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islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 05:18 PM Feb 2016

Bernie reminds Third Way/DNC/old-DLC folks that they aren't real Democrats any more...

and they don't like it.

The phenomenon of Bernie's run so far is not an insurgency against the established power structure of the Democratic Party which has guided the Party farther right, moving away from the center and as far from the left as it could manage...

it is an AWAKENING of the traditional base of the Democratic Party, the liberal progressive base that has been triangulated out of both power and effectiveness since 1988. The strangulation of fundamental ideals, the replacing of broad-based social program involvement with corporate relationships, the pursuit of money to fuel more money-gathering, the lack of support for progressive Party candidates to the point of supporting (actively) Republican candidates, the attempt to minimize broad participation in the Party to strengthen the TW/DNC hold on the direction of the party while weakening the access of a great deal of the base to the corridors of Party leadership, and on and on...

It was a massive move to the right, pushing even the Republicans rightward with its pressure...and now it has pushed too far...the Party has outrun its true base and finds itself defending what 30 years ago would have been conservative Republican positions, running candidates mirroring RW candidates of that era, losing elections because Americans don't want to choose between two Republicans (one an R and one a D) when they can just as easily choose the real deal.

There is a lot of pent-up frustration within the Party that the leaders have ignored...and could afford to ignore as long as nothing changed and nobody rocked the boat. Well...somebody stood up in the boat...somebody who rowed along with all the Democrats for over 25 years and finally saw that he would try to turn the boat around...

Bernie may not have registered as a Democrat until lately...I submit that you will have to search far and wide to find a better Democrat today...any criticism Bernie has directed at Party leadership (BHO included) is based on principles that he knows the Party is both moving away from and compromising...

Those hung up on 'when' are either too removed from the pulse of a great deal of the Party...or were not around when it was the DEMOCRATIC PARTY of FDR, TRUMAN, JFK, RFK, even LBJ, Carter....and to attack his criticism of certain aspects of Democratic leadership as a 'problem' is to be in the greatest form of denial...denying that the leadership has taken the Party astray, followed principles of money and power and left that great mass of people that built it behind, that the 'new' Party is not Democratic at all...and that there are those who believe in the Democratic Party, more than they believe in Bernie Sanders, and what it has historically stood for (and against) and want to put THAT Democratic Party back together...
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Bernie reminds Third Way/DNC/old-DLC folks that they aren't real Democrats any more... (Original Post) islandmkl Feb 2016 OP
Big K&R! MelissaB Feb 2016 #1
BUT, Bernie is definitely more of a Democrat than the Democrats. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #2
ROCK ON! Rockyj Feb 2016 #61
Yes we are. 840high Feb 2016 #95
Funny LeFleur1 Feb 2016 #99
NEW DEM = OLD GOP Vincardog Feb 2016 #3
^^^^ This. ^^^^ nt bunnies Feb 2016 #55
Pretty Much. It's what Goldwater girls became after the radicals took over the GOP. eom Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #64
Writ large. The DLC ate its host. nt MaeScott Feb 2016 #65
great post! tk2kewl Feb 2016 #4
That is known as blaming the opposition for what you yourself are doing -none Feb 2016 #87
K&R kristopher Feb 2016 #5
Huge K &R. grntuscarora Feb 2016 #6
Excellent Post..Hillary and her friends don't get it.... tokenlib Feb 2016 #7
Her friends get it alright, that's why they are so uptight. Soon, they will be pushing litlbilly Feb 2016 #10
That's funny....:) tokenlib Feb 2016 #20
I think they get it now...they're panicking. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #32
K&R Kittycat Feb 2016 #8
Kick ana DURec. bvar22 Feb 2016 #9
K & R AzDar Feb 2016 #11
Voting for Bernie is not only a vote against Hillary but the entire "Third Way" Establishment johnlucas Feb 2016 #12
+1000 LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #24
I dig that signature pic of the B pulling the H to the Left johnlucas Feb 2016 #33
thanks LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #63
I didn't even think of that. The colors! Of course! SMART! johnlucas Feb 2016 #78
This is so good. Nice job. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #38
Great post! wezl Feb 2016 #94
Thank you, Johnlucas McKim Feb 2016 #96
A Gargantuan K & R ! democrank Feb 2016 #13
K & R! TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #14
Kinda odd that 1988 is when politics in my brain as a 12-13 yr old perked my ears PatrynXX Feb 2016 #15
This is it ornotna Feb 2016 #16
It was Hillary's husband that was part and partial to moving the Dem.Party to the right. DLC ? YOHABLO Feb 2016 #17
They want the Democratic Party to be a Center-Right party enigmatic Feb 2016 #18
Money corrupts everything. Everything. nt MaeScott Feb 2016 #67
He's the "Great Restoration" zentrum Feb 2016 #19
I like that, "Great Restoration" me b zola Feb 2016 #34
Thought of it earlier today zentrum Feb 2016 #37
+1. appalachiablue Feb 2016 #100
True That nfm Billsmile Feb 2016 #21
Bernie is reenergizing the Democratic party. Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #22
The problem as I see it is that we must get the young, enthused progressives involved rhett o rick Feb 2016 #85
This is the first real threat they have faced in decades..... Bonhomme Richard Feb 2016 #23
Well Said elljay Feb 2016 #25
K&R Thank for posting Mbrow Feb 2016 #26
74 years old and raised on FDR politics. I want my party jwirr Feb 2016 #27
i grew up in a small Kansas town with a father who was a Dem worker bee... islandmkl Feb 2016 #28
So true! ananda Feb 2016 #29
They never were, only in their minds Fearless Feb 2016 #30
"and they don't like it" Jack Rabbit Feb 2016 #31
about RepublicanLite...you forgot ™ islandmkl Feb 2016 #39
thanks to everyone for the rec's...much appreciated islandmkl Feb 2016 #35
great OP amborin Feb 2016 #58
The hostile takeover of the Democratic party's "brand name" has finally been beaten back! mhatrw Feb 2016 #36
Spent decades spreading that moolah.... MaeScott Feb 2016 #66
Excellent Post! Well Said! 2banon Feb 2016 #40
Someone who's not a Democrat but uses what he never helped build Gman Feb 2016 #41
Bill Clinton School of IS? I need a translation, no criticism intended... islandmkl Feb 2016 #42
That is convoluted Gman Feb 2016 #43
i would imagine you can match his 'voting with Democrats' record with about any Dem islandmkl Feb 2016 #45
Agree - some are getting carried away....... kerry-is-my-prez Feb 2016 #62
Hillary has raised $32 million dollars for DNC v $0 from Senator Sanders. wyldwolf Feb 2016 #44
that's pretty funny...you mean this: islandmkl Feb 2016 #46
No, I mean this wyldwolf Feb 2016 #47
who has received the money? islandmkl Feb 2016 #48
It's for general election campaigns, not primaries wyldwolf Feb 2016 #49
apparently you don't know how the money works...let me rephrase the question: islandmkl Feb 2016 #50
Apparently you don't know how campaign financing works wyldwolf Feb 2016 #54
you might want to read what the fund-raising effort was all about... islandmkl Feb 2016 #56
I have wyldwolf Feb 2016 #57
Based on what? PeterGM Feb 2016 #69
I doubt that any 'new' Dems would want to explain the coattails, or lack thereof, islandmkl Feb 2016 #90
And Sanders is a "real Democrat"? George II Feb 2016 #51
how's his voting record? what is your measure? that "D" behind his name (or not)? islandmkl Feb 2016 #52
For coporate immunity and mass incarceration of blacks and Wall Street dergulation... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #59
Of course you don't. Your apparent vision of a "real Democrat" is someone that takes millions from rhett o rick Feb 2016 #86
DLC noretreatnosurrender Feb 2016 #53
he may have been twisted, but he wasn't crazy..HST's simple take on politicians: islandmkl Feb 2016 #60
There's no nice way to say this The Wizard Feb 2016 #68
Bernie is a real Democrat! Lunabell Feb 2016 #70
Lest we forget Bangbangdem Feb 2016 #71
That ended with Raygun... freebrew Feb 2016 #79
K&R The ever rightward shift isn't a bug, its a feature. raouldukelives Feb 2016 #72
I've been a Democrat for over 40 years Boomer Feb 2016 #73
KICKING LiberalElite Feb 2016 #74
Kick! nt LiberalElite Feb 2016 #75
Bernie reminds us that Hope and Change have to be supported by actual plans Tarc Feb 2016 #76
lol LWolf Feb 2016 #81
Bernie is the only reason I haven't quit the party... mak3cats Feb 2016 #77
Future of Democratic Party and future of Democracy in US depends on Bernie victory kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #80
Bernie is a party crasher. if he had any regard for FDR,Truman, RFK, LBJ he would have registered.. dubyadiprecession Feb 2016 #82
K&R quantass Feb 2016 #83
Your words are precisely how i feel. Nicely said nt quantass Feb 2016 #84
K and R. nt mariawr Feb 2016 #88
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #89
Bernie is giving the Democratic Party EVERY chance to redeem & renew itself ... 99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #91
a battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #92
K&R! valerief Feb 2016 #93
Hey Mr. Dubya-Dip . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #97
The DWS DNC DLC Third Way Establishment Fears It Will Lose Power - Plain And Simple cantbeserious Feb 2016 #98
Maybe it isn't true, it would be more moderates than far left, Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #101

PatrickforO

(14,587 posts)
2. BUT, Bernie is definitely more of a Democrat than the Democrats.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 05:27 PM
Feb 2016

And we're DEFINITELY ready for a New Deal.

LeFleur1

(1,197 posts)
99. Funny
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 05:08 PM
Feb 2016

It's getting funnier and funnier. Evidently Bernie thinks the Democrats of today are more like Independents because he finally decided he'd join the Democratic party of TODAY, after years and years of not agreeing with them enough to join. Yes, TODAY's DEMOCRATIC PARTY is his kind of party.

Unless...unless he had an ulterior motive. Naw. He just became a believer.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
4. great post!
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 05:29 PM
Feb 2016

i had to do a double take when i saw the pro-Clinton post that was accusing Bernie of being the "man behind the curtain" from Oz... if there's a metaphor there it's that Bernie has pulled the curtain open on the decades of bullshit that brought the Democratic Party to this place in time

-none

(1,884 posts)
87. That is known as blaming the opposition for what you yourself are doing
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:30 PM
Feb 2016

Lee Atwater and Karl Rove must be so proud of the 3rd Way.

tokenlib

(4,186 posts)
7. Excellent Post..Hillary and her friends don't get it....
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 05:37 PM
Feb 2016

The New Dem/Third way/ Wall Street enablers have political lives that are living on borrowed time. Even if Hillary gets the nomination..they are going down. In the end it is "STILL THE ECONOMY...and their economic policies are a race to the bottom.

 

litlbilly

(2,227 posts)
10. Her friends get it alright, that's why they are so uptight. Soon, they will be pushing
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:03 PM
Feb 2016

diamonds out of their butts

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
32. I think they get it now...they're panicking.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:33 PM
Feb 2016

Grasping at Superdelegate straws to hold on to power and their spots at the corporate feed trough. But even if they steal the nomination for Hillary, their days are over.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
9. Kick ana DURec.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:03 PM
Feb 2016

Of course, most of us in the democratic underground have know this,
and fought against it for years.

It is shocking to do the math, and discover that LBJ was the most LIBERAL Democratic President
for over half a CENTURY. No wonder so many don't know or remember what a Democrat is supposed to sound like. If you are under 50, you have never heard a real Democratic Candidate for President except for Sanders.

 

johnlucas

(1,250 posts)
12. Voting for Bernie is not only a vote against Hillary but the entire "Third Way" Establishment
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:17 PM
Feb 2016

I say it on this forum over & over.
There is a difference between the DEMOCRATIC & the UNDERGROUND.
You need both to win & both have their strengths & weaknesses.

The DEMOCRATIC are the Rah-Rah Cheerleaders who provide the numbers you need as well as build the well-oiled machine for political operations.
These are the people who are Democrat Do Or Die & have the teamwork necessary to build political structures.
You'll see them fawn over pics of the First Family & other Democratic icons for instance.

BUT they don't have the ability to see past the flaws of the party & will continue down a bad path the party set since they are the team that built the machine.
They have little patience for anybody who criticizes shortcomings in the Democratic Party & would rather critics get out of the party if they dislike the criticisms.
The Cheerleaders simply team up together & build up those structures on the field. Rah-Rah!

The UNDERGROUND are the Lone Wolf Idealists who carry the principles you need as well as check the political machine to keep it on the right track.
These are the people who see Principle Over Party & remind you what the whole purpose of putting together the political machine was all about in the first place.
You'll see them break ranks with Consensus & challenge Democrats to make better stands for instance.

BUT they don't have the ability to work within teams too well & will splinter over so many micro-issues leading them to irrelevancy in the final outcome.
They have little patience for a policy to be anything other than 100% & will split one by one for each individual vision of the same goal for the sake of purity.
The Lone Wolves simply carry those principles in their teeth & howl at the machine until it gets back on track. Ideal!

What Hillary represents is that Democratic machine but that machine is off track.
The Democratic Party has been weak for DECADES. DECADES UPON DECADES.
There's a reason why Democrats can't command turnout in the midterms.
There's a reason why Republican framing dominates not only mass media but people's personal views about life.
The Democrats rolled over for Republicans so long, played scared for so long, that people only turn out because Republicans are just that much worst.
The Democratic voters have to be SCARED into that same ol' "voting for the lesser of two evils" AKA South Park's "voting for either a Turd Sandwich or a Giant Douche".
But that's not a confident vote. That's a fearful vote. That's a scared vote.
We're just voting AGAINST somebody else to prevent a worse outcome.

Obama actually got people EXCITED to vote FOR him in 2008 & we had a chance to correct the weakness in the Democratic Party.
He didn't fulfill those campaign hopes & thus the 2010 & 2014 turnout which went to the Republicans.
It worked out in the end because the Republicans are so dumb & have no braking system on their machine.
All they know how to do is go even MORE forward with their direction. No matter how bad it may be.
So now in 2016 we have ANOTHER opportunity to get it right.
That's why Bernie is surging in this election.

With the power of the internet prominently in people's grasp, Democratic voters as well as OTHER type of voters see Bernie as the proper way to go.
Bernie is the UNDERGROUND coming to fix the DEMOCRATIC.
The guy who's a self-declared Socialist, the guy who has been Independent just like the lone wolf he is for so many decades now formally joins the Democratic Party to save it from itself.
The guy who clarifies his position by saying Democratic Socialist.

That's the future for this party. Some would say that's how it was in the past & we're just returning to form.
Either way you count it this is what HE represents & what Hillary does NOT.
Voting for him is also a vote to transform the Democratic Party.
The Diet Republican Third Way ways symbolized by the Clintons are not gonna fly anymore.
When this current Democratic Party feels the BERN it will be a purifying fire.

In the end, the party will be better because of it.
They will have an energized voting base who will have something worth Rah-Rahing about.
John Lucas

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
24. +1000
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:54 PM
Feb 2016

We do need both. That's why we will still need the faithful Hillary supporters, who tend to be a part of the machine crowd, to embrace change once Sanders wins. I admit I engage in borderline abusive behavour to the Hillarians as well (see?), but I also fear that by the time of Super Tuesday, the Democratic Party may be split into two warring camps that are made up of my-candidate-or-no-ones.

Bernie supporters MUST mentally set aside a bit of space for accepting the "worst of two evils" scenario (if that's how they must define it), and support and vote for Hillary. With the hopes that she will be at least mildly affected by the loudness she heard from the liberal base of her own party during this last year.

and Hillary supporters hopefully will save a little space in their brains for giving up on the idea of the first woman President, or whatever is the main reason they supported her, and try and look at the silver lining and I'm not talking about Bernie's hair.

IMO, there is a choice, a once in a lifetime choice, of electing a revolutionary movement of real and positive change to heal and get back on track, the direction that America has steered off track for decades, or a business as usual but at least holding the forte and open to socially liberal policies...until another Bernie comes along. The other choice of sitting out with childish petulance, and waking up to a Trump America, is too dangerous to even contemplate.

 

johnlucas

(1,250 posts)
33. I dig that signature pic of the B pulling the H to the Left
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:35 PM
Feb 2016

I just got through complinmenting a poster named Matariki who had a parody of Hillary's 'H' logo in his/her screenpic.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511270154#post178
Matariki had a B with an arrow pointing to the Left representing Bernie in comparison to Hillary's H pointing to the Right.

B to the Left.
Even when you say it outloud you hear a message. BE to the LEFT.

So when I saw your signature pic with Bernie's Left-pointing B dragging Hillary's Right-pointing H leftward on a rope, I thought that was perfect symbolism to what's going on in this election.
Just like with Matariki's 'B' logo parody I had to save that pic of your 'B' pulling 'H' logo parody to my computer after seeing it.

I typed in 'hillary logo parody' into Google Images & found out that Hillary's logo is ripe for mockery & parody.
And I think I know where all this came from.
Some guy named Rick Wolff made an article parodying Hillary's H logo making up an entire font for it!
http://rickwolff.com/hillvetica/

If you think on it deeper, B comes before H in the alphabet & that's pretty much how the political stances of Bernie compare to Hillary.
He stood on issues EARLIER than Hillary did. He made stances on issues BEFORE she did.
It makes absolute sense that B would drag H to the Left since B is closer to the Left side.
So deep. So much you can do with these analogies.

I have no doubt Bernie will win the Democratic nomination but even if he somehow didn't, I would begrudgingly vote for Hillary.
At least she won't have us looking like 1945 Germany when she's done like Trump or the others would.
But if I have to make a choice, I'm gonna pick Bernie first.
H would not have to worry about B if she stood as squarely on issues as her letter signifies.
If H stood square on those RIGHT ANGLES, H wouldn't have to worry about B throwing her for CURVES.

John Lucas

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
63. thanks
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 05:10 AM
Feb 2016

I guess Hillary had to pick something but yes, her logo is "ripe for mockery and parody". I also thought it odd that in Hillary's logo it is the red (GOP colors) stamped on top of the blue (Dems), in charge and driving her to the right. I reversed the colors for Bernie's. So its the blue Democrat base that is steering Bernie's campaign to the left and dragging Hillary along with him.

 

johnlucas

(1,250 posts)
78. I didn't even think of that. The colors! Of course! SMART!
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 12:41 PM
Feb 2016

See this thing is full of allegory!! Hahahahahaha!
I totally missed the symbolism of the colors.
You're exactly right.

Good idea reversing the colors for Bernie.
Hey & think of the underlying Red not as 'Republican' but for the Fire that BERNS.
Man this stuff is inspiring!
A simple logo can have you think of so many things.

We gotta thank Rick Wolff. Hillvetica opened the door for so many creative ideas.
Hahahahaha!
John Lucas

McKim

(2,412 posts)
96. Thank you, Johnlucas
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 03:45 PM
Feb 2016

Great post John. My New Deal Democrat Farmer Uncles are spinning in their graves to see Hillary and the DNC of today. It is way past time that we take back our party and our country.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
15. Kinda odd that 1988 is when politics in my brain as a 12-13 yr old perked my ears
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:32 PM
Feb 2016

although then at a Lutheran School it was over Michael and his abortion stance. , nothing like an abortion coversation with her brother 1-2 yrs younger (9-10, shed woulda been 11 , me 12 going on 13 . I was neutral then. albeit I've gotten a bit further to the right on the issue growing up. So my political interest started in 1988 when Dems went down the hole. After having one fake democrat in the white house then one that was intended to work with the Right Wing. But couldn't because he was so effective in converted Republicans into Democrats we lost sight of our or the Democratic Ideals. ( say that because I have an indendent streak which is probably based on my Faith) it's facinating thing to watch what exactly Bernie is doing. and it's not exactly about Him. If hillary keeps attacking him she's attacking the wrong person She's attacking her voters. We put Bernie there, We have pushed him to go this far. We have driving him to say what he's saying. So if Hillary hasn't figured out why she got booed the other day, she's gonna lose. And like Mitt Romney (who was a Liberal in Conservative Clothes, neither saw it coming.

enigmatic

(15,021 posts)
18. They want the Democratic Party to be a Center-Right party
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:36 PM
Feb 2016

After it was taken over by the DLC in the 90's, that's what it has become. The Reagan Democrats of the 1980 election is their template.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
37. Thought of it earlier today
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:59 PM
Feb 2016

…and said it when I inadvertently wandered into a Hillary Group Forum. I was immediately blocked from ever posting there again—LOL!

Great screen name!

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
85. The problem as I see it is that we must get the young, enthused progressives involved
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:04 PM
Feb 2016

in the day to day humdrum of running local politics. It's fun and easy to go to rallies and carry signs. It's quite another to show up at every monthly county meeting and tend to business. I go and most are over 50.

Bonhomme Richard

(9,000 posts)
23. This is the first real threat they have faced in decades.....
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:50 PM
Feb 2016

and they will bring out the big guns to kill it.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
28. i grew up in a small Kansas town with a father who was a Dem worker bee...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:15 PM
Feb 2016

a prairie Dustbowl survivor kind of guy...he believed in what FDR had brought forth for the country, and at the same time, would not tolerate ignoring flaws in the Party...

we are so far from those days and that Party...but we can bring it back

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
31. "and they don't like it"
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:32 PM
Feb 2016

Too bad. They were never real Democrats. The DLC was founded to make Republican Lite of the Democratic party and insure that American policy would be Reaganomiics regardless of which party was in power.

From the Clinton administration forward, the only difference between the two major parties has been gay rights and women's rights. The "New Democrats" threw everything else under the bus. Mass incarceration, in practice, is a funny way to support civil rights for blacks. Likewise welfare deform; AFDC was a bad program, but what replaced it is worse. When it came to Reaganesque wet dreams of deregulation and wars, the New Democrats were on board. Remember this little gem from neoconservative Democrat Will Marshall? It surprised me that the DLC didn't propose a national unity ticket of Bush-Lieberman in 2004. Of course, the New Democrats threw organized labor under the bus, too, and passed "free" trade, which has been one of the most irresponsible things done by officials in the federal government since Jefferson Davis led Southern Senators out of the Capitol in 1861 or Aaron Burr's misadventures in the Louisiana Territory decades earlier that resulted in his being charged with treason. In addition, Barack Obama, who did succeed in achieving the beginnings of healthcare reform, also bought into the Bush administration's assault on civil liberties by failing to end NSA spying.

That's not the Democratic Party I joined the first time I registered to vote in 1972. That's more like the GOP of the second rate matinee idol who was governor of California at the time. Boy, did I dread the idea of him becoming President. And his being President. And the "New Democrats" adopting Reaganomics.

The residents of Camp Weathervane may deride Bernie Sanders as an independent (not a "real Democrat&quot . Regardless of what his official party affiliation may have been, he's always been a better Democrat than Al From. Or Will Marshall. Or Joe Lieberman. Or Jon Cowan. Or Hillary Clinton.

Edited to add: The original article by Will Marshall, Blair Democrats: Ready for Battle may be found by pasting the following link into your browser's address box:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/05/01/the-blair-democrats-ready-for-battle/dda904c4-751b-45a1-80e1-7050a9c0c7d7/

Today, it makes almost amusing reading. Marshall's steer manure really seems quaint now.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
35. thanks to everyone for the rec's...much appreciated
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:55 PM
Feb 2016

like Satchel Paige said, "Don't look back...they might be gaining on you."

MaeScott

(878 posts)
66. Spent decades spreading that moolah....
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 07:51 AM
Feb 2016

....time to call in those favors...and buy up the media. Geesh

Gman

(24,780 posts)
41. Someone who's not a Democrat but uses what he never helped build
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:10 PM
Feb 2016

Is defining what everyone is and he is not but he is? How messed up is that?

Gman

(24,780 posts)
43. That is convoluted
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:24 PM
Feb 2016

He's not a Democrat, but allegedly he's basically defining what I am not because I don't support him, for example, even though I've worked in the party for over 40 years and he has not.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
45. i would imagine you can match his 'voting with Democrats' record with about any Dem
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:34 PM
Feb 2016

you can find during the same tenure...

he may not be 100%...but you can argue percentage points all you want and still not change that he has been about as good a Democrat during his time in Congress and anyone sporting a "D"...and I would submit that he has a better record than most...

sounds like a google search time

that "D" doesn't mean what it did 30 years ago...and anyone who has been involved in the Party for 40 years knows that...whether they admit it or not

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,133 posts)
62. Agree - some are getting carried away.......
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:23 AM
Feb 2016

I can appreciate both candidates (Sanders and Clinton) but this is downright presumptuous and silly. The echo chamber that agrees with this is kinda scary. One after another.

wyldwolf

(43,869 posts)
44. Hillary has raised $32 million dollars for DNC v $0 from Senator Sanders.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:29 PM
Feb 2016

Not only is he not a democrat he doesn't support the party.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
46. that's pretty funny...you mean this:
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:36 PM
Feb 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democratic-party-fundraising-effort-helps-clinton-find-new-donors-too/2016/02/19/b8535cea-d68f-11e5-b195-2e29a4e13425_story.html

But the states have yet to see a financial windfall. Meanwhile, Clinton’s own campaign has been a major beneficiary, getting an infusion of low-dollar contributions through the committee at a time when rival Bernie Sanders’s army of small donors is helping him close in on her financially. The fund is run by Clinton campaign staff, and its treasurer is Clinton’s chief operating officer.

Clinton officials said their use of the fund is proper and that the state parties will benefit from the millions the joint fundraising committee is generating for the DNC, which provides the infrastructure to support Democratic campaigns across the country.


is that money flowing?...I'll have to check

and to who...more TW/DNC semi-Dems?

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
48. who has received the money?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:45 PM
Feb 2016

plus...January 2 seems a long time ago in some circumstances...

if you are a down-ticket Dem you have to gamble on HRC delivering...or take the same gamble with Bernie...

the tide of popular support might become a more valuable commodity than money that either BS or HRC has raised...what is the vaunted DNC going to do with all the donations if it turns out to be Bernie?

let me know when the Clinton's turn loose of the money...you know, to someone else....

wyldwolf

(43,869 posts)
49. It's for general election campaigns, not primaries
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:55 PM
Feb 2016


This is another weakness of the 'progressive' movement - unfamiliar with how campaign finance works.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
50. apparently you don't know how the money works...let me rephrase the question:
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:06 PM
Feb 2016

who gets the money?

The joint committee that was formed, called the Hillary Victory Fund, ended up raising nearly $27 million by the end of 2015, thanks to six-figure donations from longtime Clinton allies and a New York fundraiser headlined by the singer Sting. /snip

So far, the state parties have served only as a pass-through for their share of the funds. Campaign finance records show that nearly $2 million in donations to the fund initially routed last year to individual state party accounts was immediately transferred to the DNC, which is laboring to pay off millions in debt. /snip

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” said Lawrence Noble, a former general counsel of the Federal Election Commission who is now with the nonpartisan Campaign Legal Center. “Joint victory funds are not intended to be separate operating committees that just support a single candidate. But they appear to be turning the traditional notion of a joint committee into a Hillary fundraising committee.”




wyldwolf

(43,869 posts)
54. Apparently you don't know how campaign financing works
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:19 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary raised money for the DNC, which in turn gives donation to candidates. The money wasn't raised for state parties.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
56. you might want to read what the fund-raising effort was all about...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:21 PM
Feb 2016

what part of 'states' do you not read....

just follow the flow...it isn't hidden....

wyldwolf

(43,869 posts)
57. I have
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:24 PM
Feb 2016


Look, it's fairly simple: Democrats -- lifelong Democrats who have labored in the fields and fought in the trenches -- know who has helped them in the past with campaigning and fundraising. They know who will have coattails to help them get elected this fall to national, state, and local offices. That's why so many officeholders have endorsed Clinton (Sanders, so far, has three U.S. representatives (and look who they are!), zero governors, and zero U.S. senators.)

Of course, Sanders's' supporters disdain all this because these people are the "establishment" and so don't count. Well, they sure as hell count to me -- and to other Democrats who care about winning and saving the country from Republicans.

PeterGM

(71 posts)
69. Based on what?
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 09:11 AM
Feb 2016

" lifelong Democrats who have labored in the fields and fought in the trenches -- know who has helped them in the past with campaigning and fundraising. They know who will have coattails to help them get elected this fall to national, state, and local offices."

Actually this point as no factual basis. I looked up the history of the make up of congress vs. the presidents and since Reagan, republicans have been much better at keeping (or expanding) their parties hold on congress than Clinton or Obama have. Granted 2 vs 3 presidents aren't exactly a giant statistical sample, but these are the only Neo-Liberal presidents so we have to observe what they have done.
They might have been able to win re-election, but as far as coat tails go, historically, they have had squat (only noticeable effect was their coat tails for the first year after getting elected.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
90. I doubt that any 'new' Dems would want to explain the coattails, or lack thereof,
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:43 PM
Feb 2016

in 2010 and 2014...the single biggest weakness of the TW/DNC Party is exposed in the off-year elections...

who ran away from Obama in '10 and '14?...Democratic candidates!!

It's amazing how the name 'Obama' is golden in the Presidential primary when we had candidates two years ago who would not even mention his name...and they lost.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
52. how's his voting record? what is your measure? that "D" behind his name (or not)?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:17 PM
Feb 2016

we have a lot of "D's" that got us in the shape we are now...as a country, not just a party...

if you are fine with the direction of the Democratic Party, so be it....that is your right...

others of us want the Party to return to its roots...and if you don't know what those are, then there lies the rub...

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
59. For coporate immunity and mass incarceration of blacks and Wall Street dergulation...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:41 PM
Feb 2016

... for starters

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
86. Of course you don't. Your apparent vision of a "real Democrat" is someone that takes millions from
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:10 PM
Feb 2016

corporations and billionaires, supports the MIC, supports the Patriot Act, fracking, and killer "Free Trade" Agreements.

Clinton agreed with Bush on invading Iraq. Is that a "real Democrat"?

The Clintons have amassed between 100 and 200 million dollars from grateful banker "friends". That's not Democratic.

My definition of a good Democrat is one that follows Democratic Principles. That leaves out HRC.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
60. he may have been twisted, but he wasn't crazy..HST's simple take on politicians:
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 11:22 PM
Feb 2016
“A lot of blood has gone under the bridge since then, and we have all learned a hell of a lot about the realities of Politics in America. Even the politicians have learned – but, as usual, the politicians are much slower than the people they want to lead.”

― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72

44 years later and we are in the same exact spot...

The Wizard

(12,547 posts)
68. There's no nice way to say this
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 09:07 AM
Feb 2016

But the Clinton machine has miscalculated and will probably get the nod through machinations and skulduggery. Unfortunately their lust for power will fragment the Democratic Party for years to come. Plain and simple, the 1990s grab a few swing voters in the middle strategy is useless in today's tribal political climate. The name of the game is motivating the base and the Republicans have mastered that.
The Clinton machine has managed to alienate the base believing that Democratic voters have no one else to support.
Truth is Hillary is a lousy candidate who is always calculating while she answers questions, and it shows.
If it's too difficult to do what the rest of the civilized world is doing like universal health care and free college tuition, then maybe Hillary should try another profession. Health care and education are national security measures. Funneling more money into military waste compromises our security. Bailing out corrupt bankers for campaign contributions (bribes) is corruption, nothing more or less.
We deserve better than President Rubio.
When you're channeling Lee Atwater, you're compromising your integrity. Empty rhetoric like "I will fight for you" is the same kind of crap coming from Trump who says he's great and he knows how to get things done without providing details.

Lunabell

(6,105 posts)
70. Bernie is a real Democrat!
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 09:13 AM
Feb 2016

He is what our party used to represent before the corporatists took it over.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
72. K&R The ever rightward shift isn't a bug, its a feature.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:26 AM
Feb 2016

Trump is just the natural extension of having no real left in this country. And it leaves centrists like Bernie to be mantled as far left. When in reality, he is just a manifestation of once bedrock democratic ideals.

It is a reality made to order from the major corporations. As long as they could control the flow of information, they could control the flow of democracy. Had a damn fine run too. But the internet and social media have left a gaping wound in the side of the SS Goldman and its taking on water at a rapid pace.

I, for one, couldn't be happier about it.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
76. Bernie reminds us that Hope and Change have to be supported by actual plans
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:56 AM
Feb 2016

and not empty promises. The Bern is no Obama, taking down the big, bad Hillary.

As much as his followers desperately wish him to be.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
81. lol
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 01:25 PM
Feb 2016

Plans that he's got; he's not now, and never has, offered empty promises.

It's true he's no Obama. He's not a "new Democrat;" just one of many reasons he's got my support.

Hillary? She's not now, and never has been "big" nor "bad." She is more like chicken pox than any big, bad anything. You know. Irritating and uncomfortable, but doesn't last long. Also doesn't go away. She is always there somewhere, strengthening her attack potential, and periodically re-erupts with the shingles, each time worse than the time before.

Happily, we now have a vaccination for that.



mak3cats

(1,573 posts)
77. Bernie is the only reason I haven't quit the party...
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 12:02 PM
Feb 2016

...after many years of committee membership. I was getting so discouraged with a leadership who didn't give a rat's ass about our voters, but only focused on "getting" the opposition, which always meant acting more like them. Our base turnout had been decreasing for years because we never contacted them, never asked them their views - we pretty much took them for granted (sound familiar?) and they paid us back by not showing up at the polls because they didn't care anymore.

Even though our leadership hasn't changed at all, Bernie has struck a chord here. This is Western New York, and I have yet to see a Hillary sticker or sign. But I've seen lots of Bernie's.

dubyadiprecession

(5,722 posts)
82. Bernie is a party crasher. if he had any regard for FDR,Truman, RFK, LBJ he would have registered..
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 01:41 PM
Feb 2016

in the democratic party decades ago. You know, like when it as more liberal and more to his supposed liking.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
91. Bernie is giving the Democratic Party EVERY chance to redeem & renew itself ...
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:55 PM
Feb 2016

rather than Naderizing the 2016 Election cycle, Bernie is doing the honorable thing,
running as a Democrat, the party where his heart was, before it was broken by 3rdWay
sell-outs to corporate America, the party he's caucused with for decades, the party
he keeps reminding of it's own roots, and you are right ... they HATE it, but know in
their guts he is 100% correct.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
97. Hey Mr. Dubya-Dip . .
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 04:18 PM
Feb 2016

the Koch Brothers organized and founded the DLC.

Why should Bernie join such a party?

Why should anyone?

And DLC thinking is pervasive. In our Ohio county the
Dem establishment is openly contemptuous of
average people and their concerns.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
101. Maybe it isn't true, it would be more moderates than far left,
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 05:25 PM
Feb 2016

So unless there are a few who wants to change then the Democratic party isn't overtaken. How is the Green Party going to survive without members?

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