I admire the heroism of John Lewis' youth...he had dreams then...he's still great for what he did...

[Ken Burch]

I just don't understand why he has now essentially given up.

Why he is now apparently willing to settle for not much of anything.

Why he seems to believe now that no one should demand anything more.

None of that means I don't admire his willingness to risk his life all those years ago.

Just hard to understand why he no longer seems to think any major change is worth working for now.

[randys1]

1. God I wish we had an emoticon here for tone deafness

[Lucinda]

3. I'd like one for misrepresenting what people have said to support a narrative too!

[randys1]

5. MIsrepresenting? So many many POC havent complained about this behavour

Hmm, could have fooled me because I happen to know better

[Lucinda]

7. What? I agreed with yours and added one I want too.

[Ken Burch]

15. Are you saying that if Congressman Lewis supports the more conservative candidate

the less-committed candidate, nobody has the right to question it just because he IS Congressman Lewis?

I respect the man and always will...he's one of my long-time heroes...but it's legitimate to wonder why he has settled for so little on this.

Doesn't it ever puzzle you...even a litle?

[randys1]

24. Tone deafness refers to white people questioning the motives of non white people.

And on top of that expecting them to answer and then go with you on something.

Unless you are a POC questioning another POC and then by extension the other POC who support Lewis.

Then I have no comment on what you posted, at all.

Now how do I permanently have this copy and paste emoticon for the future...

[Ken Burch]

25. No one who is white can EVER question the choices of a POC politician?

POC politicians(as opposed to the POC community)are just politicians like all other politicians.

Why should nothing POC politicians do or say ever be subject to questioning by progressives who just happen to be of a different race?

Why should a POC politician making a conservative choice be any more off-limits for discussion than any other progressive politician making it?

I'm not even attacking the congressman. Just wondering why he made such a sad choice.

I've done the same thing with white politicians who've made less-progressive choices many, many times. We all have.

Politicians are just politicians. They must ALL be subject to questioning and open discussion, whoever they are.

[randys1]

27. Not about Lewis, it is about the extension to POC who stand with him who are

not supporting Bernie.

And I dont think you are being vicious or unfeeling I just think you dont perceive how it looks when white people pass judgment on POC in a situation like this.

And again, NOT about Lewis. Lewis doesnt matter here, what matters is his influence, this is not about him but that he has influence and those he has influence with dont need to be educated by any white people.

[Ken Burch]

29. I wasn't saying anything about other POC here. I wasn't passing judgment on POC as a group.

I never make comments about a whole group like that.

By the same token, all the "Bernie and his supporters don't care enough about fighting racism/Bernie is running an all-white campaign" threads need to stop.

Bernie has proven he cares and will fight as hard as anybody else and his supporters never deserved to be treated as if we were left-wing Klansmen or something. That was never a fair line of attack.

[Art_from_Ark]

35. So we can't question the motives of Condi Rice? Colin Powell?

Ben Carson? Harold Ford?

[randys1]

38. I never question the motives of someone who I cant possibly spend one minute

in the shoes of

I am on record saying that many times

[Art_from_Ark]

40. Well, I question the motives of politicians

I don't care what color they are, or what gender they are. I don't have to put myself in their shoes, they are the ones representing me, not vice versa.

[Live and Learn]

61. What? You have now usurped the term for your own self interest?

Sorry, but that term has been used for a long time and not just for the purposes you just claimed.

[Cheese Sandwich]

6. I'd like an emoticon for John Lewis applauding when Hillary smears Obama

[Ken Burch]

11. How so? I honor Congressman Lewis' history.

I just said it's sad that he seems to think that nothing much can be done anymore.

Why is it unacceptable to be saddened that he is supporting someone who doesn't support what he cares about?

[wildeyed]

19. This might work.

[randys1]

21. Perfect...

[Jarqui]

32. At least he is trying to understand it as am I

I think the desire to understand is sincere.

From your post below defining "tone deafness"
"Tone deafness refers to white people questioning the motives of non white people."

That's a strange answer to me. He's trying to understand why John Lewis supported Clinton. Quite frankly, so am I and well as the majority of the AAs. Is it so wrong to want to understand why somebody does something?

Nothing sinister or judgmental. The majority of AAs obviously see something differently. I'd like to know what it is.

It feels more like "We're not going to tell you. It a riddle and you have to figure it out."

I don't think it's tone deafness. We're all ears listening intently for answers that don't come or come very often.

I've been to the AA Forum s few times and have read several threads and do not feel much closer to understanding why the majority of AAs support Clinton. Yes, I saw a number of cracks about Sanders supporters linking stuff and starting thread to support Bernie that came off as insulting or whatever. But that's not Hillary or Bernie.

You just made a pitch here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511267191

If you're sincere there, and I think you are, at some point we've got to communicate.

If we're not getting your support this time, I think we need to understand why to try to better address it the second time around.

[randys1]

33. OK, first I am white. Second, you said this

It feels more like "We're not going to tell you. It a riddle and you have to figure it out."

This is drilling them for an answer, almost demanding one, can you see that?

They have answered by the way, at least to me they have as I am an open Bernie supporter in that forum and they have told me why they are more comfortable, those that are, with Hillary.

And some of them have told me they dont trust any white politician, and for good reason.

My pitch you linked to is to Bernie supporters who better quickly figure out how to mend these fences.

Let me put it this way, you and I if we are both white, cant in a million years understand what it is to be Black in America and we cant use our white privileged experiences and apply them to someone who lives an entirely different existence.

[Jarqui]

34. "This is drilling them for an answer, almost demanding one, can you see that? "

Yep. I'm a little frustrated. I'd like to know the answer or have a better understanding than I do. I've been looking for this answer or better understanding for months.

"They have answered by the way, at least to me they have as I am an open Bernie supporter in that forum and they have told me why they are more comfortable, those that are, with Hillary."

I'd love a link so I could read that exchange if you can find it.

"And some of them have told me they dont trust any white politician, and for good reason."

Pretty hard to blame them.

"My pitch you linked to is to Bernie supporters who better quickly figure out how to mend these fences. "

If we're going to mend those fences, don't you think that improving our understanding of how they feel might help us figure out "how to mend these fences"

"Let me put it this way, you and I if we are both white, cant in a million years understand what it is to be Black in America and we cant use our white privileged experiences and apply them to someone who lives an entirely different existence. "

I agree. But i'm not trying to do that.

Remember this?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88478467

"But the anger is real; it is powerful. And to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."

Barack Obama Speech on Race 2008

I'm not saying there is or is not anger here. I do not have a clue. But not trying to understand "only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding" I think Obama is right.

That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or the beauty shop or around the kitchen table."

Barack Obama Speech on Race 2008

Again, I don't know about the existence of anger. But this is our kitchen table - this forum. This is a place where we might narrow "the chasm of misunderstanding"

and that improves our chances of "mending fences"

Thank you very much for your response.

[randys1]

36. I cant look for the links of the answers, but it is along the lines of they know who Bill and

Hillary are, they dont know who Bernie is.

They have a history with Hillary that they dont have with Bernie, and more .

[Live and Learn]

60. Does 'tone deafness' now eauwal only what someone of a particular group wants to hear?

I ask because DUers seem to use it constantly whenever someone says anything (no matter how relevant or logical it may b)e that represents a view different from what the viewer, that sees themselves as a member of any group, may feel.

I look forward to the day when we all view ourselves as individuals and use the pronoun 'I' to relate how we feel.

[restorefreedom]

2. perhaps age tempers such passion for revolution and makes people settle.

that is the favorable rendering.

the unfavorable rendering is that he has become an establishment insider, and has closed the door behind him even though others have not yet escaped, for reasons and motives only he knows.

for now, i am going with door number one. but its still sad.

[musiclawyer]

28. Na

I'm going with #2. It's still sad. Everyone one of these establishment politicians who attacks Bernie evolves into thousands of votes for Bernie.

[restorefreedom]

31. true..they only make him stronger. nt

[MrWendel]

4. I don't think...

this is quite condescending enough. I mean doesn't he realize that the Bernie movement today is the same or better than the civil rights movement of his youth. Poor sad shell of a man. Yep, sounds about right.

[Ken Burch]

8. Wasn't saying that, either.

Just that we stand for something.

[MrWendel]

9. And he stands...

for nothing. If only he was like you, his accomplishments might mean something again. I think he owes all of us an apology and to repent for his sins.

[Ken Burch]

13. No...that HRC stands for nothing.

How do you explain that he is settling for her, when her history has been so weak on anti-oppression issues?

I could understand him staying neutral or supporting a specifically AA candidate running to keep anti-racism issues at the forefront, but what is a HRC endorsement but a belief that nothing much can be done?

[MrWendel]

42. Yeah...

he's sooooo lost. If only a real civil rights hero came along to save him like BERNIE!!!!!!!!!!! I mean your right. He's just given up, he is soooooo pathetic. Thank you Ken, for showing him the way. I hope John is on DU, so he can ask Bernie for forgiveness. Once he "Feels The Bern", he might be lucky to be half the man Bernie is. But as it stands right now, he is nowhere near as Heroic as Bernie and his supports. HOW DARE HE THINK FOR HIMSELF!!!

[Ken Burch]

49. This isn't about me or about any belief that Bernie is superior to John Lewis.

Not everyone is driven by ego or self-aggrandizement.

Staying neutral would have made sense.

Encouraging a POC candidate to run to keep anti-racism on top of the agenda would have made sense.

But endorsing the most conservative Dem in the race?

It's like when he said he'd like to see Sam Nunn as the Dem nominee, back in '84 and '88(he said it on tv, even).

[MrWendel]

53. Who...

gave you the right to decide who is fit to be Black and who isn't? Who gave you the right to decide who is fit to be a liberal and who isn't? He has done more than you or me in his life than we could hope to do in 10 lifetimes. And you want to lecture him on racism? You say you admire his heroism but everything else you say seems to contradict that at the same time.

[Ken Burch]

54. I'm not trying to decide who is fit to be anything and you know it. n/t.

[MrWendel]

57. Actually...

you are. If there was an ultimate example of being condescending, people just need to see this thread you made. Maybe if the man had messier hair, messed up teeth, called everyone brotha, and called Obama an Uncle Tom maybe, just maybe he might be the one of the good ones.

[Ken Burch]

58. Nothing I posted disparaged POC at all.

And the polls now show POC allegiances are shifting.

I stand with Harry Belafonte...an equal to John Lewis in the pantheon of liberation.

[MrWendel]

59. Does...

Harry Belafonte (One of my favorite entertainers of all time) have passion,fire and not a shell of what he once was because he feels the burn? And at the very least post a poll.

[KMOD]

10. I am 100% positive

that Congressman Lewis has a better grasp on what still needs to be accomplished and addressed, than you do.

[Ken Burch]

12. He supports the candidate who doesn't care about changing things, though.

He has the right to do that. And people can respect him but still wonder about this.

Why shouldn't we see the HRC endorsement as a conclusion that the fight against racism is lost?

Incrementalists don't care about ending oppression.

[KMOD]

14. Because he knows that she does care,

and that she will address issues that he cares about.

[Ken Burch]

17. She has never been better on this than the other Dem candidates, though.

And she still hasn't apologized for helping form the Democratic Leadership Council, a group that was created solely to crush the Rainbow Coalition and make POC powerless within the Democratic Party.

[KMOD]

18. I suggest you look up Adaou Diallo

and get back to me.

[Ken Burch]

22. Did you mean Amadou Diallo, murdered by the NYPD?

HRC didn't do anything on that any other establishment Dem didn't do.

And before that event, she had spent years pushing for the Dems to be "law and order", which meant pushing for the Dems to look the other way on police brutality.

[KMOD]

23. yes.

New York Senatorial Candidate Hillary Clinton Makes Diallo Case a Campaign Issue
Aired March 5, 2000 - 6:16 p.m. ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDRIA HALL, CNN ANCHOR: With the Amadou Diallo case still fresh in the minds of New Yorkers, senatorial candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton is making it a campaign issue. She says city leaders are ignoring community pleas for better race relations with the police department.

CNN's Frank Buckley has more on that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary Clinton chose a church with a multi-ethnic congregation to issue her most pointed comments to date on the Amadou Diallo case.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK SEN. CANDIDATE: It has shaken many of us to our very core.

BUCKLEY: Diallo was the unarmed African immigrant shot to death by police who said they thought a wallet he was holding was a gun. The officers, acquitted of criminal charges in the case last month. Mrs. Clinton saying many minorities in New York believe he was killed because of his race.

CLINTON: And they do believe that if Amadou had been a young white man in an all-white neighborhood he would still be alive.

BUCKLEY: Mrs. Clinton recognized police officers for risking their lives and credited them with bringing down crime rates, but she also acknowledged the complaints of minority men that police unnecessarily single them out based on race.

CLINTON: Yet the leadership in this city refuses to reach out, to work with a community that is in pain, to even acknowledge that there is a problem.

BUCKLEY: Mrs. Clinton said it was time for the city to find what she called wisdom in this tragedy, promoting, among other things, a program that encourages police officers to live in the neighborhoods they patrol.

Mrs. Clinton's comments regarding Diallo's race echoing similar comments from the president on the case on Friday, prompting her political opponent, New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, to suggest the Clintons are teaming up to politicize the shooting.

MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK CITY: All New Yorkers can see that this is a political tactic, really in an interesting the kind of way the Clintons play politics. In the name of uniting, what they are really trying to do is divide, which is kind of sad.

BUCKLEY: Both candidates were seeking support, meanwhile, from New York's Irish-American community, appearing at separate, early St. Patrick's Day parades in different boroughs of the city.

(on camera): The atmosphere at the parades a stark contrast to the stern message delivered earlier here at this church by Mrs. Clinton, a direct challenge to Rudy Giuliani on his relations with minorities, it's an issue Mrs. Clinton hopes will resonate with voters between now and November.

Frank Buckley, CNN, New York.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/05/wv.02.html

ALBANY — Hillary Rodham Clinton tainted the Amadou Diallo jury by calling the four cops on trial murderers, a law-enforcement group charged yesterday at a protest rally.

The Coalition for a Fair Trial — a loose-knit group of about 10 organizations — gathered a block from the State Supreme Court to denounce the first lady for a “reckless” remark she made last month at the Harlem headquarters of the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Clinton referred to the killing of the unarmed Diallo — who was gunned down in a fusillade of 41 police bullets — as a “tragic murder.”

http://nypost.com/2000/02/03/men-in-blue-say-hillarys-poisoned-the-well/

[SheenaR]

37. Hillary using a murder of a POC a campaign issue?

Pretty standard Clinton tactic. Most of us just can see through it.

[KMOD]

39. That's a pretty impressive

Rudy Giuliani imitation you just did.

She correctly called it murder. She was attacked quite heavily for it.

Note that this was 14 years before the birth of the Black Lives Matter Movement.

[bigtree]

46. I think AG Lynch prosecuted that case

[KMOD]

47. She very well may have.

The timeline would fit. I don't recall, I'll have to look it up.

I know she prosecuted the Abner Louima case.

[MrWendel]

43. You mean like...

Erica Garner? Right?

[NanceGreggs]

16. Again I am in awe of your ability ...

... to know any individual's thoughts, feelings, and beliefs. It's an amazing talent.

What I think you really mean to say, however, is: Anyone who disagrees with MY choice of candidate has given up, is willing to settle for nothing much, thinks that no one should ever demand more, and doesn't think change is worth working for.

You could just stick with saying what you really mean, instead of pretending to read people's minds.

And so the diminishing of John Lewis' character, integrity, and ability to make a well-reasoned decision about who he supports continues unabated. Nice.

[Ken Burch]

20. You are supporting the candidate who has never ever listened to people to her left in the past

(as her treatment of the BLM reps as recorded on video proves).

She never listened to the AA community as First Lady or in the Senate.

And she helped form the Democratic Leadership Council, a group that existed solely to make AA people, labor, activists, and the poor totally powerless and irrelevent within the Democratic Party.

There has never been a time in any past election in which the needs of the AA community were best served by the Democratic Party nominating the least-progressive candidate in the presidential primaries. That's just history, Nance.

If you want to do that, that's your call and nobody can stop you.

John Lewis is one of my heroes.

Endorsing HRC is a step back for him, a settling for less.

It's always sad when someone you admire does that.

And it never leads to victory for the greater good.

And OK, Nance, you're a progressive. It's just that it's naturally puzzling when progressives think the less-progressive candidate will be the better choice than the more-progressive one, and it's especially puzzling when any of you think the less-progressive candidate will ever respond to what you ask after you help get them elected.

It pretty much never works that way.

[NanceGreggs]

41. As expected ...

... the classic But what about HER?!?! response arrives right on schedule.

As I said in my previous reply, and in other discussions we've had of late, you seem to believe that your judgment supersedes everyone else's.

In your OP, you have - through some kind of mind-reading ability you seem to think you possess - determined that John Lewis has given up, is willing to settle for not much of anything, believes that no one should demand anything more, and thinks that change isn't worth working for.

Has John Lewis made any statements to that effect? No. It's what YOU'VE decided he's thinking, feeling, believing - all because he's endorsed HRC rather than BS.

Do you ever think about how incredibly arrogant it is to insist that anyone who doesn't agree with YOUR choice of candidate is automatically to be seen as weak, or a sellout, or self-serving, or bought-and-paid-for - or any and all of the other things HRC supporters/endorsers are labelled as on a daily basis?

When you find it necessary to diminish the character of someone like John Lewis in order to dismiss his choice of candidate as being based on his weakness of character, you're barking up the wrong tree - and it's a tree that BS supporters have been barking up since last April.

There isn't a Democrat who hasn't been maligned, demeaned, insulted, or had their mental capacity and/or integrity questioned simply because they support HRC - here on DU, on FB, and on other political websites - by BS supporters. If the only way BSers can "support" Bernie is to throw anyone who doesn't support him under that proverbial bus, it doesn't speak well of their own character, no less the character of the man they claim to be the better choice.

[wildeyed]

26. Doesn't look like a man who has given up to me.

You are just salty that he endorsed Clinton.

[zappaman]

44. oooh

[bigtree]

45. I've had enough of this kind of bullshit

...a campaign which elevates and defends a vulgar rapper and questions the integrity of this American icon.

Fuck that.

[Empowerer]

48. ^^^This

[Armstead]

50. The campaign isn't questioning -- Supporters are. And rightly so.

Just because some is justifiably heroic and great doesn't mean they can't screw up, or say or do things that are less than admirable. They should not get a free pass.

He said things that some of us feel are inappropriate. He's a grown up. If he's going to say things like that, he has to accept that come people aren't going to like it.

Sorry.

[bigtree]

51. have at it

...it defines the Sanders 'supporters' campaign.

[Ken Burch]

56. It defines ANY campaign.

Everybody's choices are fair game.

[Starry Messenger]

62. Oh yes.

[Nyan]

52. He's a corporate democrat just like many others, as simple as that.

Aside from his admirable bio when it comes to civil rights, of course.
CBC PAC members amount to less than dozen members among 40+ CBC members in total. Why do you think he's one of them? CBC PAC that endorsed Hillary has 7 lobbyists along with John Lewis.
It's pretty clear to me that he's one of the corporate democrats. And I don't mean to be necessarily disparaging when I say that. Black politicians' ideological spectrum is wide just as much as white politicians'.

[senz]

55. I too am sorry to see what has happened to him

but we don't know what went on behind the scenes.