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GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 07:58 PM Feb 2016

Every time I look at that logo I see a big RED arrow pointing to the RIGHT.

If it was a traffic sign it would literally be telling us all to turn to the Right.

The red is on top of the blue, dominating it and vaguely suggesting penetration as it pushes out the right side of the "H".

In advertising this is called a superliminal which in contrast to subliminals, is an image so obvious that it goes unnoticed by most. I thought I was over thinking this but others in the design field noticed it right away.




Some high-minded critics say it’s all wrong. The arrow’s direction and its Republican-minded red color, for starters, has raised alarm that she’s signalling an imminent political shift to the right.
...
“I think the Hillary logo is really saying nothing,” said Scott Thomas, the design director for Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign and who later worked on the Whitehouse.gov website’s redesign. “It’s just a red arrow moving to the right.”
...
In the New Yorker, a daily cartoon published shortly after the Clinton launch depicted two people looking at a campaign poster with the ‘H’ logo and this caption: “I’m just not entirely sure a big red arrow pointing right is the best logo for a Democratic candidate, is all.”

“Obama’s ‘O’ was handled with a certain amount of nuance and elegance and Hillary’s ‘H’ has none of that nuance or elegance,” said Steven Heller, a design critic and former art director at The New York Times. The Clinton logo, he added, looks like she’s overtly trying to avoid using her last name. “Her name is Hillary. We don’t know her as Ms. H,” he said.


http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/design-experts-trash-hillary-clintons-new-logo-117100#ixzz40ZA8r6uD



115 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Every time I look at that logo I see a big RED arrow pointing to the RIGHT. (Original Post) GreatGazoo Feb 2016 OP
That's the "third" way. seaotter Feb 2016 #1
Did they give credit to the elementary kid who won their school's campaign logo design contest? nt TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #113
Hey, It worked for Goldwater nichomachus Feb 2016 #2
that's great! amborin Feb 2016 #3
And by coincidence so did Clinton. GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #11
LOL n/t nichomachus Feb 2016 #13
That deserves a genuine Pinkie Pie rimshot hifiguy Feb 2016 #15
Goldwater, Kissinger...what's her deal with these reactionary padres? nashville_brook Feb 2016 #16
"In your heart you know he's right" - Barry Goldwater slogan Donkees Feb 2016 #51
And the counter-slogan was nichomachus Feb 2016 #58
...far right. k8conant Feb 2016 #104
Well, it shows off who HRC owes her allegiance to and who she thinks is important. GoneOffShore Feb 2016 #96
they couldnt very well oldtime dfl_er Feb 2016 #4
This could have worked just as well or maybe even better than the original. Unknown Beatle Feb 2016 #90
Isn't blue now UglyGreed Feb 2016 #5
Well, it sure does spin a lot depending on the audience. hifiguy Feb 2016 #8
. UglyGreed Feb 2016 #12
LOL. Great graphic. earthshine Feb 2016 #61
I saw blue signs outside the early voting location this TBF Feb 2016 #82
How original. Control-Z Feb 2016 #6
A campaign that has the subtlety of a communal toilet hifiguy Feb 2016 #7
ermagherd! nashville_brook Feb 2016 #9
I love the turd way image in your sig line! lol nt m-lekktor Feb 2016 #114
I swiped it from another DU Bernie supporter. hifiguy Feb 2016 #115
It's authoritarian looking cali Feb 2016 #10
No way UglyGreed Feb 2016 #14
I love how this confuses a certain group. NCTraveler Feb 2016 #17
Not claiming confusion. GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #21
I can't find a way to to there. NCTraveler Feb 2016 #23
Try this on for size... Rocky the Leprechaun Feb 2016 #26
Holy crap, for a second there I thought I was looking at a Tekken combo input. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #109
Maybe you could help me out. A Simple Game Feb 2016 #49
Or it could be read as going forward since we read that way brush Feb 2016 #18
That's exactly what it is KingFlorez Feb 2016 #19
It looks more like a highway sign Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #22
LOL gyroscope Feb 2016 #25
Boom. hifiguy Feb 2016 #30
Now that you mention it, Jenny_92808 Feb 2016 #34
Helipad Plucketeer Feb 2016 #70
The arrow could have been blue and it could have stayed inside the "H" GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #24
right is not forward noiretextatique Feb 2016 #100
Well, if you turn the arrow the other way, everyone would say it's backwards brush Feb 2016 #105
non-sequitur noiretextatique Feb 2016 #107
Moving forward, looking forward, it's all the same. CrispyQ Feb 2016 #108
That is so funny you said that. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw it. jillan Feb 2016 #20
it was Goldwater's image first. grasswire Feb 2016 #27
I don't know how many DUers are in design, but the day that logo came out was a fun day here for merrily Feb 2016 #28
It is red, white and blue. The white being the negative space between the verticals of the H. brush Feb 2016 #36
Nope. The logo is red and blue. there is no guaranty it will always appear on a white backgound. merrily Feb 2016 #39
I disagree. 99% of the time that logo is on a white background. brush Feb 2016 #44
Where to begin? merrily Feb 2016 #47
Your views of the Clinton logo are so obviously colored by your preference for Bernie brush Feb 2016 #62
I'm curious, as a designer how do you feel about A Simple Game Feb 2016 #65
A simple answer. If the arrow was pointing the other way . . . brush Feb 2016 #72
That's OK I never expected you to answer my question. A Simple Game Feb 2016 #91
And I'll answer again, if it was pointing the other way . . . brush Feb 2016 #106
Not a big deal? Yeah, it's not like Hillary really wants to be President. n/t A Simple Game Feb 2016 #111
it's a logo fail..... smiley Feb 2016 #55
That's one way of looking at it. brush Feb 2016 #66
Who cares what a bunch of professionals think ? TheFarS1de Feb 2016 #92
I agree the logo conveys moving forward, but... smiley Feb 2016 #112
Clinton Incorporated. Fuddnik Feb 2016 #74
A candidate who's all that and a bag of chips. Frito Lay in 2016! er, I mean, Hillary Clinton. merrily Feb 2016 #77
Logogate again? Cali_Democrat Feb 2016 #29
lol... it is Goldwateresque and it does point to the right... and the 1st two terms of the Clinton berniepdx420 Feb 2016 #31
from a design veiwpoint arrows point to the right , it signifies moving ahead olddots Feb 2016 #32
well zappaman Feb 2016 #33
A few weeks ago Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2016 #35
Seen this one? PonyUp Feb 2016 #37
That cuts right to the crux of the biscuit, hifiguy Feb 2016 #40
Americans for Limited Government... BklnDem75 Feb 2016 #48
A cartoon is just a cartoon. nt PonyUp Feb 2016 #94
+1000 eom noiretextatique Feb 2016 #103
Why, yes. That is exactly what she represents. Plain as day. nt mariawr Feb 2016 #38
An original Goldwater pin (posted above, here is a different image) Juicy_Bellows Feb 2016 #41
Which direction is the road in the Obama logo heading off to? brooklynite Feb 2016 #42
it's much more ambiguous GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #53
link regarding the logo design tomm2thumbs Feb 2016 #68
Gosh is it time for a logo OP again? mcar Feb 2016 #43
We should all applaud Hillary--this is truth in advertising. BillZBubb Feb 2016 #45
Her campaign logo could be a giant middle finger with the words " to progressives, liberals and Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #46
Ya know color is important too yuiyoshida Feb 2016 #50
Trying to make conservadems out of us. ozone_man Feb 2016 #52
It's Subliminal Freudian Slip. dchill Feb 2016 #54
Freud wore a slip? yuiyoshida Feb 2016 #59
A pink one in his band. Fuddnik Feb 2016 #78
Roflmao yuiyoshida Feb 2016 #87
Prefer: Liberalagogo Feb 2016 #56
They're overlooking the honesty displayed in an arrow pointing to the right as a political statement Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #57
I'm glad this topic keeps resurfacing ... NanceGreggs Feb 2016 #60
I'm sure they didn't have any focus groups TBF Feb 2016 #83
As hard as it may be to believe ... NanceGreggs Feb 2016 #98
And when Hillary tells her supporters that that arrow is actually pointing to the left . . . DrBulldog Feb 2016 #63
From April, 2015 Zorra Feb 2016 #64
To me it says SciDude Feb 2016 #67
It also wants to take us backwards, not forward. Elmer S. E. Dump Feb 2016 #69
I noticed it the first time I saw it Skittles Feb 2016 #71
That's Hillary and the "Establishment (Wall Street)" Democrats. jalan48 Feb 2016 #73
"Bernie Sanders - Come for the logo, vote for the catchphrase." kjones Feb 2016 #75
Sends me right to the ignore button. yourout Feb 2016 #76
Sure, if you look at it, the arrow points right. But if you're BEHIND Clinton, it points left. George II Feb 2016 #79
First time I saw it, that's exactly what I thought. AllyCat Feb 2016 #80
Fine with me since Sanders is so far left he's not even in the Democratic party. Yog-Sothoth Feb 2016 #81
It's no accident that arrow points right DebbieCDC Feb 2016 #84
And so? Now we're reduced to critiquing ad campaigns against each others candidate? Skeezer the Kat Feb 2016 #85
Welcome to DU GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #88
Agreed. With a caveat... Skeezer the Kat Feb 2016 #89
None of the ammo is obscured from the opposition regardless of whether we discuss it or not. GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #93
Whoa... Skeezer the Kat Feb 2016 #95
There are no secrets around HRC, her votes, her history, etc so not sure what poo GreatGazoo Feb 2016 #99
Fair enough. Skeezer the Kat Feb 2016 #101
not the commies?! noiretextatique Feb 2016 #102
well, now that you mention it, hopemountain Feb 2016 #86
Been saying that all along Matariki Feb 2016 #97
You see what you are predisposed to see. Not everyone interprets the logo the way you do. n.t Tanuki Feb 2016 #110

GoneOffShore

(17,340 posts)
96. Well, it shows off who HRC owes her allegiance to and who she thinks is important.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:52 PM
Feb 2016

Herself, money and corporate interests

oldtime dfl_er

(6,931 posts)
4. they couldnt very well
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:03 PM
Feb 2016

have the arrow pointing up, could they? that would make the "penetration" image even worse. Or funnier.

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
61. LOL. Great graphic.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:59 PM
Feb 2016

Why did she choose a rightward pointing arrow?

She could have had it face to the left.

TBF

(32,067 posts)
82. I saw blue signs outside the early voting location this
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:54 PM
Feb 2016

morning here in TX. So apparently in that setting it is a blue sign. Other times we see blue & red. I guess it depends upon who she is trying to impress.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
7. A campaign that has the subtlety of a communal toilet
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:07 PM
Feb 2016

and the deftly light touch of a German jazz band. It makes you wonder.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
17. I love how this confuses a certain group.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:15 PM
Feb 2016

It is the same reason Sanders gets away with what he does when it comes to his base. Personally, I would be embarrassed to claim confusion over this.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
21. Not claiming confusion.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:20 PM
Feb 2016

It is a terrible logo for a Democrat and part of a larger campaign that continues to alienate many on the Left by the day.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
49. Maybe you could help me out.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:45 PM
Feb 2016
Sanders gets away with what he does when it comes to his base.


I would hate for Bernie to be pulling the wool over my eyes. Could you enlighten me and I'm sure others too, as to what Bernie is getting away with doing?

brush

(53,791 posts)
18. Or it could be read as going forward since we read that way
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:17 PM
Feb 2016

IMO most people see it that way.

You're over thinking it.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
24. The arrow could have been blue and it could have stayed inside the "H"
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:29 PM
Feb 2016

I agree that the intention of the logo was to communicate the idea of progressive or moving forward. It spawned a lot of similar reaction when it was introduced so perhaps Clinton's agency under thought it ?

CrispyQ

(36,478 posts)
108. Moving forward, looking forward, it's all the same.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 11:41 AM
Feb 2016

War criminals, banksters, who cares? Let's move forward.

Politics has been described as left vs. right & her campaign chooses a logo with a right pointing arrow? Someone wasn't thinking when they made this choice.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
20. That is so funny you said that. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:19 PM
Feb 2016

Subliminal messaging?

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
27. it was Goldwater's image first.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:32 PM
Feb 2016

circle with arrow inside pointing to the right.

It was posted elsewhere on DU yesterday

merrily

(45,251 posts)
28. I don't know how many DUers are in design, but the day that logo came out was a fun day here for
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:32 PM
Feb 2016

supporters of Sanders. Lots of jokes and emoticons in posts.

Good times.

Another issue: it's not red white and blue, just red and blue. To me, that's about politicians, not about the nation. And, in my view, it could not be more of a corporate logo. It's seems to be marketing a corporate product, not a person.

brush

(53,791 posts)
36. It is red, white and blue. The white being the negative space between the verticals of the H.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:01 PM
Feb 2016

I know that's designer-speak but I have to say, the designer knew what he/she was doing.

And ridicule it all you want, it's effective with the arrow pointing forward (as we read that way) and everyone knows it's the Clinton campaign logo.

Repetition, repetition, repetition. That's what does it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
39. Nope. The logo is red and blue. there is no guaranty it will always appear on a white backgound.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:08 PM
Feb 2016

Besides, if the only thing that makes it patriotic, rather than political, is what is NOT present in the logo itself, that says a lot.

It's funny you saw my comments about the logo as "ridicule." This is what all my prior post said about the logo.

Another issue: it's not red white and blue, just red and blue. To me, that's about politicians, not about the nation. And, in my view, it could not be more of a corporate logo. It's seems to be marketing a corporate product, not a person.


Not seeing any ridicule, just describing the logo and what it says to me.


"it's effective" by what standard?

"everyone knows it's the Clinton campaign logo." First, I wouldn't bet on that. Second, everyone would know it was her logo if it contained her name, too.

"Repetition, repetition, repetition. That's what does it." Yes, that is how corporations brand, BUT, repetition is an issue separate from the design itself.

The corporate slickness and lack of humanity were big mistakes IMO, as was the red arrow pointing to the right, as was the echo of the Goldwater arrow.

brush

(53,791 posts)
44. I disagree. 99% of the time that logo is on a white background.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:19 PM
Feb 2016

The designer knew that would be the case. Look at this web site, and millions of others. White is the background color that offers the most contrast.

It's one of the things considered as one solves the design problem of creating a logo for a client.

As far as repetition, you apparently have no design background as contrast, repetition and positive as well as negative space are all principles of design, four of several, that designers used to create a successful solution.

And btw, we wouldn't be talking about it if everyone didn't know it was Clinton campaign logo.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
47. Where to begin?
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:39 PM
Feb 2016

As far as repetition, you apparently have no design background as contrast, repetition and positive as well as negative space are all principles of design, three of several, that designers used to create a successful solution.


Whether I have design background is irrelevant to a political logo--and to a message board, for that matter. Either what you or I post is correct or it isn't. (You're also attempting to use a logical fallacy, but never mind that for now.)

What a political logo says to all people is the test for how good the design is, not what it says to professional designers.

As far as repetition of a logo that goes to how often it is used, not to the design itself. I never said repeating was not part of branding. To the contrary, I said it was.

No design, in and of itself, guaranties repetition. I don't know why you seem to conflate the two, especially after my prior post pointed out they were different issues. However, if you can point out to me how an H with an arrow, in and of itself, guaranties repeated use of the logo, I will reconsider.

My prior post clearly stated my opinion on what a politician's logo says when the only thing it depends upon to make it patriotic is what is not there. I bet there are many campaign buttons and tables out there as I type that do not have a white background.

And btw, we wouldn't be talking about it if everyone didn't know it was Clinton campaign logo.




We talk about it because this is a Democratic political message board during a Democratic Primary and Hillary is a Democrat. If you think every American knows everything about political things that we do, maybe you didn't watch Jaywalking? Most people he stopped couldn't name the Vice President, let alone describe the logo on his campaign button. Hell, I don't know what Cruz's campaign logo is and I AM on a political message board.

Hillary's logo says certain things to certain people. I've said what it says to me, which is not very different from what most people on this board said about it. I doubt you and I are going to agree and I don't see the point in another round of this. Last word is yours, if you want it.

brush

(53,791 posts)
62. Your views of the Clinton logo are so obviously colored by your preference for Bernie
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:01 PM
Feb 2016

so whether it is a successful solution for the designer's client doesn't matter to you.

The designer pleased his/her client. You don't have to like it but you weren't the one paying the money.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
65. I'm curious, as a designer how do you feel about
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:05 PM
Feb 2016

leaving a logo open to interpretation by the viewer?

It just seems to me to be sloppy designing if I can see something that was not intended.

From my very first sight what I saw was an arrow pointing to the right, not forward. But my perception may be skewed because I'm left handed?

brush

(53,791 posts)
72. A simple answer. If the arrow was pointing the other way . . .
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:27 PM
Feb 2016

Last edited Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

everyone would say it's pointing backwards.

Let's face it, many Bernie supporters want that logo to be a fail.

I'm a Bernie supporter but I as a designer, I see the arrow pointing forward in the direction that we read in this country. Many want to emphasize it as pointing to the right because of their dislike of Hillary.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
91. That's OK I never expected you to answer my question.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:31 PM
Feb 2016

But in case you misunderstood here it is again.

I'm curious, as a designer how do you feel about leaving a logo open to interpretation by the viewer?

It just seems to me to be sloppy designing if I can see something that was not intended.

brush

(53,791 posts)
106. And I'll answer again, if it was pointing the other way . . .
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 11:12 AM
Feb 2016

everyone would say it was backwards.

I see it as going forward, you see if as going right.

That's your interpretation. Fine.

But God!, it's not a huge deal. It's a campaign logo that's been out for several months.

It's not even new. Time to move on.

smiley

(1,432 posts)
55. it's a logo fail.....
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:51 PM
Feb 2016

if anyone at all interprets the arrow moving to the right. It doesn't matter what they wanted the logo to symbolize. It fails on so many levels, that I have to believe whoever created it and pitched it was playing a dirty trick on the Clinton campaign.

That's my professional opinion btw.

brush

(53,791 posts)
66. That's one way of looking at it.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:09 PM
Feb 2016

IMO though, that arrow is pointing forward as that is the way we read in this country.

That's my professional opinion.

It might be a failure to you, an apparent Sanders' supporter whose opinion is apparently colored by that fact, but not to the client who paid for it, or the designer who pleased their client.

smiley

(1,432 posts)
112. I agree the logo conveys moving forward, but...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:06 PM
Feb 2016

it also conveys moving to the right. Which is so far from what a progressive candidate should be conveying. IMO as a professional designer and art director, this would immediately shelve this logo concept.

Either Hillary, her campaign, and the creators of this logo are complete idiots and never correlated how this logo might be perceived, or they were absolutely okay with the knowledge that this logo might convey a message contrary to what they intended.

Unless of course their idea of moving forward really is to move to the country further to the right. Then this logo signifies their political aspirations perfectly.

If it conveys anything contrary to what they intended it's a logo fail. Period.


berniepdx420

(1,784 posts)
31. lol... it is Goldwateresque and it does point to the right... and the 1st two terms of the Clinton
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:36 PM
Feb 2016

presidency helped solidify the Third Way in American Politics

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
32. from a design veiwpoint arrows point to the right , it signifies moving ahead
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:42 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary wants to move ahead into a plutocratic fuedal state glossed over by simplistic images of shallow fairytales .

BklnDem75

(2,918 posts)
48. Americans for Limited Government...
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:44 PM
Feb 2016

I suppose ammo is ammo regardless of where we have to go to find it.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
53. it's much more ambiguous
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:48 PM
Feb 2016

If one sees those as pathways then we standing nearly perpendicular to them.

The Obama logo has a balance and subtlety that is lacking in the HRC logo. It has the shape of the Tao symbol, the peace sign, the Earth itself (and Pepsi's logo). Also more feminine than the HRC logo as it suggests fertile fields, round and self contained like a womb in contrast to the traditional male symbol's thrusting arrow.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
68. link regarding the logo design
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:17 PM
Feb 2016


original chosen design, with comments from design group...


“Originally the stripes were kind of symmetrically expressed across the horizon, and as we went into final refinements we felt that giving it a little bit more dimension, a little bit more motion, ways to enter into it a little bit more for the viewer was a better way to go.”

Interesting to see other things they discussed

http://www.logodesignlove.com/obama-08-logo-design-options

mcar

(42,334 posts)
43. Gosh is it time for a logo OP again?
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:19 PM
Feb 2016

Where does the time go? Next up, Goldwater Girl, right? But let's just be sure to focus on the issues, now.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
46. Her campaign logo could be a giant middle finger with the words " to progressives, liberals and
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:36 PM
Feb 2016

non DLC Third Way Democrats" on it, and people will still think she fart rainbows, shit skittles and burps butterflies.

yuiyoshida

(41,832 posts)
50. Ya know color is important too
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:47 PM
Feb 2016

Blue has always been for Democrats, Red for Republicans...the fact its a Red Arrow pointing to the Right and as you said, over the BLUE...well, make your own conclusions.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
57. They're overlooking the honesty displayed in an arrow pointing to the right as a political statement
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:55 PM
Feb 2016

Even it is displayed by a politician not known for her honesty.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
60. I'm glad this topic keeps resurfacing ...
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:58 PM
Feb 2016

... as one of those important issues that Bernie supporters keep saying they want to discuss.

Can a rehash of the length of Hill's bathroom breaks at debates, or her wardrobe choices be far behind?

I don't mean to make light of these important issues - because we'll never know how many millions of voters are basing their candidate-of-choice on campaign logos.

TBF

(32,067 posts)
83. I'm sure they didn't have any focus groups
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:55 PM
Feb 2016

to discuss the logo. Because that is not what is done in the advertising world.

You're an excellent writer, Nance, but not even you can believe that.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
98. As hard as it may be to believe ...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:07 AM
Feb 2016

... I, like millions of other voters, will not be voting for the candidate who has what I think is the better logo.

 

DrBulldog

(841 posts)
63. And when Hillary tells her supporters that that arrow is actually pointing to the left . . .
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:02 PM
Feb 2016

. . those morons BELIEVE HER!

jalan48

(13,870 posts)
73. That's Hillary and the "Establishment (Wall Street)" Democrats.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:31 PM
Feb 2016

Why would Wall Street corporations and financiers want to pay more taxes to support social programs that would benefit the majority of Americans? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the answer.

 

Skeezer the Kat

(41 posts)
85. And so? Now we're reduced to critiquing ad campaigns against each others candidate?
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:00 PM
Feb 2016

Everytime I see that Bernie poster being touted in another thread ("Not me! Us!&quot and the silhouette of him with an upraised right fist) I immediately think of the standard commie rallying cry. Of course, our rightie friends won't be astute enough to see that as well nor attempt to exploit it as such, I'm sure.

So there's that. Are ya'll trying to lose this election or what exactly with this nonsense?

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
88. Welcome to DU
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:12 PM
Feb 2016

Yes Sanders is going to be called a communist and already has been. They called Obama far worse and still do. Didn't stop Obama.

Things are contentious between the two campaigns right now but it's good for us to get all the cards on the table now and field the candidate most able to win in November.

Bill Clinton says "Every time they attack you it gives you a chance to get your message out" and he is right. We should welcome attacks, especially when they present the chance to improve and clarify our message.

 

Skeezer the Kat

(41 posts)
89. Agreed. With a caveat...
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:20 PM
Feb 2016

Agreed. But at the end of the day I think it unwise to hand the opposition the ammo they'll undoubtedly bring to bear on us. Also agreed?

And 'Thank you' for the welcoming!

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
93. None of the ammo is obscured from the opposition regardless of whether we discuss it or not.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:43 PM
Feb 2016

The disadvantage for Clinton right now is that she is in a two-front war, attacked from the Left and Right. Sanders is only attacking from the Left so if Clinton becomes the nominee none of Sanders stuff is re-usable by the Right. If anything Sanders is making Clinton look more centrist.

I don't think Clinton's logo is going to be an issue in November but to your larger point, I want every bad thing about Bernie and every bad thing about Clinton on the table right now. Whichever of the two has the least vulnerabilities should be the nominee.

I don't agree or disagree. I think there is no real ammo that the opposition doesn't already have access to and trial by fire is the best way to improve our chances in November.

 

Skeezer the Kat

(41 posts)
95. Whoa...
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:51 PM
Feb 2016

And if Bernie doesn't carry the South (being from the South and knowing the mindset I'd dare say that's the end result you can anticipate) and Hillary becomes the candidate, you think its wise to have already flung as much poo as possible at her before she squares off with Ted Cruz or, God forbid, T. Rump in the GE?

Geez. Classic dumbass move that.

Don't get me wrong...I respect your enthusiasm for your own candidate and encourage you to show it. But lets not unwittingly try to win a battle and ultimately lose the war here. I'm neither a Hillary nor a Bernie fan at this point. I am simply a passionate believer that the GOP has no candidate worthy of occupying the Oval Office. So whomever is the Dem candidate will ultimately get my vote. Period.

I prefer a stance right now that leaves my option to support the ultimate Dem candidate open with no regret nor need for apology.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
99. There are no secrets around HRC, her votes, her history, etc so not sure what poo
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:07 AM
Feb 2016

you are worried about. There is no new poo for her and none of them are going to be saying she isn't far enough to the Left.

I was born in the South and expect Bernie would lose many states there but I don't see HRC doing better.

...time for this Yankee to get some sleep... again welcome to DU and I hope you will continue to share your views and insights here!

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