Has Bernie Sanders ever turned his back on African Americans?

[Bread and Circus]

In his personal life or political life?

[LexVegas]

1. We dont know after the late 60s. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Yes. When he gave the interview to NPR in late 2014. nt

[Bread and Circus]

25. Can you add to that?

[rurallib]

51. Please give a link or reference

I find this hard to believe and would like some reference, please.

[litlbilly]

3. No, and he's never pandered to them with cameras for political gain.

[MADem]

4. Vermont has. To my knowledge, he's never weighed in to try and fix the problem.

Nearly ELEVEN PERCENT of VT's incarcerations are black. Just over ONE PERCENT of VT's population is black.

If you are black, you have a better chance of getting arrested in VT than you do in Ferguson, MO.

And VT has the 2nd highest incarceration rate of black people in the NATION. It's not a good look.


Extraordinary claims require proof, I realize:

http://mic.com/articles/124341/here-s-how-black-people-actually-fare-in-vermont-with-bernie-sanders-as-their-senator#.KlLoI7eXX

What does this mean? Black Vermonters make up just 1.2% of the state's general population, but 10.7% of its incarcerated population. Meaning that, proportionally, there are nearly 10 times more black people locked up in Vermont's jails and prisons on a given day than there are walking its streets.

Few in Vermont seem able to explain how this happened. The black incarceration rate grew faster than any other in the state between 1993 and 2007, before it leveled out and stayed relatively constant. But shortly before its peak, the Sentencing Project reported that Vermont had the second-highest black-to-white incarceration rate in America — topped only by Iowa, another state with a small black population.

Monica Weeber, administrative services director at the Vermont Department of Corrections, says it's hard to parse where this disparity sources from. "I don't really have the knowledge to speak to it specifically," she told Mic. "But it's clearly a systemic issue. Different people will give you different responses — but honestly, at the D.O.C., by the time people come to us the decision to incarcerate them has already been made."

Neither Matthew Valerio, Vermont's defender general, nor Robin Weber, director of research at the Crime Research Group — a Vermont think tank — could point to specific policies that might have led to such rapid growth. "I have no information as to why," Valerio told Mic. "The simple answer is that there's bias in the system. But it could also be coincidental."

[Lucinda]

5. I knew the numbers were bad in VT but wow!

That's truly horrible.

[MADem]

7. They don't even incarcerate them in VT--they ship them to a private for profit prison in Michigan.

They were in a prison in KY but they have been moved to a place in MI that sounds pretty awful.


http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2015/07/30/vt-inmates-complain-michigan-prison/30911093/

Sanders should encourage the governor to change this. It's kind of cruel when people are shipped far away from their families--no opportunity for visitation without a plane ride, etc. Can get expensive.

[Lucinda]

10. Holy cow. That is even worse than I thought.

I had no idea it was that bad, and just read recently that their incarceration numbers for blacks was hella high. I hadn't dug into it any deeper. That is despicable.

[oasis]

18. From Vermont to private for profit prisons?

Bernie surely has spoken out about this. Please,pleaseeese someone tell me that he has.

[eridani]

20. Yes. he has spoken against the private prisons that donate to Clinton n/t

[MADem]

35. He has not addressed state incarceration OR the problem with the high number of black convictions

from VT.

He has very recently written a bill, that has zero co-sponsors, opposing FEDERAL "for profit" prisons but that would do nothing to help these Vermonters. This is a state thing. Those are his constituents.

[Basement Beat]

33. Good Grief...

This is sickening. How is this not considered government sponsored slavery?

[Bluenorthwest]

42. The State with the most out of State Privately Incarcerated prisoners is California, whose Senators

have been Boxer and Feinstein for many long years, which has an Ultra Blue Statehouse, which has Governor Brown. They have over 2,500 held in CCA owned facility in Mississippi. More in Arizona.

Hawaii keeps about 1,500 prisoners in Arizona their Senators are Democrats Hirono and Schatz and Democrat David Ige is Governor.

But of course, this only matters in the case of Bernie and Vermont. These others are absolved and no association exists, they are US Senators not involved in State level things and those Governors, their hands are tied. But Bernie, he's ultra culpable. Locks the cells personally.

[Hiraeth]

68. And ... correct me if I am wrong, please ... the Governors have more jurisdiction over this issue?

[LexVegas]

12. Eye opening. nt

[MADem]

14. It surprised me, but then when I thought about it, it didn't.

There are some places that are just more welcoming than others. Some "liberal" places aren't all that liberal in all ways--I was stunned to learn of the horrible institutional bigotry in the "liberal" Pacific Northwest, too.

[lunamagica]

16. Those numbers are just awful.

[MADem]

17. The whole private prison thing leaves a bad taste, too. nt

[eridani]

22. Why don't you take that up with Shumlin, the actual governor of the state?

You know, the guy with an important role in actually setting state policy.

[hack89]

32. Why was Bernie silent? Moral persuasion beyond his abilities? nt

[MADem]

37. Shumlin loves the private prison model--he has said as much.

You'd think the VT delegation, all three of them, would try to change his mind. They haven't.

One of the things that helps a prisoner in his incarceration is access to positive visitation from family members--that's kind of hard to do if you're loved one is in another state.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. And what of CA? Hawaii? Both have Democratic Senators and Governors, huge out of State private

prison populations. CA has the most Democratic Statehouse in the US I think. What of them? If this is about the issue and the prisoners all of them should be mentioned. One wonders why this has never come up in the past, why has Governor Brown not been confronted by Barb and Diane? Nancy? That giant delegation in the House?

[MADem]

45. Don't you think it's weird that Sanders very recently ginned up a PRIVATE PRISONS BAD bill,

aimed at FEDERAL prisons only, that has zero co-sponsors, and will probably go nowhere like most of his bills, but he's ignored the elephant in his own STATE's room? For over TWO DECADES?

I do.

His "concern" re: this issue seems opportunistic, at best.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. I think it is good that he's using the platform he has to speak against the very idea of private

prisons, which are bad. The people who are ignoring their elephants are those who are entirely silent about the issue. People you issue a pass to. Your argument utterly castigates Boxer, Feinstien, Schatz and Hirono, who are Senators Democratic from States who do the same on far larger scale who have no said a word against it, not introduced any legislation to say this is bad. And what of Brown and Ige? Governors, Democratic. Shipping people off across waters, across continents year after year while no one on DU says a thing. Californians spend lots of time telling us how super Blue they are. They have the most out of State prisoners. Less than they used to. Still more than anyone.
So if this is a spike to Bernie's heart in your eyes, it's very much the same spike to those other Democratic Senators, including the Democrat from Vermont.

Personally I think it is odd to both object to this system and yet criticize the only person speaking out against that system while offering no criticism to the several of his peers whose States do the same, all of whom remain totally silent on the issue in all ways. Four Democratic Senators who won't even co-sponsor Bernie's bill to start addressing this problem in the one direct way US Senators can address it.

Double Standard is not really any standard at all.

[MADem]

49. You're gish galloping away. None of that laundry list is running for POTUS.

He wants a bigger job than the one he--or Boxer, Feinstein, Gish and Gallop--is current holding.

If he wants a bigger job, he is going to get bigger scrutiny. This is what vetting looks like.

We're talking about HIM, not THEM. He put a leash on that elephant and LED it into the room by creating a bill with no co-sponsors, IN an election year, that gripes about private prisons but wouldn't even correct the situation for HIS OWN CONSTITUENTS. His bill only addresses federal institutions.

See? He's trying to play "I am the GOOD GUY!" with regard to this issue, and it is only fair to point out that the GOOD GUY has ignored his OWN people for twenty years when it comes to this issue, and then, when he crafts vanity legislation to make it appear that he's "doing something," the legislation doesn't even help his own constituents.

[eridani]

66. Obviously a federal law against private prisons applies only to federal prisons. n/t

[Depaysement]

26. And where are the numbers better?

New York City? Arkansas?

What bullshit.

[MADem]

38. Everywhere--except Wisconsin. They're Number One. VT is Number Two. nt

[Depaysement]

56. Not true

Iowa, Wisconsin, South Dakota all had worse records.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_stateratesofincbyraceandethnicity.pdf

Of course the study is nine years old. And Sanders, as a Senator, doesn't run the State; the Governor and Legislature do that.

[MADem]

58. No, it's true. You persist in comparing your oranges to my VT apples. Further, my links are

from the last few months, not nine years old.

As for the rest of your complaints, they've been addressed in the thread already.

[Depaysement]

63. Sorry, not true

Read the link form the article and go to the chart highlighting black incarceration per 100,000 people. You will see Vermont does better than South Dakota, Wisconsin and Iowa.

[Mufaddal]

6. Hmmm

[MADem]

8. You could trash the thread--better than insinuating that someone having a discussion is a troll.

That little gif is pretty uncivil, if you ask me. One could say the same of you, if they were going to be rude.

[Bread and Circus]

19. Actually I want to hear what people have to say on this. I am curious.

I am curious what people have to say and what the perceptions are.

[Mufaddal]

30. Thanks for clearing it up, I was genuinely confused.

To me, the way the question was phrased could have either been read as sincerely curious or intentionally provocative.

As for my own view, I don't believe he ever has. I also don't think the implication that because Vermont has a dramatically skewed prison population (which, incidentally, is now at it's lowest in years--about 1,700 prisoners last I checked) is evidence that Bernie doesn't care about black or brown people. (I am from VT, and also seem to remember that a part of our inmate population was overflow from other states, which is not that uncommon, but I may be totally wrong about that.) First of all, Bernie was never a representative in the state house, and secondly he was never governor. Third, if we accept that the demographics of VT's prison population is actually an indicator about Bernie's support or lack thereof for black and brown people, then we would also need to say that Obama does not care about them either, because look at the federal prison system's demographics.

I think it's fairly clear from any fair review of Bernie's own history--not just civil rights, but his activism in general on both national and international issues, his work on behalf of Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition, and his talking points in congress and the senate--that it would be grossly unfair to say that he ever "turned his back" on the fight against racism or on the black working class in general.

There are areas where, in my view, Bernie's positions have gotten a lot weaker over time, and by which I've been disappointed, but this isn't one of them.

[MADem]

39. VT's POPULATION is one of the smallest in the nation. They've about as many people as Boston,

and Boston is not a "big" city.

He hasn't helped address this issue, and benign neglect over a period of twenty years is perhaps as hurtful.

VT is a white state, though--the concerns of one percent of the population don't seem to resonate.

[Mufaddal]

41. As I stated

One is free to draw that conclusion, but ought to apply their logic consistently. Thus, if you want to hang that around Bernie, then both Obama and certainly Bill Clinton are guilty of "benign neglect" over a similar period of years--and given their position in government, the argument could be made that they are in fact guiltier.

[MADem]

47. No, they aren't.

Barack Obama wasn't in DC for 25 years, he was barely a Senator before he was elevated to the WH, and Bill Clinton never served in Congress and, in fact, has been out of political life for sixteen years, now. This is about a legislator crafting vanity legislation to create an impression he gives a shit.

Sanders has been aware of this situation for years. It's been happening in his own state AND at the federal level. Yet all of a sudden, he has an overwhelming interest, after all these years of ignoring it IN HIS OWN STATE, in private prisons.

In an election year.

Perhaps after his staff noticed that a company involved in the industry donated to his opponent, they thought it would be a good idea to put his foot in this issue. He even writes a bill about it (with zero co-sponsors, you know what that means). Seems odd that he'd wait a quarter century, until he's running for POTUS, to demonstrate this "concern."

And to make matters worse, his proposed legislation (which will not pass) doesn't even ADDRESS state funding for these institutions--his bill would not help his OWN constituents.

He's pandering. Thing is, if you're going to pander, show some evidence of doing that pandering at home--where charity begins, after all.

[Mufaddal]

48. Your concern trolling is noteworthy

Because if you sincerely believed the hacky speculative rhetoric you're spouting about Sanders, then you'd be doubly pissed about Clinton's record.

Have a nice life.

[MADem]

52. Calling me a troll is rude, uncivil, nasty--and one of the things that makes DU suck.

I won't alert on you but I will call you out, and suggest that instead of shitting on people, you spend a little time reading the TOS.

Just because people don't happen to like what YOU like does not make them a troll. It's more likely that a newcomer who has been here for one lousy month, who comes here exclusively to berate people who don't feel like he does is, in fact, a troll.


You should be ashamed of yourself. And FWIW, I HAVE a nice life--with or without you in it.

smh.

[MaggieD]

9. Yes, when he called for a primary on the first AA president

And of course when he voted for mass incarceration and against gun control.

[LexVegas]

11. Truth.nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

29. Emotionalism. Not truth.

Not even Truth's fifth cousin.

[TCJ70]

13. First of all...

...one guy, is not the AA community.

Second...it was that or vote against women. What would you do? He also was quite vocal in his dissatisfaction with the bill as written.

Third...this depends on what you mean. If you mean the Brady Bill, yes.

[MADem]

15. Yes--that WAS a really BAD move. nt

[eridani]

21. I see. Now supporting measures against violence against women is bad n/t

[MADem]

40. Excuse me? Calling for our Democratic POTUS to be primaried has something to do with

"supporting measures against violence against women...." or something? Where did you invent THAT?

You need to follow the doggone thread.

That was just a very odd thing to say. Explain yourself.

[eridani]

23. In the context of the Catfood Committion, which was a major attack on retirees and

veterans.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. Calling for a vote is very unDemocratic.

Calling for a primary on a sitting Centrist is even worse. DWS forever!

[Depaysement]

27. You mean the guy Hillary ran against?

Oh, yeah, that guy.

[MADem]

50. Yeah, and when Sanders was calling for that primary, Hillary was Barack's SECSTATE.

So oops, yup, duh

[Depaysement]

55. And Hillary ran against Barack

Oh, wait, that didn't happen.

Not saying this is your view, but this ephemeral notion conjured up by some that Bernie disrespected us because he thought the President should be primaried is just an excuse to race-bait. It is obvious to everyone that Bernie is not a racist.

Admit it - Bernie is trying to push the party to the left and you just don't like it.

[MADem]

57. Go check the timeline. Hillary CAMPAIGNED for Barack in 2008 after he won the nomination.

Or are you forgetting about that?


Bill Clinton CAMPAIGNED for him in 2012. In fact, he saved Obama's bacon after a rather moribund early start and revitalized his campaign with a barn burning speech at the convention:

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/09/12/160995401/bill-clinton-obamas-new-secretary-of-explaining-stuff-takes-show-on-road



Try again. You're failing. This is utter nonsense and does not reflect my POV at all:

Admit it - Bernie is trying to push the party to the left and you just don't like it.

What I "like" is my preferred, savvy, highly experienced, Ready-On-Day-One candidate--should she not prevail (and it's looking more and more likely that she will prevail) I will vote for the primary winner.

Democrats don't advocate primarying other Democrats--it's a rude and nasty thing to do. It divides the party, and it can often end up losing the White House. Go ask Jimmy Carter about that. He'll give you an earful.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

31. "Yes, when he called for a primary on the first AA president"

...which he only did because Obama is black, right?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. Several arguments can be made, and have been, that at least have some merit.

A) That he basically ignored AA in Vermont during his time as a national level politician. Some truth to this, Leahy was certainly more involved with AA during that period.

B) He voted for the Crime Omnibus in 94. Yes, it was an omnibus, and included such things as the Violence Against Women Act, which he strongly wanted, and yes, he condemned other parts, because he suspected they would play out poorly, and time proved that right. But he did, in the end, vote for it, and the results have been disastrous.

I would certainly suggest that Hillary Clinton, however, has gone out of her way to embrace policies that disadvantage and outright harm AAs. She supported and tried to help influence voters to elect a segregationist. She cheerled that crime omnibus bill, and as we have videos to prove, she was specifically cheerleading the parts that did enormous damage to black families and communities. She championed and cheerled the destruction of welfare, and bills to prevent ex-cons from receiving public assistance.

So while Sanders has at best a mixed record when it comes to AA issues, Clinton has consistently pushed large scale policies that are detrimental to AAs, while doing smaller charity work to provide photo-ops to present her as their friend.

[Basement Beat]

34. Appreciate the breakdown...

Unfortunately its an example of how Black people in this country will be long forgotten once the election cycle is over and continue to have several creative ways pushed forward to continue to do harm to the community - regardless of whose in office.

[MADem]

44. Forgotten? I don't think so. Hillary HIRES black (and brown, and other minority) people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-has-the-most-diverse-campaign-staff-report-finds_us_55aecd9be4b0a9b94852e873


Hillary Clinton Has The Most Diverse Campaign Staff, Report Finds
Clinton's campaign staff is nearly one-third non-white.



http://www.fastcompany.com/3055032/most-creative-people/how-the-hillary-clinton-campaign-built-a-staff-as-diverse-as-america

The campaign’s diversity extends far beyond career history. Over 50% of the campaign is female. Of the campaign’s more than 500 staffers nationwide, more than one-third are people of color; nearly 40% of Hillary for America's senior staff are people of color. Regional press secretary Tyrone Gayle points out that these numbers roughly reflect national demographics.

She always has.

[forjusticethunders]

59. You know who else had a really diverse staff?

George W. Bush, especially his Cabinet. So having a diverse staff doesn't really do much for me.

[MADem]

60. Not sure what you're saying here. That "diversity is bad?"

What is your point? Hillary should hire a load of white people?

smh!

[forjusticethunders]

61. That having a diverse staff means very little in material terms to POC

Lots of powerful entities embrace "diversity" in order to "brownwash" policies that hurt POC who lack means, both here and around the world.

Unless you want to argue that the Bush Administration was great for black people???

[MADem]

62. Yes, it does mean a lot--that is where you are wrong.

Of course it depends on WHO the person is--a Condi Rice is NOT and never will be a Susan Rice, for example--but it DOES make a difference to see a staff at all levels that looks like America.

You're the one who dragged Bush into this conversation, and your logic really wasn't too clear.

If you haven't been one of the people who, historically, were left out in the cold when it came to equality of opportunity, you just cannot appreciate how very important it is.

[forjusticethunders]

64. and here we go

Disagreeing with someone makes me not black anymore, simply because I don't see the material benefit to POC if the powers that be give oppression a black or brown face.

[MADem]

65. Don't take that attitude, it's not deserved nor is it fair.

What you should appreciate, though, is that there is more than one POV, and appearances, doggone it, DO MATTER.

Ask this lady who has waited 106 years:

https://www.facebook.com/abcnews/videos/10154138970368812/?fref=nf

[Bread and Circus]

36. Thanks. I started this thread because I want to see all the grievances laid out on the table.

I appreciate the response.

[frazzled]

53. I'd say he did, in a way, by ...

moving to Vermont in 1968, and remaining there to form a basis for his political life. Vermont, as we all know, ranks 49th among the 50 states in its percentage of population that is African American ... 0.87%. That's not even 1%.
(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population ).

He could have remained on the South Side of Chicago after graduating, in a city that is 32% black. Or he could have stayed in his native New York. (Brooklyn in those days had a large black population, before its gentrification.) The states of Illinois and New York both have populations of African Americans of around 15% statewide.

Compare that to what, say, Barack Obama did after college. Even with a prestigious Harvard Law degree, he moved to Chicago and worked as a community organizer in the city's black neighborhoods, and remained there to begin his political career. Or even Hillary Clinton, who with an equally prestigious law degree from Yale, chose not to join a prestigious law firm but took a job with the Children's Defense Fund, and then on moving to Arkansas (15.76% black population) ran a legal aid clinic at the University of Arkansas.

By removing himself to Vermont, Bernie Sanders also removed himself from the real issues of urban black populations, in education, housing, criminal justice, fair hiring, etc. From that edenic perch, he could continue to focus on ideological concerns, far often looking upward at the billionaire classes as the focus of his interest, and rarely downward at the citizens of color he'd left behind in New York and Chicago. He knows the right answers in order to get votes. But he has not lived it. Not in the past 45 years.

I lived in New England for a while, and I have lived in Chicago for the past 11 years. It is a city where we know our black issues and black history and culture (the city was founded by a black man, Jean Baptiste Pointe du Sable, and was a major center of the Great Migration, producing artists, writers, and musicians of great renown). We work together and eat together at the same restaurants and vote together. My state representative and US Congressman are black. I'm voting for a whole slew of incredible black women in the March 15 primaries. For white liberals, living in an urban, multi-ethnic environment forces you to confront the day-to-day issues of minorities in ways that living in a homogeneous, rural state does not. I've seen it myself.

[Bread and Circus]

54. Interesting perspective. Thanks.

[Hiraeth]

67. Haven't you heard? He's tonedeaf ... and ... it is neverending

The Neverending Tone Deafness of Bernie Sanders
By Bravenak
Thursday Feb 25, 2016 · 8:07 PM EST

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/25/1491492/-The-Neverending-Tone-Deafness-of-Bernie-Sanders?_=2016-02-25T17:16:19-08:00