2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Hillary Clinton's Gay Marriage Quote Shocks Students"
Vote for Bernie Sanders
merrily
(45,251 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)They gave you points for accuracy though.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I should come up with for free something better than what CBS paid people to come up with?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And no...I think CBS should be looking into paying you generously. You're better than their people are.
merrily
(45,251 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And things are changing with this election...I feel it, and I know some others do too. My feeling doesn't win me anything, and the nomination is still Clinton's to lose, but Sanders is coming on like a freight train, and it's an exciting time. I hope you have a good weekend.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I wish Sanders had a couple more weeks before Super Tuesday, but we'll see.
I wonder how and by whom the date for Super Tuesday gets set?
LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)You might as well link to Breitbart or Twitchy for all your moral superiority.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)Guard it well.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)she was too frightened to support gay rights several years ago.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Is based on whichever way the wind is blowing and not based on principles.
LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Correct the Record and voiced your displeasure with their use of Fox News clips slandering Sanders in their ads.
Mthomas1011
(4 posts)Not anti-Hillary. the truth. What Hillary, Bill and her Surrogates are saying is distortions and lies that are getting debunked soon as they come out. What everyone want is true debate, present your argument for yourself without the sideway lies and let the people decide what they want. So, you will continue and see TRUTHS from Hillary past until she comply!#BernieSanders2016
LuvLoogie
(7,014 posts)where will your moral superiority leave you?
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)It will leave me wishing we had a candidate who could win the general. If the corporatists manage to edge her into the White House, it will leave me wishing we had a president who could function.
Hillary will be impeached probably in the first week. And she won't have the sympathy that a lot of people showed for Bill when his scummy behavior got him impeached.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)for the last 40 years.. and we keep voting in Clintons and Bushs
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)jmowreader
(50,560 posts)First, Hillary Clinton's views on gay marriage have evolved over time. A lot of things have evolved over time...
But more important, WHY ARE YOU GOING TO RIGHT WING HIT SITES IN THE FIRST PLACE? The Media Research Center belongs to Brent Bozell, who's to the right of Jesse Helms.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)He had severe emphysema. I wonder why? I don't think this example of evolution is a very good comparison, but thanks for the laugh. I do think the MRC has an agenda against Democrats so I agree that spreading their propaganda helps no one.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)and sisters?
When she declared on the Senate floor.. that she supports traditional marriage between 1 man and 1 women..did she believe it or was she just choosing the more politically advantageous position ?
Well here watch... she says it right here on the floor of the Senate..
Amazing stream of thought there from Hillary...progressive ? No I don't think so... Incredible.. yes...
Up until what election cycle did she support the Right Wings position on the denial of constitutional rights to gay people...
Orsino
(37,428 posts)What do we make of adept politicians like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, whose rock-bottom principles suddenly "evolve" when opinion polls shift?
It ought to teach us the value of principles adhered to when those views are unpopular.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Great way with words you have, really makes your point of view clear.....
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Hey, I coulda put a picture of Robert Byrd in a KKK robe up there, but I didn't have one.
The public's approval of smoking and its approval of gay rights have taken similar paths. In the 1950s, you could smoke anywhere you wanted and you could get 25 years in the state pen for gay sex. In 2016, you can enter into a same-sex marriage anywhere you want and you have to stand 25 feet from a building entrance to smoke!
jham123
(278 posts)but you failed miserably.....
Then you doubled down with Robert Byrd......would you like me to hand you a bigger shovel?
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Real Democrats are not going to risk this nation by allowing Bernie onto the general election ballot.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Indies are going to call the shots here.
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Your choices are simple: Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. If Clinton makes it to the GE, she's president. If Sanders makes it, Trump is.
frylock
(34,825 posts)jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Sanders isn't all that well known outside of Democratic circles. Right now, all the general population REALLY knows about him is he is a "socialist" (cue the Soviet Anthem, the East German Anthem, the Polish Anthem...) and he wants to raise taxes to give away a bunch of free stuff. Once the GOP gets hold of him, he doesn't stand a chance. You know this.
Hillary Clinton has been brushing aside Republican bullshit for 25 years.
frylock
(34,825 posts)You're right. He isn't well known. Funny thing is, the more people see him, the more people like him. It's the polar opposite with Hillary.
jham123
(278 posts)The polls show Bernie beating every Pub in the GE while the same poll shows Shillary losing to every Pub in the GE...
Go ahead, ask me for a link.....When I hand it to you along with your _ _ _ , will you Cede?
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)You know it's almost 300 days to the GE? And that in New Hampshire, 300 days out Hillary was beating Bernie in the polls like Donald Trump's rug?
Ask yourself why there are Republicans for Bernie Sanders groups, if Bernie is inevitable to beat every Republican in the GE. The reality is they know how untenable his proposals really are. Bernie might talk about how wonderful the $15 per hour minimum wage in SeaTac is (and it is), but he forgets to tell you a few things: it's only for transportation workers, hotel workers in properties with more than 100 rooms, and restaurants with more than 10 non-supervisory employees. If you pump gas into Airbuses, you earn $15 per hour - well, a little more now because it's indexed to inflation - but if you pump gas into Buicks, you earn a lot less. The law works well as it is, but if they expanded it to ALL the businesses in SeaTac, most of those businesses would pack up and move to Tukwila or Kent.
Plus, I can't think of a place in America where $15 is a "living wage." In small towns and rural areas it's too high, and in big cities it's still too low. A baseline $12 and targeted higher wages where necessary makes far more sense.
The healthcare plan is unworkable. Flat out. It relies on a LOT of assumptions that may not work out in practice...like, oh, the willingness of Mr. Goldman and Mr. Sachs to not just tell America, "fuck y'all, we're not going to pay everyone's doctor bills by ourselves, we're going to take our billions and go live on an island somewhere."
I've also read the "how Bernie will pay for his programs" graphic. Very strange. He plans to pay for three different programs by "closing Wall Street loopholes." Dude, you can only close a loophole one time.
Do you want to know the ad that will kill Bernie once and for all? While an announcer is talking about how Sanders' plans rely on the same tax hikes, a beautifully manicured woman's hand will be folding $100 bills in half and placing them in her wallet - implying that Sanders' plan works the same as doubling your money by folding it in half.
It is much better that we defeat Sanders in the primary and run Hillary Clinton, who has a long history of being able to turn Republican bullshit back around on them, in the general. Hillary can beat any Republican on experience alone, and her policies, while not as superficially wonderful as Sanders', are light years ahead of anything on that side of the ballot. Most of the Republicans who have already dropped out of the primary race could come back and thump Sanders. Trump, Cruz and Rubio can all do it.
jham123
(278 posts)to look at the very well publicized polls and go with your opinion and conjecture.
Never mind speaking with you, we'll just wait and see. The proof will be in the pudding.
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Last year, about as distant from New Hampshire as the GE is from now, Hillary was beating Bernie by more than Bernie actually beat Hillary. Don't trust what the polls say now, jham; things DO change in politics.
I also look at history. Were you politically active in 2004? We had a WONDERFUL candidate that year. John Kerry's real-life Vietnam experiences read like the script for a superhero movie - and he's done a hell of a job as Secretary of State. (When Hillary wins she and America would be VERY well served if she kept him.) The GOP managed to take Kerry's strengths and turn them into critical weaknesses, and they will do exactly the same for Bernie Sanders.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)and Bernie's surge as proof she can win the general election, even though her numbers are already showing her losing and Bernie winning?
jham123
(278 posts)The proof is in the pudding....Did Shillary win?? Yes she did, Landslide? No. Bernie surging ? Yes.
It's a long battle and all the states where Shillary is expected to win, she eeks out a "W" by the narrowest of margins.
It won't take long now.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Dynasties ... enough is enough
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)It's sure feeling that way to me. No, I don't have numbers handy, just participating in the conversation.
krawhitham
(4,644 posts)142 days ago
Hillary Clinton: I Could Compromise on Abortion If It Included Exceptions For Mother's Health
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html
jmowreader
(50,560 posts)With Hillary on the ticket in November we stand an excellent chance of getting to the 6-3 Supreme Court we need to declare TRAP laws unconstitutional. With Bernie on the ticket, we stand an excellent chance of getting the kind of Supreme Court they need to overturn Roe v Wade, Obergefell v Hodges, Lawrence v. Texas and Griswold v. Connecticut. Why? BECAUSE BERNIE WILL DRAW REPUBLICANS TO THE POLLS IN RECORD NUMBERS!
Here's the question you have to ask yourself. Do you want to live in America or Afghanistan?
If you want to live in an America where we keep what we have and make it better, choose Hillary in the primary and vote for her in November. Hillary is not offering free anything. She is not promising an exciting political revolution. She offers achievable, affordable improvement.
If you want America to become a total theocracy, choose Bernie in the primary. Why the hell do you think Brent Bozell is out there smearing Hillary by bringing up beliefs she has since abandoned? Why do you think there are Republicans for Bernie Sanders groups? It's because they know they can't beat Hillary Clinton in a head-to-head matchup but they can stomp Bernie like a grape. He is their dream candidate - finally, a person running as a Democrat that really is all the things they've said about Democrats for the last forty years! And like it or not, they WILL call him a communist. Guaranteed. And with Bernie's history being one of socialist this and radical that, they'll have a pretty good case. But don't worry, they've got lots of other attacks: higher taxes, plans to shut down businesses, plans to nationalize the nation's health care system...
I want America to be better than it is. Only one candidate on either ticket can do that. None of the Republicans can do it because their whole program requires laying waste to everything this nation stands for. Bernie can't do it because he'll never get the opportunity - he'll lose 49 states. If you agree America needs to be better than it is, please vote for Hillary Clinton.
frylock
(34,825 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)And refuses to admit she "evolved."
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Smart kids.
Love this.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Got more evolutions that Perfect Cell in this trick.
jham123
(278 posts)...you can view Bernie's old speeches and he is surprisingly consistent with just about everything he stated 40 years ago...
Wow...what a concept
reformist2
(9,841 posts)They know Hillary will say anything to get votes. I guess that's why they're breaking 90/10 for Bernie...
zappaman
(20,606 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)she is really against gay marriage but feels that she should go with the flow.
jham123
(278 posts)I mean, at the end of the Clinton tenure, people were sick to death of them putting their wet finger in the air and going with wherever the political winds blew them to....
Gore stood no chance at that moment.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacred
^snip^
Full Definition of sacred
1a : dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity <a tree sacred to the gods>
b : devoted exclusively to one service or use (as of a person or purpose) <a fund sacred to charity>
2a : worthy of religious veneration : holy
b : entitled to reverence and respect