2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPotentially serious Hillary Email news
I know people are going to immediately either jump on this or dismiss this... My intention is not for that to happen, but just to share this information. I personally can't asses want it means and won't be assuming anyone else on DU is able to either.
Spy agencies say Clinton emails closely matched top secret documents: sources
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. spy agencies have told Congress that Hillary Clinton's home computer server contained some emails that should have been treated as "top secret" because their wording matched sections of some of the government's most highly classified documents, four sources familiar with the agency reports said.
The two reports are the first formal declarations by U.S. spy agencies detailing how they believe Clinton violated government rules when highly classified information in at least 22 email messages passed through her unsecured home server.
The agencies did not find any top secret documents that passed through Clinton's server in their full version, the sources from Congress and the government's executive branch said.
However, the agency reports found some emails included passages that closely tracked or mirrored communications marked "top secret," according to the sources, who all requested anonymity. In some cases, additional classification markings meant access was supposed to be limited to small groups of specially cleared officials.
Under the law and government rules, U.S. officials and contractors may not transmit any classified information - not only documents - outside secure, government-controlled channels. Such information should not be sent even through the government's .gov email network.
It's interesting to me that:
"Clinton's lawyer, David Kendall, did not respond to a request for comment. Clinton campaign spokespeople did not respond to multiple requests for comment."
That seems unusual.
It's also interesting that they're talking about not just documents but as little as sentences or paragraphs.
http://news.yahoo.com/spy-agencies-clinton-emails-closely-matched-top-secret-213108714.html
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)FBaggins
(26,739 posts)... so that the fax could be sent through an unsecure machine.
It would be very damaging to find that he spin that "nothing was labeled as classified" was often because she (or her staff) removed the classification at her insistence.
iAZZZo
(358 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)link?
Jarqui
(10,125 posts)iAZZZo
(358 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)iAZZZo
(358 posts)Not Sure
(735 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Do you know what the TPs are? They're obviously classified.
Hint to Hillary: Never piss off the spooks.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)There is no such thing as a "classified" label. Classified documents are labeled restricted, confidential, secret and top secret. I'm sure there are other levels as well, but there is no "classified" label so technically (oh so technical) she never sent/received documents labeled "classified."
thesquanderer
(11,989 posts)so a document could be classified (categorized) as top secret, or as confidential, or whatever. Those labels represent different classifications. It makes sense, then, that "classified" itself is not its own classification, it is the overall group that all such labeled documents are part of.
Similarly, a newspapers's "classified ads" are, similarly, simply "categorized" -- what makes the ads "classified" is that some are listed under "automobiles" and and some under "real estate" and so forth. There is no category in the ads that is simply called "classified," they are *all* classified (categorized) by their sub-heading.
It makes sense, then, that the government has a range of limited access classifications (and a document that the government has "declassified" simply no longer falls within any of those classifications). Anything that falls into any of their classifications has, by semantic definition, been classified. It makes sense that "classified" itself is not a label; you don't classify something as "classified," rather something determined to fall under the category of "secret" has been classified as "secret."
Now whether she would actually use the dodge that a document classified as "secret" would have not been marked as "classified" (it would have been properly classified and marked as "secret" would be some first class parsing indeed.
840high
(17,196 posts)and broke them.
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)If so, does this information not concern you? Do you think that "Email-gate" is just a little kerfuffle that will soon blow over?
I have some nice ocean front property for sale near Las Vegas, Nevada. Are you game?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You know they did. Spies are everywhere.
Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)I hadn't seen it.
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)...thank-you!
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Easy mistake to make. Drip, drip, drip . . .
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)some of the others are small in comparison. This is actually a large legal exposure potentially.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)upstream while you're wading half way across. Probably lethal in an election. Or should be.
When the FBI is routinely leaking details of your case, the deluge is upon you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and this... primary will go on in zombie mode I almost am willing to predict. I suspect there might be some to the theory that Biden and Obama briefed Sanders before he said he was going all the way to the convention floor. And of course, we will never know if that theory holds any water.
A retired US General has said she should step down from the campaign trail. It might happen. This one, I am gobsmacked as how serious this is.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)that she did this to herself.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)She will take us down. I'm glad this is happening now. We just need it to speed up.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but her lawyer at some point will have to have that conversation with her.. two things to watch as signals, either the lawyer resigns... or he is fired. That is when you know this got to critical mass.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)At any cost .
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Sanders and President Obama at the White House?
This was not some routine meeting that has been planned in advance as both parties said. This meeting took place a few days before the Iowa Caucus. Sanders was pulled off the campaign trail.
I don't know what was said. It's useless to speculate about specifics. We can't know. However, something heavy went down. This was not some chit-chat about policy.
I think this meetings is one of the most fascinating political mysteries of the last decade.
I also find it interesting that this really bad drip, drip, drip for Clinton is happening now--after she won NV.
It's just all very intriguing.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but the IG reports, I am willing to bet, and don't ask for proof... that it landed in desk of the President of the United States... this is not bellow his pay grade. I am wondering of the FBI report and DOJ have landed there as well? This administration has been squeaky clean as far as scandals are concerned and lord knows the Rs have tried. Well, that record is about to be tarnished.
I am speculating... given history and these lovely drips, if the DOJ is actually considering charges against Clinton? If they do? And they get a Federal Judge to indict... that will be the second presidential candidate running under indictment. (They dropped the charges will Perry today). This is starting to have a certain smell, and for somebody who as a young lawyer worked in it, she should know
leveymg
(36,418 posts)time at Club Fed by now. As it is, this just drags us down slowly into the inevitable suffocating political crisis. No avoiding the abyss, now. If the decision to indict had been made six months ago, there still would have been time for an orderly succession.
They're all lawyers. They should have known better, from the President down, from start to finish. This tarnishes the brand.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)the other three are what is far more problematic from a legal exposure side of it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)This is different than the top secret documents passing through the server before they were marked as confidential. This is information taken from documents marked confidential at the time and passed through the server.
It is different and more problematic.
Logical
(22,457 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)this is a far more serious story... a very large drop
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)So it was the Readers Digest version of Top Secret government info she just sent out into the aether.
Duval
(4,280 posts)The Redheaded Guy
(90 posts)until Clinton announces she is ending her campaign.
Someone had it right on the other thread: Clinton is a walking scandal
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Even we democrats are drinking the GOP grape kool-aid.
Have we even looked at Powell's and Rice's emails? The prior two Secretary of States who also used private email servers. Oh wait, nothing to see here because they are GOP and we don't smear them.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That's what I get from that quote.
Of course, the Wishing, Whinging, and Hoping crowd has a different POV.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Kinda like polls we saw posted over and over and over and over and over....
Often times by the same poster. When they got no traction they would just be reposted a few hours later.
The difference here is that people are discussing an actual issue that pertains to the campaign, not a rough estimate about the voters.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)when they are supposed to be classed is very serious.
For the record, I understand if people who do not know how this shit works, not get that this is a very large drop. The Judicial Watch one yeah civil court, it is small. This is not.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Why is it a large drop ???
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)foreign government hacking and spies. This also exposed CIA hUMINT (human intelligence) assets, who could be dead by now.
This was essentially what Patreous was charged with and he pled it down. And for god sakes, he gave his notebook to a US Army officer... and there are suspicions her server was hacked.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-email-server-hacked-china-south-korea-germany-214546
If she was a sergeant, she potentially could be facing decades at leavenworth.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)and emailing it.
tblue37
(65,359 posts)because it wouldn't be secure, and student grades are private by law (the Buckley Amendment). If a student cannot ask us to send by email the grade on an essay or exam or for a course because it would violate a law protecting their academic records/information from exposure, then sending top secret info through an unsecure server would seem rather a BFD.
MadLinguist
(790 posts)What it shows is that some subset of the text in documents, the whole of which were classified, matches text in Hillary's emails.
That *could* mean the that text was extracted from the classified documents and emailed.
But it could just as easily (all things being equal) mean that there is text in classified documents which also appears in non-classified documents, with that text being what was emailed. Some background material about a situation could appear in both. Documents generated by teams of people in governmental agencies are like that. Some snippet is taken here, and pasted in there, because whatever it is has already been described. A document as a whole is stamped "classified" because of some part of it being sensitive (or whatever the euphemism is), but that piece of information all by itself would be meaningless. So it is placed within a context, but the context itself could be perfectly banal information.
There would need to be a whole series of text-matching tests done: snippets from classified documents vs other state documents; snippets from the emails vs non-classified documents; snippets from the emails vs public documents of the time period of the emails, say newspapers; snippets from classified documents vs public documents. THEN what needs to be shown is that a comparison between the proportion and kind of matching with the emails and the classified documents as compared to the matching found between other document sets is significantly higher and of a specific type.
I dont even like Hillary. Not one bit. But this stuff here, I personally think is a red herring. Her shit is the lying and the bank coziness.
i actually dont think she is foolish enough to extract info from a classified document. She has other way more serious flaws as a figure of power in a privileged position. To my mind, this crap is just the noise machine that drives the divide-and-conquer tactics that pass for the GOP perspective.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)The source of the excepts in the emails is vital.
However, we also need to consider if this is a risk we want to take. Does our party want to walk into October with this cannon fodder?
RunInCircles
(122 posts)This is an email Chain were Hillary apparently asked her subordinates to break the law.
They were having trouble sending a Top Secret Report by secure Fax and Hillary told them to just send the contents without the classification markers. This is illegal!
azmom
(5,208 posts)She did.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)And the Clintons (both of them) are in no short supply of it.
Look at Bill, for crying out loud...in the middle of the whitewater investigation, Rethugs looking for everything and anything they can pin on him, and what does he do? Well, you know...I mean, the finger wag and everything, wtf? That's some serious hubris. I lost a serious amount of respect for him on that day.
And now Hillary and her email/server problems...could have easily been avoided if she'd just followed the rules, but no, she apparently had to have control of that info for some reason. Why?
I don't want a POTUS with such terrible judgement, much less a narcissist and a criminal.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Thanks Hillary.
Menika65
(3 posts)The FBI or someone gets her out of the race BEFORE the National Convention, where Bernie ends up with the nomination. It would be a really sad way for him to get the nomination, but anything to keep her out of the Oval Office!
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)we're 3 states in. GOTV, get your friends, family, neighbors, coworkers motivated.
We have an option to not worry about this in the August run up to the GE.
hoosierlib
(710 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I just understand why people don't get it why
hoosierlib
(710 posts)They'll says "its just political"...all as the Dems GE chanced and Obama's legacy go down the tubes
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I'm sure you mean you just DON'T understand...
It's because we've had stolen elections we KNOW were stolen for the highest position in the land, been lied to at the SOTU, gone to war illegally and unconstitutionally, been victims of massive fraud that caused a depression....
No one's gone to jail for any of this. Why should someone who's too big to fail herself (they think) be punished for some little emails????
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)this is highly technical, and it is not just some little emails.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)No, because they just lifted from the marked document and sent it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)This is incredibly serious....
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Documents are not marked "classified". They are marked restricted, confidential, secret and top secret etc, there is no classification of "classified" when it comes to secret documents.
Believe me, her lawyer wrote that answer.
Uncle Joe
(58,363 posts)Thanks for the thread, EdwardBernays.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Hopefully this will be the end.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)she won't surrender. It's just not something she can do.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)with these negatives there is no way she will ever see the WH .
jfern
(5,204 posts)3rd party servers on the Internet. Great job, Hillary.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)There is a plan in play, make Hillary Clinton the Democratic candidate then disqualify her or at least render her un-electable.
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)Whatever
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Yeah!
I'm sure it's someone else's fault.
Maybe the small banks caused it....
jalan48
(13,866 posts)FBaggins
(26,739 posts)Those are kept on secure servers. That stuff is important!
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)poor Hillary - being destroyed by the very people she is trying to help.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)gad...
Duval
(4,280 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)This isn't Judicial Watch. This is serious. Get out of denial
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Hillary using a private server for day to day communications is republican shit.
Hillary knowingly sending ANY classified information on her private server is a crime. There are emails that indicate she did just that. If so, she's going to be indicted. Then what?
zentrum
(9,865 posts)..turn against you and add fuel to the fireit's pretty serious. And unusual.
salib
(2,116 posts)I do not care about her emails!
How can we,as liberals, care about the vagarities of state secrets? This is conservative and authoritarian logic.
Why? Why? Why?
Could it be many simply want Hillary to have problems, no matter what the reason?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)He was taking Hillary at her word (not generally a good idea) that she didn't send any classified information. More and more evidence is saying she did.
The law is very clear on this. If Hillary broke the law, and it appears she knowingly might have, do Democrats insist she gets a pass? You might not care about it, but most people will.
The thing with Hillary is that she seems to be a walking problem creator. We don't want her to have problems, she just has them.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)She's run out of excuses and people to blame?
Paka
(2,760 posts)Let the happy news keep coming.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)A leading Democratic politician, someone who has been on the forefront of decision making, and someone who has been deeply involved in foreign policy, has made such an enormous mistake that could cost us the WH is not happy news.
Millions upon millions are suffering, truly suffering, and there is so little hope offered. Even a win with Bernie is little hope. He will be hamstrung from the beginning that his only option will be to spend his first four years campaigning for Democrats so we can retake the House and Senate in 2018 and 2020.
A revolution.
This is not happy news. It's a travesty that our opponent is even close to us with this kind of baggage.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Top secret info was cut out of documents classified as such and pasted into new emails for another reason without relabeling the new documents as secret or top secret.
Do we really want to risk this in GE? Do we really want to risk a candidate so mired in controversy in such a pivotal election cycle?
Does anyone think when the primary is over this will all suddenly go away and let Hillary stroll her way into the WH?
I've read here over and over SCOTUS SCOTUS SCOTUS!!!11!!111!
Always from Hillary supporters. Hmmpf.. It might be time to think about the message you push so often.
hay rick
(7,618 posts)According to this article, information that was not classified at the time but "tracked or mirrored" some content of documents that were classified after the fact would qualify as subjects for this investigation. The sources, all anonymous, do not dispute the contention that no complete documents were sent. They are not even willing to state that parts of such documents were directly quoted but say they "tracked or mirrored" some content. The article states that some of the material related to drone strikes against Islamist militants in the Middle East and South Asia but also notes that, while the strikes were officially classified (or re-classified, it appears) as a "Top Secret/Special Access Program," they were also widely reported by Reuters and other news outlets.
Anonymous sources. Reclassified documents. Super Duper Top Secret information that was widely reported in the press. If there is a meaningful development I don't see it reported in this article. A smear campaign would not look any different.
Jarqui
(10,125 posts)However, the agency reports found some emails included passages that closely tracked or mirrored communications marked "top secret," according to the sources, who all requested anonymity. In some cases, additional classification markings meant access was supposed to be limited to small groups of specially cleared officials.
I saw this report about four weeks ago in right wing papers - including the NY Post.
They have depositions from the CIA and the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community that confirm that information that was classified at the time of transmission was on her server.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)Having handled TS/SCI information in the past, I can tell you that this directive breaks the law in multiple ways. She knew better and that email is the smoking gun that she authorized it. If this had been me when I held clearance, I'd already be cooling my feet in a cell.
With that said, she will never be charged because she is not one of the little people. Petraeus didn't get charged for knowingly giving away classified information, I highly doubt they'll charge Hillary.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)I can't believe that she initiated such a poorly thought out e-mail system in today's political climate.
Bernblu
(441 posts)She is finished if she actually did what this article alleges or if she told Jacob Sullivan to remove the classification heading from a classified document to send it over to an unsecured server. Had I done this on my job I would have been immediately fired and probably prosecuted..
FBaggins
(26,739 posts)Stupidity she may lack.
Hubris she has in surplus.
DiehardLiberal
(580 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)same old useless information.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)As has been noted repeatedly.
Whether or not it's meaningful I can't say.
But it is new.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)U guys have been speaking on those emails since forever. Nothing is going to come of it. NOTHING.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Did you read it? Or just see the word email and post a dismissive comment?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Gotta work on making all these posts seem more individual guys.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Sure, none of the e-mails were classified until after the fact, so I've tended to dismiss the scandal...but if people were copying and pasting from classified documents, that speaks of major sloppiness for which the SecState would bear at least some responsibility.
I think it unlikely that Clinton invented such practices. State has long been known as a palace of arrogance, so we should also ask how long these things have been going on. Context would tell us how eeeeeeeeeeevil Hillary was.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)And there's evidence that there was some effort to get around using the classified system... For convenience at least.
I think this goes back to why they want to question her aides under oath; was this a deliberate attempt to circumvent accountability or was this just very sloppy and potentially dangerous behaviour.
And I would also say that if Hillary has to testify and has to say that she didn't know - ie she blames her staff - it's going to be a huge political football.
And of course allllllll of this helps Trump. Or any Republican nominee.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)she or Huma instructed staff to copy the top secret email without the official coding on the original document that would prevent the document from being re-transmitted. And then transmitted the altered document. She willfully circumvented the law.