Sanders would lose to Trump because he projects weakness

[Renew Deal]

And Trump is particularly adept at exploiting that. Just look at what he's done to the weaklings like Cruz and Rubio in the Republican Party.

[Human101948]

1. And he will make Hillary look like Jeb Bush...

Only there's more material to work with in her case.

For instance, "She's the biggest liar!" will compound the huuuuge negatives that she has.

[brooklynite]

2. Clinton wouldn't be a reluctant wimp like Jeb! was.

[PoliticAverse]

4. Right, Hillary would have no trouble running to the right of Trump hawk-wise. n/t

[JackInGreen]

9. No, she'd take the bait and respond in kind, negatively

The old double standard will kick in, he's a 'truth teller' and she's 'shrill'. I'm willing to put money on the one the potatoes and whales in our country will side with, mores the pity.

[Renew Deal]

8. It's possible you're right

But as Bill said many years ago, strong and wrong is better than weak and right.

[kstewart33]

73. No one can make Clinton look like Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Clinton, but she is one tough old bird.

The Benghazi committee tried for 11 hours.....

[virtualobserver]

3. ridiculous

[Kentonio]

5. You clearly need to see more Bernie.

[TheUndecider]

17. Never seen that one before

Everyone should see that! Excellent thank you Kentonio and Bernie

Edit: somewhat of an technological Luddite and can't figure out how to post that on my FB page. Any help? Buehler, Buehler...

[Kentonio]

38. If you right click on the video and select 'Copy Video URL'

You should be able to just paste into a new Facebook post.

[Renew Deal]

22. Passion does not equal strength

[Kentonio]

39. Trump isn't strong, he's a bigot and a blowhard.

Exactly the people Bernie excels at dismantling. Don't judge him on how he responds to Clinton and progressive opponents, he's completely different when he's fighting against Republicans.

[Smarmie Doofus]

51. +1. "Weakness". Riiiiiiight. nt

[Betty Karlson]

6. And you base this on... your antipathy? Bias for Clinton? Nothing at all?

[Renew Deal]

24. Many years of observing Bernie

And his contrast with Trump

[Betty Karlson]

68. Right, because Sanders supporters haven't observed him for years...

Your argument, sir, projects weakness.

[canichelouis]

44. Here's what it is

[Betty Karlson]

69. Yes, those who claim Sanders isn't a real Democrat, are usually just asses.

Good toon, that is.

[TCJ70]

7. You haven't watched Bernie...

...go up against the Republicans, have you? He doesn't exactly hold back...

[Barack_America]

10. Try again. Watch this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-duke-cunningham-homophobia_us_56cb75eee4b041136f17dc9f

Weak? Absolutely not.

[GreatGazoo]

11. They take polls on such things

The polls disagree with your assertion.

[Renew Deal]

25. Post one of them

[GreatGazoo]

60. How about 5 major polls...

Here are 4 polls that say you're wrong (plus one that is less conclusive):

Polling Data
Poll Date Sample MoE
Sanders (D)

Trump (R)
Spread
RCP Average 2/2 - 2/17 -- -- 47.5 41.5 Sanders +6.0
FOX News 2/15 - 2/17 1031 RV 3.0 53 38 Sanders +15
Quinnipiac 2/10 - 2/15 1342 RV 2.7 48 42 Sanders +6
USA Today/Suffolk 2/11 - 2/15 1000 LV 3.0 43 44 Trump +1
PPP (D) 2/2 - 2/3 1236 RV 2.8 46 42 Sanders +4

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

After Nevada Sanders called out Trump -- "Bring Him On!"
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-on-trump-bring-him-on/

Here is how the Bernie effect works:

[Segami]

12. Excuse me.....

.......now thats funny.

Even if we add up all the crowds combined of every republican clown candidate in this race, it still won't come close to the massive level of Bernie's support.

You want to match up a bus full of squawking clowns next to a statesman like Bernie Sanders?.......If Bernie Sanders had to deal with Trump in this election, he definitely won't be restrained with the level of his attacks against Trump......Trump (after everything is said and done) is nothing more than loud noise emanating from within a suit to which Bernie would dispose of without much effort or fanfare......

[Renew Deal]

21. Massive level of support has given him a losing record so far.

And it's getting worse.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

30. Losing by 1 whole delegate.

[Renew Deal]

33. 1 win 2 losses

And it's going to get worse. 1-3 after Saturday. And something like 3-11 after next Tuesday.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

36. 1 huge blowout win, 1 virtual tie, and 1 loss

You do realize it's the delegates that matter, not the win/loss ratio. This isn't baseball.

[livetohike]

66. So far his massive crowds haven't transpired to votes. He is

weak on foreign policy issues. Doesn't even have his foreign policy ideas formulated yet. Super Tuesday is a bit late to start.

[TheUndecider]

13. Ignorance is Strength

Could be trumps campaign slogan

That won't wash against someone with an intellect like Bernie (I hope)

[pdsimdars]

14. as they say, you're trippin' man.

This is your dream. Trump would demolish Clinton, but would have a very hard time doing that to Bernie.

[BostonBob]

15. Shillary would lose to Trump because she projects dishonesty and corruption

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

45. I voted to hide this, and I'm sad to say, it stood 5-2.

I don't think much of Hillary, but I do think we shouldn't be using 'shillary'.

[Mother Of Four]

49. I would have voted to hide it as well

He didn't need to use that derogatory name. The message would have been exactly the same had he used "Hillary"

[PassingFair]

61. But Bernie "projecting weakness" is AOK?

[BostonBob]

63. It was a typo, meant to write $hillary, my bad.

[The Redheaded Guy]

16. Uh-huh

Have a nice day, dear.

[Vinca]

18. Wait and see what Trump will do to Hillary . . . and Bill. I cringe to think of it.

Unlike the normal politician who has run for office before, Trump doesn't give a shit about civility. He'll send the blue dress on a nationwide tour. Just as an opener.

[Renew Deal]

27. I'm not convinced you're wrong.

[togetherforever]

19. That's crazy

You have never seen senator Sanders get angry then.

[Renew Deal]

28. Anger does not equal strength

[togetherforever]

35. Is your point that you want to

see Senator Sanders get down in the gutter like Hillary has been doing in her actions?

Is that the kind of strength you are impressed by?

[Logical]

20. Lol, nice try, check the polling. And hillary trust numbers are terrible. Nt

[Renew Deal]

29. I don't discount the possibility

that we might be in trouble.

[Nonhlanhla]

23. Can we all please stop this "Trump will win" nonsense?

Very soon one of our candidates will emerge as nominee of the Democratic Party. Do we really need to go into the GE with the idea that our candidate will lose to an idiot like Trump?!

Geez, get a grip, folks.

[Tarc]

26. Either Sanders or Clinton would beat Trump like a drum

It it time to retire this "your candidate can't only mine can" bullshit.

[Jon Ace]

72. I agree and can't wait to see it happen, but...

I would be lying to myself if I said the FBI investigation doesn't at least worry me a tiny bit.

[w4rma]

31. People like you could give us President Trump. You are completely out of touch. (nt)

[Renew Deal]

34. Sanders voters should think about if their vote will give us Trump

[w4rma]

37. I'm sorry, but I'll support Hillary over the Nazi Trump. But, I have no arguments to help her

against anti-establishment voters. None. Nothing I say will flip them to vote Democratic if Hillary is at the top of the ticket. So, spare me your arrogant tone that *I* need to do something. *YOU* need to do something, right now.

And when Hillary moves to the neoconservative right for the general election, she will push even MORE people to Trump. You really don't have a clue do you?

I'm paying very close attention to the polls, and the polls are *very dangerous* for another Clinton at the top of the Democratic ticket. And she is so un-charismatic that she will continue to drop in the polls, no matter what she says or does, because they stopped listening to her a long time ago.

[merrily]

41. The only info we have are head to head polls and Sanders does better than Hillary in those.

[cascadiance]

48. Even globalization supporters have realized that Bernie would whip Trump where Hillary can't!

Just look at this article published in the last 24 hours of the globalization crowd afraid of how activism in both parties is working against their globalized world to benefit the wealthy few through big "free trade" agreements like TPP, or the f'd up guest worker programs like H-1B is what has a populist movement look at both Trump and Sanders and is putting a lot of pressure on other Republicans and Hillary to follow suit.

http://businessworld.in/article/Free-Trade-Under-Threat/25-02-2016-91418/

Free Trade Under Threat
The US presidential poll campaign has tuned ominous with candidates blaming globalisation for all the country’s ills

...

Such challenges to globalisation are not new, however. Over the past decade, opinion polls have consistently shown growing anxiety in the West about job losses due to global trade and migration. The expansion of trade, increasing outsourcing and supply chain production and the liberalisation of financial systems have resulted in a massive rise in corporate income, bringing prosperity to China and other emerging countries while causing growing despair among the Western middle classes. In Europe, these developments have spawned nationalist demands for barriers to both trade and immigration — both are seen as causes of rising joblessness. With hundreds of thousands of refugees arriving from war-torn Middle East and North Africa, many fear the loss of their national identity.

Similar concerns were clearly on a slow boil in the US until the demagogy of the Republican Party’s presidential candidates unleashed an ugly wave of public anger. Whether it’s real estate and reality TV mogul Donald Trump or the self-proclaimed “Democratic Socialist” Senator Bernie Sanders, both have succeeded in tapping into popular anger against the consequences of globalisation. Trump’s popularity has soared as a result of his racist diatribes against migrant workers from Mexico and immigrants from the Muslim world. But he has also echoed left-wing critiques in denouncing the trade pacts that have allowed countries like China to ‘steal’ American jobs and pro-Silicon Valley policies that have incentivised tech companies to replace American workers with cheap but skilled foreigners holding H-1B visas.

While multinational companies have seen their earnings soar thanks to a borderless world and technological innovation, the wages of average American workers have stagnated. The result has been a yawning income gap, with the poorest half of the country holding just 2.5 per cent of US wealth while 35 per cent is in the hands of the top 1 per cent. Trashing trade agreements, keeping jobs home and reducing income inequality is Sanders’ battle cry.

In the face of such populist pressure, his rival Hillary Clinton (who as Secretary of State helped negotiate the Trans-Pacific Partnership) is now distancing herself from the landmark trade accord. Although Clinton, as the inheritor of her husband’s trade deals like NAFTA and backing of WTO, would have reasons to moderate the populist pressure against globalization, she cannot ignore the tide that her democratic rival and even Republican contestants have been riding on. Against this backdrop, the likely Chinese moves to continue the renminbi’s devaluation will push up US trade deficit and further fan the flames of the anti-trade movement.

...

Even though the author expresses concern that the campaigns of Sanders and Trump work against their notion of globalized "free trade" being what is needed for the world, he acknowledges that this movement is big now, and is responsible to a great degree the populist success of both of their campaigns. Hillary's going to have far more difficulty in trying to appeal to populists the way Bernie can in this area. Predictably the supporters of corporatism and its globalist mantra are to some degree here, and elsewhere trying to equivalence Trump's appeal to the anti-immigration more xenophobic crowd on the Republican side with Bernie's populist concern for American workers losing their jobs to free trade and guest worker programs as if they are the same, when Bernie also tries to emphasize concern for foreign workers being abused here and in other countries with the bottoms being created elsewhere for the wealthy to race to, along with the more shared concern with Trump's populist campaign that American workers are losing their jobs in the process.

Note here that Disney employees that have suffered losing their jobs in a way that is subject to lawsuit and even testimony to congress in the last couple of days, have expressed concern that only Trump is standing up for them. Bernie's not getting heard on his support for American workers in this situation in the midst of corporate media trying to reflect Hillary's campaign quest for silence and not wanting to have to be accountable for any stance on abuse of guest worker programs like H-1B.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1356732

Sorry, but it is the HILLARY voters who should think about if their vote will give us Trump, not Sanders!

[ladjf]

32. Nonsense. nt

[merrily]

40. LOL! Sanders does not project weakness.

When Trump called out Bill Clinton, both Hillary and Bill shut up very quickly.


Sanders would not have.

[morningfog]

42. Another day another attack from revoke new deal.

[merrily]

54. Pulled straight out of his ear, too.

[Funtatlaguy]

43. Sanders Likes Hillary, Sanders Hates Trump

I think you may me mistaking Sanders weakness.
He has known and admired Hillary for a very long time.
He is never going to fully bash her.
He hates and has no respect for Trump.

[Peace Patriot]

46. It's a dumb OP, but just for the record...

...have you any clue at all as to what Bernie Sanders has taken on--the biggest political machine in the country (the Clintons, funded by Wall Street), the most dangerous billionaire to ever try to buy himself a presidency (Trump), and the transglobal oligarchy that rules over us?

At age 74, Sanders has taken on "the Empire"!

Weak? WEAK?!

You gotta be kidding me! The man is on fire, with "the Force" provided by We, the People!

In any case, what do you know of strength and weakness? Weakness is wanting money. Weakness is wanting power. The weakest ego is the bully. Sanders never gets mad under attack. Though he reacts honestly, you never see it get under his skin. He keeps the high ground, always. He is never petty and mean, and thus, a bully like Trump will never be able to get a handle on him. Sanders always turns hostility or idiocy off and proceeds right around the hostile one or the idiot, to his goal: discussion of the issues, revelation of the facts about our troubled democracy, and what he sees as necessary corrective policies. I've never seen him bested by attack. Never. That is strength.

Strength is not punching and bashing. True strength is maintaining your own integrity and poise, no matter what comes at you. Sanders has true strength. Trump has the brittle, mask-like strength of trickery and chicanery--the snake-oil salesman. You will never see Sanders goaded by him. But you will see Sanders subtly unmask him one moment--by Sanders merely being who he is, "The Quiet Man" (a man of hidden strength) on a mission--and directly challenge him at another, for instance on racism, but Sanders will never be personal or pompous. He may express righteous anger; it will be an unassailably honest statement, from which Trump can only gyrate away into clownishness or personal insults. Sanders, from what I have seen, simply CANNOT be insulted.

That is strength. And it will be very evident, indeed, on any debate stage, or in the larger arena of distant combat, which one of these two, Sanders or Trump, most Americans will trust to be president.

I can just see Sanders gazing at Trump with mild wonderment as Trump goes into one of his japing routines. Trump is not going to wear well in exchanges with Sanders about racism, or poverty, or torturing prisoners or nuclear weapons. Trump is going to look like the asshole he is.

Hillary up against Trump is another matter. She is knowledgeable and skillful in some ways, but I don't think she has anything close to Sanders' strength of character. She goes into her "I...I...I.." mode ("I did this...I did that...I did the other...&quot when she is under stress, and that repetition of "I, I, I" gets really enervating to listen to. Her voice goes up; she stiffens up; she sometimes looks daggers. I think Trump will take HER apart. She lacks a strong central core of being; she is grabby for acclaim, and when she doesn't get it, she gives it to herself, at increasingly high pitch. I think Trump's clown trickery is made to order for destroying her on stage. She may do better at a distance, because that is scriptable. Up close, all the reasons why Americans dislike her so much will emerge as Trump prods her and explores her many weaknesses.

[tk2kewl]

50. should be an OP

[tk2kewl]

47. and you project Brock

[Mike Nelson]

52. Personally...

...I think Bernie is the stronger. I also think Hillary would wipe up the floor with Trump. True, he will throw everything he can at either of them. What else can be said about Hillary? She only gets stronger.

[HERVEPA]

53. Wow! You're post is just full of it.

[Gothmog]

55. Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads

I agree with the opinion set forth in the OP and believe that nominating Sanders would insure a Trump victory. In addition to the attacks by the Kochs, Rove and the RNC, Sanders would also be facing a well financed third party run by M. Bloomberg.

I personally believe that the GOP, the Kochs, Rove and Bloomberg would destroy Sanders if he was the nominee. This article from VOX has some good predictions as to how nasty the GOP and the Kochs will be http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders

I'm not sure I have the requisite killer instinct to fully imagine how the GOP will play a Sanders campaign. But consider just this low-hanging fruit:

Sanders would be the oldest president ever to take office — older than John McCain, who faced serious questions about this in 2008.

Sanders is a socialist. "No, no," you explain, "it's democratic socialist, like in Denmark." I'm sure GOP attack ads will take that distinction into careful consideration.

Sanders explicitly wants to raise taxes, and not only on the rich.

That's just the obvious stuff. And he has barely been hit on any of it so far.

I have no real way of knowing whether Sanders and his advisers appreciate what's coming if he wins the nomination, or whether they have a serious plan to deal with it, something beyond hoping a political revolution will drown it out.

But at least based on my experience, the Bernie legions are not prepared. They seem convinced that the white working class would rally to the flag of democratic socialism. And they are in a state of perpetual umbrage that Sanders isn't receiving the respect he's due, that he's facing even mild attacks from Clinton's camp.

If they are aware that it's been patty-cakes so far, that much, much worse and more vicious attacks are inevitable, and that no one knows how Sanders might perform with a giant political machine working to define him as an unhinged leftist, they hide it well.

In the name of diverting some small percentage of the social media bile surely headed my way, let's be clear about a few things: This is not an argument against supporting Sanders. There's nothing dumber than making political decisions based on how the other side might react. (For one thing, that would have foreclosed supporting Obama, a black urbanite with a funny name, in 2008.)

But it is an argument that Sanders has gaping vulnerabilities that have not yet been exploited at all, so his followers should not yet feel sanguine about his ability to endure conservative attacks. Also they should get a thicker skin, quick.

The GOP will have a great deal of material to work with and the Kochs will be spending $887 million, the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars and Bloomberg (who will only run if Sanders is the nominee) will spend another billion dollars. These groups will have a great deal to work with

[phleshdef]

56. You sound like a Republican going on about dumb fuck "alpha male" shit.

[Jefferson23]

57. Trump will be merciless with Hillary and he will pummel her on trade deals, her husbands exploits

and her WS ties, Libya, Iraq...and that is just the beginning. It will be a tough race for her, and
that is not to say Bernie's challenge will be easy, but you're way off base about
Clinton having the advantage over Bernie.

It seems you do not have a sense of how low Hillary polls with Independents.

[mak3cats]

58. This post projects weakness - trash... (eom)

[yellowcanine]

59. Just stop it. Trump would lose to either Sanders or Clinton.

We need to stop eating our own and undermining the eventual nominee. Neither Sanders or Clinton is my first choice. I would go with Warren or Biden if I had the chance. But either Sanders or Clinton would do a good job as President and either one would be a heck of a lot better than any Republican or Trump (who is not anything).

[bullwinkle428]

62. If this is truly the case, we should just run someone like Anthony Weiner.

I'd prefer to see Alan Grayson - if it's going to be a "dick measuring" contest.

[LexVegas]

64. Very weak. nt

[closeupready]

65. Because a Clinton supporter says so? If not, just because you say so?

[Orsino]

67. Sanders has brains and a personality...

...against which, so far, Trump is untested.

[UglyGreed]

70. Real weak guy who calls himself

a Democratic Socialist and fought for other people's rights in the 60s what a wimp!!!!!!!

[Dr. Strange]

71. Good point.

Bernie's been around for 70-some years and still hasn't once declared bankruptcy? I can't vote for that kind of weakness!