I would respect Hillary supporters a lot more if they would just.......

[Logical]

....admit Bernie is what a real liberal/progressive president should be!

Maybe you think he is not electable, which is not true, but at least admit he is who progressives should want for president.

I think many know this, but will not just admit it!

[seaotter]

1. Many actually support her corporatist agenda.

Third Way is still kind of a thing.

[Avalux]

8. This is what gets me. They'll never come around to Bernie. Idealogically opposed. n/t

[seaotter]

9. The "Third Way" is the WRONG way!

[Jenny_92808]

66. +1

[Dem2]

13. I personally think the entire "third way" thing is

one of those things Hillary opponents key on without a lot of evidence. I like both candidates and in a perfect world prefer Bernie to Hillary, but I will support Hillary if she wins the primary without pause. Will I be called "Third Way" for being open to a Hillary presidency, in spite of my support for Bernie? From what I've read here, the answer is "probably".

[Art_from_Ark]

56. Here's something to get you started about the Third Way

There is plenty of evidence, if you want to look for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats

[Dem2]

62. I've seen those stupid links posted 100 times

How many times do I have to read them? It's laughable that one has to link to Wikipedia knowing that no real people here actually are such a person, because if they were, you wouldn't have to link to an off-site reference source. C'mon, please, cut it with this silly 3rd way bullshit, it just turns people off and appears like a circle-jerk and a method to look down one's nose at other Democrats one disagrees with.

[Art_from_Ark]

63. You just don't want to admit it

Like I said, there are PLENTY of references, not just Wiki.

Here's another one

http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Way-its-Critics/dp/0745624502

[Dem2]

64. Nobody cares about 3rd way

Well, except those using it as a cudgel.

Enjoy.

[Mbrow]

80. Just read The Nation for the last 30 years.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

28. The Clinton economic philosophy is rooted completely and blindly ...

in the failed trickle down Chicago school of thought.

Nothing she says or does indicates that she has any understanding or even knowledge of any other options. Two generations of economist and business men/women are infused with these destructive ideas. They heap scorn on dissenters like the church did when it was faced with the idea that the earth revolves around the sun. Forty years of declining prospects for the American people has done nothing to shake the unfailing worship of Chicago school philosophy.

One of the more insidious pillars of this philosophy is that unemployment is necessary. Let that sink in. Unemployment is necessary.

For me, supporting a system or supporting the advocates of a system that ensures many millions of people must scramble and struggle to survive is abhorrent.

Full employment, a high minimum wage and income security changes everything.

Everything.

And that is what this fight is about. Far too many of the comfortable among us fear change and they will blindly fight against the ideas that they do not understand or care about.

[Mnpaul]

61. Of course unemployment is necessary

How else are you going to drive down wages on non exportable jobs.

[RKP5637]

76. Very well said!!! n/t

[seaotter]

52. I prefer yellow dogs.

[GoneFishin]

60. Yep. But they know that only a chosen few benefit by those policies, and they can't admit that

they like having tax payer funded perks for the wealthy. Instead they make shit up.

[Kip Humphrey]

2. I'm happy if they simply state the truth, that Hillary is a 3rd-Way conservative Democrat, and that

they, by affiliation and fidelity, share that same characterization and political identification.

[Thinkingabout]

3. On some issues he may be progressive and others he fails his rules

As a progressive. A progressive would not have voted five times against the Brady Bill. A progressive does not vote to send nuclear waste on others.

[libtodeath]

18. Or voting for the Iraq war?

[Thinkingabout]

22. No voting five times against the Brady Bill, this is not progressive.

[libtodeath]

23. Nice non answer

Typical

[Thinkingabout]

26. Maybe it is not the answer you wanted but it is an answer.

[Jenny_92808]

57. Bernie voted against that

because he felt that gun shop owner's should not be held responsible if a gun is stolen and used for an evil use, the shop owner should not be held responsible if they sold the gun legally. Bernie is a very reasonable and fair minded guy!

[Thinkingabout]

59. The vote was not progressive, these votes also occurred after NRA donated money to defeat his

opponent, seems related to me.

[KMOD]

4. Senator Sander's platform is far too narrow and vague for me.

This liberal is supporting Hillary Clinton.

[Logical]

17. Lol, ok! Nt

[Jenny_92808]

58. my advice to you

stop voting republican.

[KMOD]

69. I don't vote republican.

I vote for Democrats.

[paleotn]

78. You sure about that?

30 years ago, Hillary would have made a fine, northeastern Republican.

[el_bryanto]

6. In fairness, they seem to focus on different issues than the Bernie Supporters

I personally am mostly concerned with reigning in corporate power and regulating wall street; to me Bernie is the clear choice. But if your main issue is preventing further police brutality against blacks or maintaining the rights of woman, I can see why some would go for Hillary. There's not that much difference on these issues, and what differences exist benefit Hillary as often as they do Bernie. Couple that with the concern that Bernie may not be able to beat a Republican, and you have a situation where supporting Hillary makes a lot of sense.

Obviously there are counters to these arguments on the Bernie side; but they aren't as cut and dried as the difference between them on Economic Issues.

Bryant

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. It's more excusable to be wrong than to be simply full of shit.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/266412-before-attacking-sanders-on-guns-clinton-was-annie

[TIME TO PANIC]

10. Many of them don't want a progressive.

I'm sure you've seen all the post by Hillary supporters that say, "Bernie supporters want free stuff" and "Bernie wants to raise taxes". They sound like republicans.

[Maedhros]

14. They are the Reagan Democrats that started this whole mess...[n/t]

[TIME TO PANIC]

15. They've been holding the Democratic party hostage for over 30 years now. n/t

[LAS14]

11. Bernie may be what a progressive...

... should be. But he's not what a president should be. A president has to be more nuanced. A president has to be grounded in more areas than economics. If this were France in the 18th century or the American colonies, then he'd be the one. But we're not at the point where we should start over instead of building on Obama's achievements.

[TIME TO PANIC]

16. Okay.

[tokenlib]

12. Any move to the progrssive left by Hillary and the DNC is illusory and deceptive...

Her "me too" progressive verbiage and lip service are an illusion to be dropped as soon as practical.

Bernie is the real thing, even as an independent he has been more of a progressive New Deal democrat, than all the "new Democrats" put together.

The Third Way is alive and well. When you see Clinton supporters pushing the theme that the DLC (i.e. Democrats for the Leisure Class) is dead and gone, they are blowing smoke in our faces.
Wall Street and the corporations will get most of what they want out of Hillary.

[uponit7771]

19. Again, at the root of the "revolution" is a sneering dislike for Obama... a progressive president...

... who even Sanders doesn't like.... well, until now right?

tia

[MohRokTah]

20. I'll never say that, even if he is nominated.

And that's one HUGE if.

I am firmly convinced Sanders is a complete phony.

[Logical]

24. LOL, I think America knows who the phony is. Look at the "trust" numbers. nt

[MohRokTah]

35. .

[Logical]

38. LOL, like you supporting Hillary? Bernie is trusted! Which I know pisses you off. nt

[MohRokTah]

40. .

[Logical]

42. LOL, and you have idiotic graphics! Wow nt

[LondonReign2]

25. Right, he's been putting on this phony act for over 50 years

Now that's being dedicated to your performance art.

God, what an idiot.

[MohRokTah]

37. That's my opinion and I am as entitled to my opinio about Sanders...

as you are to your opinion about Hillary.

Notice I did that without calling you a name?

[Logical]

39. Says the guy with 4 hides! LOL! nt

[LondonReign2]

74. Yes, and you've demonstrated exactly how much weight your opinion deserves

[el_bryanto]

49. What exactly is he being phony about? nt

[morningfog]

21. Hell, if they would just suck it up and ackowledge he is a contenter

that would be a step. They have no credibility when they act like he can't beat Hillary. Silly.

[Tarc]

27. I would respect Sanders supporters a lot more if they would just

develop the ability to disagree without being disagreeable.

[merrily]

29. Without stereotyping and insulting an entire group in a totally one-sided way, as does your post?

Yeah, I'm sure the millions of Bernie supporters are working on it. Let's hope the Hillary supporters are as well

[Tarc]

30. Just riffing on the premise of your OP, bud

Take it up with him.

[merrily]

31. Um, no. Yours was the only post on this thread that attacked the supporters of a

candidate. My OP? wth?

Why on earth would I take up the contents of your post with anyone but you? Talk about not taking responsibility!

And why on earth are you calling me bud?

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Perhaps you should take another look at the original OP title. eom

[merrily]

82. I did. Perhaps you should take another look.

I would respect Hillary supporters a lot more if they would just...........admit Bernie is what a real liberal/progressive president should be!

Maybe you think he is not electable, which is not true, but at least admit he is who progressives should want for president.

I think many know this, but will not just admit it!

Which insults about Hillary supporters do you see?

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. ...

WHOOSH ... eom

[merrily]

90. o.k. nt

[Tarc]

75. Um, no

Re-read. Post #1. Not hard.

[merrily]

84. See Reply 82.

It's amazing that you can't see the difference between saying millions of people cannot disagree without being disagreeable and what the OP posted about Hillary supporters, but that's your problem, not mine.

But you're right about this: avoiding false equivalencies should not really be that hard.

[Tarc]

86. Cool story, bro

[merrily]

87. Not only do you make false equivalencies, but you're so original, too!

I often wonder what motivates a poster who averages so few posts per year to post and I am often amazed.

[Cosmocat]

91. Jesus christ

did you read the OP?

[book_worm]

32. I would respect Bernie supporters a lot more if they would just

admit that just because you support Hillary doesn't mean your any less a Democrat or progressive than you are.

[StevieM]

33. So you don't respect people who disagree with you or who won't say that you are right?

I consider myself to be a liberal and I am supporting Hillary Clinton.

I don't have a problem with Senator Sanders. Like most Democratic voters I like both of our candidates, and I liked O'Malley too.

If we don't win the 2016 election then I assume that Elizabeth Warren will be our nominee in 2020. And I think most Democrats and liberals will be happy with her as the progressive standard bearer.

[Logical]

34. Hillary is better than any GOP candidate. But we can do much better. Bernie is liberalism! nt

[firebrand80]

36. Why am I not deserving of respect?

I happen think Hillary would make the better President of the two. Once the primary is over, the serious fight begins. I'm 100% behind the Democratic nominee whether it's Bernie, Hillary, or Kermit the Damn Frog.

[Logical]

43. I am too, but hope I don't have to settle for Hillary. I will vote for her but be disgusted. nt

[flamingdem]

41. I agree. I've been in the middle because I want to see the Obama agenda continued

for the most part, the good parts, and Hillary has the chops. Plus, I'd like to see a female president.

But, I've always loved Bernie.

When I see pro-Hillary people making up talking points against Bernie I know it's bullshit. His background is the proof that he's a real progressive. The race issue was mostly bullshit too. I understand the loyalty towards the Clintons but Bernie is inclusive and aware.

Yes, I do think Clinton supporters know Bernie is the real thing and they're being political, they want to win, and I forgive them for that.

[Texasgal]

45. I would respect

EVERYONE if they just stopped this massive BULLSHIT. Just agree to disagree..no reason for all this nasty drama!

UGH! This place has become a fucking cesspool!

[Logical]

46. Dedicated people who want their candidate. Lighten up. Happens on both sides. nt

[Texasgal]

47. You think I should lighten up?

REALLY?

This place is a fucking mess!

[Logical]

53. LOL, getting mad about being asked to lighten up? Wow, sensitive much. nt

[paleotn]

79. That's politics.

It's very messy, but usually works out in the end. No different than 2008. US politics has been full contact since the founding of the Republic.

[Nedsdag]

48. Good luck with that!

According to her supporters, she is a combination of Joan of Arc, Susan B. Anthony, Rosa Parks, and Oprah.

[Yog-Sothoth]

50. I will not respect Sanders supporters more...

...because they support a candidate who doesn't know what he's doing and espouses nonsensical economic and trade policies that would likely send our country into recession.

Sanders is not who progressives should want for president.

[Logical]

54. Stay corporate my friend. And try to help hillary get those "trust" numbers up. nt

[Yog-Sothoth]

68. I'm not your friend.

However having common sense doesn't equate to corporate and neither does corporate equate to something bad.

[Mnpaul]

67. Sanders supporters are rejecting the policies

that sent our country into a recession. We need policies that benefit the 99% instead of policies that benefit the 1%. Bernie has a proven record of opposing the policies that are damaging this country.

[mgmaggiemg]

51. I like him and I am for regulation btw (banks)

but I have a different way of looking at it in terms of who would be best in what position who is best nationally and who is best regionally....they are both liberal progressives....

[Jenny_92808]

65. Well said

completely agree!

[Buzz cook]

70. Yes Bernie is ideologically pure.

Or at least more so than the others running.

But purity is not everything.

I was fine with Bernie although I tended toward Clinton when he first announced. I didn't have anything against him as a candidate at that time.

But then came liberty university. He had the opportunity to address many of the problems of the right, from racism to voter suppression, a host of issues. What he did instead was gave the same stump speech he's depended on since he entered the race.

That in itself was disappointing, but forgivable.

What knocked me flat was his response to the two questions from the audience. What would you do to improve rights for black people and what is your position on abortion?

He didn't have an answer. With the first question he wandered around and finally went back to economic justice. The answer to the abortion question was just as vague.

These are two of the most important questions we have as liberals. I think Bernie is on the right side of those issues. But his inability to come up with a cogent response is a serious failure.
A man who has been in politics as long as Bernie has should have dealt with these subjects enough so that he should be able to make a straight forward statement on these issues.

Bernie was not prepared.

Then I watched the debates and while he didn't fail, once again his lack of preparation showed.
Bernie on more than one occasion had no answers to questions. He simply wasn't quick on his feet.

Now compare that to Clinton.

That's why Bernie's ideological purity isn't enough for me.

[ucrdem]

71. Bernie's shtick is bashing Dems. If you hate Barack and Hill, he's the square root of awesome. nt

[Logical]

72. Hmmmm, Hillary trust numbers must really worry you then. LOL!

[NanceGreggs]

73. I would respect Bernie supporters a lot more ...

... if they would stop throwing every Democrat who doesn’t support BS under the bus, if they would stop posting vile remarks on websites and the FaceBook pages of anyone who endorses Hillary, if they would stop calling people like John Lewis weak-minded, bought-and-paid-for sell-outs because they’ve chosen not to endorse Bernie, if they stopped insinuating that AAs who support Hillary are low-info voters and/or victims of Stockholm Syndrome, if they stopped pretending that they represent “The People” when they really only represent their own point of view, if they stopped labelling every Hillary supporter as a warmongering, status quo loving, corporatist who actually wants to see HRC plunge the nation into war, famine, pestilence and death.

I would have more respect for BS supporters if they demonstrated an ability to respond to any legitimate queries about Bernie and his campaign without resorting to a But what about HER?!?! screed in order to deflect attention away from Bernie and any questions raised about HIS statements, HIS actions, and HIS campaign tactics.

I would have more respect for BS supporters if they stopped posting links to RW sites, journalists, and pundits, or regurgitating RW smears against not only Hillary, but the Democratic Party, at every opportunity.

I would have more respect for BS supporters if they stopped portraying themselves as the official spokespersons of the 99%, while casting Hillary supporters as the lackeys of the 1% - along with not labelling anyone who endorses HRC as part of “The Establishment” that stands in the way of progress and change.

I would have more respect for BS supporters if they actually “supported” their candidate by discussing HIS achievements, instead of endlessly trying to diminish Hillary’s achievements, and those of the many, many Democrats who support her.

I would particularly have more respect for BS supporters if they didn’t so openly demonstrate their willingness to NOT vote for the Democratic nominee if it’s not Bernie, thereby also demonstrating their complete lack of regard for the welfare of their fellow citizens and the country - because, like petulant children, if things don't go their way, everyone else be damned for not giving them what they want.

Lastly, I would have undying respect for any BS supporters who were willing to denounce those who persist in posting vile, vitriol-laden, racist/sexist comments, instead of giving them a pass – or even a kick and a rec – just because they hold themselves out to be fellow BSers.

“Just admit Bernie is what a real liberal/progressive president should be! I think many know this, but will not just admit it!”

That statement is a classic example of people who themselves refuse to admit that anyone who sees things differently than they do, who hold opinions that differ with theirs, or who support a candidate other than their candidate-of-choice, are entitled to their own thoughts, their own ideas, and their own criteria for judging who they think would be the better president.

[betsuni]

81. +1 billion

[Bobbie Jo]

92. THIS. In its ENTIRETY.

You should make this an OP, but you know as well as I do that you would be trashed from here to Sunday.

...thus demonstrating a number of your points in real time.

Amen, Nance.

[RKP5637]

77. Bernie reminds me of what the democratic party used to be, for we the people, not what it is now. n/t

[Orsino]

85. Goddammit, DU.

Enough with the stupid sniping back and forth about nebulous "supporters."

Are we eight years old?

In a forum dedicated to the primaries, particular DU members' habits are insignificant.

[VulgarPoet]

88. I can respect a small handful of Hillary supporters.

Empowerer, for instance, I've had some enjoyable discourse with them before. The vast majority, though I gladly put on the /bye list because I really don't need to start developing ulcers at 22.