2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumShocker of my day, my Republican mother is for Bernie...
For a little backstory, my mother has historically been for the Republican "brand"; certainly not a true conservative, but a reliable Republican voter. She's the typical "bitter" Caucasian voter that Obama got scolded for accurately describing, convinced her opportunities and fruits of her labor were taken from her and handed down to "moochers". Even before Reagan.
The Bush and tea party eras were enough to sour her of self-identifying as Republican, but she has still never voted for a Dem. I knew she would never in a million years vote for a Clinton, and I knew she would hate Trump, so I was very curious how she was leaning this year. I pegged her as either siding with a Republican "also ran", or, more likely, just sitting the election out.
Imagine my surprise when she announced, "I like Sanders, I think I'm voting for him."
Excuse me, come again?
Here's her process:
1. Hates Trump and is just basically done with Republicans at the moment. So annoyed with Trump she's not even willing to wade through the rest of the Republican candidates. The brand is dead to her.
2. Still despises all things Clinton.
3. So, she started to listen to and read about Sanders. "Likes him". "Believes he means what he says". Willing to register as a Democrat for the first time in her life to vote for him.
What? I even point out that he is a "Socialist". She shrugs her shoulders. The former curse word, "socialist", is now a shoulder shrug.
Mind blown.
That's it. Feel free to come at me with your "cool story, bro" responses. It was cool, completely unexpected and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this.
Enjoy your day.
Response to Barack_America (Original post)
Post removed
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)classy.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)The person the OP described sounds absolutely horrible. Moochers? That's the sort of talk bigots use. I call things as I see them.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)The fact that she is voting for Bernie over any of the Repubs who would tend to reinforce the "moocher" views tells me she has had a change of heart or seen the errors of her ways in at least a limited way.
When you demonize people like her you only polarize them and push them away. I'd prefer to have a new Democratic voter than a more polarized Repub voter.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And with that attitude you will assure nobody ever sees the light. You are hurting more than helping.
.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)My own Grandmother, age 92 is, for the first time in her life registered to vote.. at all! Her very first vote will be for a woman President. She also has some very out dated world views because she comes from a different time and place. For some background, I'm in a gay interracial marriage, and Hell, it took her years before she stopped referring to my husband as "that jigaboo" (VERY derogatory term for black people in the old language). She has come a long way since, but still... it was difficult to say the least. Luckily I'm married to the most wonderful, and understanding man on earth (imo), who also happened to have a grandmother who was.. displeased.. with our relationship and more recently our nuptials.
People can evolve, and adapt. for older people it can take more time and more persuasion. The fact that the OP's mom is that open and moving forward, regardless of who she is supporting is something that should be celebrated imo.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)?t=1m58s
Sorry, Hillary, Gay Rights Advocates Say Bernie Is Right On DOMA History
You're in a gay interracial marriage, and you're for Hillary. It's your right to choose whoever you please in the primaries, but I honestly think you're choosing the wrong candidate. Bernie has always been for gay marriage and has never backed down on that position. Hillary, on the other hand, has always been strongly against gay marriage until it became politically expedient. But that's not the only thing on why you should switch sides.
Know thy candidates.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)my mom went from bra burning liberal feminist atheist to born again right wing Southern Baptist Republican. I would have preferred it if the reverse were true.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)People can indeed change. I was just put off by the moochers line, which really rings of the worst kind of bigoted paranoia.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)I don't believe I've heard her use that term. But, yes, she has been politically frustrating my entire life. I'm very pleased she's starting to realize the real forces at play here.
stone space
(6,498 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
Mail Message
On Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:58 PM you sent an alert on the following post:
Sounds like the horrible kind of person we don't want in our party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1239545
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
Calling somebody's mother a horrible person is not cool.
Please hide.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:07 PM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Nasty thing to say about a DUers mother. Wow.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
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Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: A bit much.
Thank you.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Just the type of person who doesn't understand the cycle of poverty, believes that because she worked hard to better her situation, that opportunity is available to all.
I certainly hope the Democratic Party is open to voters now just realizing that the money has been going up, not down, and that's the problem.
cui bono
(19,926 posts).
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)we want EVERYONE voting for our candidates, whether we agree with them about everything or not. The more people who "stay with the GOP where they belong," the worse off we ALL are.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)for the same reasons. They know that he's honest, even if they don't agree with his policies, and that matters a lot!
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)say they are voting for sanders in the Primary and then changing to Republican general election.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)If they succeed and get Sanders nominated, and all the Clinton supporters vote for sanders as they said they will, we still win.
geologic
(205 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I think that hero infatuation governs in some cases. Some would rather vote for Clinton even if you prove Sanders will do better in the General, because of authoritarian infatuation.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)it was used around 2008 as well - if it was the case then it backfired, and if it is the case now.. guess what
I get a whole different sense from my Repub loyalist here in my are (& there are a lot) - Bernie is making them very nervous..
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)They are glad to have an honest candidate to vote for.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)a lover of all things Clinton since the 90s, is now a Sanders supporter.
Her process:
1. "He gets it."
2. "She doesn't," and
3. "I can't believe her anymore."
FrostyAusty
(57 posts)Lifelong dem, proud feminist, Hillary supporter in '08.. Even got in a fight with my aunt over Barack vs Hillary in '08.. Needless to say I thought for sure she was going to be for Hillary again this time around, so when I asked her at Thanksgiving earlier this year who she was supporting I was shocked.. With no hesitation in her voice at all she said "I'm voting for Bernie. I don't trust Hillary anymore and there is too much money corrupting our politics ." I was in awe... I couldn't fully believe it though, I thought maybe she was just saying that to make myself and the other grandkids happy and avoid conflict.. A month later Christmas rolls around and I'm at Grandma's lookin at the fridge when I see it... A postcard from the Bernie campaign thanking her for her donation!! Best Christmas gift Grandma could give to her grandkids.. A future we can be hopeful about!!
LWolf
(46,179 posts)looking past her to Bernie.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)so pissed off at how broken and wasteful the government is, and about working so hard and having so little to show for it, that Bernie is really resonating with them.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Her interest in Sanders is 100% born out of a perception of honesty.
Although, from a policy standpoint, I am interested in a potential shift in Boomer Republican politics now they are using more of the benefits they were once so opposed to.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)absolutely right as far as Boomer mindsets changing now that they need help. Life is very hard for seniors who don't have nest eggs to draw upo!
MisterP
(23,730 posts)and Rockefeller Republicans: he had a brand-NEW economics to Make America Great Again
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)and lower have expressed that if an establishment candidate in the Republican
party gets the nomination, they will vote for Sanders.
To what percent? I have no idea, it just surprised me how much they
don't want what their side is selling...as you say, totally unexpected.
TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)with status quo politicians who are all owned by mega money corporate interests. This can be summed up best by Jeb Bush's failure. He has more big money backing him than anyone other than Clinton.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)against them? They do not respond by saying..no, that's not true! lol They can't.
I freely admit, I have enjoyed watching the Bush legacy burn to the ground,
Jeb! blew it as soon as he conceded he could not use his last name while
campaigning.
Sucks to be a Bush even in the Republican Party.
GeoWilliam750
(2,522 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)If we can't land them with Bernie they will turn to Trump.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Republicans want Bernie Sanders to get the nomination so any clown they put up will win a 49 state victory.
It is called the "Claire McCaskill strategy"
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)However, common sense tells me that the republicans would define Bernie as a marxist communist who wants a revolution and who will tax everyone to death to give freebies to freeloaders. That is what republicans do.
Bernie will be lucky if he won Vermont with that barrage. Approximately $2 billion will be spent to demolish him and his small donors won't be able to keep pace.
Bernie is getting a free ride and people are allowing him to skate on the specifics. It won't work in the GE. He will have to tell what his tax brackets will be and what his new tax rate will be. Then he will become another Mondale.
You may find the "revolution" as a very strong phenomenon on reddit, facebook, DU and twitter but there is a whole world out there. The way the electoral college is, Bernie will have to win Ohio, Florida, North Carolina AND Virginia and that will be impossible under the barrage of "marxist commie taxing people to death for redistribution" memes.
I did wake up and smell the coffee a long time ago. Electability is the MAIN reason I am voting for Hillary. Bernie is a good man and I agree with him on most things. He. Is. Just. Not. Electable.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)The revolt is not merely among Democrats and millennials, Republicans
are experiencing something they have not seen before, different than the Tea Party.
There are differences in appeal except for one, corruption in politics...they're
unified on that front. I am not convinced they'll buy into Kasich, either.
UnBlinkingEye
(56 posts)Hillary proved she wasn't electable in 2008, she will prove it again soon. Kissinger, Iraq, Goldman Sachs...
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)They are liabilities in the "revolutionary echo chamber" only
UnBlinkingEye
(56 posts)Is in Hillary's head.
First:
Barack, Barack, Barack...
Now:
Bernie, Bernie, Bernie...
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)All of you "Hillary is more electable" apologists live in a bizarre world in which personalities have no effect on voting. For some bizarre reason, it does not matter to you that well over 50% of voters dislike Clinton, nor does it matter to you that well over 75% of voters think Clinton is untrustworthy. To you, the only thing that affect voters is where a candidate lies on some bullshit 20-year-old corporate media and conservative think tank left-right spectrum. To you, if a candidate is too far left, he or she is simply unelectable.
Taxes were once a dirty word no matter who they were applied to. But now the vast majority of Americans agrees the rich pay too far little in taxes.
Single payer healthcare was once a nonstarter, but now the vast majority of Americans knows healthcare costs are out of control and everybody feel the pain of the current system.
Keeping our military "strong" was once the number one national priority. But after Iraq, more and more people have come to realize what a complete counterproductive scam our rampant military misadventurism is.
Free trade was once all the rage. But income inequality has gotten so bad that even Thomas Friedman is afraid to go to bat for the TPP in print.
The easiest way to get voters used to be to promise to put everyone in jail and throw away the key. But the pendulum has now swung so far in the direction of a police state that putting kids in jail for pot possession scares us more than Willie Horton does.
The current political climate in nothing like it was when an establishment liberal ran against an establishment conservative 32 years ago.
Do you realize that things change? Do you understand that the pendulum swings left whenever it has gone so far right that threatens to destroy our whole demand based economy? Have you even looked the voting preferences of those under 40? Has this made any impression on you whatsoever?
To elect Sanders in a landslide, all we have to do convince a few more people over 40 what almost everybody under 40 already knows. Enough is enough!
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)"People hating her and not trusting her" is a meme that reverberates only in the aforementioned revolutionary echo chamber.
To me, she is a brilliant lawyer who has had an illustrious career. In the dash for freebies some people are maligning her and it is grossly unfair.
Would President Obama have selected her to be the SOS in his admin if she was so untrustworthy?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)How do you propose to change the hearts and minds of everybody who does not like her and finds her untrustworthy?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and play into republican hands.
Stop doing it and put your differences with Hillary in a constructive light.
Calling her corrupt and untrustworthy is just a smear. Calling her not liberal-enough or third way or whatever is fair criticism.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)How much of their total lifetime "earnings" have they extracted from banksters and corporate profiteers?
Where did all their total lifetime "earnings" go considering that they have "earned" more than double their current reported net worth?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Are you envious of people having money? They reported the income and paid taxes. Big deal.
JFK was rich and his wealth was inherited from liquor smuggling. He still became one of the greatest presidents.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Hillary lives under a microscope - if she were to get as much as a parking ticket it would be big news. If she had really been corrupt, she would have been finished a long time ago.
Also, would Obama have appointed a corrupt person to be SOS? HE CHOSE HER.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)trough they all eat from?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Z_California
(650 posts)I disagree. So do millions of others. Bernie will dominate the Independent vote and it will be a landslide, not the one you're predicting though.
This is something different. Normal Beltway conventional wisdom is useless right now. Ask HRC's campaign about that. The GOP is self-destructing before our eyes.
I hope you're not right. But I'm pretty sure you're dead wrong.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Where the party insiders tossed the hippies out of the convention and appointed a hawk that handed the presidency to Nixon.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and Vietnam war was the major issue.
None of those conditions exist right now. There is a difference between young people saying "I don't want to die in Vietnam" and those saying "We want free stuff"
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)The major difference between Bernie and Hillary is that Bernie is giving out more free stuff.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)He just wants to be the nominee for his ego gratification and doesn't care how many people he will end up hurting by facilitating the election of a republican.
So he wildly offers free stuff to get votes from rebellious students.
Hillary is being responsible and only offering limited free stuff that can actually get through congress.
It is very simple -- if you had 0% chance of getting $1,000,000 and 45% chance of getting $14,800, the young and impressionable will choose the $1,000,000 every time.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I suppose you look at all of the people showing up at Bernie rallies and think of them as a bunch of stupid moochers.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I remember it was dismissed back then too.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Happening than we know about I would bet... hilary has lost more than she can ever hope to recover and Bernie is doing what Bernie does and winning
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)femmedem
(8,206 posts)He says Sanders reminds him of FDR and Truman.
He started to come around when he realized that the Iraq war was based on a lie, and has been gradually becoming more open to voting for Democrats.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)It's a whole different dynamic. One the Clinton side can't seem to grasp, in the context of disaffected voters. My 85yo mom also hates hearing about trump on TV.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)I love having the feeling of voting for someone I really want much more than settling for someone in order to keep someone worse out of office.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Pretty much the same thing. Although I wouldn't call them 'bitter', but self identified 'fiscal conservatives' and 'moderate' republicans.
I'm delighted they are leaning toward Sanders, but definitely baffled.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They called any moderate Democrat a Socialist for decades. They even called Obama a Socialist.
More unintended consequences from the GOP.
Nyan
(1,192 posts)Because EVERYTHING is socialism, right?
"Obama's a socialist, Obamacare is a socialist," Blah blah blah blah blah blah just day in and day out ranting and raving and conflating the word with everything, and one day, it might have reached a point where they'd be yelling "But, but, but, he's a socialist!" and people would go "Meh. So what? We've lived under Obama socialism already"
IDK It is hilarious anyway.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)have been used to divide, to get us 99.9%ers blaming each other and ignoring the system
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Go, Mom! Go, Bernie!
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)concreteblue
(626 posts)"When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in excess body fat and be carrying a miss-spelled sign."
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,176 posts)Faux News, Limpballs, Hannity, Coulter etc.... screwed up bad.
By incessantly repeating the word over and over. And by labeling anyone and everything SOCIALISM, from the privately run "Obamacare" to the idea of the 95% supported basic gun-buying background checks, they have effectively de-thorned the word. When everything is called Socialism, it loses its sting.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)It WILL NOT occur for Hillary.
In fact quite the opposite will happen. Republican will come out (that would have otherwise stayed home) just to vote against HIllary.
phylny
(8,385 posts)vote for Hillary if she is the nominee.
I live in the south, and the hatred toward Hillary is real and it's not going away. Bernie, on the other hand, will not win over the Evangelicals because they're so Republican (Hillary doesn't have a chance, either), even Trump is better to them than any Democrat (see the support from Liberty University for a thrice-married adulterer). Bernie can and will win over Democrats and Independents alike, and probably fed-up Republicans.
I mentioned this on another thread, but my Republican, gun-toting, Liberty University graduate personal trainer said she'd vote for Bernie.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)No seriously thouhg, that's awesome!
DinahMoeHum
(21,806 posts). . .by one by one. . .
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Debbie certainly thinks so; why else would she tip the scales for Clinton at every turn?
rocktivity
(44,577 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:03 AM - Edit history (4)
"Crossover appeal" is what put Obama over -- what I called the mortified moderates, embarrassed evangelicals, worried women, and itchy independents. It was all over for Romney when he refused to show his tax returns: it cost him the one edge he had over Obama with independent voters. And now we can welcome repulsed Republicans into the fold.
Trump crossed the line by trying to bash Jeb with 9/11, and he knows it, as evidenced by describing his being booed for it as the work of shills and lobbyists and his recent threats to run as a third party candidate. It might be enough to inject oxygen into Jeb's campaign. But aside from that, what ARE Republicans repulsed by Trump more likely to do -- stay home, or hold their noses and vote for him, Hillary...or Bernie?
rocktivity
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)I believe us old folks are looking past Hillary to our grand-children. We can see where "business as usual" and "same old, same old" has gotten us and want more and better for the kids.
Don't discount the power of love.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)so she is still a Republican.
I think their are many Republicans who are working to help Bernie get the nomination so any GOP candidate will win in a 'walk'. She has complete confidene- well taken - in the GOP's ability to demagogue and demonize any opponent. Bernie, self proclaimed 'socialist', will be easy pickin's for the Masters of McCarthyism.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)She made up her mind about Hillary 25 years ago.
If it's Trump or Cruz, she'll either vote for Sanders or sit. I've been down this round with her before with Obama. Never could get her to vote for him. She didn't trust him. Apparently she has a keen nose for sincerity.
Uncle Joe
(58,405 posts)Thanks for sharing, Barack_America.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)I've gotta be tactful though. Misinformed or under-informed but thinks she's in the know: Gets pretty much all her news/info from breif watchings corporate MSM and Facebook "wall" comments. Republican by default but not at all a true conservative, and not even that political but is much like the way you describe your mother. Also there's kind of a vague/general "I'm doing the right thing but no one else is" attitude and is IMO, irrationally patriotic to the point of being inane. "America, love it or leave it" type. Her heart bleeds for "the troops" and law-enforcement officers; where she gets this and how she comes to feel such a connection, I have no idea. Sometimes she sounds like a real fascist and I kid her about that.
She liked Trump and Christie for the usual their tough-talk "tell it like it is" demeanor. I have tactfully and clinically pointed out out where those two, and indeed all the GOP candidates are very very hostile to the economic well being of our socio-economic class and I could tell the wheels were turning inside her head and she kind of agreed with me, but just pauses, then says "I've always been more for republicans than democrats...so was my ( late ) father" or somesuch blather.
I have to work slowly and steadily; like a river carving through stone to make a canyon.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)It just goes to show, there is value in talking to Republicans about the election, be it for Sanders or Clinton. There is hope.
Best of luck to you.
mvd
(65,180 posts)I've been trying to get my parents to support Bernie, but I have accepted they are voting for Hillary. My mom thinks it's her time and she is one of the most qualified ever. My dad just pretty much goes along. They like Bernie, but spout the "no we can't" line. I suppose I am just happy my dad is a good Democrat, as his parents were Repubicans. I appreciate your story! It shows how Bernie's message could cross party lines.
wakemewhenitsover
(1,595 posts)Me: "But he's against everything you support."
Dad: "How do you know what I support?!"
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I'm betting she either doesn't vote or votes for Trump, along with some more (R)s since she is voting for one on the top of the ticket.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)Nyan
(1,192 posts)I've seen many conservatives who are sick of the republican party going for Trump.
I'm guessing perhaps she dislikes his bluster and vulgarity...?
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Bernie. To know him is to love him!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)She said the Republicans are just too crazy, and she said will never cast a vote for someone as untrustworthy and changeable as Clinton.
SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)Your mom will have to wait her turn/