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Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:49 PM Feb 2016

Shocker of my day, my Republican mother is for Bernie...

For a little backstory, my mother has historically been for the Republican "brand"; certainly not a true conservative, but a reliable Republican voter. She's the typical "bitter" Caucasian voter that Obama got scolded for accurately describing, convinced her opportunities and fruits of her labor were taken from her and handed down to "moochers". Even before Reagan.

The Bush and tea party eras were enough to sour her of self-identifying as Republican, but she has still never voted for a Dem. I knew she would never in a million years vote for a Clinton, and I knew she would hate Trump, so I was very curious how she was leaning this year. I pegged her as either siding with a Republican "also ran", or, more likely, just sitting the election out.

Imagine my surprise when she announced, "I like Sanders, I think I'm voting for him."

Excuse me, come again?

Here's her process:
1. Hates Trump and is just basically done with Republicans at the moment. So annoyed with Trump she's not even willing to wade through the rest of the Republican candidates. The brand is dead to her.
2. Still despises all things Clinton.
3. So, she started to listen to and read about Sanders. "Likes him". "Believes he means what he says". Willing to register as a Democrat for the first time in her life to vote for him.

What? I even point out that he is a "Socialist". She shrugs her shoulders. The former curse word, "socialist", is now a shoulder shrug.

Mind blown.

That's it. Feel free to come at me with your "cool story, bro" responses. It was cool, completely unexpected and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this.

Enjoy your day.

104 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Shocker of my day, my Republican mother is for Bernie... (Original Post) Barack_America Feb 2016 OP
Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #1
I believe King Flores just called your mother horrible. EmperorHasNoClothes Feb 2016 #2
I sure did KingFlorez Feb 2016 #5
I tend to think of people like her as misinformed EmperorHasNoClothes Feb 2016 #10
You are way out of line. You should self-delete. cui bono Feb 2016 #11
Agree with you, fo sho... shameful. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #21
Despicable panader0 Feb 2016 #27
Not cool at all. Amimnoch Feb 2016 #45
Hillary on gay marriage. Unknown Beatle Feb 2016 #71
People often have a change of heart in their old age Lorien Feb 2016 #4
It does happen KingFlorez Feb 2016 #6
To be clear, "moochers" was my verbiage to sum up her position. Barack_America Feb 2016 #14
Jury Results stone space Feb 2016 #15
Racist? Not to my knowledge. Barack_America Feb 2016 #8
Speak for yourself. And you owe the OP an apology for insulting his/her mother ffs. cui bono Feb 2016 #12
Without addressing your slight on the person in question... thesquanderer Feb 2016 #16
Bernie always pulls in at least 20% of the GOP vote in his home State Lorien Feb 2016 #3
all the Republicans i have talked to stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #7
And the problem with that is....? jeff47 Feb 2016 #18
You need the secret decoder ring... geologic Feb 2016 #20
Nah, just waiting for the purity-based argument. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2016 #25
That's a very simple concept to follow so why support Clinton? rhett o rick Feb 2016 #82
Good. Shadowflash Feb 2016 #49
I remember that story.. disillusioned73 Feb 2016 #75
All the Republicans I have talked to say they are voting Sanders in the Primary and the General. rhett o rick Feb 2016 #81
" this posts has been hidden by a DU Jury" DanTex. stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #84
My mom, LWolf Feb 2016 #9
Similar story but w/grandma FrostyAusty Feb 2016 #29
One at a time, they are LWolf Feb 2016 #31
You just described me. Autumn Feb 2016 #41
I am hearing more and more of these stories. I think enough people are GreenPartyVoter Feb 2016 #13
I think people are just desperate to trust a politician again. Barack_America Feb 2016 #17
Yes, I consider dishonesty to be a part of our broken and corrupt government, and you are GreenPartyVoter Feb 2016 #19
that's how Reagan got in--by blaming poor economics on the "bureaucrats" and the Dems MisterP Feb 2016 #39
As misguided as voters who support Trump are, conservatives who are of the middle class Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #22
The electorate in general is fed up... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #24
Yea, you notice how when Trump calls them out using the words, special interest, to combat Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #35
I do not think that Jeb actually wanted to be president GeoWilliam750 Feb 2016 #51
They want money out of politics. One issue voters. Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #74
It IS the republican strategy - doh cosmicone Feb 2016 #23
All polls prove you wrong. But don't let that stop you. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #28
Those polls are meaningless a year ahead. n/t cosmicone Feb 2016 #40
Could you post the meaningful polls? n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #54
There aren't any cosmicone Feb 2016 #58
Ok, thanks and I appreciate your perspective, although I disagree. Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #60
Electability UnBlinkingEye Feb 2016 #65
None of those are liabilities in the GE cosmicone Feb 2016 #68
"Revolutionary echo chamber" UnBlinkingEye Feb 2016 #69
People hating her and not trusting her are not liabilities in the GE? mhatrw Feb 2016 #79
She has been the most admired woman for 20 years in a row cosmicone Feb 2016 #80
I am not saying this is 100% fair. I am saying that this is what the polls say. mhatrw Feb 2016 #83
The polls say it because people like you repeat it ad nauseum cosmicone Feb 2016 #87
What is the Clinton's current net worth? mhatrw Feb 2016 #93
What difference does it make? cosmicone Feb 2016 #96
The difference it makes is the appearance of corruption. nt mhatrw Feb 2016 #97
The "appearance" of corruption is in some people's minds cosmicone Feb 2016 #98
Who in the establishment media or Repuke party would take her to task for eating from the $ame mhatrw Feb 2016 #104
You can't be any clearer than that! NurseJackie Feb 2016 #36
That's just, like, your opinion man Z_California Feb 2016 #46
Actually, that's the Humphrey strategy.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #90
It was a 4 candidate contest back then cosmicone Feb 2016 #91
LOL!!! You think THAT is what Bernie is about??? Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #94
Yep cosmicone Feb 2016 #95
I had someone visit over the holidays that said that but they support Trump. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #99
It is ok for Bernie who doesn't care if a democrat gets elected. cosmicone Feb 2016 #100
Is that the kind of things Hillary supporters tell each other? Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #101
President Ron Paul also had big rallies. Wait ... oops! n/t cosmicone Feb 2016 #102
So did President Obama..... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #103
More of that Old Codger Feb 2016 #26
I don't think many of us are that shocked at this trend. nt. NCTraveler Feb 2016 #30
My father-in-law is also a lifelong Republican voter who prefers Sanders. femmedem Feb 2016 #32
When people can vote FOR someone instead of AGAINST Paulie Feb 2016 #33
Absolutely true! GreenPartyVoter Feb 2016 #52
Republicans in my family as well. Matariki Feb 2016 #34
I find it hilarious that the Republicans destroyed the shock value of "Socialist". Enthusiast Feb 2016 #37
Perhaps because they've used the word so much that they neutralized it? Nyan Feb 2016 #77
that's the "Sanders difference": he's not just honest, he shows how pushbutton issues MisterP Feb 2016 #38
"The former curse word, "socialist", is now a ..." Wilms Feb 2016 #42
Even republicans are figuring out that the Fascism just hasn't been working. Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #44
Sinclare was recently paraphrased: concreteblue Feb 2016 #85
Shit HAppens Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #92
"The former curse word, "socialist", is now a shoulder shrug." LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #61
THIS is what will continue to occur for Bernie. Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #43
I agree, and I say this as a Democrat who would without hesitation phylny Feb 2016 #48
bro story cool retrowire Feb 2016 #47
That's how we reach 'em. One by one by one by one by one. . . DinahMoeHum Feb 2016 #50
But...but...He's unelectable!! Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #53
But all that cross-over appeal means Sanders is unelectable, right? Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #55
It most certianly explains why both she and Trump are in panic mode. rocktivity Feb 2016 #56
Clinton can panick as much as she wants, it's Sanders who will be president. eom Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #72
I do not believe us old folks are looking past Hillary to Sanders. mikehiggins Feb 2016 #57
not surprising, she want the GOP to win in November. She buys all GOP McCarthyist Propaganda on HRC Bill USA Feb 2016 #59
I can assure you she will not vote for Trump or Cruz. Barack_America Feb 2016 #70
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #62
I'm working on my fiancee Populist_Prole Feb 2016 #63
I seriously didn't even plan to bring it up. Barack_America Feb 2016 #66
Great news! Thanks for sharing mvd Feb 2016 #64
Had a similar experience with my dad... wakemewhenitsover Feb 2016 #67
What if it is Trump v Clinton? Then who does she vote for? Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #73
Your mom just made my day... k8conant Feb 2016 #76
May I ask why your mother dislikes Trump? I'm curious. Nyan Feb 2016 #78
Smart mom! All of the GOP hates everything Clinton, so I'm not surprised your mom gravitated to in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #86
My mother also said she was going for Bernie Android3.14 Feb 2016 #88
Is she voting for him because he's sexy? I am. SusanaMontana41 Feb 2016 #89

Response to Barack_America (Original post)

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
5. I sure did
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:58 PM
Feb 2016

The person the OP described sounds absolutely horrible. Moochers? That's the sort of talk bigots use. I call things as I see them.

EmperorHasNoClothes

(4,797 posts)
10. I tend to think of people like her as misinformed
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:05 PM
Feb 2016

The fact that she is voting for Bernie over any of the Repubs who would tend to reinforce the "moocher" views tells me she has had a change of heart or seen the errors of her ways in at least a limited way.

When you demonize people like her you only polarize them and push them away. I'd prefer to have a new Democratic voter than a more polarized Repub voter.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
11. You are way out of line. You should self-delete.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:06 PM
Feb 2016

And with that attitude you will assure nobody ever sees the light. You are hurting more than helping.

.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
45. Not cool at all.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:14 PM
Feb 2016

My own Grandmother, age 92 is, for the first time in her life registered to vote.. at all! Her very first vote will be for a woman President. She also has some very out dated world views because she comes from a different time and place. For some background, I'm in a gay interracial marriage, and Hell, it took her years before she stopped referring to my husband as "that jigaboo" (VERY derogatory term for black people in the old language). She has come a long way since, but still... it was difficult to say the least. Luckily I'm married to the most wonderful, and understanding man on earth (imo), who also happened to have a grandmother who was.. displeased.. with our relationship and more recently our nuptials.

People can evolve, and adapt. for older people it can take more time and more persuasion. The fact that the OP's mom is that open and moving forward, regardless of who she is supporting is something that should be celebrated imo.

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
71. Hillary on gay marriage.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:44 PM
Feb 2016


?t=1m58s



Sorry, Hillary, Gay Rights Advocates Say Bernie Is Right On DOMA History




You're in a gay interracial marriage, and you're for Hillary. It's your right to choose whoever you please in the primaries, but I honestly think you're choosing the wrong candidate. Bernie has always been for gay marriage and has never backed down on that position. Hillary, on the other hand, has always been strongly against gay marriage until it became politically expedient. But that's not the only thing on why you should switch sides.

Know thy candidates.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
4. People often have a change of heart in their old age
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:58 PM
Feb 2016

my mom went from bra burning liberal feminist atheist to born again right wing Southern Baptist Republican. I would have preferred it if the reverse were true.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
6. It does happen
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:00 PM
Feb 2016

People can indeed change. I was just put off by the moochers line, which really rings of the worst kind of bigoted paranoia.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
14. To be clear, "moochers" was my verbiage to sum up her position.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:09 PM
Feb 2016

I don't believe I've heard her use that term. But, yes, she has been politically frustrating my entire life. I'm very pleased she's starting to realize the real forces at play here.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
15. Jury Results
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:09 PM
Feb 2016

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert

Mail Message



On Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:58 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Sounds like the horrible kind of person we don't want in our party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1239545

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Calling somebody's mother a horrible person is not cool.

Please hide.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:07 PM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Nasty thing to say about a DUers mother. Wow.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: A bit much.

Thank you.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
8. Racist? Not to my knowledge.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:02 PM
Feb 2016

Just the type of person who doesn't understand the cycle of poverty, believes that because she worked hard to better her situation, that opportunity is available to all.

I certainly hope the Democratic Party is open to voters now just realizing that the money has been going up, not down, and that's the problem.

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
16. Without addressing your slight on the person in question...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:11 PM
Feb 2016

we want EVERYONE voting for our candidates, whether we agree with them about everything or not. The more people who "stay with the GOP where they belong," the worse off we ALL are.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
3. Bernie always pulls in at least 20% of the GOP vote in his home State
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:56 PM
Feb 2016

for the same reasons. They know that he's honest, even if they don't agree with his policies, and that matters a lot!

stonecutter357

(12,697 posts)
7. all the Republicans i have talked to
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:01 PM
Feb 2016

say they are voting for sanders in the Primary and then changing to Republican general election.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
18. And the problem with that is....?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:16 PM
Feb 2016

If they succeed and get Sanders nominated, and all the Clinton supporters vote for sanders as they said they will, we still win.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
82. That's a very simple concept to follow so why support Clinton?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:08 PM
Feb 2016

I think that hero infatuation governs in some cases. Some would rather vote for Clinton even if you prove Sanders will do better in the General, because of authoritarian infatuation.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
75. I remember that story..
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 09:18 AM
Feb 2016

it was used around 2008 as well - if it was the case then it backfired, and if it is the case now.. guess what

I get a whole different sense from my Repub loyalist here in my are (& there are a lot) - Bernie is making them very nervous..

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
81. All the Republicans I have talked to say they are voting Sanders in the Primary and the General.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:06 PM
Feb 2016

They are glad to have an honest candidate to vote for.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
9. My mom,
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:04 PM
Feb 2016

a lover of all things Clinton since the 90s, is now a Sanders supporter.

Her process:

1. "He gets it."
2. "She doesn't," and
3. "I can't believe her anymore."

FrostyAusty

(57 posts)
29. Similar story but w/grandma
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:40 PM
Feb 2016

Lifelong dem, proud feminist, Hillary supporter in '08.. Even got in a fight with my aunt over Barack vs Hillary in '08.. Needless to say I thought for sure she was going to be for Hillary again this time around, so when I asked her at Thanksgiving earlier this year who she was supporting I was shocked.. With no hesitation in her voice at all she said "I'm voting for Bernie. I don't trust Hillary anymore and there is too much money corrupting our politics ." I was in awe... I couldn't fully believe it though, I thought maybe she was just saying that to make myself and the other grandkids happy and avoid conflict.. A month later Christmas rolls around and I'm at Grandma's lookin at the fridge when I see it... A postcard from the Bernie campaign thanking her for her donation!! Best Christmas gift Grandma could give to her grandkids.. A future we can be hopeful about!!

GreenPartyVoter

(72,381 posts)
13. I am hearing more and more of these stories. I think enough people are
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:08 PM
Feb 2016

so pissed off at how broken and wasteful the government is, and about working so hard and having so little to show for it, that Bernie is really resonating with them.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
17. I think people are just desperate to trust a politician again.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:14 PM
Feb 2016

Her interest in Sanders is 100% born out of a perception of honesty.

Although, from a policy standpoint, I am interested in a potential shift in Boomer Republican politics now they are using more of the benefits they were once so opposed to.

GreenPartyVoter

(72,381 posts)
19. Yes, I consider dishonesty to be a part of our broken and corrupt government, and you are
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:23 PM
Feb 2016

absolutely right as far as Boomer mindsets changing now that they need help. Life is very hard for seniors who don't have nest eggs to draw upo!

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
39. that's how Reagan got in--by blaming poor economics on the "bureaucrats" and the Dems
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:59 PM
Feb 2016

and Rockefeller Republicans: he had a brand-NEW economics to Make America Great Again

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
22. As misguided as voters who support Trump are, conservatives who are of the middle class
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
Feb 2016

and lower have expressed that if an establishment candidate in the Republican
party gets the nomination, they will vote for Sanders.

To what percent? I have no idea, it just surprised me how much they
don't want what their side is selling...as you say, totally unexpected.

TTUBatfan2008

(3,623 posts)
24. The electorate in general is fed up...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:31 PM
Feb 2016

with status quo politicians who are all owned by mega money corporate interests. This can be summed up best by Jeb Bush's failure. He has more big money backing him than anyone other than Clinton.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
35. Yea, you notice how when Trump calls them out using the words, special interest, to combat
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:52 PM
Feb 2016

against them? They do not respond by saying..no, that's not true! lol They can't.

I freely admit, I have enjoyed watching the Bush legacy burn to the ground,
Jeb! blew it as soon as he conceded he could not use his last name while
campaigning.

Sucks to be a Bush even in the Republican Party.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
74. They want money out of politics. One issue voters.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:47 AM
Feb 2016

If we can't land them with Bernie they will turn to Trump.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
23. It IS the republican strategy - doh
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
Feb 2016

Republicans want Bernie Sanders to get the nomination so any clown they put up will win a 49 state victory.

It is called the "Claire McCaskill strategy"

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
58. There aren't any
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:39 PM
Feb 2016

However, common sense tells me that the republicans would define Bernie as a marxist communist who wants a revolution and who will tax everyone to death to give freebies to freeloaders. That is what republicans do.

Bernie will be lucky if he won Vermont with that barrage. Approximately $2 billion will be spent to demolish him and his small donors won't be able to keep pace.

Bernie is getting a free ride and people are allowing him to skate on the specifics. It won't work in the GE. He will have to tell what his tax brackets will be and what his new tax rate will be. Then he will become another Mondale.

You may find the "revolution" as a very strong phenomenon on reddit, facebook, DU and twitter but there is a whole world out there. The way the electoral college is, Bernie will have to win Ohio, Florida, North Carolina AND Virginia and that will be impossible under the barrage of "marxist commie taxing people to death for redistribution" memes.

I did wake up and smell the coffee a long time ago. Electability is the MAIN reason I am voting for Hillary. Bernie is a good man and I agree with him on most things. He. Is. Just. Not. Electable.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
60. Ok, thanks and I appreciate your perspective, although I disagree.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:52 PM
Feb 2016

The revolt is not merely among Democrats and millennials, Republicans
are experiencing something they have not seen before, different than the Tea Party.
There are differences in appeal except for one, corruption in politics...they're
unified on that front. I am not convinced they'll buy into Kasich, either.







 

UnBlinkingEye

(56 posts)
65. Electability
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:21 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary proved she wasn't electable in 2008, she will prove it again soon. Kissinger, Iraq, Goldman Sachs...

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
68. None of those are liabilities in the GE
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:46 PM
Feb 2016

They are liabilities in the "revolutionary echo chamber" only

 

UnBlinkingEye

(56 posts)
69. "Revolutionary echo chamber"
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:55 PM
Feb 2016

Is in Hillary's head.

First:

Barack, Barack, Barack...

Now:

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie...

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
79. People hating her and not trusting her are not liabilities in the GE?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

All of you "Hillary is more electable" apologists live in a bizarre world in which personalities have no effect on voting. For some bizarre reason, it does not matter to you that well over 50% of voters dislike Clinton, nor does it matter to you that well over 75% of voters think Clinton is untrustworthy. To you, the only thing that affect voters is where a candidate lies on some bullshit 20-year-old corporate media and conservative think tank left-right spectrum. To you, if a candidate is too far left, he or she is simply unelectable.

Taxes were once a dirty word no matter who they were applied to. But now the vast majority of Americans agrees the rich pay too far little in taxes.

Single payer healthcare was once a nonstarter, but now the vast majority of Americans knows healthcare costs are out of control and everybody feel the pain of the current system.

Keeping our military "strong" was once the number one national priority. But after Iraq, more and more people have come to realize what a complete counterproductive scam our rampant military misadventurism is.

Free trade was once all the rage. But income inequality has gotten so bad that even Thomas Friedman is afraid to go to bat for the TPP in print.

The easiest way to get voters used to be to promise to put everyone in jail and throw away the key. But the pendulum has now swung so far in the direction of a police state that putting kids in jail for pot possession scares us more than Willie Horton does.

The current political climate in nothing like it was when an establishment liberal ran against an establishment conservative 32 years ago.

Do you realize that things change? Do you understand that the pendulum swings left whenever it has gone so far right that threatens to destroy our whole demand based economy? Have you even looked the voting preferences of those under 40? Has this made any impression on you whatsoever?

To elect Sanders in a landslide, all we have to do convince a few more people over 40 what almost everybody under 40 already knows. Enough is enough!

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
80. She has been the most admired woman for 20 years in a row
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 11:54 AM
Feb 2016

"People hating her and not trusting her" is a meme that reverberates only in the aforementioned revolutionary echo chamber.

To me, she is a brilliant lawyer who has had an illustrious career. In the dash for freebies some people are maligning her and it is grossly unfair.

Would President Obama have selected her to be the SOS in his admin if she was so untrustworthy?

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
83. I am not saying this is 100% fair. I am saying that this is what the polls say.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:10 PM
Feb 2016

How do you propose to change the hearts and minds of everybody who does not like her and finds her untrustworthy?

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
87. The polls say it because people like you repeat it ad nauseum
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:39 PM
Feb 2016

and play into republican hands.

Stop doing it and put your differences with Hillary in a constructive light.

Calling her corrupt and untrustworthy is just a smear. Calling her not liberal-enough or third way or whatever is fair criticism.

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
93. What is the Clinton's current net worth?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:45 PM
Feb 2016

How much of their total lifetime "earnings" have they extracted from banksters and corporate profiteers?

Where did all their total lifetime "earnings" go considering that they have "earned" more than double their current reported net worth?

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
96. What difference does it make?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:49 PM
Feb 2016

Are you envious of people having money? They reported the income and paid taxes. Big deal.

JFK was rich and his wealth was inherited from liquor smuggling. He still became one of the greatest presidents.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
98. The "appearance" of corruption is in some people's minds
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:56 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary lives under a microscope - if she were to get as much as a parking ticket it would be big news. If she had really been corrupt, she would have been finished a long time ago.

Also, would Obama have appointed a corrupt person to be SOS? HE CHOSE HER.

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
104. Who in the establishment media or Repuke party would take her to task for eating from the $ame
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 04:29 PM
Feb 2016

trough they all eat from?

Z_California

(650 posts)
46. That's just, like, your opinion man
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:16 PM
Feb 2016

I disagree. So do millions of others. Bernie will dominate the Independent vote and it will be a landslide, not the one you're predicting though.

This is something different. Normal Beltway conventional wisdom is useless right now. Ask HRC's campaign about that. The GOP is self-destructing before our eyes.

I hope you're not right. But I'm pretty sure you're dead wrong.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
90. Actually, that's the Humphrey strategy....
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:06 PM
Feb 2016

Where the party insiders tossed the hippies out of the convention and appointed a hawk that handed the presidency to Nixon.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
91. It was a 4 candidate contest back then
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:27 PM
Feb 2016

and Vietnam war was the major issue.

None of those conditions exist right now. There is a difference between young people saying "I don't want to die in Vietnam" and those saying "We want free stuff"

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
100. It is ok for Bernie who doesn't care if a democrat gets elected.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 03:07 PM
Feb 2016

He just wants to be the nominee for his ego gratification and doesn't care how many people he will end up hurting by facilitating the election of a republican.

So he wildly offers free stuff to get votes from rebellious students.

Hillary is being responsible and only offering limited free stuff that can actually get through congress.

It is very simple -- if you had 0% chance of getting $1,000,000 and 45% chance of getting $14,800, the young and impressionable will choose the $1,000,000 every time.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
101. Is that the kind of things Hillary supporters tell each other?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 03:11 PM
Feb 2016

I suppose you look at all of the people showing up at Bernie rallies and think of them as a bunch of stupid moochers.

 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
26. More of that
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:31 PM
Feb 2016

Happening than we know about I would bet... hilary has lost more than she can ever hope to recover and Bernie is doing what Bernie does and winning

femmedem

(8,206 posts)
32. My father-in-law is also a lifelong Republican voter who prefers Sanders.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:47 PM
Feb 2016

He says Sanders reminds him of FDR and Truman.

He started to come around when he realized that the Iraq war was based on a lie, and has been gradually becoming more open to voting for Democrats.

Paulie

(8,462 posts)
33. When people can vote FOR someone instead of AGAINST
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:48 PM
Feb 2016

It's a whole different dynamic. One the Clinton side can't seem to grasp, in the context of disaffected voters. My 85yo mom also hates hearing about trump on TV.

GreenPartyVoter

(72,381 posts)
52. Absolutely true!
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:04 PM
Feb 2016

I love having the feeling of voting for someone I really want much more than settling for someone in order to keep someone worse out of office.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
34. Republicans in my family as well.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:51 PM
Feb 2016

Pretty much the same thing. Although I wouldn't call them 'bitter', but self identified 'fiscal conservatives' and 'moderate' republicans.

I'm delighted they are leaning toward Sanders, but definitely baffled.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
37. I find it hilarious that the Republicans destroyed the shock value of "Socialist".
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:56 PM
Feb 2016

They called any moderate Democrat a Socialist for decades. They even called Obama a Socialist.

More unintended consequences from the GOP.

Nyan

(1,192 posts)
77. Perhaps because they've used the word so much that they neutralized it?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 11:39 AM
Feb 2016

Because EVERYTHING is socialism, right?
"Obama's a socialist, Obamacare is a socialist," Blah blah blah blah blah blah just day in and day out ranting and raving and conflating the word with everything, and one day, it might have reached a point where they'd be yelling "But, but, but, he's a socialist!" and people would go "Meh. So what? We've lived under Obama socialism already"

IDK It is hilarious anyway.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
38. that's the "Sanders difference": he's not just honest, he shows how pushbutton issues
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:57 PM
Feb 2016

have been used to divide, to get us 99.9%ers blaming each other and ignoring the system

concreteblue

(626 posts)
85. Sinclare was recently paraphrased:
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:14 PM
Feb 2016

"When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in excess body fat and be carrying a miss-spelled sign."

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
61. "The former curse word, "socialist", is now a shoulder shrug."
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:58 PM
Feb 2016

Faux News, Limpballs, Hannity, Coulter etc.... screwed up bad.

By incessantly repeating the word over and over. And by labeling anyone and everything SOCIALISM, from the privately run "Obamacare" to the idea of the 95% supported basic gun-buying background checks, they have effectively de-thorned the word. When everything is called Socialism, it loses its sting.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
43. THIS is what will continue to occur for Bernie.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:08 PM
Feb 2016

It WILL NOT occur for Hillary.

In fact quite the opposite will happen. Republican will come out (that would have otherwise stayed home) just to vote against HIllary.

phylny

(8,385 posts)
48. I agree, and I say this as a Democrat who would without hesitation
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:43 PM
Feb 2016

vote for Hillary if she is the nominee.

I live in the south, and the hatred toward Hillary is real and it's not going away. Bernie, on the other hand, will not win over the Evangelicals because they're so Republican (Hillary doesn't have a chance, either), even Trump is better to them than any Democrat (see the support from Liberty University for a thrice-married adulterer). Bernie can and will win over Democrats and Independents alike, and probably fed-up Republicans.

I mentioned this on another thread, but my Republican, gun-toting, Liberty University graduate personal trainer said she'd vote for Bernie.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
55. But all that cross-over appeal means Sanders is unelectable, right?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:11 PM
Feb 2016

Debbie certainly thinks so; why else would she tip the scales for Clinton at every turn?

rocktivity

(44,577 posts)
56. It most certianly explains why both she and Trump are in panic mode.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:28 PM
Feb 2016

Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:03 AM - Edit history (4)

"Crossover appeal" is what put Obama over -- what I called the mortified moderates, embarrassed evangelicals, worried women, and itchy independents. It was all over for Romney when he refused to show his tax returns: it cost him the one edge he had over Obama with independent voters. And now we can welcome repulsed Republicans into the fold.

Trump crossed the line by trying to bash Jeb with 9/11, and he knows it, as evidenced by describing his being booed for it as the work of shills and lobbyists and his recent threats to run as a third party candidate. It might be enough to inject oxygen into Jeb's campaign. But aside from that, what ARE Republicans repulsed by Trump more likely to do -- stay home, or hold their noses and vote for him, Hillary...or Bernie?


rocktivity

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
57. I do not believe us old folks are looking past Hillary to Sanders.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:37 PM
Feb 2016

I believe us old folks are looking past Hillary to our grand-children. We can see where "business as usual" and "same old, same old" has gotten us and want more and better for the kids.

Don't discount the power of love.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
59. not surprising, she want the GOP to win in November. She buys all GOP McCarthyist Propaganda on HRC
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:48 PM
Feb 2016

so she is still a Republican.

I think their are many Republicans who are working to help Bernie get the nomination so any GOP candidate will win in a 'walk'. She has complete confidene- well taken - in the GOP's ability to demagogue and demonize any opponent. Bernie, self proclaimed 'socialist', will be easy pickin's for the Masters of McCarthyism.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
70. I can assure you she will not vote for Trump or Cruz.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:56 PM
Feb 2016

She made up her mind about Hillary 25 years ago.

If it's Trump or Cruz, she'll either vote for Sanders or sit. I've been down this round with her before with Obama. Never could get her to vote for him. She didn't trust him. Apparently she has a keen nose for sincerity.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
63. I'm working on my fiancee
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:06 PM
Feb 2016

I've gotta be tactful though. Misinformed or under-informed but thinks she's in the know: Gets pretty much all her news/info from breif watchings corporate MSM and Facebook "wall" comments. Republican by default but not at all a true conservative, and not even that political but is much like the way you describe your mother. Also there's kind of a vague/general "I'm doing the right thing but no one else is" attitude and is IMO, irrationally patriotic to the point of being inane. "America, love it or leave it" type. Her heart bleeds for "the troops" and law-enforcement officers; where she gets this and how she comes to feel such a connection, I have no idea. Sometimes she sounds like a real fascist and I kid her about that.

She liked Trump and Christie for the usual their tough-talk "tell it like it is" demeanor. I have tactfully and clinically pointed out out where those two, and indeed all the GOP candidates are very very hostile to the economic well being of our socio-economic class and I could tell the wheels were turning inside her head and she kind of agreed with me, but just pauses, then says "I've always been more for republicans than democrats...so was my ( late ) father" or somesuch blather.

I have to work slowly and steadily; like a river carving through stone to make a canyon.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
66. I seriously didn't even plan to bring it up.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:23 PM
Feb 2016

It just goes to show, there is value in talking to Republicans about the election, be it for Sanders or Clinton. There is hope.

Best of luck to you.

mvd

(65,180 posts)
64. Great news! Thanks for sharing
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:19 PM
Feb 2016

I've been trying to get my parents to support Bernie, but I have accepted they are voting for Hillary. My mom thinks it's her time and she is one of the most qualified ever. My dad just pretty much goes along. They like Bernie, but spout the "no we can't" line. I suppose I am just happy my dad is a good Democrat, as his parents were Repubicans. I appreciate your story! It shows how Bernie's message could cross party lines.

wakemewhenitsover

(1,595 posts)
67. Had a similar experience with my dad...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:37 PM
Feb 2016

Me: "But he's against everything you support."
Dad: "How do you know what I support?!"

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
73. What if it is Trump v Clinton? Then who does she vote for?
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:45 AM
Feb 2016

I'm betting she either doesn't vote or votes for Trump, along with some more (R)s since she is voting for one on the top of the ticket.




Nyan

(1,192 posts)
78. May I ask why your mother dislikes Trump? I'm curious.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 11:42 AM
Feb 2016

I've seen many conservatives who are sick of the republican party going for Trump.
I'm guessing perhaps she dislikes his bluster and vulgarity...?

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
86. Smart mom! All of the GOP hates everything Clinton, so I'm not surprised your mom gravitated to
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:24 PM
Feb 2016

Bernie. To know him is to love him!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
88. My mother also said she was going for Bernie
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 01:50 PM
Feb 2016

She said the Republicans are just too crazy, and she said will never cast a vote for someone as untrustworthy and changeable as Clinton.

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