2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumEvery time I look at that logo I see a big RED arrow pointing to the RIGHT.
If it was a traffic sign it would literally be telling us all to turn to the Right.
The red is on top of the blue, dominating it and vaguely suggesting penetration as it pushes out the right side of the "H".
In advertising this is called a superliminal which in contrast to subliminals, is an image so obvious that it goes unnoticed by most. I thought I was over thinking this but others in the design field noticed it right away.
...
I think the Hillary logo is really saying nothing, said Scott Thomas, the design director for Barack Obamas 2008 presidential campaign and who later worked on the Whitehouse.gov websites redesign. Its just a red arrow moving to the right.
...
In the New Yorker, a daily cartoon published shortly after the Clinton launch depicted two people looking at a campaign poster with the H logo and this caption: Im just not entirely sure a big red arrow pointing right is the best logo for a Democratic candidate, is all.
Obamas O was handled with a certain amount of nuance and elegance and Hillarys H has none of that nuance or elegance, said Steven Heller, a design critic and former art director at The New York Times. The Clinton logo, he added, looks like shes overtly trying to avoid using her last name. Her name is Hillary. We dont know her as Ms. H, he said.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/design-experts-trash-hillary-clintons-new-logo-117100#ixzz40ZA8r6uD
seaotter
(576 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Oh, wait a minute . . . never mind
amborin
(16,631 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Donkees
(31,420 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)"In your guts you know he's nuts."
k8conant
(3,030 posts)That's what we all said back in 1964.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)Herself, money and corporate interests
oldtime dfl_er
(6,931 posts)have the arrow pointing up, could they? that would make the "penetration" image even worse. Or funnier.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)or does it changes colors depending on circumstances????
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)earthshine
(1,642 posts)Why did she choose a rightward pointing arrow?
She could have had it face to the left.
TBF
(32,067 posts)morning here in TX. So apparently in that setting it is a blue sign. Other times we see blue & red. I guess it depends upon who she is trying to impress.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)Please.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and the deftly light touch of a German jazz band. It makes you wonder.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Feel free to use everywhere!
cali
(114,904 posts)I thought Bernie and his supporters are authoritarians
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It is the same reason Sanders gets away with what he does when it comes to his base. Personally, I would be embarrassed to claim confusion over this.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)It is a terrible logo for a Democrat and part of a larger campaign that continues to alienate many on the Left by the day.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)This is simply too deep for me.
Rocky the Leprechaun
(222 posts)^N^C^T^R^A^V^E^L^E^R
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)I would hate for Bernie to be pulling the wool over my eyes. Could you enlighten me and I'm sure others too, as to what Bernie is getting away with doing?
brush
(53,791 posts)IMO most people see it that way.
You're over thinking it.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)"Hospital, to the right"
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)exactly what it looks like.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)it sure does look like a hospital sign.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.123rf.com/photo_13879797_an-american-road-sign-isolated-on-white-and-a-capital-h-hospital-direction-sign.html&h=1251&w=1300&tbnid=M3A0syQQEzcx5M:&docid=ZDXi-YS53WbeEM&ei=-WbGVqbXO87YjwPEkIDoCg&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjmt6-GzoLLAhVO7GMKHUQIAK0QMwhYKBswGw
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)What folks of means get around in - like Trump.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)I agree that the intention of the logo was to communicate the idea of progressive or moving forward. It spawned a lot of similar reaction when it was introduced so perhaps Clinton's agency under thought it ?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)spin on!
brush
(53,791 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)does not compute.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)War criminals, banksters, who cares? Let's move forward.
Politics has been described as left vs. right & her campaign chooses a logo with a right pointing arrow? Someone wasn't thinking when they made this choice.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Subliminal messaging?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)circle with arrow inside pointing to the right.
It was posted elsewhere on DU yesterday
merrily
(45,251 posts)supporters of Sanders. Lots of jokes and emoticons in posts.
Good times.
Another issue: it's not red white and blue, just red and blue. To me, that's about politicians, not about the nation. And, in my view, it could not be more of a corporate logo. It's seems to be marketing a corporate product, not a person.
brush
(53,791 posts)I know that's designer-speak but I have to say, the designer knew what he/she was doing.
And ridicule it all you want, it's effective with the arrow pointing forward (as we read that way) and everyone knows it's the Clinton campaign logo.
Repetition, repetition, repetition. That's what does it.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Besides, if the only thing that makes it patriotic, rather than political, is what is NOT present in the logo itself, that says a lot.
It's funny you saw my comments about the logo as "ridicule." This is what all my prior post said about the logo.
Another issue: it's not red white and blue, just red and blue. To me, that's about politicians, not about the nation. And, in my view, it could not be more of a corporate logo. It's seems to be marketing a corporate product, not a person.
Not seeing any ridicule, just describing the logo and what it says to me.
"it's effective" by what standard?
"everyone knows it's the Clinton campaign logo." First, I wouldn't bet on that. Second, everyone would know it was her logo if it contained her name, too.
"Repetition, repetition, repetition. That's what does it." Yes, that is how corporations brand, BUT, repetition is an issue separate from the design itself.
The corporate slickness and lack of humanity were big mistakes IMO, as was the red arrow pointing to the right, as was the echo of the Goldwater arrow.
brush
(53,791 posts)The designer knew that would be the case. Look at this web site, and millions of others. White is the background color that offers the most contrast.
It's one of the things considered as one solves the design problem of creating a logo for a client.
As far as repetition, you apparently have no design background as contrast, repetition and positive as well as negative space are all principles of design, four of several, that designers used to create a successful solution.
And btw, we wouldn't be talking about it if everyone didn't know it was Clinton campaign logo.
merrily
(45,251 posts)
As far as repetition, you apparently have no design background as contrast, repetition and positive as well as negative space are all principles of design, three of several, that designers used to create a successful solution.
Whether I have design background is irrelevant to a political logo--and to a message board, for that matter. Either what you or I post is correct or it isn't. (You're also attempting to use a logical fallacy, but never mind that for now.)
What a political logo says to all people is the test for how good the design is, not what it says to professional designers.
As far as repetition of a logo that goes to how often it is used, not to the design itself. I never said repeating was not part of branding. To the contrary, I said it was.
No design, in and of itself, guaranties repetition. I don't know why you seem to conflate the two, especially after my prior post pointed out they were different issues. However, if you can point out to me how an H with an arrow, in and of itself, guaranties repeated use of the logo, I will reconsider.
My prior post clearly stated my opinion on what a politician's logo says when the only thing it depends upon to make it patriotic is what is not there. I bet there are many campaign buttons and tables out there as I type that do not have a white background.
And btw, we wouldn't be talking about it if everyone didn't know it was Clinton campaign logo.
We talk about it because this is a Democratic political message board during a Democratic Primary and Hillary is a Democrat. If you think every American knows everything about political things that we do, maybe you didn't watch Jaywalking? Most people he stopped couldn't name the Vice President, let alone describe the logo on his campaign button. Hell, I don't know what Cruz's campaign logo is and I AM on a political message board.
Hillary's logo says certain things to certain people. I've said what it says to me, which is not very different from what most people on this board said about it. I doubt you and I are going to agree and I don't see the point in another round of this. Last word is yours, if you want it.
brush
(53,791 posts)so whether it is a successful solution for the designer's client doesn't matter to you.
The designer pleased his/her client. You don't have to like it but you weren't the one paying the money.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)leaving a logo open to interpretation by the viewer?
It just seems to me to be sloppy designing if I can see something that was not intended.
From my very first sight what I saw was an arrow pointing to the right, not forward. But my perception may be skewed because I'm left handed?
brush
(53,791 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)
everyone would say it's pointing backwards.
Let's face it, many Bernie supporters want that logo to be a fail.
I'm a Bernie supporter but I as a designer, I see the arrow pointing forward in the direction that we read in this country. Many want to emphasize it as pointing to the right because of their dislike of Hillary.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)But in case you misunderstood here it is again.
I'm curious, as a designer how do you feel about leaving a logo open to interpretation by the viewer?
It just seems to me to be sloppy designing if I can see something that was not intended.
brush
(53,791 posts)everyone would say it was backwards.
I see it as going forward, you see if as going right.
That's your interpretation. Fine.
But God!, it's not a huge deal. It's a campaign logo that's been out for several months.
It's not even new. Time to move on.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)smiley
(1,432 posts)if anyone at all interprets the arrow moving to the right. It doesn't matter what they wanted the logo to symbolize. It fails on so many levels, that I have to believe whoever created it and pitched it was playing a dirty trick on the Clinton campaign.
That's my professional opinion btw.
brush
(53,791 posts)IMO though, that arrow is pointing forward as that is the way we read in this country.
That's my professional opinion.
It might be a failure to you, an apparent Sanders' supporter whose opinion is apparently colored by that fact, but not to the client who paid for it, or the designer who pleased their client.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)The message isn't just for them now ...or is it ?
smiley
(1,432 posts)it also conveys moving to the right. Which is so far from what a progressive candidate should be conveying. IMO as a professional designer and art director, this would immediately shelve this logo concept.
Either Hillary, her campaign, and the creators of this logo are complete idiots and never correlated how this logo might be perceived, or they were absolutely okay with the knowledge that this logo might convey a message contrary to what they intended.
Unless of course their idea of moving forward really is to move to the country further to the right. Then this logo signifies their political aspirations perfectly.
If it conveys anything contrary to what they intended it's a logo fail. Period.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)presidency helped solidify the Third Way in American Politics
olddots
(10,237 posts)Hillary wants to move ahead into a plutocratic fuedal state glossed over by simplistic images of shallow fairytales .
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)my grandson asked the question - red pointing right
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)doesn't it?
BklnDem75
(2,918 posts)I suppose ammo is ammo regardless of where we have to go to find it.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)mariawr
(348 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)brooklynite
(94,600 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)If one sees those as pathways then we standing nearly perpendicular to them.
The Obama logo has a balance and subtlety that is lacking in the HRC logo. It has the shape of the Tao symbol, the peace sign, the Earth itself (and Pepsi's logo). Also more feminine than the HRC logo as it suggests fertile fields, round and self contained like a womb in contrast to the traditional male symbol's thrusting arrow.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)original chosen design, with comments from design group...
Originally the stripes were kind of symmetrically expressed across the horizon, and as we went into final refinements we felt that giving it a little bit more dimension, a little bit more motion, ways to enter into it a little bit more for the viewer was a better way to go.
Interesting to see other things they discussed
http://www.logodesignlove.com/obama-08-logo-design-options
mcar
(42,334 posts)Where does the time go? Next up, Goldwater Girl, right? But let's just be sure to focus on the issues, now.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)That's rare these days.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)non DLC Third Way Democrats" on it, and people will still think she fart rainbows, shit skittles and burps butterflies.
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)Blue has always been for Democrats, Red for Republicans...the fact its a Red Arrow pointing to the Right and as you said, over the BLUE...well, make your own conclusions.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)Resistance is not futile!
dchill
(38,505 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Pink Freud
yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Even it is displayed by a politician not known for her honesty.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... as one of those important issues that Bernie supporters keep saying they want to discuss.
Can a rehash of the length of Hill's bathroom breaks at debates, or her wardrobe choices be far behind?
I don't mean to make light of these important issues - because we'll never know how many millions of voters are basing their candidate-of-choice on campaign logos.
TBF
(32,067 posts)to discuss the logo. Because that is not what is done in the advertising world.
You're an excellent writer, Nance, but not even you can believe that.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... I, like millions of other voters, will not be voting for the candidate who has what I think is the better logo.
DrBulldog
(841 posts). . those morons BELIEVE HER!
Zorra
(27,670 posts)SciDude
(79 posts)Turn this way to get fucked by the oligarchs...
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Skittles
(153,169 posts)it looks like pandering to all sides
jalan48
(13,870 posts)Why would Wall Street corporations and financiers want to pay more taxes to support social programs that would benefit the majority of Americans? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the answer.
kjones
(1,053 posts)yourout
(7,531 posts)It's kind of nice that way.
George II
(67,782 posts)AllyCat
(16,192 posts)Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)[img][/img]
DebbieCDC
(2,543 posts)See the infamous Goldwater button. 'Nuff said.
Skeezer the Kat
(41 posts)Everytime I see that Bernie poster being touted in another thread ("Not me! Us!" and the silhouette of him with an upraised right fist) I immediately think of the standard commie rallying cry. Of course, our rightie friends won't be astute enough to see that as well nor attempt to exploit it as such, I'm sure.
So there's that. Are ya'll trying to lose this election or what exactly with this nonsense?
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Yes Sanders is going to be called a communist and already has been. They called Obama far worse and still do. Didn't stop Obama.
Things are contentious between the two campaigns right now but it's good for us to get all the cards on the table now and field the candidate most able to win in November.
Bill Clinton says "Every time they attack you it gives you a chance to get your message out" and he is right. We should welcome attacks, especially when they present the chance to improve and clarify our message.
Skeezer the Kat
(41 posts)Agreed. But at the end of the day I think it unwise to hand the opposition the ammo they'll undoubtedly bring to bear on us. Also agreed?
And 'Thank you' for the welcoming!
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)The disadvantage for Clinton right now is that she is in a two-front war, attacked from the Left and Right. Sanders is only attacking from the Left so if Clinton becomes the nominee none of Sanders stuff is re-usable by the Right. If anything Sanders is making Clinton look more centrist.
I don't think Clinton's logo is going to be an issue in November but to your larger point, I want every bad thing about Bernie and every bad thing about Clinton on the table right now. Whichever of the two has the least vulnerabilities should be the nominee.
I don't agree or disagree. I think there is no real ammo that the opposition doesn't already have access to and trial by fire is the best way to improve our chances in November.
Skeezer the Kat
(41 posts)And if Bernie doesn't carry the South (being from the South and knowing the mindset I'd dare say that's the end result you can anticipate) and Hillary becomes the candidate, you think its wise to have already flung as much poo as possible at her before she squares off with Ted Cruz or, God forbid, T. Rump in the GE?
Geez. Classic dumbass move that.
Don't get me wrong...I respect your enthusiasm for your own candidate and encourage you to show it. But lets not unwittingly try to win a battle and ultimately lose the war here. I'm neither a Hillary nor a Bernie fan at this point. I am simply a passionate believer that the GOP has no candidate worthy of occupying the Oval Office. So whomever is the Dem candidate will ultimately get my vote. Period.
I prefer a stance right now that leaves my option to support the ultimate Dem candidate open with no regret nor need for apology.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)you are worried about. There is no new poo for her and none of them are going to be saying she isn't far enough to the Left.
I was born in the South and expect Bernie would lose many states there but I don't see HRC doing better.
...time for this Yankee to get some sleep... again welcome to DU and I hope you will continue to share your views and insights here!
Skeezer the Kat
(41 posts)May flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)how much more glaring can her truth be? thanks, greatgazoo.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)I guess we can take our honesty from her where we can get it.