2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Has Earned His Success. Hillary Clinton Embodies White Privilege
After two major wars and failed policies that devastated the Middle East, do you think a black or Latina woman could run for president on a record of voting for Iraq, while simultaneously defending against an email scandal?
If white privilege has any definition, it's the ability to be linked to an FBI investigation, while simultaneously touting one's experience.
If Michelle Obama had been involved in endless scandals, one can only imagine the effects on her political future, especially if she were to run for public office. Being a Clinton, and being a white woman, has benefited Hillary tremendously.
Even with the FBI investigating a private server, and with 67% of Americans distrusting her, Clinton is still running for president. You simply can't earn that kind of overt privilege; it's given to you by the same people who complain about it in progressive publications.
-more at link-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-has-earned-his-success_b_9304428.html
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)In some fucked up universe.
White male is the EMBODIMENT of white privilege.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I didn't think so.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)She's rich and famous. She can get away with lots of things none of the rest of us could ever dream of.
That's why Bernie is running. He wants to change all that and make everyone equal, and in doing so open up the system so that it doesn't favor the rich and famous.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Very well put.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Cannot allow this to die... Much less the transcripts.. I am sick of her BS commercials getting oin Florida already... That IS CORPORATE Wall Street MONEY Talkin'!
840high
(17,196 posts)Everybody does it, is an excuse expected from a mischievous child, not a presidential candidate. But that is Hillary Clintons latest defense for making closed-door, richly paid speeches to big banks, which many middle-class Americans still blame for their economic pain, and then refusing to release the transcripts.
kcjohn1
(751 posts)I'm always drawn to the underdog. My whole life I have rooted for those disadvantaged. This is the essence of my liberalism. I'm have being fortunate in my life (through sheer hard work), but I've always empathized with the poor, sick, disabled, and those without means because that could have easily being me. This is why I support greater social safety net that ensures everyone can live in dignity.
It may be unfair to her but my impression of Hillary is that the core motivation of her political life is to further power her ambition. Not necessarily bad thing, but if you compare it to someone like Bernie, I don't think he got in this to further his political ambitions.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)That's where the untrustworthy, unlikeable comes in. There isn't anything about Hillary's actions that tell me she really cares about us and wants to implement policies that will shift power away from big money.
She wants the prize and will do anything to get it.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)Ambition in men is OK dontchaknow?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Bernie has a career history of trying to make a positive difference in peoples lives.
Hillary does not.
Kinda like Bernie is honest and runs on issues, Hillary lies and has her surrogates smear with innuendo
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)of helping to create positive change in people's lives.
And there's plenty of research showing that ambition in women is interpreted more negatively than in men.
I'm sorry those facts don't fit your narrative.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Supporting monsanto & unlabelled GMOs? Accepting megabucks donations from countries at the Clinton Foindations while serving as Sec of State and then approving weapins sales to those same countries? Actively promoting fracking? Actively working to keep Haitians salaries below 75cents and hour to help US manufacturers increase profits?
If THOSE are democratic values, clearly my party of over 40 years has left me.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)Bernie included. He loses me on guns, immigration, lack of realism, and insufficient focus on gender and race.
Hillary lost me in 2008 primarily on the IWR vote. I still have some criticism of her. But that does not erase her positive record.
I can see the positives and negatives in both candidates. But like many Bernie supporters you are blind to Bernie's faults and rather one-sidedly negative on Hillary.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)I am serious. Her positions have been all over the map just in the last 8 months.
What will she DO if elected? Do you know? I believe she will swing hard right, supporting boots on the ground inSyria for one. She is clearly in favor of TPP and not labelling GMOs. She is clearly in favor of outsourcing, More H1B visas, fracking....
Bernie has been strong on civil rights and gender issues for his entire career. Hillary had to "evolve", slowly, very slowly, once the polls showed it was safe.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)You folks have built up an image of Hillary that is based on distortions. Yes, she is a bit more conservative than Bernie, but hard right? No.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)All the R's have to do is run ads of her talking with her contradicting herself.
Bernie is consistent and has worked for the people his whole life. hillary has worked for her dream of being president. Not for US, but for herself.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)but you're fine with "Send them back"?
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)As I said, all candidates have mixed records. I have criticism of both. In the end I made my choice based on which issues were most important to me and especially on who I think will make the most effective president.
840high
(17,196 posts)for selfish reasons only.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)to run for president is not seeking power and is not ambitious.
How about a young senator who had only been in the Senate 2 years before he decided to run for president? He wasn't ambitious and didn't seek power?
How about every single man who has sought to become president. They weren't ambitious or craved power?
I guess it's just Hillary who is deemed to be ambitious and power seeking.
What a truckload of manure!!!!
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Beacool
(30,249 posts)She believes in service and that she still has a lot to offer. That's not being a narcissist. You may not like her, but that doesn't mean that what you wrote is factual.
dsc
(52,162 posts)and he has the nerve to talk about other people who shouldn't have jobs. Goodman has written column after column after column that was nothing but deluded dreck.
LisaM
(27,813 posts)"Militarism, and it's affects within American society..." huh?
That said, I think he's wrong. Bernie Sanders has his own type of privilege. I say this not to denigrate his past, because I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but a woman candidate could not have lived out the same life and be viable - if she'd lived out in the woods and done odd jobs, had a child out of wedlock, came to campaign events looking rumpled, never combed her hair, and waved her arms about while debating, no one would even be looking at her. She's had to go on a different path. She may have white privilege but he definitely has male privilege!
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You saved me.
And also, ahaahahahahahahahaahaha
I could say so much about the subject line up there, but I'm in a good mood right now and don't need the grief. But if Hillary had lived in the woods until she was 40 before getting a career, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Just wtf.
People also forget Hillary wasn't born into wealth, she earned her coin. Plus, she is a woman, the world's scapegoat.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Which is terribly offensive to people trying to enjoy their god-given right to live in ignorance!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)because there's at least one 180-degree reversal of reality. Here for example he's trying to assign white male privilege to Hillary and it isn't quite working out.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)with wild hair, a 60's radical aura, a child born out of wedlock, a man who calls himself a democratic socialist, and who talks of revolution, could run for president and be taken seriously in this country?
Heck, do you think a woman, of any color, who meets that description, could?
Bernie is great, but to pretend that either a man of color, or a woman of any race or ethnicity, could be a successful politician if they shared his general outlook, life story, etc., is naive. He benefits greatly from white and male privilege.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)people in any substantial way throughout his entire political career, do you think he would be taken seriously as a presidential candidate?
Of course not.
It's bad enough that Sanders supporters try to spin his commendable, but very limited participation in the civil rights movement into Great White Hope status, but their efforts to now paint Hillary Clinton as a white privilege candidate while Bernie "earned" his success is ridiculous. This attitude is surely one of the reasons that black folks have been giving him a great big "meh."
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)It's not like she's getting a free ride on any of these issues.
It's fascinating that women have been excluded from the upper ranks of the political elite since this nation's inception and now that the first woman is managing to get in there, she's now being accused of invoking some unfair special privilege.
Where have we seen this phenomenon before?
Actually, it's kind of a hoot to see, out of the numerous white people running for president this year, it is Hillary Clinton who is singled out and accused of benefitting from white privilege - by a white man. However, no discussion of Hillary's supposed "white privilege" can be had with any integrity without considering the degree to which her femaleness offsets her whiteness. And it's pretty rich to see this claim endorsed by supporters of a candidate who, as Lisa M beautifully explains, utterly exemplifies white male privilege in America.
I call BS.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)That Hillary only got where she is because of who she married. Not her education, not being a senator or SoS, but because who she married.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I've even seen it argued that she wouldn't be where she is if she hadn't been First Lady - since, as we know, since that position has been a tried and true stepping stone for so many previous First Ladies to become President of the United States.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)If not by being attached to her husband's coattails?
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)By being elected by the residents of that state, just like HRC.
HRC is much more accomplished than her husband, so this "coattails" thing just baffles me.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Great educational accomplishments. For sure.
However, if she had not been a governor's wife and then a president's wife, would she truly have been elected as a senator for New York? A carpetbagger senator for New York? I would imagine that you are NOT going to answer that question because there is only one way to answer that question - "No."
You can write all you want about her "coulda', shoulda', woulda's," but the fact is, she got where she was because she was Bill Clinton's wife.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)It is fascinating though, to see all the Hillary supporters ignore the many, many advantages being married to Bill has afforded her. With that name (and granted, in combination with her own smarts and abilities), she has used it for all it's worth. She's an opportunist if nothing else.
I've said it before and I'll say it again now. If Hillary had divorced Bill, changed her name to Rodham and got where she is from working hard without his influence, I'd vote for her in a second.
Then again, I realize she'd never be where she is if her name wasn't Clinton.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Just like all of the other president's wives who have parlayed their spousal relationship into becoming President of the United States.
I call BS on that, too.
She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.
When Hillary Clinton graduated at the top of her law school class, she did not have the privilege her white male counterparts did of deciding to launch a "traditional" political career. She could not follow their path toward political life since women int he 1970s just didn't have that option. So she decided to marry a man who shared her commitment and go with him to Arkansas to help him with his career while working her ass off on the causes that she cared about.
When she ran for President in 2008, she was frequently told that she didn't have the right experience, that she had ONLY been a lawyer and a First Lady and that didn't qualify her to be President. Never mind that the pool of "appropriate" jobs that qualified people to become president - governor, senator, congressperson - were very homogenous pools that had, until a few years before, virtually excluded women. Interestingly, Barack Obama was accused of the same lack of "qualifications" because his career as a lawyer and community organizer supposedly didn't properly equip him to be president and he was criticized for not having been a member of the right "club" for long enough.
And since then, Hillary Clinton served as Secretary of State - not because she was Bill Clinton's wife, but because of her own qualifications. Because no one can say with a straight face that a former Secretary of State is not qualified to be president, the new argument against her is that she availed herself of the "advantages" of being the wife of a president, which makes her an opportunist since "she'd never be where she is if her name wasn't Clinton."
In other words, no matter WHAT she does, it's not good enough, something that women and minorities consistently have to deal with.
No man (at least no white man) is EVER criticized for using whatever opportunities they have.
So, I call BS on this. Loudly and clearly. B-S.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Hillary is not a victim, it's not damned if she does damned if she doesn't. Hillary has compromised herself through her own actions.
freddyt
(27 posts)...the fact that Hillary Clinton was handed a senate seat because she was the wife of a former POTUS.
I would also say that she was handed the SoS position as a strategic move by Obama to avoid being primaried in 2012 and not because she was the most qualified.
And I can definitely say with a straight face that having been a Secretary of State does not automatically qualify to be a POTUS.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)By the people of New York.
No one forced the electorate to do that. And, she served her constituents well.
Goof lord.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)With a built-in machine ready to put her in office?
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)That term must mean something different in Texas than it does in NC.
lolz
thanks for the laugh
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)The term has broader usage, now; doncha' know?
She moved to another state and the powers that be bankrolled her into office.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=carpet+bagger.
And, OMG, Hillary is used as the example!
"Today, the phrase refers to someone who moves to a new location for opportunistic reasons.
Hillary is a carpet bagger."
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Thanks.
swilton
(5,069 posts)FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 12:28 AM - Edit history (3)
What White Male Privilege
Gets you in 2016 America
by FrenchieCat
You can run for President
walking around at 75,
screaming Political Revolution,
with a heavy Brooklyn accent.
Hailing from a small blue state,
promising to raise your taxes,
and re-fight the healthcare battle,
even though this one's not done.
Pushing 30 trillion in spending,
and that's just for early starters,
with no FP bonafide besides a vote,
in a time of global terror,
while appearing disheveled,
waving hands around.
Having a family history
that's quite complicated,
and being non religious
(even if he was born Jewish)
and not being the slightest worried
how that might go down.
With only a BA in Political science,
and Socialist affiliations
promises to redistribute the wealth,
with documented speeches orating
to turn capitalism upside down.
Promising everybody Free everything,
knowing damn well Congress' gerrymandered
to stay that way for years to come,
without an actual answer to HOW
any of it will get done!
Have some folks truly believing
he can win many Primaries
to go on to the general election
and beat the other running
to become the President!
So I disagree with the premise
that White males are suffering,
because all one needs to have going on,
is White Skin, male parts, and a microphone.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)LexVegas
(6,067 posts)freddyt
(27 posts)This is the most ridiculous characterization of what "privilege" means that I've ever seen.
Ignoring that you're doubling down on the $30 trillion spending canard that's so retarded even Republicans aren't even touching it, you fail to understand that Sanders DOES NOT have the privilege of not being criticized for his positions, even by so-called "liberals" in the Democratic party.
He also doesn't have the privilege of not having to oppose one of the dirtiest Democratic primary campaigns in recent memory. The smear tactics you Hillary supporters are employing would make even Teabaggers proud.
He also doesn't have the privilege of being showered with money by super PACs.
American politics is littered with failed candidacies by old white heterosexual, cis-gendered males pushing so-called "socialist" policies. Do you really think the "red fear" that's been ingrained in the American psyche for the past 70+ years goes out the window because this particular "socialist" is running against a female?
If honestly you think the fact that Bernie Sanders even stands a chance against Clinton is due to "white male privilege", you don't know what privilege means.
You ask yourself this: If Hillary Clinton been a cisgender male candidate, pushing center to center-right policies, and whose campaign is teeming with millions of dollars in super PAC money, would you honestly be supporting him?
Just face facts. Hillary Clinton is mediocre Democratic candidate with a resume filled with a lot of bullet points but little substance. The only reason she has even the slightest chance of winning the nomination is because of her privilege of being a white cisgender female with name recognition.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Who isn't poor, and who is a long-time member of the most elite and exclusive "club" in the US.
That is being a poster child of privilege in this country. Nothing wrong with that, and I'll be voting for Bernie if he gets the nomination, but this narrative that he is some unknown on the fringe is ludicrous.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)be easier for him to win if he was Hispanic
Right, because we've had dozens of Hispanic presidents -just like we've had dozens of women presidents.
They just don't get it. Being white and male gives you a huge, HUGE advantage over the rest
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)running for president?
Beacool
(30,249 posts)mr blur
(7,753 posts)Splitting sentences down into clauses,
and putting each one,
on a different line
with a random comma
here,
and there,
Does not hide the fact that,
you have very little to say worth listening to.
Granted, looks smarter than it is,
and people who know nothing about poetry
may even mistake it for the same.
But people who know anything about prose,
will recognise bad prose,
devoid of interesting ideas,
however it may be disguised!
ebayfool
(3,411 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You're certainly turning the medium on it's head.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Is this what passes as "hip" or "edgy" by Clinton supporters?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)They didn't appear to get the memo.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)If I read the article without looking at the author's name, I still glean a fundamental truth:
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is a talented woman with tremendous leadership skills and keen sense of purpose. She's survived decades of criticism from Republicans, in addition to the political baggage associated with her husband, and helped create a powerhouse within the Democratic Party. Although I'm the biggest Bernie Sanders booster on the internet, I appreciate the fact Hillary Clinton endured the sexism of the 1990's and once courageously battled Gingrich and other Republicans. She's earned a great deal of what she's built, and alongside Bill Clinton, helped redefine American politics in many respects.
However, what drives me to advocate a Bernie Sanders presidency in such a passionate manner can be summarized by the astute political evaluation of both Clintons from Joy-Ann Reid. In an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now, Ms. Reid explains a central theme of her book titled Fracture: Barack Obama, the Clintons, and the Racial Divide:
JOY-ANN REID: Yeah, it's interesting, because Hillary Clinton has had this remarkable arc over the course of her life, from being a sort of conservative, "Goldwater Girl"...
And so she sort of occupied this strange space that has mirrored the Democratic Party, that's gone left, she's gone right, she's been hawkish, she's been sort of the neocon in the party.
In my writing and in my advocacy of Bernie Sanders, I've tried to highlight this critical aspect of the 2016 Election, albeit in a more forceful manner.
Hillary Clinton has gone right, and like Ms. Reid states, "she's been hawkish, she's been sort of the neocon in the party." In addition to Joy-Ann Reid, leading historians in The New York Times have discussed Hillary Clinton's neoconservative advisers, in addition to a future "neocon" foreign policy.
Hi11ary IS a neo-con, and she is NOT the candidate I support. In fact, I cannot fathom why ANYONE supports her.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)Sanders = Good
Hillary = Bad
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)From Paul to this:
hagoodman.com
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Sanders can't have just one?
Beacool
(30,249 posts)The media has always delighted in bashing her. I doubt that she would consider them as kissing her backside.
freddyt
(27 posts)...Coach Barry Switzer (and made famous by Ann Richards), Hillary was born on 3rd base and thinks she hit a triple.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Good lord.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)A white male entered the Democratic party's race, without actually ever having been a Democrat, and people should jump to support him?
I like the woman I'm supporting and I think that she has fought just as hard, or even harder, than any man running on either side.
I find it offensive to state that she hasn't "earned" it.
freddyt
(27 posts)...to exemplify what "DINO" means, it's Hillary Clinton. That a person who's never been a Democrat can challenge for the Democratic ticket says more about Hillary Clinton than it does about Bernie Sanders and his supporters.
What exactly has Hillary Clinton ever fought "hard" for? She's been virtually handed every position of any import that she's ever held. And what exactly has she accomplished in those positions?
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)Earned for one, then earned for the other.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)It was really tough living in the governor's mansion and the White House. Hell, she didn't even have to make cookies!
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)she spent roughly 20 years of her life, working for the people of this country.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Well educated. Hard worker.
Too bad I don't admire her corporatist politics and have little respect for her.
She's left on social issues, and right on most everything else. That's just not acceptable to me.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)if you don't work within that system. Period.
And the only way to make it move any faster, is to have control of the three branches.
And we can't do that without moving some of the moderate right, leftward.
And we can't do that if we aren't trying.
We spend all our time infighting and next to nothing on outreach.
Hillary understands how our system of government works, and works the system to make change. That isn't always going to be exciting government, but it is progressive.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)for many of us to trust her.
Especially since she says one thing to the lowly subjects (ex: trade agreements), while pushing for exactly the opposite.
I'm with the Trump guy who says he's voting for Trump to "give the big middle finger to the establishment."
That's how I feel about voting for Sanders. Only I can actually trust Sanders!
Yeah, a big middle finger and a "fuck you" to the establishment.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)Bill was barely making $35K as governor. She was an attorney, a wife, a mother and the first lady of the state. That's a lot of hats she had to wear.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)None of those things, however, got her to the U.S. Senate. Bill's coattails did, and I believe that's what I was discussing.
I don't know of too many people in Congress who carpetbagged themselves into another state, and while supposedly broke, raised enough money and gathered enough clout to win a Senate seat. No, that only happens to folks like the Kennedys, Bushes, Clintons...
Beacool
(30,249 posts)His brother's coattails made it possible for him to run for the same seat that Hillary held in NY. Would you have criticized Bobby too?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Did I not mention folks like the Kennedys, Bushes, Clintons...
Honestly, many years ago, I would not have criticized Bobby Kennedy, but today I would be very, very suspicious of all political dynasties. Imo, they are a form of power amassed by a subset of the 1%.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Peace.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)These articles are really making me consider voting for Hillary.