2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe 538 site has just added/updated a number of states' probabilities of candidates winning....
The numbers are stunning!
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/nevada-democratic/
These are % chance of winning, not poll results:
Nevada Clinton 69%
South Carolina Clinton >99%
Arkansas Clinton >99%
Georgia Clinton >99%
Oklahoma Clinton 81%
Tennessee Clinton >99%
Virginia Clinton 98%
Michigan Clinton 95%
North Carolina Clinton 97%
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Sadly Google news is all Bernie all the time, except when there's fresh nasty about Hillary I think they need to work on the personalization ...
Quixote1818
(28,946 posts)He tells people to basically ignore polls until about two weeks out. Anything beyond two weeks is name recognition because people don't start paying attention until the actual primary they will vote in is right around the corner. It's why states like Nevada quickly went from 30 point spreads to zero in a matter of days.
George II
(67,782 posts)....chance of winning, i.e., a 50.1 to 49.9 result for Clinton is a win.
For Sanders to get the nomination he has to come out ahead in more states than New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine. Right now it looks like those states are his "firewall".
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Hillary may take Bernie down on the same day.
https://twitter.com/SteveKornacki/status/699989783586738176
hoosierlib
(710 posts)If NV falls and SC is less than a 10 point victory for HRC, its going to get real interesting...
Actually for it to be a solid win she has to take it by 20 points.
Anything under 10 may as well be a loss or a tie.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)He'll rack up states in the Northeast, Rust Belt, Midwest, and West Coast. Some of them by substantial margins.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Bernie will have more pledged delegates. Then if DNClinton want to go scorched earth with Superdelegate the party split and November bloodbath fall entirely on their shoulders.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)On Super Tuesday he will likely take 4 to Hillary's 7 states. Splitting delegates, it will still be a very close race on Wednesday morning.
Just settle in for a long Primary.
George II
(67,782 posts)Here are the Super Tuesday primary states/territories:
American Samoa - ?
Arkansas - Clinton easily
Colorado - Clinton but close
Democrats abroad - ?
Georgia - Clinton easily
Massachusetts - Clinton but close
Minnesota - Clinton but close
Oklahoma - Clinton but close
Tennessee - Clinton easily
Texas - Clinton easily
Vermont - Sanders easily
Virginia - Clinton easily
Remember, these are all proportional states, the few Sanders wins will have to more than compensate for Clinton's wins in order for him to be competitive overall. That's not going to happen.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Oklahoma a long shot.
Remember ALL of the state's are promotional, even Hillary win states.
Also remember, Sanders is the leader in pledged delegates so far. He will likely win NV and Hillary will take SC.
Settle in for a long contest. It will not be over on March 1, not by a long shot. Bernie is in it to win it. He has the fundraising ability and will bag enough delegates along the way to stay competitive. Hillary will not be able to put him away mathematically for a long time, if ever.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)hoosierlib
(710 posts)And their odds are based off of a very small sample size of polls...
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)However Bernie jumped up to third after recent primaries. Behind Hillary and Trump. Will the trend continue after next weeks primaries?
Stunning numbers for sure!
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Absent is Colorado and Minnesota. And of course Vermont.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Given that he has an approval rating of 83 percent as Senator and VT has an open primary. PPP polled him ahead by 78 percent.
It says something that you get that kind of approval when you have been in one elected office or another for about 40 plus years.
kenn3d
(486 posts)Bobby Jindal was really not popular in Louisiana (--% when he dropped out)
Jeb! is currently at just 4% in Florida
O'Malley never got above the low single digits in Maryland
And even Hillary was just 43% in Illinois, 55% in New York, and 57% in Arkansas, as of the last Primary polls taken in those states, (not sure which/where she calls home).
Bernie Sanders is polling at 86% in Vermont (w/95% favorables)
He been their Mayor, Representative, and Senator for 4 decades, and they LOVE him.
George II
(67,782 posts)........of course he'll win but that state has the 4th lowest number of delegates available (15) of all 50, and Clinton has several of the superdelegates already anyway.
mythology
(9,527 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)the predictions does not mean the predictions are wrong. And these are not even predictions, just odds.
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)Response to George II (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
George II
(67,782 posts)Persondem
(1,936 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Does Native Silver still think Trump has no chance at the Republican nomination? He should really give up on this politics thing, he's not very good at it.
George II
(67,782 posts)kcjohn1
(751 posts)And PPP is even worse which a lot of these calculations is based off.
Nate is pretty accurate a week or two out when there is significant polling. He had Clinton at 70% to win NH early January. A week before election the election Bernie was at 99%. Huge flux to make his early predictions useless.
PPP which is doing polling work for Clinton leans her heavily. They had Clinton up +7 in early January in NH. Their last poll had Bernie +9 when he finished with +22. In Iowa they had Clinton up +9, we don't know the popular vote but there is good chance Bernie won the popular vote given his voters were clustered in areas.
If you give Bernie +10 that PPP is under counting his voters + two more weeks campaigning I suspect Bernie will close the gap in south and win heavy in some of the liberal states for tie. That is good news because he has more time to get his message out and most of the remaining states are more friendly to him.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Interesting.
If these numbers are close to accurate, Sanders has a long way to go.
I think time is running out for his campaign.
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)Odds of winning a state alone doesn't give a clue as to how many delegates a candidate gets... it depends on how many delegates a state has AND the margin of victory (since delegates are awarded proportionately).
For example, decisive wins in California and New York (722 delegates between them) could more than offset losses in two dozen smaller states that, between all of them, have fewer delegates than that.
George II
(67,782 posts).....those other two by near unanimous margins.
BTW, Clinton is ahead in New York by 21% (233) and California by 14% (405), but neither have enough polls for 538 to make a % prediction. In addition, Clinton has a 25% lead in Florida (207) and 31% lead in Texas (208).
That's double-digit leads (20+ in three of the four) leads in states totaling more than 1,000 delegates. Even if they wind up being close, that would be ~ 500 each. One can't come from behind if one can't get a few decent wins, which won't happen.
It's like a chess match - when a Grand Master wins a game early in the match, he/she plays for draws the rest of the way.
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)"...those other two by near unanimous margins."
No... In order to come out ahead in delegates, the 2-state candidate in this example only has to beat whatever overall margin the 24-state candidate achieved, whatever that figure is.
I'm not saying it's likely to happen, I'm just discussing the math.
If candidate A wins 24 states and ends up with, say, 60% of roughly 720 delegares, which is 432 delegates, then the other candidate can theoretically win by just a hair more in two states that have about that same number of delegates, and come out ahead. For example, 61% of the roughly 720 delegates of those two states yields 439 delegates. The second candidate in no way needs to win those two states by near unanimous margins to end up ahead in total delegate count. The only way that would be true would be if the first candidate had won the first 24 states by near unanimous margins as well. Simply, in this scenario, whoever wins their group by the greater margin wins more delegates. There is no need for one's margin to be much greater than the other's, any amount will do.
I still think Hillary is likely to win the nomination, I'm just saying that "number of states won" is, by itself, not a particularly good metric.
George II
(67,782 posts)....I've been saying that since the spring. It's a bragging point, not a practical indication of where the two candidates stand.
Clinton barely won in Iowa, Sanders won "big" in New Hampshire (even though NH has less voters than more than 40 states), and yet they're only 4 delegates apart out of 68 delegates chosen.
Politics aside at this point, the numbers are definitely in Clinton's favor, by Super Tuesday II (March 15), it will be virtually impossible for Sanders to recover.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Thanks for the update