Here's How Black People Actually Fare in Bernie Sanders' Home State

[fun n serious]

What does this mean? Black Vermonters make up just 1.2% of the state's general population, but 10.7% of its incarcerated population. Meaning that, proportionally, there are nearly 10 times more black people locked up in Vermont's jails and prisons on a given day than there are walking its streets.


http://mic.com/articles/124341/here-s-how-black-people-actually-fare-in-vermont-with-bernie-sanders-as-their-senator#.A1badKsYx

[CBGLuthier]

1. Not much better in NY or Arkansas or Illinois whatever state Clinton calls home

This is an American problem that has jackshit to so with Senators. Nice try though. I guess you all know that if she does not crush him in S. Carolina her mythical firewall will be shown for what it is.

Desperation is such an ugly thing.

[fun n serious]

2. Sanders can no longer blame Hillary.

Mass incarcerations of blacks is happening in his own state. What is he doing about it? It's not ugly, it's true. Your peeps post far worse about Hillary.

[JonLeibowitz]

4. Unfortunately, Senators and Congressman have little legislative clout in their state.

It's how the constitution sets things up.

Now, he may have some authority as a thought leader in his state, but no actual legislative role in forming state policy.

[fun n serious]

16. Given the problem in Vermont couldn't he have acted on it?

Has he ever suggested any legislative action?

[beam me up scottie]

52. How does a US Senator "act on it" or "suggest legislation" on a state level?

[fun n serious]

54. His constituents felt better with the other Vermont senator on these issues.

“Racial profiling is a fact of life here,” said Vaughn Carney, a black lawyer in the state who has supported Sanders in every election but plans to vote for Hillary Clinton for president.

“Vermont incarcerates people at the fourth highest rate in the U.S., but no one talks about that. I have been beating on that drum for a while now, and I hoped that Bernie would up that mantle, but he has not. He is like a lot of Vermonters who like to congratulate themselves on how progressive they are but sweep these issues under the rug.”

Carney said that he and other black leaders in the state often turned to Vermont’s other senator, Patrick Leahy, for matters pertaining to the community."

[beam me up scottie]

55. Red herring, where did they say anything about state legislation?

You're just throwing shit at the wall now hoping it will stick.

Now answer the questions, how does a US Senator enact state legislation?

[fun n serious]

58. He couldn't be a sponsor of a bill?

wrt race issues?

[beam me up scottie]

59. Jesus Christ. No, he can't, Bernie's a US Senator.

[cui bono]

106. No, US Senators cannot sponsor state legislation. Please stop trying so hard.

You need to understand how govt works. There's a difference between state government and federal government.

.

[oasis]

68. In other words, Bernie neither walked the walk nor talked the talk.

Not a sign of true leadership I'm afraid.

[fun n serious]

75. His constituents went to the other Senator for community issues...

He could have been more involved in the community, could have brought concerns to the Governor.. Nada.

[beam me up scottie]

79. All of them? "Bernie Sanders get support of Black Lives Matter activists in Vermont"

Bernie Sanders get support of Black Lives Matter activists in Vermont

Posted: Feb 12, 2016 2:21 PM CST
By The Associated Press

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is receiving the support of the Black Lives Matter movement in his home state.

Dozens of activists gathered at the Vermont Statehouse Friday to call for a racial justice agenda in the state, including more hiring of African-American teachers and school administrators and more accountability for state agency hiring practices.

The event came a day after congressman and long-time civil rights leader John Lewis endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, and said he doesn't recall meeting Sanders during key events of the 1960s civil rights era.

Participants including Rajnii Eddins expressed deep respect for Lewis, but said they're less concerned about what people were doing in the 1960s than what they are doing and saying now.

Some credited Sanders with representing Vermont's open style of government.

http://www.wrex.com/story/31210380/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-get-support-of-black-lives-matter-activists-in-vermont

[fun n serious]

84. I think you better read your link....

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) -
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is receiving the support of the Black Lives Matter movement in his home state.

Dozens of activists gathered at the Vermont Statehouse Friday to call for a racial justice agenda in the state, including more hiring of African-American teachers and school administrators and more accountability for state agency hiring practices.

The event came a day after congressman and long-time civil rights leader John Lewis endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, and said he doesn't recall meeting Sanders during key events of the 1960s civil rights era.

Participants including Rajnii Eddins expressed deep respect for Lewis, but said they're less concerned about what people were doing in the 1960s than what they are doing and saying now.

Some credited Sanders with representing Vermont's open style of government.

[beam me up scottie]

88. I think you'd better read it, apparently those activists don't think he's ignoring them.

[fun n serious]

93. Your link suggests they are glad he is NOW reaching out to them...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/vermont-s-black-leaders-we-were-invisible-to-bernie-sanders.html

[beam me up scottie]

96. No it doesn't say that at all. Read it again.

Your claim was that his constituents felt ignored, apparently not all of them agree with you.

[MaggieD]

105. Both of mine do - all the time

[beam me up scottie]

107. Lol! Your US Senators enact legislation at the state level? Sure they do.

[MaggieD]

113. They suggest stuff all the time - and coordinate with the gov and state Dems

It's actually quite common when it's all the same party. Cons do it too. Sounds like you don't have a ton of experience in state politics.

[beam me up scottie]

115. But they don't enact legislation at the state level, thanks!

[MaggieD]

118. They have heavy influence

But it's just silly to suggest they don't suggest or have major input. I don't know if you really believe that or you're just making excuses for Bernie. But you're wrong, either way.

[beam me up scottie]

119. I'm not the one who didn't understand that US senators can't sponsor legislation at the state level.

But you get a cookie for adding your 2 cents!

🍪

[MaggieD]

122. Maybe you need to reread your post

But I think the real issue is you want to excuse Bernie. I think we both know that.

[beam me up scottie]

123. I don't have anything to excuse him for, but nice try. He's a US Senator not a state legislator.

And we both know that he's not responsible for incarceration rates or private prisons at the state level.

[MaggieD]

124. Well AA in Vermont seem to think you do

I think I'll trust their opinions over yours.

[beam me up scottie]

125. They all think he's responsible? Do tell. How many Vermonters have you talked to?

Did you record the conversation or am I supposed to take your word for it?

[MaggieD]

126. Another poster already told you - with quotes

Remember? And then you excused Bernie even though the AA being quoted said Bernie ignores AA issues. It's just up thread - you can't have forgotten that quickly.

[beam me up scottie]

127. Except we're discussing incarceration rates and the prison system in Vermont, remember?

Where did they say they blamed him for that?

[MaggieD]

128. Well he voted for mass incarceration

So I don't know how you excuse that one. He DID help enact that.

[beam me up scottie]

129. Focus, where did they blame him for Vermont's incarceration rates and prison system?

If you can't prove that claim we're done here, this is just an attempt to further derail the thread.

[MaggieD]

130. There you go trying to excuse him again

Are you saying he was for federal mass incarceration, but against state mass incarceration? How would you advise him to explain that to AA in Vermont?

Lol!

[beam me up scottie]

131. So you can't prove the claim and are moving the goalposts again.

Just as I thought.

Ciao!

[MaggieD]

132. I didn't make any claim - the AA folks in VT made the claims

I'm just saying I have no trouble believing them. Why do you?

[hack89]

146. My Senators are very influential at the state level

If nothing else, they ensure that the issues don't get buried and forgotten.

[restorefreedom]

149. why, magic of course.

and if he can't manage THAT, whats he even doing running against she who can do all?

or something.

[AgingAmerican]

53. He isn't a member of the state legislature

[Semtex]

78. You mean like Hillarios did?

Oh no, the only thing she ever did was to call them super predators and take money from the for profit prison industry.

[nichomachus]

171. Mass incaceration of minorities comes courtesy of the Clintons

They own it -- lock, stock, and barrel no matter what state it occurs in. To try to blame anyone else for the treachery of Hill&Bill inc. is dishonest. But then, The Clintons and their acolytes are known for that.

[MADem]

7. VT has 2nd highest incarceration rate for black prisoners in the nation

Wisconsin has them beat, though.

It's an American problem that Senator Sanders has suddenly discovered (see link below), and white states seem to lock up the black folks the quickest.

Not sure what the rest of your comments have to do with this OP, but I think maybe you should examine your own motives when you write angry commentaries about firewalls and desperation.

The topic of this discussion is incarceration rates in VT, the home state of a candidate.

You're welcome to pull up data and include it to bolster your argument and invite discussion.

And if you think "it has nothing to do with Senators," you need to keep up with what Senator Sanders has been saying about this topic. He seems to want to address this on a federal level--but it is a problem for the STATES, mostly. http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/09/17/bernie-sanders-seeks-to-ban-private-prisons/

Sen. Bernie Sanders said he hopes to end the “private, for-profit prison racket” with the introduction Thursday of bills to ban private prisons, reinstate the federal parole system and eliminate quotas for the number of immigrants held in detention.

The Vermont independent, who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination, introduced the “Justice is not for Sale Act” with Democratic Reps. Raúl Grijalva of Arizona, Keith Ellison of Minnesota and Bobby Rush of Illinois. It would bar the federal government from contracting with private incarceration companies starting two years after passage.

It just seems odd that he's been on the Hill for 25 years and hasn't addressed this issue in his OWN state at all...just seems terribly odd, especially since VT has had that real problem with being "first in the nation" when it comes to incarcerating their tiny black population....

[amborin]

10. but much, much less than the national rate:

Approximately 12–13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 60% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison (U.S. Department of Justice, 2009)

[MADem]

19. You don't understand-VT is 2nd worst in the nation when it comes to jailing their black citizens. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Well, at least we know why it's so homogenous, don't we?

[MADem]

64. Really--doesn't take too many arrests in a population that small to move the demographic needle. nt

[MADem]

63. Yes, indeed.

He knows an opportunity when he sees one.

[merrily]

20. +1 Ugly, baseless smear attempts do indeed seem desperate.

[George II]

170. But it does have something to do with Senators and Representatives, particularly those...

...who voted for the 1990s crime bill.

And the incarceration rates for blacks in New York, Arkansas, and Illinois are lower than in Vermont. In fact in both Arkansas and Illinois the rates are less than half that in Vermont.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/map/map.cfm#map

PS - Clinton lives in New York, Sanders was born in New York.

[fun n serious]

3. Interesting stats from above link

"But shortly before its peak, the Sentencing Project reported that Vermont had the second-highest black-to-white incarceration rate in America — topped only by Iowa, another state with a small black population."

[riversedge]

9. Shame that Sanders did not work on his own small state--he might have made a difference.

[beam me up scottie]

11. What should he have done as a US Senator?

Could Hillary have changed the policies of NYC cops?

[Art_from_Ark]

28. How difficult it must be for some pleople to understand that US Senators

are involved with national/federal legislation and have no authority to vote on laws or introduce legislation in state legislatures.

[beam me up scottie]

30. They used to teach that in civics class.

Maybe they stopped?

[riversedge]

91. I understand very well. Are you saying Sanders had no influence what so ever??

I will disagree upfront.

[Art_from_Ark]

133. Have you ever studied basic civics?

Once again, Sanders has no authority is his own state's government. He is a US Senator-- he represents his state in the US Senate. His work involves laws and bills at the national level. He cannot introduce or vote on any legislation in the Vermont state legislature

[hack89]

147. Either Bernie is an influential, transformational figure in American history or he is not

are you telling me that a US Senator from a small state does not have the power of moral persuasion to influence his state politicians? To rally the public to put pressure on their state officials? Are you saying that if Bernie had made this a priority he would have accomplished nothing?

[JonLeibowitz]

5. "proportionally, there are nearly 10 times more black people locked up in Vermont's jails..."

This is a really bad analogy. It makes no sense. I know what you are trying to say, but this is a mathematically meaningless statement.

[tarheelsunc]

134. Not meaningless at all.

If you go to a prison in Vermont, you're ten times more likely to see black people there than if you were out in public somewhere.

[beam me up scottie]

6. And if Bernie was governor or a state legislator he could do something about it.

You do understand that he's a US Senator, right?

Was Hillary responsible for the policies of NYC cops when she was a senator?

[MADem]

13. You do understand he's made this a campaign issue re: federal prisons?

Seems like he could have weighed in over the last two decades with his state delegation.

You know, bully pulpit, and all? http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/09/17/bernie-sanders-seeks-to-ban-private-prisons/


Just seems odd that he's suddenly discovered the issue.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Um he's been against for profit private prisons for decades, where have you been?

And do explain how he could have changed Vermont law, or even better email Bernie so he can get right on that.

[MADem]

24. Where's that old Bully Pulpit you folks claim he would use better than anyone else

Show me legislation that he's introduced previous to this recent effort that demonstrates an interest in the topic.

And sorry, charity begins at home. He could have brought the influence of the three members of the VT delegation to bear on the Governor to affect this matter. Elizabeth Warren "talks to" the governor(s) of MA and even the Mayor of Boston all the time about constituent issues.

[JonLeibowitz]

26. You cannot introduce legislation in your state if you are a federal legislator.

As for the bully pulpit, see post #18.

[beam me up scottie]

29. Strawman, where did I say any of that? How do you know he didn't talk to the governor? Link?

And as usual proving that Bernie Sanders was on the right side of this issue for DECADES is NOT GOOD ENOUGH BERNIE!!1!

[merrily]

22. Why do we even bother, BMUS? We know both law and facts are irrelevant on threads like this.

Hope you're doing well, though.

[beam me up scottie]

25. All we can do is drop off the facts and bow out.

Really all I'm doing now is countering the smears, it's not like anyone's going to turn on Bernie because of them.

I'm well, and you?

[merrily]

38. Glad you're well. I am too, though a little tired right now (Eastern time zone here).

And somewhat disheartened by the relentless bullshit. I wonder where all the intelligent posters who were here when I signed up went? Very few seem to be left, present company excepted.

Anyway, I think I'll switch off the computer soon. Have a beautiful rest of the night.

[beam me up scottie]

40. Same to you, it's futile to try to counter it all. We do what we can. :)

[Armstead]

120. Maybe its my imagination butvsome of this "outrage" seems ginned up

Like i winder how many of these concerned citizens were obsessing over the incarceration rate in Vermont a coupke of years ago

Thst's not to excuse it, but it is not so massively put of line withbthecrest of the country.

And when you have small populations, stastics can changed and be skewed much more easily.

I

[beam me up scottie]

121. Of course it is, you don't ever see them obsessing over the incarceration rate in THEIR states.

They're just looking for something to smear Bernie with since his decades of opposition to the criminal justice system is beyond reproach.

[merrily]

140. I miss the many smart DUers who used to post.

It's very telling, I think, that some of them preferred to switch to The Discussionist.

[DrDan]

137. exactly - like he did during his 25 years in congress -

how many bills did he successfully introduce again?

[hack89]

148. So he could not have rallied the public to the cause? I thought he was a leader.

he could not have publicly made clear that he was appalled at the situation? Why was he silent on the matter?

[amborin]

8. WAY LESS than the national average:

Ten years ago, there were 48 black people in Vermont prisons, about four percent of the prison population.

Today that number has grown to 210 and represents almost ten percent of all inmates.

http://www.wcax.com/story/6828591/vermonts-black-prison-population-doubles

whereas:

Approximately 12–13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 60% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison (U.S. Department of Justice, 2009)

African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users.... 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

[MADem]

14. Your link is from 2007!!! They are now Number TWO in the nation, behind Wisconsin. nt

[amborin]

27. Black = 37.4% of US prison population 2014

http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/inc_Trends_in_Corrections_Fact_sheet.pdf

[MADem]

153. You don't seem to understand that the comparison here is not about prison population ethnicities.

We're talking about the total number of Vermont citizens who are black, and how many of those citizens are locked up in jails, to include For Profit Private Jails out of state.

If you are black in VT, you have a better chance of being arrested and sent to jail than you do if you lived in Ferguson, MO.

[merrily]

15. Irrelevant. A US Senator doesn't run a state. Dean had more to do with these statistics than Sanders

The OP is more spaghetti being thrown at the wall in the desperate hope some strand or other will finally stick.

[MADem]

39. DEAN? He hasn't been governor for years. That's recent data.

That's his partner Shumlin, the guy who was going to do the universal health care test bed that was supposed to serve as the Proof Of Concept launching pad for Sanders' universal health care scheme.

And here's a bit more on his recently renewed interest in the prison issue:

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/28/bernie_sanderss_criminal_justice_blindspot_why_his_bill_to_ban_private_prisons_doesnt_go_nearly_far_enough/

And though progressives cheered Sanders and the legislation, research by the Prison Policy Initiative—a think-tank focused on criminal justice reform—shows that the bill’s effects would be limited if implemented. The number of people incarcerated in private prisons is only a fraction of those in public prisons. According to data from the Prison Policy Initiative, of the 1,561,525 inmates in state and federal prisons in 2014, only 131,261 were in privately run facilities.

With more than 90 percent of prisoners in publicly run prisons, why do corporate facilities garner so much attention?

When asked, Peter Wagner, the executive director of the Prison Policy Initiative, said that it’s easier to focus on privately run prisons because it makes any solution more clearly cut and convenient to fix. He’s concerned though that the issue may be garnering too much attention from advocates of prison reform.

“It distracts attention from the rest of the system and the vast majority who go through publicly operated prisons.”

Entire article is interesting for those interested in this topic.

[fun n serious]

23. Vermont is 2nd worst in the nation. nt

[amborin]

34. it is much less than the national rate which is 37% of prison population is black, Vermont is 10%

[Number23]

104. The point is, Vermont's population is way less than the national average too

[jfern]

36. Well, Bernie called for legalizing pot

That would fix that problem.

If the black prison population is rapidly increasing in Vermont, could some of them be outsourced from neighboring states such as New York? A few hundred black prisoners would be a tiny fraction of the black population in NY, but a huge fraction of the black population in Vermont.

[merrily]

12. A US Senator is not responsible for either Clinton's prison policies or state law or state law

enforcement.

[MADem]

17. Why has he suddenly made it a campaign issue, then? nt

[beam me up scottie]

21. He's been against the prison industry for decades.

[MADem]

31. He hasn't been at all effective to this point, has he?

You'd think he would have talked to his buddy Shumlin when they were discussing using VT as a Universal Health Care test bed (that plan that Shumlin abandoned as woefully unaffordable, and an economy-killer)--you know, spared a moment for his constituents suffering under this "Ship 'em out to private prison" policy who were languishing in private jails in KY and now MI.

[beam me up scottie]

33. How do you know he didn't talk to Shumlin? Do you have proof of that claim?

And again, civics class: he can't be "effective" since US senators can't introduce state legislation.

[MADem]

42. Surely if he did, he'd mention it, wouldn't you think?

Every time he talked to him about health care, he brought it up.

He can flail about complaining about the tiny percentage of federal prisoners in private prisons, but he ignores his OWN constituents languishing in Michigan, with families facing tough financial decisions to see their loved ones.

And as I've said elsewhere, Elizabeth Warren manages to weigh in re: issues of interest to her constituents. She'll talk to a governor, a mayor, a legislator--she doesn't hesitate.

[beam me up scottie]

44. So you don't have any proof and are making it up? Thanks!

He can flail about complaining about the tiny percentage of federal prisoners in private prisons, but he ignores his OWN constituents languishing in Michigan, with families facing tough financial decisions to see their loved ones.

Link to proof of that claim or is this more of your flailing around and fabrications?

[MADem]

47. You GAVE me proof, thanks so much! He's been entirely ineffective on this issue, as your video

demonstrates. He flails for media effect--he's done nothing to advance any effort to get his OWN constituents out of those private hellholes.

Read the articles provided in this thread--start at the top. Very illuminating.

[beam me up scottie]

49. You said he was ineffective in Vermont, explain how he's supposed to change Vermont law?

You do realize that he's not the governor, right?

And where is your proof that he didn't talk to the governor and ignored his constituents?

[fun n serious]

61. Here

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/vermont-s-black-leaders-we-were-invisible-to-bernie-sanders.html

[beam me up scottie]

66. Red herring, where do they discuss private prisons?

[MADem]

62. By representing his constituents and taking the matter up with the governor--the way

most legislators do.

I've said this more than once. No need for you to keep asking the question.

Shumlin doesn't agree with him, as it turns out--he LIKES those private prisons.


http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/16/shumlin-defends-private-prison-contracts/75893826/

Shumlin argued that private prison contracts save money and said it’s “naïve” to suggest Vermont should stop shipping inmates to Michigan.

The governor’s statements drew a contrast with Chittenden County State’s Attorney T.J. Donovan, who recently called for an end to private prisons as he launched his Democratic campaign for attorney general.

“No more private prisons; end the contracts,” Donovan yelled over a roar of applause at an Oct. 15 campaign event. “Bring the Vermonters home. This is a moral test of our generation in this state.”

Vermont Sen. and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders also has drawn attention to the issue by introducing legislation that would ban private prisons.

I understand his little bill has no co-sponsors.

[beam me up scottie]

65. So his speaking out against it for decades and legislation he sponsored to end it = ignoring it?

Explain how that works, first you said it wasn't good enough now you're saying it's proof he ignores his constituents?

How does something equal nothing?

[MADem]

67. He gins up legislation to end FEDERAL private prisons, when he's ignored the issue

at the state level for at least two decades.

Very interesting. He knows an opportunity when he sees one.

[beam me up scottie]

70. You never proved he ignored it or explained how he was supposed to enact state legislation.

Still waiting for you to address those claims.

[MADem]

82. If he hadn't ignored it, he would have spoken out about it. These ARE his constituents.

Unless you're suggesting he doesn't care about his constituents--and I doubt you want to go there.

[beam me up scottie]

85. Did you prove he didn't? I must have missed that. Link?

[MADem]

89. I think you need to do a little link reading, and less hyperposting. nt

[beam me up scottie]

92. You never linked to anything to prove your claim, I'm still waiting.

[MADem]

99. You've been given links--read them. nt

[beam me up scottie]

102. No I haven't, produce some.

Your claim was that he ignores the issue and should have done something about it.

Link to your proof that he ignored it and explain how he could enact legislation at the state level.

[MADem]

109. Go back to the OP, start from the top, and work your way down.

You've been hyperposting, you haven't had time to read any of these pieces.

[beam me up scottie]

112. I read the entire thread, you failed to prove your claims.

Since you're resorting to using circular logic we're done here.

[fun n serious]

69. His constituents said they were ignored. Read the link nt

[beam me up scottie]

73. Did they discuss the issue at hand? I read the article twice and didn't see that.

Perhaps you can point out where they faulted him for incarceration rates and the prison industry?

[beam me up scottie]

81. All of them? "Bernie Sanders get support of Black Lives Matter activists in Vermont"

Bernie Sanders get support of Black Lives Matter activists in Vermont

Posted: Feb 12, 2016 2:21 PM CST
By The Associated Press

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is receiving the support of the Black Lives Matter movement in his home state.

Dozens of activists gathered at the Vermont Statehouse Friday to call for a racial justice agenda in the state, including more hiring of African-American teachers and school administrators and more accountability for state agency hiring practices.

The event came a day after congressman and long-time civil rights leader John Lewis endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, and said he doesn't recall meeting Sanders during key events of the 1960s civil rights era.

Participants including Rajnii Eddins expressed deep respect for Lewis, but said they're less concerned about what people were doing in the 1960s than what they are doing and saying now.

Some credited Sanders with representing Vermont's open style of government.

http://www.wrex.com/story/31210380/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-get-support-of-black-lives-matter-activists-in-vermont

[MADem]

86. Well, they aren't incarcerated in Michigan, are they?

And they have nothing to do with this topic...except for the "black people" component.

VT has a lot of black citizens in a Michigan private prison, and BLM activists are generally -- though not always--black.

That's the nexus between this thread and your post.

smh.

[beam me up scottie]

90. That red herring was introduced by your associate so I countered it with facts.

His constituents said they were ignored. Read the link nt

The few who spoke out in their linked article don't represent all of his constituents, do they?

VT has a lot of black citizens in a Michigan private prison, and BLM activists are generally -- though not always--black.

Are these activists all white?

[MADem]

95. What's this "associate" snark? Getting a bit testy?

No need to lose your temper now--this is just a conversation.

[beam me up scottie]

97. You seem confused, where do you see "testy" or someone losing their temper?

I addressed your post politely, if you think that's losing my temper maybe you need a break?

"associate" = fellow Hillary supporter who jumped into the conversation

Where's the snark?

[MADem]

98. Your suggestion that I have an "associate" on this thread is a not-so-veiled insinuation of

collusion. I am a DUer and my fellow DUers and I--some of us, anyway--like to discuss issues of interest to us.

Now you're playing the belittling card and calling me "confused." I'm not that, either. Suggesting I "need a break." Mmm hmm! Temper, temper, now!

Perhaps you might want to take your OWN advice, eh?

[beam me up scottie]

101. You seem to be reading an awful lot into my posts, so yes you must be confused.

Since there's no indication I lost my temper I can't think of another explanation.

By "associate" I was referring to your fellow Hillary supporter who jumped in the middle of this sub thread. It's a common term used here but if it's offensive to you I won't use it anymore.

Honestly I'm not even mildly perturbed but if this is too much for you right now you can always stop responding.

[MADem]

111. Ah, doubling down with the personal insults, are you?

Here's that "confused" charge again.

[beam me up scottie]

114. If you think I'm being insulting and losing my temper there's no other plausible explanation.

And it's not an insult to suggest that you might be confused since I haven't lost my temper.

If you see a post with an insult or personal attack you should alert on it, simply using the term "associate" and wondering why you think I'm losing my temper doesn't quite rise to that level imo.

[MADem]

154. Well, that's exactly what I think. And it's your conduct that gives me that impression.

If you're that unhappy that you have to snark and be rude to people, that's your personal issue. I can't help but notice that you do it a lot.

[beam me up scottie]

155. And that's exactly why I think you're confused since I never insulted you.

If you're that unhappy that you have to snark and be rude to people, that's your personal issue. .

Pot day HELLO to kettle! Irony meters all over the world just exploded. Have you read your own posts?

"I can't help but notice that you do it a lot"

Meta much?

[MADem]

157. You do like to double down, don't you?

As for "meta" you might want to re-check the rules on that.

Meta within the confines of a thread is a go. It's only as a thread starter that it becomes iffy--if it's "disruptive" that is.

You go out of your way to direct personal insults at individuals who post here. I don't. I talk about candidates and issues, not DUers. You talk about DUers--like you're doing about me and others, in this thread.

[beam me up scottie]

159. "You go out of your way to direct personal insults at individuals who post here."

There's that irony again, your posting history speaks for itself. More insults and meta from you and still no proof of how I insulted you.

What a shock.

Maybe you should stick to the issues and stop with the personal attacks. Just a friendly suggestion.

[MADem]

160. You've called me "confused" multiple times in this threadd--and you still pretend there's no proof?

By your words we know you, bmus.

[beam me up scottie]

161. I said you must be confused because you keep saying I insulted you when I clearly didn't.

You also said I lost my temper when I didn't, what's up with that?

Perhaps you have another explanation but honestly I've re-read my posts and still don't see what you do.

Like I said, maybe you should just stick to the issues, this endless meta is kind of tedious and just further derails the thread.

[MADem]

162. If you would stick to the issues, and not make it about me--or anyone else--that would improve the

situation, certainly.

[beam me up scottie]

163. You're the one who started the meta by saying I was "testy" and lost my temper, remember?

MADem

95. What's this "associate" snark? Getting a bit testy?

No need to lose your temper now--this is just a conversation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1333505

I addressed your accusation, nothing more.

Again you should have discussed the issues instead of making this all about me. When you can't prove your claim it's time to move on, personal attacks and meta don't solve anything.

[MADem]

165. And you seem to forget your use of the loaded "associate" word.

But why am I not surprised? IOKIYBMUS, or something?

[beam me up scottie]

166. 'Associate' is a loaded term now? I already explained what I meant several times.

It's a commonly used term to describe fellow supporters and taking offense to it repeatedly even after I clarified is silly.

If you're going to continue with these accusations and personal attacks I'm going to have to end this meta subthread.

You can have the last word, I'll let the course of events speak for themselves.

You have a super nice day, 'kay?

[MADem]

167. When you create the association and it does not exist, yes, absolutely.

It's an organized crime code word, too, particularly when used in the context that you did, and it suggests criminality and collusion.

It is not a common word here on this board at all. Most of us refer to other members of DU as "DUers."

And it's not "silly" (another denigrating, personal, minimizing expression and yet another example of your passive approach to goading, baiting and snarking) to point it out.

[beam me up scottie]

168. Okay one more post: "organized crime code word" which "suggests criminality and collusion"?

Okay, now I'm done, thanks for the laugh, I really needed it after all this bizarre meta. I've explained repeatedly what I meant but if you're so intent on finding offense where none was meant have at it, I won't try to stop you. Enjoy!

Bye now!

(I was going to say "ciao" but I was afraid you might take that the wrong way too)

[MADem]

169. And there it is again! The denigration, and rejection of the obvious.

Apparently everyone--even WIKIPEDIA--knows this, but it's "bizarre" and news to you.

Mmmkay.

[fun n serious]

48. No he hasn't. Local black leaders say he ignored them.

“I think Bernie tends to run away from racial and ethnic issues,” Carney concluded.

Other black activists in Vermont echoed Carney’s conclusion that Sanders was more comfortable eschewing matters of race in favor of a more general focus on economics — a habit he was heavily criticized for early in his presidential campaign by the likes of Black Lives Matter. Sanders has since beefed up his racial and social justice platform, picking up crucial African-American endorsements and hiring black activists to join his campaign, but some black leaders in Vermont argue that Sanders has had more than enough time to warm himself to black voters before this presidential election.


Curtiss Reed Jr. executive director of the Vermont Partnership for Fairness and Diversity, recounted a 2006 candidate forum for the open U.S. senate seat Sanders eventually won. To Reed’s surprise, Sanders “was just really dismissive of anything that had to do with race and racism, saying that they didn’t have anything to do with the issues of income inequality.”

“He just always kept coming back to income inequality as a response, as if talking about income inequality would somehow make issues of racism go away.” Reed complained that Sanders seemed to handle black activists in Vermont with “benign neglect.”

[amborin]

32. while Hillary still gets $$$$$ from private prison lobbyists:

Clinton campaign continues to benefit handsomely from the fundraising assistance of some closely connected to the private prison business. In another report filed Sunday night, the campaign disclosed that Richard Sullivan of Capitol Counsel—until recently, a Raleigh, N.C.-based federally registered lobbyist for the for-profit prison operator GEO Group—bundled $69,363 in donations for Clinton in the fourth quarter, bringing his total for the year to a whopping $274,891.

That makes Sullivan the second-most prolific lobbyist-bundler for the Clinton campaign, beaten out only by D.C. lobbyist Heather Podesta, who's tallied up $348,581 so far.

Sullivan's firm, Capitol Counsel, has been registered for years to represent GEO Group subsidiary BI Inc.—which focuses on electronic monitoring of inmates. While the firm continues to represent BI, Sullivan no longer intends to do so, according to a disclosure form filed with Congress on Nov. 9.

The figures and the policy rejecting donations from prison lobbyists includes only direct donations to Clinton's campaign, not supportive super PACs or state and federal Democratic committees.

Prison lobbyist donations to Clinton and other candidates were highlighted last year in reports by the Intercept and Vice News.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/02/clinton-campaign-gives-private-prison-lobbyist-cash-to-charity-218524#ixzz419rqorfa

[beam me up scottie]

37. Until she was called on it then she made a big show of claiming she won't anymore.

Meanwhile Bernie never took a dime from them.

[MADem]

43. And Sanders ignores his OWN constituents, now locked up in a private prison in Michigan. nt

[beam me up scottie]

46. Proof that he's ignoring them while trying to get rid of private prisons?

[MADem]

150. They're still there, aren't they? First KY, now MI--for twenty long years.

Res ipsa loquitur, you see.

[beam me up scottie]

158. And you still haven't said what you think Bernie should do to solve the problem as a US senator.

Perhaps you don't understand that he can't change Vermont legislation?

[fun n serious]

71. There are many posts about Hillary, this one is about Sanders. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

41. That person claims to support ANY Democratic candidate

because the Republicans are just so terrible, but yet posts ridiculous shit like this to try to smear the better Democratic candidate.

[fun n serious]

51. Truth is not smear.

I support Hillary but will vote for Bernie should he be the nominee. There are countless negative Hillary threads. I just think we should level the playing field.

[Art_from_Ark]

56. You are smearing because Bernie has NO control over state matters

He is a US Senator, and as such he usually has one vote out of 100 on matters pertaining to national/federal laws. But he has NO vote on matters that pertain to state laws in Vermont.

[beam me up scottie]

57. ^^^THIS^^^

[fun n serious]

74. MaDem answered that several times for you here.... nt

[Art_from_Ark]

77. No, s/he hasn't

You can't understand basic civics-- US Senators have absolutely no authority over STATE laws in their respective states. They represent their states at the FEDERAL level.

[merrily]

139. Seems transparent. Did we blame (or credit) Obama for Illiniois or Chicago?

Does anyone blame (or credit) Hillary for New York?

Just smile, wave and nod.

[arcane1]

45. When does your timeout end?

I can't wait.

[fun n serious]

50. What time out? nt

[JDPriestly]

72. Bernie is not a state legislator or governor in Vermont. He has no say in what goes on in Vermont.

He is a Senator in the federal government.

How irrelevant can a post get?

[fun n serious]

76. For Vermont

He can't be involved in his community and bring up problems to the governor?

[JDPriestly]

100. He was an Independent until he ran for president.

You should address this issue to those who run the Democratic Party in Vermont.

They should change the facts you describe.

Bernie has said that he would make each case of a death in police custody into a federal issue and support legislation to that effect.

That is exactly what I think needs to be done. And Bernie wants to reform the prison system in ways that will benefit the African-American community and help to empty prisons. I support Bernie in these efforts.

He is involved in his community and was mayor of Burlington in the 1980s, but prison policies are not his responsibility. They are the responsibility of the state and local police officers and government.

Not much Bernie can do about this. He has enough to do as a senator in Congress dealing with federal issues.

To ask him to "fix" a serious problem that is not within his jurisdiction as a senator is very unfair and suggests a lack of understanding about how our justice system and state legislatures work.

[Marr]

80. Did you catch that video of your candidate being so dismissive and condescending to a BLM protestor?

The woman only wanted HRC to explain her very offensive quote about 'bringing them to heel' (and we all know who 'they' are) while pushing the '94 violent crime bill.

[fun n serious]

87. The one Bernie signed? nt

[Marr]

94. It was pretty awful. They shouted her down and Hillary had her removed.

I guess she thought the woman had forgotten her place-- said she doesn't even consider mass incarceration to be an issue, and just went back to addressing her well-to-do white fans with a smile.

[Marr]

103. Apparently the protestor wanted to Hillary to explain her remarks about young black men

needing to be 'brought to heel'.

I mean, I know she wanted to appear 'tough on crime' at the time, and didn't think she'd ever need the black vote. Probably thought that line would earn a little support from white racists, too. But still... seems like a pretty unwise and... well... vile thing to say. I would like to have heard her explanation as well. Too bad she had the protester dragged away.

Oh well, I guess she wanted to talk about the issues that she and her well-to-do white audience actually consider important.

[gcomeau]

83. Oh good grief.

Are you suggesting Sanders (who is not a STATE Senator and does not make STATE law) has anything to do with these numbers?

[fun n serious]

110. What significant laws did he write a Senator? nt

[gcomeau]

116. For VERMONT?

The same as any other Senator in the US Senate as opposed to the Vermont State Senate.

[beam me up scottie]

117. LOL! How absurd is this thread?

[Live and Learn]

108. That is true everywhere, thanks to Clintonian policies! nt

[Jitter65]

135. Well just put out another sliced and diced video and try to destroy the BS campaign as was done with

Hillary. That ought to make a lot of blacks stay home in November.

We are pitting our own base against each other by showing and gloating over how bad we can show the opponent is for segments of our own base. The GOP is loving this.

Why can't we just stick to discussions that don't personally vilify our candidates. The GOP doesn't even have to spend much money making ads against us, all their material can be found here and other boards that are used to trash the opposing candidate.

[Firebrand Gary]

136. So telling.

[pdsimdars]

138. The Clinton "tough on crimes" bills strike again

I think it's like that everywhere, proportionally more AAs locked up because Bill wanted to prove he was tough on crime.
I wouldn't suppose a Senator is responsible for everything that happens in his state.
Let's make him president so he can turn around all those horrible mistakes Clinton wrought on the country.

[BernieforPres2016]

141. What a brilliant OP

You mean a U.S. Senator hasn't been able to establish a different criminal justice system in his own state?

Do you have any statistics on what percentage of bankster crooks in the U.S. are from Hillary's home state of NY and how many have contributed to her campaign and/or paid her obscene sums for "speeches"?

[LexVegas]

142. What has he done about this? Let me guess...nothing. nt

[PotatoChip]

144. What do you suggest he do? (nt)

[PotatoChip]

143. This is what I get when I go to the links in the article.

Our apologies...
The item you requested does not exist on this server or cannot be served.

Below we have listed some items that might correspond to what you are looking for.

If you know you have the correct web address but are encountering an error, please send a mail to the administrator of this site.

[e-mail]
Thank you.

404 Not Found

I'm not suggesting that the stats are incorrect (even though they could be), but I'd really like to see the data for myself.

Not that it matters much anyway... As other people in this thread have already pointed out, Bernie has no control over state matters. I would think that most everyone who reads the article would already know that.

[Gothmog]

145. Great post

[think]

151. Conflate much?

[mikehiggins]

152. Can anyone tell me why anyone responds to this repeated post?

It shows up on my screen perhaps a dozen times and is, IMHO, a classic troll. The OP attacks Sanders for not reforming racist law enforcement in Vermont, something he has as much influence on as any other citizen, i.e. not much. A more sensible target might be the officials in the state government who have enabled this situation to arise and continue. I would also point out that most of the Democratic Party elected officials support HRC.

So why keep this going? There is absolutely no reason to suspect that any answer to this OP will satisfy the person who keeps it going. Why participate?

As a matter of fact, other than posting good news and serious issues (the latest Brock lies, Tweeties tingling legs, the Hillary supporters tossing BLM under the bus for daring to treat the Chosen One the same way Sanders was treated, etc.) I cannot understand why anyone responds to a post that clearly exists only to incense Sanders' supporters.

Why enable these folks?

[Vinca]

156. Are you aware that Interstate 91 that runs the length of Vermont is called

the "heroin" highway? It's a regular route from the cities to the south up into rural areas where the heroin crisis results in death on a daily basis. Not a day goes by that you don't read about a car from Connecticut or New York or Massachusetts being stopped by a trooper and hundreds of bags of heroin confiscated. I would suspect, given the small number of people of color who live in the state, that much of the 10.7% attributed to black inmates are people from somewhere other than Vermont and not Vermont residents.

[yardwork]

164. You mean Vermont is only a paradise for the privileged?!