part of the establishment? This one is beyond simply and PP was attacked relentlessly after Sanders gave his supporters the green light.

[Wilms]

15. He did not call her establishment because she's a feminist.

And he called the PP board establishment, not it's membership or mission. Did you really not know that? Did you not know that the PP chair's daughter works for HRC?

Please.

Viewing yourself as not establishment because you think of yourself as a feminist doesn't cut it. Thatcher was a feminist.

[Kelvin Mace]

29. I have repeatedly said that if elected,

HRC will be our Margaret Thatcher.

[retrowire]

43. Bingo!

It's not because Hillary's a woman.

Oh Hillary supporters either really don't get the establishment comment or they are twisting it.

[bravenak]

67. Or?

Men should stop telling women which causes are progressive and which aren't. Since it seems as if they give themselves the benefit of doubt but do not extend those same benefits of doubt to women.

[mhatrw]

99. Exactly. What are men thinking when they express their political opinions in front of women?

I mean, according to Gloria Steinem, unless women are past menopause, male proffered political opinions are simply irresistible to them.

[bravenak]

106. Mmm hmmm

[Wilms]

108. I hear Bernie talking about what he thinks.

And I see a lot of men and women who agree.

[bravenak]

109. He is not the arbiter of progressivism.

[Wilms]

116. OK. I hear Bernie talking about what he thinks.

[bravenak]

125. He is not always right.

[cali]

3. To Hell with that condescending crap

And these idiots should stop with the pretense that all his supporters are kids.

[riversedge]

31. I suspect even older voters for Sanders need to learn some history

Huffington Post Blog ‏@HuffPostBlog Feb 6

What young voters don't understand about @HillaryClinton http://huff.to/1T3Lkgc

[cali]

40. I suspect my grasp of U.S. political history is quite good

compared to Hillary supporters. But thanks for more uninformed condescension.

[riversedge]

49. Great. I did not say -you.

[Dawgs]

41. The only thing I need to understand as an older Sanders supporter is her judgement.

Trusting and believing W and Cheney was enough for me.

[Bjornsdotter]

151. Same here!

The one good thing about being an older voter is that you have lived through what others call history,

Bernie all the way!

[Warren DeMontague]

57. "need to learn some history"

[Carolina]

154. Bingo

[AikenYankee]

37. Exactly! I'm 69 years old ....

been involved in a number of progressive causes going back to the 60's and I'll be voting for Bernie!! His supporters are not only kids!

[CajunBlazer]

47. It appears that if an OP isn't pro Sanders it is labled "manure"

Regardless of how valid its points, anything remotely anti-Sanders is dismissed as if it never existed. Why is that? Is it because people are lazy and don't want to make the effort to refute points that they believe are not valid? Is it because they don't have good counter arguments? Or is it because they don't want to deal reality at all? Maybe there is yet another reason which is not ready apparent.

Whatever the reason, it is difficult to have a decent discussion of the issues on DU-P, and that's the prime reason for this board. That's kind of sad.

But know this, when someone dismisses seemingly valid points out of hand, others will come to the conclusion that real reason is those points weren't contested is because they are valid and couldn't effectively countered.

[cali]

59. Not at all.

Hey, what do you think of your candidate cheerleading for for profit colleges?

[CajunBlazer]

83. And what do you think of your cadidate being a hypocrite?

Seems that ole Bernie has been hob knobing with the the country's biggest corporations in hopes of picking up campaign money:

Breakfasting with oligarchs

Don't try to change the subject when you are uncomfortable answering a post directly. Two can play at that game cali.

Now what do you have to say about my post that you obviously avoided answering.

[hedda_foil]

101. Oh for the love of.FDR... He helped raise funds for the DSCC at their caucus retreats.

This new attack is just too disingenuous and dishonest for words.

I assume you are aware that funds raised for the DSCC goes directly to the DSCC, which is an official Democratic Party organization. The DSCC disburses funds to specific Senate races as they see fit. Bernie was being a good member of the caucus, helping get Democratic Senators elected by helping raise funding for them, not for himself, and doing it at official Democratic Senatorial retreats.

[MrMickeysMom]

117. But, it isn't, so maybe your eyes should be checked...

... because the difference between somebody who became aware of the women's movement and civil rights in the 60's and someone who once aware, continued that awareness is the DIFFERENCE between choosing Clinton or Sanders.

Who held those values? Bernie Sanders did. If you can't see this, you need to pay a bit more attention to what he has said all these years in office and how essential it was to walk the walk. Look, for example, who has aligned their rise to political office through corporatism. Look at who not only believes making tough choices, but coming up with better decisions about tough choices.

We would NEVER have gone into Iraq, nor would we have re-introduced legislation that transferred ALL THAT WEALTH to the upper 1/10th of 1%!

Now, who isn't dealing in reality here?

[artislife]

4. "to read and learn"

We don't mind learning, we mind being told how we should learn and what we should glean from all this learning.

On the edge of being preachy. Not over the line but pretty close.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. The Creation of Ann Boleyn is such a great book

Just sayin'...

[kath]

7. More bullshit. And this has been posted at least once or god-knows-how-many times already.

[boston bean]

9. Excellent. Something no feminist could disagree with!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

81. I worked on the ERA. I disagree with it.

[Fumesucker]

10. Did she take the onion off her belt before she wrote that?

[bunnies]

11. Again with this shit?

Keep scolding. Its worked so well thus far.

[AtomicKitten]

12. What part of "DON'T TELL US HOW TO VOTE" from millennials don't you understand?

[HooptieWagon]

23. + a million

The 65 year old author probably owns their home, had a good career, and isn't saddled with college dept. Completely tone-deaf to the concerns of millenials. Sanders has about 85% of the millenial vote, it appears Clinton and her haranguing surrogates are trying to make it 100%.

[CajunBlazer]

28. So the millenials are attracted to Bernie by the freebees?

I understand the younger set is staying single longer and some are not marrying at all. Maybe when these kids are a little older, but still in excellent health, they won't be some enthralled with medicare for all when they are paying very high taxes to support the program, but they don't have much need for it themselves. Maybe they won't care much for the program which provides free college educations for younger people when then the money being used to pay for it is coming directly out of their pockets, but it isn't benefiting them at all.

In other words when they become responsible and understand that freebees aren't really free they may have second thoughts about Bernie's proposed programs.

But they are currently safe in their votes for Sanders because there will be no consequences for their actions. They will never have to pay for Bernie's programs because those programs will never be implemented, even if by some miracle Bernie is elected President.

[HooptieWagon]

33. By the broken system that funnels all the wealth to the oligarchy,...

And leaves 99% of the country behind.

[CajunBlazer]

61. Do you think all of the money will come from milking the rich

Bernie himself says that he would have to tax the middle class to pay for everything. Do you think that those who are not using he health care system much are going to enjoy paying for everyone else. Do you think that those who are not getting free college education are going to enjoy paying for the kids that do, especially if some of those kids are more interested in partying then getting an education.

And remember, the rich don't have to live here. In a age were any point in the world is less than a day's travel, people, especially rich people are very mobile. There are plenty of countries which would love to have them and their money without taxing the hell out of them. Those countries would not only become havens for money of the rich, but also for the rich themselves.

The corporations that the rich own are now selling more goods around the world than they sell in this country. They are no longer US corporations, they are international corporations. Tax them too harshly and they will pull up stakes and move their headquarters to counties with more favorable tax systems. We would lose not only the taxes they pay now, but also their corporate jobs.

Life is hell when dreams run headlong into harsh reality.

[HooptieWagon]

69. I am down with Sanders platform to help Main St, you are down with Clinton's plan to help Wall St

We'll see how it shakes out. Clinton doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning the GE...I hope Trump works out well for you. Ciao.

[CajunBlazer]

89. No, I'm a progressive just like you; the difference is you deal with dreams...

...l deal with reality as I find it. I noticed that instead of answering the points I made, you decided instead to insult me. There is a reason for that. Isn't it be because you can't deal with logical arguments with counters of your own so you insulted me to deflect?

[mhatrw]

100. The reality is that enough is enough. Wealth inequality has gone too far and is now destroying the

USA.

[Enthusiast]

131. Huge +1!

[CajunBlazer]

158. Is that all you've got?

I present what I believe to be rational arguments as to why Bernie's two major "revolutionary" programs and you ignore those issues completely and repeat Bernie's signature line? Is that the best you can do?

That's sad.

[mhatrw]

161. Welcome to the rule of the 99.9%. nt

[Beowulf]

113. You may call yourself progressive

But your talking points are pure GOP. A read of the recent UMASS report commissioned by CNNMoney refutes your points.

[CajunBlazer]

157. I shouldn't have to repeat this again....

... it indigenous when you cannot present rational counter points to arguments made by someone else against your opponent to deflect by insulting that person. I am not going to get down in the dirt with you in a name calling contest. It must be difficult to be unable to adequately defend your candidate.

[Beowulf]

162. Did you read my post?

I called you no names. I pointed out your talking points about the young are pure GOP talking points - youth just want free stuff, they aren't willing to work for it, mooching off their hard-working parents - Ronald Reagan couldn't have said it better than you did. Then I pointed you to an independent study of Bernie's proposals commissioned by CNNMoney. There's no deflection. I addressed your points directly. I MIGHT concede your argument is logical, but it's based on faulty premises about young adults and the true economic impact of Bernie's proposals. And these aren't radical proposals. Universal health insurance, free public higher education, these are things most people in the EU have. Not just Sweden and Denmark, but also the U.K., Germany, Poland, Italy, and so on. I can quite adequately defend Bernie's ideas, thank you, and I can do it without beginning with faulty premises. It seems if someone disagrees with you, you consider them illogical and insulting.

[Enthusiast]

127. Reining in the abuses on Wall Street is a dream? Maybe to some. Funny it wasn't a dream after

the Savings and Loan debacle in the 1980s.

[CajunBlazer]

160. Pay attention! I wasn't talking in this thread about reining in Wall Street

I was pointing out reasons why Bernie's two major proposals - Medicare for all and free college is not going to work even if, by some miracle Bernie is allow to implement them.

Or maybe you were paying attention, felt you were not on firm ground, and was trying to change the subject.

[stevenleser]

141. And of course they attack you for calling yourself a progressive. So predictable. nt

[Go Vols]

52. My millennial son isn't

looking for any handouts,he just paid off his first house last year.He supports Bernie because he speaks truth and quite a bit because he supports Unions.

[CajunBlazer]

65. And don't you wish that most of the kids were like him

but they unfortunately they aren't. Like it or not, most people look out for their selfish self interests.

[pangaia]

91. '.... most people look out for their selfish self interests. "

Don't be so sure....about those 'kids.'

[CajunBlazer]

97. I may not know kids, but I know people, and kids are people

Sure there are going to be young idealists who think of others first and they are usually very enthusiastic. But it helps if you offer them freebees. And there weren't enough of them in Iowa to push Bernie over the top because they didn't turn out in the numbers Bernie expected.

[jeff47]

27. Go easy on them. They're not used to being anything but the most important demographic. (nt)

[beam me up scottie]

146. ^^^THIS TOO^^^

[whatchamacallit]

13. Learn what?

Older woman identifies with female candidate from her generation and is pissed younger women don't?

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. She would be more pissed to find out my 71-year-old mother

who is her"elder" and an accomplished businesswoman does not identify with her either. She will hold her nose and vote because that's what Dems do, but she is no fan.

[Dawgs]

44. My 73 year old mom agrees with yours.

[BlueMTexpat]

14. K and R, riversedge!

Based on some cranky responses in this thread, closed minds abound! But thanks anyway!

[beam me up scottie]

16. More condescending tripe directed at millenial women.

Keep insulting their intelligence Hillary supporters, then wonder why they dont support your candidate.

[Go Vols]

55. yep,more on that bandwagon

“Shame on Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright for implying that we as women should be voting for a candidate based solely on gender,” Zoe Trimboli, a 23-year-old from Vermont who supports Mr. Sanders and describes herself as a feminist, wrote on Facebook. “I can tell you that shaming me and essentially calling me misinformed and stupid is NOT the way to win my vote.”

With backlash growing, Ms. Steinem issued a retraction on Sunday morning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/us/politics/gloria-steinem-madeleine-albright-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders.html?_r=0

[Enthusiast]

136. I see it the same way you do.

[casperthegm]

17. That's nice. But it doesn't excuse her poor record compared to Sanders

If you really believe Clinton is the better candidate based on the issues, feel free to take on the issues listed below and tell me how, in your unbiased view, see her as a better candidate. Because I just don't see it...

Keystone; Bernie against it from the start. Hillary waited until Obama made his decision to take a position.
Wall Street money; I think we know the deal here. And if it doesn't matter to you then...
Glass Steagall; Sanders is for it. Hillary has told the banks to "cut it out."
The war in Iraq; Sanders opposed it, foreseeing that it would destabilize the region, which it did. Hillary voted for it.
Syria no-fly zone; Sanders opposes it. Hillary favors it. Wonder what happens the first time Russian jets break it...
Classified email investigation; Sorry, this is a real issue. I can't imagine having to worry about this in the general election.
Marriage for gay couples; Sanders supports way before Hillary. She completely flopped, per politifact.
Citizens United; I think Clinton is in favor of reform. But her actions don't back it. Bernie's do.

And that's not even touching on the authenticity. I'm not sure how Clinton fans feel there is a leg to stand on there, but I'll leave that alone, as the issues are more than enough to carry this argument.

[uponit7771]

18. "As I witness Sanders become the gatekeeper of progressivism"

[whatchamacallit]

22. Maybe if democrats like Hillary weren't always throwing open the gates to the corporate barbarians

this lady wouldn't have to endure the indignation of Bernie's ownage.

[uponit7771]

24. Or maybe Sanders can put down the stones and stop throwing them at progressives of all...

... kinds of imperfections seeing he has a number of his own?

What's it?

Judge, lest ye be judged?

[mhatrw]

104. Stones? All he has said is that he is against business as usual politics and Clinton is

business as usual politician. Which she most certainly is.

[uponit7771]

159. ummmmm, no.... no... there's more there... facts are important

[jillan]

19. Oh cry me a river! I am 60. I was an activist in the 70s for gender equility.

So DO NOT lecture me on which candidate is more progressive. DO NOT tell women how to vote.

The whole purpose of the women's movement was to be treated equally.

We will have a woman in the White House one day when we have a woman that the majority of people BOTH MALE AND FEMALE have a candidate they want to vote for regardless of her genetics.

[Nanjeanne]

25. Why is it hard for Clinton supporters to grasp that some people just prefer Sanders

I am "over 65" woman. I do not feeling faceless. I don't have to clench my fists when Sanders is praised.

I am not supporting him because he is "authentic". I am supporting him because he is consistent in his values, his policy plans are the ones that I support and he speaks to me about what I think is important for the future of our country. He walks the walk and that makes him "authentic".

He is not the gatekeeper of progressivism. I AM. I stand at the gate of my own decision on who and what is progressive.

I am not voting for Sanders because he is a "charismatic male politico" telling women what issues are and aren't "progressive". I cannot think of a more condescending thing to say about someone. It is as offensive to read that statement to me, a 66 year old woman, as I imagine it would be to a 24 year old.

I don't need to be lectured about women's rights. I was long a member, a protestor, and someone who marched for women's rights, civil rights, LGBT rights. I can't speak to those who boo'ed Hillary but if this person is talking about the boos she received during the debate - they came because of her "artful smears" comment. And that comment struck a chord with people in the audience. What that has to do with feminism I have no idea.

I was born in 1950. Yes the 60s were intoxicating. You know why? Because we felt we had the power to change things. And you know what - many of us did. We marched for an end to the Vietnam War. And we were empowered. Some of us took part in demonstrations after Stonewall riots. And you know what - we made a difference. We marched on Washington and our voices were heard. We converged on Washington to protest the Kent State shootings and President Richard Nixon's incursion into Cambodia and our voices were heard. We marched for Equal Rights for Women and our voices were heard. Perhaps the younger generation want to participate the way we did - and have their voices heard too?

I am not supporting Bernie because I'm charmed by his scruffy white hair. That's an incredibly patronizing thing to say and I imagine it is to a 24 year old as well. Am I charmed by his unmodulated passion? Not charmed. But excited by. Inspired by. I have a feeling 24 year olds might be as well.

I do not mistake Hillary's caution as a sign of "inauthenticity". I take her ever-changing stances on policies as a sign of inauthenticity. I don't label her "strident" and "shrill" as a way to demean her because she is a woman. Is Bernie being called "strident" and "shrill" as a way to demean him as a man?

Please do understand that 66 year old Bernie supporters and 24 year old Bernie supporters can tell the difference between a "clear message" and the complexity of governing. Please don't tell us that we shouldn't vote for Hillary JUST because she is a woman and then write a long discourse pretty much telling me that I should vote for her because she is a woman.

Please do not talk down to me - as a 66 year old woman or a 24 year old woman -- and imply that I can't understand just how complex our political system is. I think I'm fully capable of analyzing the candidates' policy positions, their histories, their personalities and making up my own mind on who and why I will support Bernie Sanders. And, you know what? I think the 24 year olds can too.

[retrowire]

46. OP OP OP!!! Make it happen! nt

[Nanjeanne]

53. Thanks - I did Post It. On TV all day I was lectured to. Now these "letters" . . . I guess I just

had it!

[farleftlib]

51. Nanjeanne, you are amazing.

That should be an OP.

[enigmatic]

54. This should be an OP

Brilliantly written.

[beam me up scottie]

68. ^^^THIS^^^

[HooptieWagon]

70. Oh, hell yeah!

[mhatrw]

107. perfect reply. Way to school the lesson "instructor"

[Carolina]

156. This 63 year old woman agrees with you

and thanks you for saying exactly and eloquently what I was thinking.

I am appalled at the women like Not-So-Bright Albright, Gloria Steinem, Jean Shaheen, Claire McCaskill, etc. telling the rest of us how we should vote.

HRC is candidate weathervane. I am still waiting for someone to answer a very simple question: what has she done for anybody aside from herself.

She rode Bill's coat tails to power. Sure after Yale Law School, she went to DC to work on the Nixon impeachment committee, but she didn't last there long and didn't pass the DC bar. She tells the story that she went to work for the Children's Defense Fund, but isn't it interesting that neither Marian Wright Edelman, it's founder, or Peter Edelman her husband who resigned his Clinton administration post over the Welfare 'Deform' Act have spoken on her behalf.

Anyway, after a brief time in DC, she went to Arkansas... chasing Bill because she recognized HIS rising star. He had equal smarts, but more importantly, the charisma, political skills and ability to connect with people that she can only dream of.

She was Mrs. Governor and corporate lawyer for Walmart who relied heavily on law partner Vince Foster before becoming First Lady. Without her position as FLOTUS, she would never have been able to become Senator from NY from which she launched her disastrous 2008 bid for the presidency. And let us not forget how nasty she was, how the Democratic Party structure had to ask her to bow out and how gracelessly she did so on condition that the Obama people and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills... she was just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up and then expect others pay for the disaster created.

HRC talks the talk about fighting for the little people, but in the Senate, what did she do: vote for IWR, for the Patriot Act and for the bankruptcy bill.

As SOS, she left Honduras, Libya, and Syria in shambles

She is also part of the Clinton legacy: DLC, NAFTA, the telecommunications bill of 1996, welfare reform (not), and overturning Glass Steagall! She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks Robert Reuben as head of treasury and hired as a financial advisor that abominable wall streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!).

This is HRC's history, so please tell me, WTF has she done that is positive or constructive?

[Eric J in MN]

26. 'the price Hillary has paid'

Are we supposed to vote for Hillary Clinton because we feel sorry for her?

She's a millionaire who got to be First Lady of Arkansas, First Lady of the US, a US Senator, and the US Secretary of State.

[Iliyah]

30. Good read

K & R

[riversedge]

32. thank you. I thought so also.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

34. The USA is like a unyielding dinosaur living in the past

America needs a progressive society not inhibited by those who see it to their financial advantage to stall progress.

[k8conant]

36. I was born in 1949 and I am a woman...

who is disappointed that the man for whom I will vote is attacked because of his sex.

It's interesting and disingenuous of Bordo to call Bernie a "charismatic male politico" and "gatekeeper of progressivism".

Funny that I thought Bernie Sanders is just trying to do the right things right and that he has been doing that for years.

So, Hillary's "caution" is because she's been cowed and is afraid of being "strident" or "shrill"? So why doesn't she just own up to what her policies are and not worry about whether Bernie and I think they are progressive.

She can't be both moderate and progressive.

[Truprogressive85]

39. Sad

You guys really hate young voters, more specifically young women voters


Here is the simple answer : Young voters are simple not into her

you cant Dab , or nae nae into the minds of young voters minds

[m-lekktor]

42. yeah she sounds like the type who would support Hillary Clinton. nt

[retrowire]

45. The entirety of that rant can be compressed to the following.

"Leave Hillary alone. Don't tell me what progressive values are because you have no idea what Hillary did for feminism and Women's Rights."

No doubt in my Bernie supporting mind that Hillary is a FIERCE champion for Women's Rights. God, I do admire her for that, no doubt.

But regarding everything else that she's done? Inconsistent.

So this rant which was supposed to be a history lesson of some sort for my millennial ass fell short of doing so. Hillary is an advocate for women's rights and has fought for healthcare. (though she's flip flopped on universal healthcare maybe twice during this very race.)

This changes not one iota.

[farleftlib]

48. Pro Iraq War, pro cluster bombs, "We came, we saw, he died. cackle."

There's some recent history that needs to be remembered.

[beam me up scottie]

50. When is Hillary going to tell her supporters to stop attacking other women?

[R B Garr]

64. The Berniebro is a real phenomenon documented by

numerous journalists for months now. I just saw another article about Berniebros owning the internet, so it's a well-observed and written about occurence.

Did you read the article?

[beam me up scottie]

66. The Hillary-brahs seem to be a phenomenom, when will she call them out on their sexism?

Steimem, Albright, Granholm, all encouraged to attack young women and now her supporters online are joining them.








Note to jury: "Hillary-brahs" aren't real, I'm just using the term to demonstrate how sexist the term "Berniebros" is. Thank you for serving.

[R B Garr]

71. Just what I thought. You didn't read the article.

More tactics of your random attacks on Clinton without any basis except cheap shots to even some scores.

Like it or not, the Berniebros are part of this election cycle's lexicon They are mentioned in mainstream media and on national network news. I've heard them mentioned regularly now on cable news. It's just a desperate attempt to try a phony turnabout attack by calling people Clinton brahs just to seize phony talking points as payback.

You see should read the article.

[beam me up scottie]

73. Just what I thought, more assumptions and baseless claims from you.

When will Hillary tell her supporters to stop attacking other women?

[R B Garr]

75. Reading what you wrote is not an "assumption'.

You obviously chose to try and turn around "berniebros" on Clinton with your own version of an insult.

The Berniebros are national news. That's real and not an assumption.

[beam me up scottie]

78. When will Hillary tell her supporters to stop attacking other women?

[R B Garr]

82. Sanders tells the Berniebros to knock it off.

He doesn't want the divisiveness. There are several threads about what Sanders, himself, has said to the Berniebros.

[beam me up scottie]

84. When will Hillary tell her supporters to stop attacking other women?

[R B Garr]

85. Sanders tells his supporters to stop the divisiveness.

He doesn't want the bullshit in his name. I don't blame him.

[beam me up scottie]

86. She should start here.

[R B Garr]

87. If you read the articles, you would know how the

comments arose. But you didn't read them, opting for cheap shots about Clinton supporters as payback for ACTUAL news articles condemning the Berniebro tactics.

IOW, you made a false analogy. You're welcome.

[beam me up scottie]

88. When will Hillary tell her supporters to stop attacking other women?

[R B Garr]

103. Bernie himself has asked his supporters

to stop their divisive attacks on Clinton supporters. Your cheap shot "Clintonbrahs" was just phony payback for the media using Berniebros.

If you read the origin of the comments, you could answer your own question.

[beam me up scottie]

105. Such a simple question yet you have no answer. That says it all really.

[R B Garr]

110. Someone using "Clintonbrah" and expecting to be

taken seriously is what says it all.

You were just trying to coin a new cheap shot copycat attack, but you failed to take into account the origins of Berniebro. Remember?

[beam me up scottie]

112. Someone using "Berniebro" who doesn't call out sexism against millenial women. Go figure.

Says it all, really.

I wish I could say I was surprised but alas, it's expected.

[R B Garr]

119. Bernie himself has called out the divisiveness of

the Berniebros. Its a real media attribution. "Clintonbrahs" is just cheap shot payback. I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. And then to use your self-made slur as "concern" about women...haha. No Bueno!

[beam me up scottie]

122. Why won't Hillary call out the sexism coming from her supporters?

I guess she doesn't care.

[R B Garr]

132. Someone coining "Clintonbrahs" as a payback slur

is not to be taken seriously.

[beam me up scottie]

134. Still won't call it out? What a shock!

[R B Garr]

139. Sanders has called out the Berniebris and their

tactics. Coiniing "clintonbrahs" as payback is counter-productive to his requests. I'm just trying to help.

[beam me up scottie]

143. "Berniebros" is a sexist term, but when you can't discuss issues you go with what you know I guess.

[Warren DeMontague]

92. No, it's a talking point promulgated by a campaign that is running on fumes.

[R B Garr]

95. Ha, it's been around since last year, first coined by

a journalist. A quick Google search shows you're wrong.

Now it is everywhere.

Even Sanders himself knows about the divisiveness of the Berniebros, and has asked them to stop. There are threads here about that, too.

Lastly, my comments were mostly directed at a cheap shot copycat attack on this thread about Clinton supporters.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. "first coined by a journalist" - well, I guess that makes it real. Like the "Obama Boys" before it.

http://www.salon.com/2008/04/14/obama_supporters/

Again, it's BECAUSE SHE CANT COMPETE ON THE ISSUES.

Look over there - Berniebros!

[R B Garr]

124. I guess you didn't follow the thread.

And, LOL at "the issues". That is just an exercise in MORAL AUTHORITEH" As soon as "issues" go beyond Good vs. Evil, you all claim MORAL VICTORY.

[Warren DeMontague]

128. I did. It's a made up meme from a campaign that wants to change the subject.

Hell, you haven't noticed that there has been a 6 month non-stop barrage of bs about "sanders supporters" in GDP? Even though "Sanders Supporters" aren't on the ballot?

Why? Because with a head-to-head objective analysis of the positions and records of both candidates, Bernie Sanders is generally going to win among progressives.

[R B Garr]

137. Wow, no. All talk of "issues" are Good vs. Evil and end

with a declaration of moral AUTHORITY.

Sanders HIMSELF has called out the Berniebros. It's real.

[Warren DeMontague]

140. Fresh Ground Pepper?

[R B Garr]

142. Foghorn?

[beam me up scottie]

144. I'll have the vinaigrette please!

[Warren DeMontague]

148. I love salad as much as the next berniebro, of course.

It goes great with those brofurkey sandwiches I'm always ordering my barefoot and pregnant, biblically submissive wife to make for me.

[beam me up scottie]

149. Only after she's done scrubbing your purple gingham shirts I hope.

You know how we wimmenz tend to slack off when you're not paying attention.

[Warren DeMontague]

155. Our household is so anachronistically backwards, i drive my car with my feet

Now if only that damn cat would stay out for the night. Yabba dabba doo!

[beam me up scottie]

138. It's also incredibly sexist, I am shocked to see so called liberals using it here.

But then again when you can't discuss issues you have to go with what you know best.

It's a pity.

[beam me up scottie]

126. We should turn this into a drinking game!

Berniebro!



Your turn!

[Warren DeMontague]

130. Oh, that would be all I would need.

I think it's like scratching the dog under the chin. "Say Berniebro again! Ooooh. Oooh, that's it! Right there! AHHHHHHHHHH"

[beam me up scottie]

135. LOL! I can see his leg kicking now!

?w=580&h=430

[beam me up scottie]

114. Hey a meme's a meme and since they're unable to discuss issues it's the best they can do.

Don't blame them, it's their only option.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. but "it's everywhere!"

Yeah, everywhere where Hillary supporters are trying to change the subject from the vacuous, uninspiring, inauthentic campaign their candidate is running.

[beam me up scottie]

123. Deflect, deny, derail!!! "Berniebros Berniebros Berniebros" *SQUAWK*

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Ah, more lecturing of the wayward youth from their wizened elders.

that shit's really working well for you guys, huh?

[HooptieWagon]

74. The blowback is impressive.

This tactic is not going well at all for them.

[Beacool]

58. Great article.

Thanks for posting it. I bookmarked it.

[kath]

60. A MUCH better history lesson:

http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2016/02/05/why-bernie-vs-hillary-matters-more-than-people-think/
Details what has happened to the Democratic Party since the late '70s, and why this election is so important.
Here are the last 4 paragraphs, but is worth reading the whole thing:

This can only happen if democrats recognize that Bernie Sanders is not just a slightly more left-wing fellow traveler of Clinton’s. This is not a contest to see who will lead the democrats, it’s a contest to see what kind of party the democrats are going to be in the coming decades, what ideology and what interests, causes, and issues the Democratic Party will prioritize. This makes it far more important than any other recent primary election. The last time a democratic primary was this important, it was 1976. Only this time, instead of Anybody But Carter or Anybody But Clinton, the left has Bernie Sanders–one representative candidate that it is really excited about. The chance may not come again for quite some time.

Hillary Clinton is a neoliberal building on the legacy of Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. She doesn’t understand the pivotal role inequality plays in creating economic crisis and reducing economic growth. She has been taken in by a fundamentally right wing paradigm, and if she is elected she will continue to lead the Democratic Party down that path.

Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist building on the legacy of Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson. He understands that inequality is the core structural factor in economic crisis and that growth in real wages and incomes is required for robust, sustainable economic growth.

It doesn’t matter which one is more experienced, or which one’s policies are more likely to pass congress, or which one is more likely to win a general election, or which one is a man and which one is a woman. This is not about just this election, or just the next four years. This is about whether the Democratic Party is going to care about inequality for the next decade. We are making a historical decision between two distinct ideological paradigms, not a choice between flavors of popcorn. This is important. Choose carefully.

Many thanks to Armstead, who first posted this article here last night: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511176362

[Warren DeMontague]

62. And yet in there are almost zero reasons, again, to actually support Hillary Clinton.

It's more about personal and generational complaints about things like SDS not taking womens' voices seriously enough in the 60s.

Is it any wonder that Millennial women don't relate to this stuff?

[Blue_In_AK]

63. Condescending much?

[H2O Man]

72. Interesting.

This should be a topic that we can all discuss, without the insults found from OP to thread.

I had just posted an OP on the same general topic, with an alternative view, right before first seeing this.

[jillan]

76. Go over there and read the comments.... LOL.... women are not having it.

Women telling other women how to vote..... trying to set us back to the 1970s.

[stevenleser]

77. Excellent post that will likely fall on deaf ears. nt

[Fawke Em]

79. Pish. My Mom was born in 1948 and is a Sanders supporter.

She won't vote Republican but she says she wouldn't vote for Hillary for dog catcher because she can't trust her.

And this is through no influence of mine. I don't generally talk about politics with my Mom. She just started telling me this before the Iowa caucus.

[Dustlawyer]

80. "These 19 year olds..." get off of my lawn!!!!

[Gothmog]

90. Great post

[ejbr]

93. Something is wrong with my

computer screen. All I see is "blah, blah, blah"...no other words.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. Classic example of boomersplaining condescension.

What is glaring from all these pieces is the tone-deaf self absorption that sadly plagues a generation that, to its credit, racked up many accomplishments over the years.

Like the idea that the Vietnam era is the axis and fulcrum around which the entire progressive universe should rightfully spin, while the Iraq War Vote is just a pesky footnote, to be hand-waved away like an annoying fly.

[mhatrw]

96. Is this the same Susan Bordo whose book "The Male Body" included a chapter that exonerated Bill

Clinton for taking advantage of Monica Lewinsky?

[fun n serious]

102. Personally I would have burned the dress if I were her.

[stevenleser]

121. And there is the Bernie Bros response. Dig up something from the past of someone who

praises Hillary or criticizes Bernie and attack them instead of dealing with what they actually said.

[mhatrw]

129. I don't need to deal with her haughty, vacuous self-parody.

It stands on its own "merits", and I fully endorse the effect it has had and will have on its intended audience.

[stevenleser]

133. And you continue to do it. Bernie should have stepped in and schooled his followers much earlier. nt

[mhatrw]

145. I don't "follow" Sanders. I support him over any corpocrat who shills for our oligarchs.

I am who I am. He is who he is. She is who she is. None of us are extensions of one another.

[Odin2005]

98. I am sick of this condescending horseshit.

It's more "Vote for Hillary or you are a Sexist Pig" crap.

[DrBulldog]

111. I'm surprised I was allowed to post a reply to this.

With DU being "segregrated" by its moderators . . .

Sorry, Susan. I just research the documented historical facts and follow the evidence. What's bad IS bad, what's good IS good.

[Jarqui]

147. I do think women got shafted and are still getting shafted

77% of men's pay or whatever as one example. I could go on and on and on about it.

But if men and women are truly equal, as I believe they are and should be, why does the sex of a candidate matter? Why is it even coming up? It's got nothing to do with the voting decision or at the very least, it arguably shouldn't.

If Hillary went back in time and had a sex change nobody knew about, I still wouldn't vote for her. She's not an honest candidate. I'm sick of her flip-flops and deceptions. I don't think she's a deep thinker and thinks things through. She emotionally reacts - not good when the launch codes are in the brief case beside her.

Look at her managing skills:
Hillarycare - a big fight/mess
2008 Campaign - not well run/badly run
Secretary of State - that department had all kinds of issues during her time - not well run and her performance was spotty
2016 Campaign - not well run/badly run so far

As Axelrod said in a tweet "When the exact same problems crop up in separate campaigns, with different staff, at what point do the principals say, "Hey, maybe it's US?""

And the scandals that follow her around. You could say the same thing
"When scandal after scandal crops up in different public positions, with different staff, at what point do the principals say, "Hey, maybe it's US?""

[Jean Genie]

150. The Price

The price Hillary has paid? What about the price Hillary has BEEN paid? She chose her path, and with politics comes the Hillary-hating, the name-calling, and all the other unpleasant side-effects -along with prestige, much ego-massaging, and, of course, the big bucks. She's no martyr. I'm no starry-eyed twenty-something. I'm an old lady, just like you. And as much as I'd love to support a woman candidate, I have no intention of supporting the WRONG woman candidate.

I think you insult the young people who support Bernie, with your "charmed by has scruffy white hair and unmodulated passion comment. You belittle the wisdom of youth, and imagine that the 19-year-old Bernie supporters are lock-step pseudo-revolutionaries looking to fight for a cause. You seem to assume that they react, while you, a seasoned veteran of years of female repression, are not only older, but also wiser than these youngsters.

I would not want to be a young person in this day in age. Bless them for their passion and their courage. This is a generation who probably "look forward" to not being able to have the life that their parents had. A generation in debt thanks to usurious student loan burdens; a generation which has little hope of raising their children in a world free of terrorism, war, gun violence, pollution, tainted drinking water, Monsanto-bred foods, and other iterations of corporate greed.These young people see what our generation - the Clinton generation - has done for them. Can you truly not see why support Bernie? He gives them hope. He gives us all hope!

[redstateblues]

152. Bernie's "free college" proposal is a brilliant scheme

To get the millennial vote. He knows it will never pass but it's an incredible draw. BSS would turn on him after a year of accomplishing nothing the way Puritopians turned on Obama. You have to hand it to Bernie, it is a brilliant scheme. Brilliant

[bettyellen]

153. my friend was surprised he is expected to be a lame duck....when I told her it's going to be

a good eight years before any of that happens, more likely 12-15, her jaw dropped. Congress exists. It is a problem.